Skip to comments.Ron Paul: A New Beginning
Posted on 11/11/2012 5:29:55 PM PST by Renfield
America is over $16 trillion in debt. The official unemployment rate still hovers around 8%.
Our federal government claims the right to spy on American citizens, indefinitely detain them, and even assassinate them without trial.
Domestic drones fly over the country for civilian surveillance.
Twelve million fewer Americans voted in 2012 than in 2008, yet political pundits scratch their heads.
Its not hard to see why, though.
To go along with endorsing a never-ending policy of bailouts, stimulus packages, and foreign military adventurism, the establishment of neither major party questions the assaults on Americans liberties Ive named above.
As my campaign showed, the American people are fed up. Many realized heading into Tuesday that regardless of who won the presidential election, the status quo would be the real victor.
GOP leadership is now questioning why they didnt perform better.
Theyre looking at demographic changes in the United States and implying minorities can only be brought into the party by loudly advocating for abandoning what little remains of their limited government platform and endorsing more statist policies.
My presidential campaign proved that standing for freedom brings people together.
Liberty is popular regardless of race, religion, or creed.
As long as the GOP establishment continues to not only reject the liberty message, but actively drive away the young, diverse coalition that supports those principles, it will see results similar to Tuesdays outcome.
A renewed respect for liberty is the only way forward for the Republican Party and for our country.
I urge all my Republican colleagues to join the liberty movement in fighting for a brighter future.
It is sad how many on the Right would defend these drones if a Republican was in charge, and how many on the Left do the same if Obama is doing it.
It is wrong no matter which side has the power, but all that happens is one “team” plays defense and the other team plays “offense” while the train steams on to the abyss.
I hope his son Rand emerges as a leader in the GOP.
“My presidential campaign proved that standing for freedom brings people together.”
NO Ron Paul you wack job! Your campaign helped screw up the GOP primary and ensure that Romney got the nomination. Thus, you helped reelect Obama....you and the idiots that supported you.
Also, Ron Paul, stop calling yourself a Republican. You are a Libertarian (Libertine) and NOT a real conservative. Go away and stay away!
Don’t worry. Corker and other Republicans are going to bend over FORWARDS to raise taxes.
Worth repeating...”As long as the GOP establishment continues to not only reject the liberty message, but actively drive away the young, diverse coalition that supports those principles, it will see results similar to Tuesdays outcome.”
I do seem to remember quite a few FReepers blasting those of us that supported Ron Paul. Next election, Go Rand!
Er, don't you remember the RP supporters who rules-lawyered delegates to the RNC only to have the rules retroactively changed? That meant that the administrators of that primary were already in the bag for Romney.
Don't you remember the rules-changes proposed, and enacted [the teleprompter incident], that served one purpose alone: to cememnt their voting for Romney.
Don't you remember the refusal to seat one of the delegations?
You are a Libertarian (Libertine) and NOT a real conservative.
Libertine and libertarian are two different things.
...and we have just heard from the Republican establishment. How's life in the country club?
“Theyre looking at demographic changes in the United States and implying minorities can only be brought into the party by loudly advocating for abandoning what little remains of their limited government platform and endorsing more statist policies. “
Go to reason.com and search for immigration. Libertarians are also part of the problem.
RuPaul didn’t endorse Mittens so the Paultards camped out in their mother’s basement election day watching Gilligan’s Island reruns. .
Since you ask, this diversity thing is killing us. Used to be a man could have a quiet drink after a hard day on the course. Now? In comes Biff and Muffy off the tennis court going on and on about their daughters' coming out parties. God I miss the good ol' days when our wives stayed at home and talked about these things at tea.
Can you name some on the Right who are in favor of domestic drone surveillance?
As a long standing member of the FAR right (christian, conservative, gun owner, JBS, Americanist, ... ) I find your statement inflamatory and unhelpful.
“I do seem to remember quite a few FReepers blasting those of us that supported Ron Paul. Next election, Go Rand!”
