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GE, Pickens' Clean Energy in natural-gas supply deal for trucks
Yahoo/Reuters ^

Posted on 11/13/2012 7:09:42 AM PST by shove_it

(Reuters) - General Electric Co (GE) reached a deal to sell equipment to Clean Energy Fuels Corp (CLNE), which is building out a series of liquefied natural gas fueling stations for U.S. truckers.

The largest U.S. conglomerate sees liquefied natural gas equipment as becoming a $1 billion market over the next five years, said Mike Hosford, general manager of unconventional resources for GE Oil & Gas.

Clean Energy, which counts T. Boone Pickens as its largest investor, agreed to buy two GE-made MicroLNG plants to provide liquefied natural gas for a network of 70 natural gas fueling stations it is opening at truck stops along U.S. interstate highways this year, the company said in a statement released on Tuesday...

(Excerpt) Read more at finance.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: energy

1 posted on 11/13/2012 7:09:48 AM PST by shove_it
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To: shove_it

About time!
Wondering if they’ll also be available for smaller and personal vehicles?


2 posted on 11/13/2012 7:13:54 AM PST by X-spurt (It is time for OFF YOUR FEET and on the gravy-train)
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To: X-spurt

Pickens still looking for taxpayer funding for his miracle?


3 posted on 11/13/2012 7:21:49 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: X-spurt
This is an LNG project. According to the Form 8-K:

"...GE agreed to loan to the Borrowers up to an aggregate of $200 million to finance the development, construction and operation of two liquefied natural gas ("LNG") production facilities (individually a "Project" and together the "Projects"), each with an expected production capacity of approximately 250,000 LNG gallons per day. Clean Energy expects to sell the LNG produced by the Projects through America's Natural Gas Highway�, a nationwide network of LNG truck fueling stations, which Clean Energy is building along major transportation corridors in the United States..."

Cars typically run on CNG.

4 posted on 11/13/2012 7:28:39 AM PST by shove_it ( The 0bama regime are the people Orwell and Rand warned us about.)
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To: cripplecreek

Reduced range is the only downside I see with nat gas as a motor fuel.


5 posted on 11/13/2012 7:28:39 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: cripplecreek

Obviously the project is proceeding via private financing.


6 posted on 11/13/2012 7:31:08 AM PST by shove_it ( The 0bama regime are the people Orwell and Rand warned us about.)
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To: shove_it

Considering the high cost of diesel fuel, this sounds a lot more promising than anything the President has invested in for green energy. NCG availability at truck stops would be a good start, since many municipal fleets use it, would be great for the trucking industry.


7 posted on 11/13/2012 7:53:26 AM PST by Qwackertoo (Going into Politic Free Zone Momma Grizzly hibernation for a while after this week, maybe forever.)
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To: shove_it

Clean Energy is America's largest provider of natural gas fuel for transportation — your connection to natural gas fueling. Trucks powered by cleaner, cheaper, domestic natural gas will soon travel the country on America's Natural Gas Highway™, our network of LNG truck fueling stations on Interstate Highways connecting major metropolitan areas coast-to-coast and border-to-border.

The first phase includes approximately 150 LNG fueling stations with more than 70 anticipated in 33 states by the end of 2012 and the balance in 2013. Many will be co-located at Pilot-Flying J Travel Centers already serving goods movement trucking.

8 posted on 11/13/2012 8:02:09 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Qwackertoo
NCG availability at truck stops

They are providing LNG for this initiative. Some (all?) stations will have CNG as well.

9 posted on 11/13/2012 8:05:45 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
If the engine is LNG only, the engine can be designed to be more efficient. higher compression and turbo chargers make the range more comparable. You couldn't have a flex fuel vehicle though.

Back in the day,( I'm 61) we had Cadillacs and Lincolns that could get 2nd gear rubber and got 23 mpg. The difference was 11:1 compression and they burned ethyl gas. You could get 102-104 octane at many stations. Those were the days.

