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A watershed election. A Weimar election?
The Catholic World Report ^ | November 8, 2012 | James V. Schall, S.J.

Posted on 11/11/2012 11:12:37 AM PST by SumProVita

The state, with its main duties, the taking care of everyone, defines what is important from now on. One might say that our people coldly looked the Leviathan in its eyes. They did not flinch as he brought them into his body. These are dramatic observations, no doubt. We now wait to see what happens next. We have established who is in power. We will not pass this way again.

And in establishing who is to rule us, we reveal our own souls. The liberty to do whatever we want that Aristotle spoke of while describing democracies is now firmly rooted among us. No real opposition will be tolerated. Liberty means doing what state demands.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicworldreport.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: election; freedom; politics; state
"We have just witnessed a watershed election. The earliest years of the 21st century are rapidly seeing the logic of political and philosophical ideas that, in their origins, were deviations from the truth. We witness not merely a voluntary acceptance of these ideas in the political order through election, but also an abdication of serious reasoning about them in the public order."

Per usual, an excellent analysis from this professor of political philosophy.

1 posted on 11/11/2012 11:12:43 AM PST by SumProVita
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To: SumProVita

In all the election chaos, has anyone figured out yet what happened to the Catholic (and evangelical Christian) segment of the vote, compared to 2008? Obama ought to have suffered badly there, given the way he has punked the Catholics, a situation which does not make, say, Baptists any happier.


2 posted on 11/11/2012 11:18:47 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Regarding the Evangelicals...I am not exactly sure...though some have posited that it had to do with his Mormonism. As for Catholics, almost everyone should understand by now that, due to a variety of factors, approximately half of those who identify themselves as being Catholic, do NOT, in fact, embrace the Teachings of the Church.

In my humble opinion, I think it may have had more to do with the fact that the real issue of this election was FAR more than just the economy...and a clear case NEEDED to have been made about what is really at stake in this. THAT case wasn’t made....AND the liberal press, taking the lowest road, made a profound ad hominem case (which included lies and distortion) against Gov. Romney in the swing states.

Again, with regard to the Church, Father Phillip W. De Vous (Adjunct scholar of public policy at the Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty), had this to say:

“Last night’s election illustrates that Americans have become a people more dependent on the government. The country will continue to trend culturally and politically to the left. This means that conservative causes that take their impetus from the truths and moral rationality offered by the Judeo-Christian political and philosophical tradition will continue to be marginalized, the Church’s liberty restricted, and the cultural, moral, political, and spiritual leftism, hedonism, and materialism, with its attendant anomie and nihilism, will continue the long march through all of our cultural and governmental institutions. . . Given the Catholic Church’s failure to adequately address the cultural, political, and even existential threat posed to it by President Obama’s agenda, the credibility of the Church’s witness has been further eroded and enervated, making the Church less likely to be courageous and effective in speaking the hard truths necessary for personal, ecclesial, and national renewal. Because of this, the leftist cultural and moral agenda will continue to increasingly form and even invade our personal, familial, and communal lives. The effect on our national life and civil society will be devastating. Trends of cultural degradation, the normalization of what has until recently been widely understood as moral turpitude, along with debt, deficits, and fiscal ruin will likely be accelerated.”

My summary: The moral case for the America of the Founders is NOT being made. The probability for marginalization of Christians...and inevitably their persecution has just risen.


3 posted on 11/11/2012 11:47:17 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita

Romney would pull in 30,000 supporters for a speech. Obama couldn’t fill half a small stadium when he was ALSO offering a free concert. They didn’t win the election - unless what you call what a thief does as ‘winning’.


4 posted on 11/11/2012 11:48:27 AM PST by GOPJ (Petraeus confession: like something from a 'Soviet purge trial'....)
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To: GOPJ

This lukewarm reception could have been part of a Democrat feint, though. Acorn and Son Of Acorn never urged anybody to go to an Obama rally. Why put their puppets to any more trouble than needed to take the election itself?


5 posted on 11/11/2012 11:50:28 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: SumProVita

We will never ever have a free and fair election again


6 posted on 11/11/2012 11:51:03 AM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GOPJ

I have no doubt that fraud took place. However, the fact remains that most Americans still DO NOT GET what is really happening yet.

Our battle is great....and it is not merely political.
It IS a spiritual battle or the soul of this nation!