And those of us that are REAL conservatives will continue to do so. Ron Paul is NOT conservative, he is a Libertarian. Libertarians ARE NOT conservatives...they are LIBERTINES....that is NOT conservative.
“Libertine and libertarian are two different things.”
NO, they are the same thing. Libertarians are “libertine” in their views on morality. Therefore, libertarians are libertines. It is another form of anarchy.
I do not agree with Ron Paul, but if he played by the rules his delegates should be respected. They were not because after over a decade of warning about the dangers of the Fed Reserve and bankers in general, Ron Paul finally is making inroads in the GOP. If you are a banker would you allow that? No way. IMHO phone calls were made from Wall Street and proponent of the Fed Reserve to GOP and the Ron Paul foothold in the GOP is to be destroyed. Problem is GOP chose to side with these bankers who help implode our economy with liar loan mortgage notes sold to unsuspecting investors as AAA investments. Fed Reserve who used the bailouts to cover bad bank speculations and refuse to be audited or have Congressional oversight. Trillions of dollars in the hands of private bankers (that is what the Fed Reserve is, it is not gov) of whom psychologists have profiled and determined 20 percent of them exhibit sociopath behavior. Can we say fraud and abuse? The GOP died for them??? Ron Paul supporters are justified in their anger. They stayed home and the GOP was on their own. Gov Palin whom many sophisticates hate was right, she advised Rommney after he won the nomination to respect and reach out to the Ron Paul supporters. Guess his advisers who are beholden to Wall Street advised him otherwise.
I had some respect for Ron Paul in the old days before he became a flaming libtard 911 truther.
Then why did the majority of blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Jews, etc., vote for Obama?
- a person who advocates liberty, especially with regard to thought or conduct.
- a person who maintains the doctrine of free will (distinguished from necessitarian).
lib·er·tine [lib-er-teen, -tin]
- a person who is morally or sexually unrestrained, especially a dissolute man; a profligate; rake.
- a freethinker in religious matters.
- a person freed from slavery in ancient Rome.
But even if you reject the dictionary, the Libertarian party's own platform says:
We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.
And I agree with that -- it is not the government's place to dictate -- beyond basic, general, and necessarily broad terms -- how a person should live (via law). On the Last Day, it is God before whom men stand, not before government.
Why the ping to Jim? Because I disagree with you?
Here is my take on Ron Paul:
Reduce the current size of the federal government to... um... limit it.
Abolish the income tax to keep the government limited.
Actually follow the Constitution which limits the federal government.
Personal liberty and freedom.
Return to the gold standard.
Why not? Check!
Stop U.S. adventurism overseas and go to war only with a declaration of war.
Let Iran have all the nukes it wants.
Che...err...no. No, can’t do that one. I guess that cancels out the one above as well in certain circumstances.
The point is, Ron Paul brought more good to the table than bad. Always has. I never considered him presidential material but ignoring his ideas is what the Republican Party has done for years and years and look where we are today.
Now someone will come in claiming he is racist... maybe he is, I have no idea. I have never heard of him voting for or sponsoring a bill in Congress institutionalizing racism so for me... I don’t care.
Now someone will jump in and claim he gave us Romney in the primaries. If (candidate of your choice) couldn’t win because of Ron Paul then he/she really wasn’t much of a canditate, was he/she.
Now someone will call him a fruit cake. Okay, I’ll give you that one but he is a fruit cake that has espoused limited goveernment and personal liberty. Christmas is right around the corner and I happen to like fruit cake!
Gov. Bob McDonnell? National Review’s Rich Lowry?
Because (a) they were brainwashed, or (b) they rightly determined that Mitt Romney was a fraud in what he claimed.
You must be one of the brainwashed!
You quote from the “Libertarian” platform:
“We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.”
This is EXACTLY what makes them LIBERTINE. This allows all kinds of unrestrained immoral behavior like OPEN Homoseuxality in the military, etc. etc.