The same principle works today if we decided to burn alcohol or Nat Gas. If you go to the drag races, you can see alcohol dragsters that work pretty good on straight ethanol. They would burn a piston if you put gas in them. The fuel is less dense, but you are using it more efficiently. A 2.0 liter engine would run like a 3.8 liter gas engine and get better mileage and save weight. Nat gas would be such a loss in density, I'm not sure you could get the same effect, but Nat Gas is a fraction of the cost of gasoline. If NG was the equivalent of $1 a gallon, who cares if it gets 11-15 mpg?

I've often believed we could use ethanol fuel like Brazil, but we can't seem to break the corn cartel. You can use several sources other than corn for fuel, but the corn cartel would shed blood before that ever happened. I'm not a chemist, but I'm willing to bet they can make alcohol out of Nat gas or even coal besides sugar cane.

10 posted on 11/13/2012 8:13:16 AM PST by chuckles
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To: thackney

Maybe CNG in a box will be installed at those LNG stations?... http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2942161/posts

Thanks for posting those maps and station locations again.

Nat Gas is a quick solution to a bunch of our problems.


11 posted on 11/13/2012 8:29:42 AM PST by shove_it ( The 0bama regime are the people Orwell and Rand warned us about.)
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To: chuckles
My mom had a ‘61 Coup de Ville that would get 2nd gear scratch and would out drag a neighbor's ‘62 Vette.

I agree on the compression ratio being useful toward fuel economy. My ‘02 Porsche has 13 to 1 CR, with 320 horsepower, yet gets 26 miles per gallon at 70-75 mph.

I once thought nat gas would be the answer to most short haul trucking needs, ie: inner city deliveries, trash hauling, etc. With all the new crude oil coming on line, gas may have to wait.

12 posted on 11/13/2012 8:39:27 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: shove_it

It DEFINITELY won’t be a Chesapeake Energy product at a Clean Energy Fueling Terminal.

Clean Energy already has more CNG fueling stations than LNG stations. The ones already in service can be found at:

http://www.cnglngstations.com/

I notice not too many of the LNG stations show up at that link. They were supposed to complete 70 of them by the end of 2012.

http://www.cleanenergyfuels.com/viewstations.html


13 posted on 11/13/2012 8:43:23 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
With all the new crude oil coming on line, gas may have to wait.

We still import more crude oil than we produce ourselves. We have a long way to go to be independent on crude oil and it's refined products.

We are not far from producing more Natural Gas than we use ourselves. That is the market with the most surplus in the foreseeable future.

14 posted on 11/13/2012 8:46:54 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Reduced range is the only downside I see with nat gas as a motor fuel.

The greater than times ten reduction in fuel costs might make up for that.

15 posted on 11/13/2012 8:48:46 AM PST by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: chuckles

Actually with the advent of direct injection, gas engine compression ratios are way up again. The GM 4 and 6 cylinders with DI are > 11:1 compression.


16 posted on 11/13/2012 8:50:53 AM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's bankruptcy: 2016)
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To: DiogenesLamp

We’ll see if the states overlook the road tax hike opportunities...


17 posted on 11/13/2012 8:50:53 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: thackney
The Arabs, Vens and Mexicans still gotta sell. More US crude will drive the price for all crudes downward (at least it should.)
18 posted on 11/13/2012 8:55:02 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: DiogenesLamp
The greater than times ten reduction in fuel costs might make up for that.

Where do you live that you pay $20~25 a gallon for gasoline or diesel?

http://www.cleanenergyfuels.com/news/2012/11-1-12.html

Currently priced up to $1.50 a gallon lower than gasoline or diesel depending on local markets...

19 posted on 11/13/2012 8:59:06 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

If there is a significant drop in crude oil price, you are going to see a significant drop in crude oil drilling of fields like the Bakken, EagleFord, Utica, Woodford, etc.

We won’t get our large increase in oil production with out stable price in the current price neighborhood.

Natural Gas is already relatively cheap.


20 posted on 11/13/2012 9:03:38 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
Wonder what the breakeven is in the Bakken by now ?
Would they quit pumping at $40 ?
21 posted on 11/13/2012 9:59:34 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
They wouldn't shut down production, but they would shut down spending ~$10 million on each new well. Bakken production declines pretty fast without new drilling.