7 posted on 11/11/2012 11:53:10 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita

We don’t know if a revolution against the emerging hard tyranny would be much worse. All of the Eastern bloc and Soviet Union/ Russia improved after the hard line communist regimes were toppled. We also have our own revolution as an example of a positive outcome.
As far as the Weimar Republic was concerned, the socialist leader did institute a temporary military dictatorship when Germany was in the throes of hyperinflation.
That being said, it does appear that 50+% of people in this country do not understand liberty. We also see more polarization among individuals and now even regions. Secession and/or a civil war may be the best outcome. Damn if I’m going to live in a Leftist dictatorship.


8 posted on 11/11/2012 11:53:43 AM PST by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est; zero sera dans l'enfer bientot)
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To: SumProVita

I mean what happened numbers-wise, not an explanation for it. Our good pal Weird is telling me that the proportion of self identified Catholics voting for Obama went to 50% which would be to go up, not down, from 2008.

Perhaps Mitt got a bit of a late start. Obama was busy beating on Romney when he hadn’t even formally won the approval of the GOP convention. Had Romney answered right then and there, he would have then gotten lambasted for being presumptuous. (Of course Obama gets a free pass for having presumed that Romney would be it. That’s liberal morality for ya.)


9 posted on 11/11/2012 11:54:15 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: grumpygresh

It might have to come down to a cities-burning situation before people take it seriously.


10 posted on 11/11/2012 11:55:01 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: SumProVita

Meant to say: It IS a spiritual battle FOR the soul of this nation!


11 posted on 11/11/2012 11:55:05 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: grumpygresh

It might have to come down to a cities-burning situation before people take it seriously.


12 posted on 11/11/2012 11:56:54 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

“liberal morality”

_________________

Now THAT is what I call an oxymoron! LOL...


13 posted on 11/11/2012 11:57:15 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita

technically ‘souls’ — a country as such does not have a ‘soul’


14 posted on 11/11/2012 11:58:30 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: grumpygresh

it does appear that 50+% of people in this country do not understand liberty.

__________________________________

That, grumpy, is exactly correct. It is a BIG problem.

And why are we in this situation?

“Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.” ... Alexander Solzhenitsyn


15 posted on 11/11/2012 12:02:24 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

;-)

Yes...I almost used the word, “citizens,” but thought you’d understand what I meant.


16 posted on 11/11/2012 12:04:56 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita

17 posted on 11/11/2012 12:05:57 PM PST by timestax (Why not drug tests for the President AND all White Hut staff ? ? ?)
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To: timestax
And who can forget THIS ?


18 posted on 11/11/2012 12:10:50 PM PST by timestax (Why not drug tests for the President AND all White Hut staff ? ? ?)
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To: timestax

I always wondered...REVENGE for WHAT?

It was simply an appeal to the lowest common denominator. Sad.


19 posted on 11/11/2012 12:17:21 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita
In my humble opinion, I think it may have had more to do with the fact that the real issue of this election was FAR more than just the economy...and a clear case NEEDED to have been made about what is really at stake in this.

Exactly, but that opinion is not popular here. It was the SocCons fault.</sarcasm>

They don't like this either, and it is a Christian site, go figure.

>My summary: The moral case for the America of the Founders is NOT being made. The probability for marginalization of Christians...and inevitably their persecution has just risen.

20 posted on 11/11/2012 12:56:12 PM PST by itsahoot (Any enemy, that is allowed to have a King's X line, is undefeatable. (USS Taluga AO-62))
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To: SumProVita

I got that. SEIU had internet ads mention voting for Martin and Trevon.


21 posted on 11/11/2012 2:00:27 PM PST by sgtyork (The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage. Thucydidesm)
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To: HiTech RedNeck; GOPJ
This lukewarm reception could have been part of a Democrat feint, though. Acorn and Son Of Acorn never urged anybody to go to an Obama rally. Why put their puppets to any more trouble than needed to take the election itself?

Also, think of all the money saved on yard signs/buttons/T-shirts/bumper stickers produced and distributed. There was little to no visible sign of BO support via signage and merchandise -- either this was also part of the feint, and/or they knew the election results were a foregone conclusion via fraud, so why bother expending the money.

22 posted on 11/11/2012 2:09:01 PM PST by thecodont
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To: SumProVita

The battle for the soul of the Nation was lost before November 6, 2012. The results of November 6 only confirmed it.


23 posted on 11/11/2012 2:14:58 PM PST by sport
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To: thecodont
...they knew the election results were a foregone conclusion via fraud, so why bother expending the money.