Don’t invoke God, accept at your own peril. You stand judged and condemned by HIM already....you don’t have to wait until “judgement day.” Scripture is clear that such behavior is a DIRECT affront to God...and those that practice it are ALLOW it are already guilty. God ordained government to restrain such wickedness....not allow it.
Libertarians are NOT conservatives...they just share some common enemies with them and have some limited shared interests. However, Libertarians/Libertines don’t belong in the GOP. Wack job Ron Paul and his offspring (if he shares his daddy’s wacky ideas) are just a blight on the GOP. They mislead the young and naive and give aid and comfort to evil doers.
There is NO liberty in the depravity that Libertarians(libertines) will allow. Living in Sodom is not living.
It is wrong no matter which side has the power,
I also curse Bush for The Patriot Act.
“Christmas is right around the corner and I happen to like fruit cake!”
You have been drinking too much of that illegal distilled Kentucky “spring water.” Your brains are addled, and your moral judgement warped.
As disturbing as drones are, I am more concerned about the widespread surveillance society we are already steeped in. All those in favor of big gov surveillance in all its forms, please raise your right hands.
You hijacked conservative and then tell conservatives they are not conservative
Dont invoke God, accept at your own peril.
You stand judged and condemned by HIM already....you dont have to wait until judgement day.
No, I do not; He is my savior and who are you to claim any differently?
Scripture is clear that such behavior is a DIRECT affront to God...and those that practice it are ALLOW it are already guilty.
Sin itself is what makes one guilty; and if the acceptance of homosexuality by government was enough to withhold salvation from a people the Greeks wouldn't have been saved -- but there are many mentions of Greek Christians in the new testament.
The Bible is also clear that murderers are not inheritors of the kingdom of Heaven, and that the Apostle Paul considered himself a murderer -- does that mean that he had no part of the Kingdom of God?
>God ordained government to restrain such wickedness....not allow it.
God also ordained it to uphold justice -- does ours?
I contend that the best, and only lasting way to defeat homosexuality and the like is not through Law but through Jesus -- or do you wish to deny the power of God to change people?
Here is how the libertarian party rolls.
Anybody so hard left that they were of the libertarian party, is a nut case.
Libertarian Party Platform:
Throw open the borders completely and shut down the Border Patrol and INS; only a rare individual (terrorist, disease carrier etc.) can be kept from freedom of movement through political boundaries.
Homosexuals; total freedom in the military, gay marriage, adoption, child custody and everything else.
Abortion; zero restrictions or impediments.
Pornography; no restraint, no restrictions.
Drugs; Meth, Heroin, Crack, and anything new that science can come up with, zero restrictions.
Advertising those drugs, prostitution, and pornography; zero restrictions.
Military Strength; minimal capabilities.
TV has dramatically helped to alter what is acceptable and not to the populace. A cursory view of today's cop drama shows incorporate illegally breaking into houses, torturing the accused, planting evidence, searches without warrants and other abused by Gov't.
Some might think this is merely good drama, but it does serve to obscure the lines of Constitutional protections and rights.
By in large I suspect domestic drones are not ok by the 'right'. Not by grounds of personal privacy and such, but merely because Obama is in the WH. What is acceptable or not is often skewed by who is in charge and what political party is in power.
The logical path from this to open homosexuality in the military goes through some sort of extra-dimensional worm-hole into another universe. Maybe it is LSD induced.
>You must be one of the brainwashed!
Let me put it another way: are you going to follow a guy who doesn’t believe in what he says? — if there were any undecided, they wouldn’t vot for Romney because he didn’t _believe_ in anything he said.
Mitt Romney was *never* the conservative that he fronted during the campaign, and it was obvious that the GOP-e was pushing him with the hopes that the “hold you nose and vote” Republicans would get him in office — he was never a moderate, he is and was a liberal, the GOP-e pushed him because they, too, are liberal (though they try to act differently their actions show the truth).