22 posted on 11/13/2012 10:36:10 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

Thanks, got my LNG mixed up with my CNG on my post. I think it is a better way to go, with both, just need the infrastructure to service and then the car companies to mfg.

With all the car makers now in right to work states, I bet they could all get on board in lightening speed compared to UAW ran operations of Government Motors.


23 posted on 11/13/2012 11:04:59 AM PST by Qwackertoo (Going into Politic Free Zone Momma Grizzly hibernation for a while after this week, maybe forever.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Whether oil is available or not, your idea about trucks and delivery vehicles still stands IMHO. You need a local station to deliver Nat Gas to the vehicles to make it work. I worked for Southwestern Bell for 30 years and had a gas card for local stations the last few years. For decades, though, we got gas at the garage we were stationed at. Nat Gas, or any other specialized fuel, would work at a stationary garage for the phone company, post office, ect.

The phone company literally spends tens of millions on gasoline every year. Just think what would happen to the bottom line if they integrated Nat Gas in the mix over a few years. We usually ditched a truck after 10 years or 100-150k miles. In five or 6 years we could replace every vehicle that used a fuel for way less than $2 a gallon equivalent.

24 posted on 11/13/2012 11:35:22 AM PST by chuckles
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To: chuckles

Another plus is nat gas fueled engines run cleaner and last longer.


25 posted on 11/13/2012 11:38:41 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: nascarnation
I understand DI and it's efficiencies, but I don't understand how you could have 11:1 and not knock with 87 octane. Even turbo's are limited to about 3 lbs of boost and all sorts of timing retardation to boost at 3 lbs and not ping. A turbo with 8:1 pistons limited to 3 lbs of boost is all just to get more air/fuel into the cylinder to mimic a higher cubic inch engine. To increase efficiency, you need higher compression ratio's. 87 octane,( to my knowledge) won't do that with 30lbs of boost on a 8:1 or even nat aspirated @12:1 compression. You will burn a piston. Water injection might help to a certain degree.

This is what I miss so much about the "Good Ole Days" and 102 octane.

Do these GM engines have variable valve timing or something? What cars have these? I'm interested.

26 posted on 11/13/2012 11:46:58 AM PST by chuckles
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To: chuckles

http://gmpowertrain.com/VehicleEngines/PowertrainProducts.aspx


27 posted on 11/13/2012 11:50:59 AM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's bankruptcy: 2016)
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To: cripplecreek

Not really a miracle, NG works. But yes T-Boone is wanting in on the cronie dollar tsunami flowing from DC.


28 posted on 11/13/2012 2:24:53 PM PST by X-spurt (It is time for OFF YOUR FEET and on the gravy-train)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

CNG may have slightly reduced range VS gas/diesel. LNG probably has increased range VS Diesel.


29 posted on 11/13/2012 2:50:52 PM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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One of the old SDS members is in on this.


30 posted on 11/13/2012 2:52:57 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: thackney
Where do you live that you pay $20~25 a gallon for gasoline or diesel?

http://www.cleanenergyfuels.com/news/2012/11-1-12.html

Currently priced up to $1.50 a gallon lower than gasoline or diesel depending on local markets...

I am currently in the process of getting my own CNG station up and running. The last numbers I saw on natural gas prices was something around $3.00/M . According to this chart, the current price is something in that vicinity.

Given that the "M" refers to a thousand cubic feet of gas, and since a "gallon" equivalent of natural gas is about 120 cubic feet, then the price per gallon of natural gas out of the pipeline ought to be about $0.36/gallon.

Add on to that a nominal pumping cost and you are probably looking at 40 cents per gallon.

Multiply times 10, and you get $4.00/ gallon, which is what Diesel is selling for in a lot of places right now.

http://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/

31 posted on 11/13/2012 2:53:46 PM PST by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: thackney

“It DEFINITELY won’t be a Chesapeake Energy product at a Clean Energy Fueling Terminal.”

Did this deal fall thru? ...

Chesapeake Energy to Invest $150 Million in Clean Energy
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/11/idUS200579+11-Jul-2011+BW20110711

I just watched Jim Cramer interview A.J. Littlefair, the CLNE boss who said they are working with CHK.