Obama looked stunned he had to show up for the charade of the first debate... Then Candy helped him the second time... What ME? Moi?

Why bother with debates, crowds, posters, bumper stickers. His buds in the ghetto were stealing the election for him - what's to worry about? The same folks who didn't bother to go to a rally - even with a free concert - ALL show up to vote? 100% in some precincts? Lucky that dems have their big brother the MSM to rough up the unbelievers...

24 posted on 11/11/2012 5:53:49 PM PST by GOPJ (Petraeus confession: like something from a 'Soviet purge trial'....)
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To: GOPJ
Obama looked stunned he had to show up for the charade of the first debate... Then Candy helped him the second time... What ME? Moi?

Why bother with debates, crowds, posters, bumper stickers. His buds in the ghetto were stealing the election for him - what's to worry about? The same folks who didn't bother to go to a rally - even with a free concert - ALL show up to vote? 100% in some precincts? Lucky that dems have their big brother the MSM to rough up the unbelievers...

On another thread is a discussion about outcome-based granting of jobs to minorities regardless of merit.

That's what happened here. I believe Romney ran an honest presidential election: he had policy positions, he had rallies, he went to debates. This effort on his (and his campaign staff's and supporters') part assumed a response of effort on the voters' part: they would voluntarily show up at the polls and vote for him.

Not so with BO and his campaign. Why expend the effort if the outcome is guaranteed? This explains the baffling lack of crowds at rallies, the lack of bumper stickers and yard signs, the lackluster debate performance. He phoned it in. Some people here said "the fix is in." BO's campaign staff told him, "Don't worry, we know how many votes you need, we'll deliver them. And we'll make it look plausible, too."

Check out the tech culture Web sites and see if you find any discussion of electronic vote fraud or voting technology. The tech culture is generally very left and very mercenary. At its most conservative, it is libertarian in nature. It is always mercenary and for sale to the highest bidder. Someone gave me a link to the video about the programmer who wrote code to make electronic voting machines generate a guarantee outcome (2004 elections, in Ohio). How on earth do people believe that the leopard has changed his spots in eight years? These people are still around and are still for sale. If it can be done from a keyboard, coooool. They're all in.

25 posted on 11/11/2012 7:28:01 PM PST by thecodont
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To: thecodont
Why expend the effort if the outcome is guaranteed? This explains the baffling lack of crowds at rallies, the lack of bumper stickers and yard signs, the lackluster debate performance. He phoned it in. Some people here said "the fix is in." BO's campaign staff told him, "Don't worry, we know how many votes you need, we'll deliver them. And we'll make it look plausible, too."

You're right on this codont - we all live in Detroit now. And we'd better start acting like it. Republicans are fighting by Queensbury Rules, while dems are fighting by Chicago gang banger rules - 10 thugs kicking an unarmed person in the groin. Our side needs to grow up and and get real.

26 posted on 11/11/2012 8:48:11 PM PST by GOPJ (Petraeus confession: like something from a 'Soviet purge trial'....)
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To: thecodont

It’s really odd to me that Obama was not re-lionized a la Che Guevara. How many folks do you meet sporting Big Ears’ visage on their chemises?


27 posted on 11/12/2012 11:22:20 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: SumProVita

Why the Rats always think the GOP is doing them an intolerable wrong.

Well dear Rats the sentiment is mutual.


28 posted on 11/12/2012 11:26:35 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: thecodont

A tech attack is not a likely explanation of the whole disgusting scene, which embraced card machines as well as touch screen machines.


29 posted on 11/12/2012 12:17:06 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
It’s really odd to me that Obama was not re-lionized a la Che Guevara. How many folks do you meet sporting Big Ears’ visage on their chemises?

So far, I have not seen any. I have not seen people walking around wearing BO T-shirts or buttons. I saw a few the day of the election and the day after, but that was it.

What I have seen lately (not the day after the election but the past few days) is people trying to make eye contact with me and smile at me, and try to get some sort of emotional reaction from me. That did not happen after the 2008 election. People seem "friendly" in some weird way. Maybe it's just my general neighborhood. These are people who ordinarily would go about their daily business any other time. It's very strange.

30 posted on 11/12/2012 7:23:32 PM PST by thecodont
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To: thecodont

Perhaps a mix of “Are we still friends?” and “What an ordeal!”


31 posted on 11/12/2012 7:31:34 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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