This is the actual, 2004 text of the Libertarian Party Platform on immigration, which is still current, and is the same as it has always been, it is their permanent position.
COMPLETE PLATFORM TEXT
INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND CIVIL ORDER
The Issue: We welcome all refugees to our country and condemn the efforts of U.S. officials to create a new Berlin Wall which would keep them captive. We condemn the U.S. governments policy of barring those refugees from our country and preventing Americans from assisting their passage to help them escape tyranny or improve their economic prospects.
The Principle: We hold that human rights should not be denied or abridged on the basis of nationality. Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age or sexual preference. We oppose government welfare and resettlement payments to non-citizens just as we oppose government welfare payments to all other persons.
Solutions: We condemn massive roundups of Hispanic Americans and others by the federal government in its hunt for individuals not possessing required government documents. We strongly oppose all measures that punish employers who hire undocumented workers. Such measures repress free enterprise, harass workers, and systematically discourage employers from hiring Hispanics.
Transitional Action: We call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally.
I'm not following anybody, especially a liberty hating POS like Obama.
Mitt Romney was *never* the conservative
Is or was Obama?
the GOP-e pushed him
Pushed? After Bachmann, Cain, Gingrich, Pawlenty and Santorum fell by the wayside?
This must be why Ron Paul voted to destroy the integrity of the United States military by helping to pass the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell, aye?
Libertarians like RP represent the libertine agenda. The libertine agenda is destroying America.
I didn’t say they were right on everything, nor that I agreed with them; just that Libertarian and Libertine are really two different things.
>>Mitt Romney was *never* the conservative
>Is or was Obama?
Irrelevant; there were other candidates one could vote for.
A better question is: if you are against socialism why would you vote for Romney?
>the GOP-e pushed him
>Pushed? After Bachmann, Cain, Gingrich, Pawlenty and Santorum fell by the wayside?
Yes. They *did* push Romney — do you remember how they retroactively changed rules for the primaries to deny Ron Paul delegates to the RNC?
Do you remember the texts of the proposed rule-changes at the RNC? Do you remember the teleprompter incident at the RNC? Do you remember the refusal to seat delegates?
The founding fathers were conservatives, not libertarians. RP’s mantle of “Mr. Constitution” does not square with the founding fathers of this nation.
“Wow you utterly miss the point — which is that it is not the government’s place to enforce morality, that way was already tried and doesn’t work, the only thing that does work is the transformative power of Jesus Christ...”
In America, the government is the people. The people ARE responsible before God to enforce moral behavior in themselves and others in their country or face the “temporal judgement of God as a people (individuals face eternal judgement). So, the government, IS responsible to enforce standards of behavior (AKA Morality). Old Testament concepts are NOT gone by Jesus Christ’s advent...they are fulfilled. However, the concept that allowing “Molech” to continue will cause the land to “vomit you out” remains true today.
Now is being “moral” make one a Christian? No, of course not. Nor can I by law make one inwardly “moral.” Of course not again. However, I can MOST CERTAINLY restrain wickedness in behavior under the penallty of law. That IS RIGHT AND PROPER. In fact to fail to do so is to invite God’s judgement on the land as I have previously stated.
The ONLY thing you have said that was proper is that only Jesus Christ can “transform” a man internally. All the laws, even well enforced, can save a soul.....only the Lord Jesus Christ can do that.
Bu, I am NOT trying nor advocating to use government to save souls, but to restrain evil doers that are unsaved (unregenerate) to make this country worth living in - and safe for the rest of us. Libertarians create a “sewer world” by allowing such vile things as prostitution, etc. I don’t one my child or grandchildren to have to be exposed to pornography, prositution, etc. etc. etc. that libertarians would allow. I know GOD AGREES.
>This must be why Ron Paul voted to destroy the integrity of the United States military by helping to pass the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, aye?