The second link you posted lists about 70 stations.


32 posted on 11/13/2012 5:08:38 PM PST by shove_it ( The 0bama regime are the people Orwell and Rand warned us about.)
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To: shove_it

Here’s the full press release:

GE and Clean Energy Fuels Partner to Expand ‘America’s Natural Gas Highway®’

* Clean Energy to Use GE’s MicroLNG Technology at Two New LNG Facilities
* New MicroLNG Technology Builds on GE Oil & Gas’ Global Success in Large LNG Projects

HOUSTON—November 13, 2012—GE (NYSE: GE) and Clean Energy Fuels (Nasdaq: CLNE) today announced a collaboration to expand the infrastructure for natural gas transportation in the United States. The agreement supports Clean Energy’s efforts in developing “America’s Natural Gas Highway®,” a fueling network that will enable trucks to operate on Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) coast to coast and border to border. Truck fleets often can reduce fuel costs by more than 25 percent and lower emissions with LNG.

As part of the collaboration, Clean Energy Fuels will initially purchase two ecomagination™-qualified MicroLNG plants from GE Oil & Gas. The plug-and-play modular units, which are designed to rapidly liquefy natural gas while minimizing a site’s physical footprint, will support fueling stations along critical transportation corridors that run across the U.S. Further underscoring GE’s commitment to expanding natural gas transportation infrastructure, GE Energy Financial Services is providing up to $200 million in financing for the two GE MicroLNG plants.

“GE is proud to be partnering with Clean Energy Fuels to develop natural gas infrastructure in the U.S. Clean Energy is an industry leader in pioneering a new way for America to fuel its vehicles and to further gain energy independence,” said GE Chairman and CEO Jeff Immelt. “With an abundance of cleaner, more affordable natural gas here in the U.S., this is an important opportunity for GE to join Clean Energy in changing the way America drives. It’s also a critical step in developing a natural gas-for-transportation fuel model that can be easily exported to other countries interested in exactly these kinds of breakthrough projects.”

Clean Energy expects to complete approximately 70 LNG stations by the end of 2012, with more planned for next year to serve the movement of goods along major transportation corridors throughout the U.S. While CNG, or compressed natural gas, is primarily used in cars, buses and smaller trucks, the LNG fueling being rolled out at Clean Energy’s stations is targeted at long-haul, heavy-duty trucks, which will have the advantage of longer driving ranges while not impacting tractor weight and incremental costs. In 2013, four major manufacturers will introduce the Cummins Westport 12-liter LNG engine, which is the optimum size for long-haul Class 8 trucks.

Clean Energy plans to use a standardized design of the new GE MicroLNG plants to build additional MicroLNG plants. These first two MicroLNG plants will produce up to 250,000 gallons per day. The plant is designed to be expanded up to 1 million gallons per day as adoption and demand increases. The LNG produced by the MicroLNG plants will be used primarily at Pilot-Flying J truck stops that serve truckers across the country. The two GE MicroLNG plants are targeted to begin operation in 2015. The two companies are currently assessing the best locations for these first two LNG plants.

“The agreement announced today with GE is one of the most significant milestones in Clean Energy’s history,” said Andrew J. Littlefair, president and CEO of Clean Energy Fuels. “As the long-haul trucking industry begins its transition to natural gas, it will be critical to have a reliable supply of LNG. No other company is as uniquely qualified as GE to help address this need due to its vast experience in energy, technology innovations and financing capabilities. GE partnering with Clean Energy on these two facilities will not only help ensure an adequate LNG supply for our stations, but it is another confirmation that the transition to natural gas as a transportation fuel is gaining momentum.”

Natural gas is an abundant, reliable and cleaner-burning source of energy for consumers and commercial users. Clean Energy Fuels and GE are promoting the importance of natural gas to the U.S. economy, enabling energy independence and decreasing CO2 emissions—in this case, by enabling long-haul trucks and fleets to move from diesel to cleaner, more efficient and readily available domestic natural gas.