I seem to remember the *implementation* of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” being a step forward for the homosexual-agenda — because it was grounds to keep them in.
>Libertarians like RP represent the libertine agenda. The libertine agenda is destroying America.
No, there are two elements: one is the government and it should be concerned with good stewardship (fiscal conservatism), the other is the American people (or rather God’s Church in America) that should be concerned taking care of people — once the church starts loving the people, real love not ooy-gooy ‘feeling’ but the sort that Jesus showed, then the people as a whole will change, because God is in the business of changing people.
How many votes did open borders Johnson and former democrat lawyer Goode receive?
Do you remember the refusal to seat delegates?
Yes and it is totally irrelevant as indicated by the number of votes cast for other party candidates.
Maybe Rand will strike up a Third Party, now that everyone is on to the Rove-Romney Socialist Republican Party. At least I am.
I agreed with so much of what Ron Paul had to say. He is dead on right about US money, fiscal policy and the Fed, and certainly he was on target regarding the Constitution, liberty and the LIMITS of the federal government.
He is arguably the most serious of the candidates on the facts alone, but his voice problem made him sound daf. Rand Paul is surely a little less anti-Semitic and more reasonable on the military question, concerning his father’s severe take. I thought Paul was so unmercifully ragged on for some of his foreign policy or philosophy that he was never able to elaborate on the reasons for some of these policies before being cut off or driven to distraction.
Have you been living under a rock since 1950? Everything you listed is basically what we have in this country today — except you forgot to mention massive taxes, massive debt, massive regulations...
All of which has been brought to you courtesy of the Democrat Party. Oh, yeah... and the Republican Party, too.
I don’t recall the Libertarian Party controlling to much lately.
Might be watching Gilligan’s Island, but who’s in the White House, Mr. Mainstream Republican?
/Getting tired of these losers bashing Ron Paul
//Did NOT vote for RP
Sorry, I misunderstood.
I thought that you were a libertarian, but you clearly disapprove of their agenda and goals.
- I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
- The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.
- The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive.
- To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
- [Political] offices are as acceptable here as elsewhere, and whenever a man cast a longing eye on them, a rottenness begins in his conduct.
- Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty.
- The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
- A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.
- Mankind will in time discover that unbridled majorities are as tyrannical and cruel as unlimited despots.
- Power always thinks... that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws.
- Fear is the foundation of most governments.
- There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.
- A government of laws, and not of men.
- In politics the middle way is none at all.
- Property is surely a right of mankind as real as liberty.
I'm sure I could find more, but the Founders really were more about liberty than any previous government that I'm aware of. It is a disservice to say that they were not libertarians (words have actual meanings), though I will admit the Libertarian-party didn't exist then and likely wouldn't have been popular... but then again, the founders were, under England, freer than we are today as Americans.
RPs mantle of Mr. Constitution does not square with the founding fathers of this nation.
So long as he encourages people to read and understand the Constitution, I'd say he's a sight bit better than many in office... and I would include Justice Roberts in that list of people.
Obama will appoint 3 supreme court justices. He will do damage that will last for decades while people worried about Mitt not being conservative enough. Absolutely mind numbing.
>>there were other candidates one could vote for
>How many votes did open borders Johnson and former democrat lawyer Goode receive?
Johnson got 1% of the general vote — there were about 2% total third-party votes.
> Do you remember the refusal to seat delegates?
> Yes and it is totally irrelevant as indicated by the number of votes cast for other party candidates.
What, are you kidding? 1% for a third-party is huge nowadays — ever since Ross Perot ran 3rd party, got a big chunk of the general vote, and the Big Two changed the rules so to undermine any 3rd party, that is.
What you also have to consider is how many people believe that there are only two [viable] parties — if you believe that and think there’s no real difference in the Republican and Democratic candidates, then you’ll stay home (after all, in that case your vote really doesn’t matter).
That helps explain at least some of the greater than 50% of eligible voters not-voting.