“GE is committed to natural gas. From extraction to transport to power generation—we continue to develop solutions that infuse new technologies into the value chain and help improve every step of the natural gas development and deployment life cycle,” said Dan Heintzelman, president and CEO of GE Oil & Gas. “Our ecomagination-qualified MicroLNG plant was born from the same turbomachinery technology that has made GE a success in large LNG compression such as in the world-scale plants in Qatar and Australia. By taking this technology and reengineering it so that it’s modular and highly efficient, we are able to help customers such as Clean Energy deliver this abundant and cleaner fuel source to the market.”

GE’s MicroLNG plant can liquefy natural gas at any point along a gas distribution network, making it ideal for supporting the fueling of vehicles in remote locations by reducing the impact of long distance fuel transport. This MicroLNG technology is part of GE’s expanding technology offerings in the natural gas-for-transportation sector.

The new GE MicroLNG system that will be used by Clean Energy will produce 250,000 gallons of LNG per day, or about 54 million DGEs (diesel gallon equivalents) per year with the built-in capability for further expansion, which is a 67 percent increase over the capacity of the breakthrough MicroLNG plant that GE Oil & Gas first introduced in January of 2012. The new system will help reduce a fleet operator’s fuel costs by more than 25 percent compared to diesel fuel. LNG produced with this MicroLNG system can be used to fuel approximately 28,000 heavy trucks, replacing diesel-powered trucks with equivalent fuel economy. This could enable fleet operators to avoid more than 139,000 metric tons of CO2e emissions per year, equivalent to the annual greenhouse gas emissions of approximately 27,000 cars using gasoline or 7,000 trucks using dieselon U.S. roads—assuming an average truck travels approximately 14,000 miles per year.

GE also is providing turnkey process/plant construction and consultations on optimal plant location and power partner. The scope of the agreement also includes project installation. It entails not only the liquefaction but also the complete process design from the pre-treatment of the gas to the storage system.

Ecomagination is GE’s commitment to providing innovative solutions that maximize resources, drive economic performance and help make the world work better.

About GE
GE (NYSE: GE) works on things that matter. The best people and the best technologies taking on the toughest challenges. Finding solutions in energy, health and home, transportation and finance. Building, powering, moving and curing the world. Not just imagining. Doing. GE works. For more information, visit the company’s website at www.ge.com.

About GE Oil & Gas
GE Oil & Gas is a world leader in advanced technology equipment and services for all segments of the oil and gas industry, from drilling and production, LNG, pipelines and storage to industrial power generation, refining and petrochemicals. GE Oil & Gas also provides pipeline integrity solutions, including inspection and data management, and designs and manufactures wire-line and drilling measurement solutions for the oilfield services segment.

As part of its customer focus and commitment, GE Oil & Gas exploits technological innovation from other GE businesses, such as aviation and healthcare, to continuously improve oil and gas industry performance and productivity. GE Oil & Gas employs more than 35,000 people worldwide and operates in more than 100 countries.

Follow GE Oil & Gas on Twitter @GE_OilandGas.

About Clean Energy Fuels
Clean Energy (Nasdaq: CLNE) is the largest provider of natural gas fuel for transportation in North America and a global leader in the expanding natural gas vehicle fueling market. We have operations in compressed natural gas (CNG) and liquefied natural gas (LNG) vehicle fueling and construction and operation of natural gas fueling stations. Wholly-owned subsidiaries include BAF Technologies, which provides natural gas vehicle systems and conversions for taxis, vans, pick-up trucks and shuttle buses; IMW Industries, Ltd., which supplies CNG equipment for vehicle fueling and industrial applications worldwide; NorthStar, which supplies LNG and liquefied to compressed natural gas fueling system technologies and equipment, station construction and operations; and Clean Energy Renewable Fuels (CERF), which develops renewable natural gas (RNG), or biomethane, production facilities in the U.S. For more information, visit www.cleanenergyfuels.com

###

“America’s Natural Gas Highway” is a trademark of Clean Energy.
ecomagination is a trademark of the General Electric Company.


33 posted on 11/13/2012 5:10:31 PM PST by shove_it ( The 0bama regime are the people Orwell and Rand warned us about.)
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To: DiogenesLamp

Your gas price link, residential price is about $20 per thousand. $3 is a trading price not a consumer price.

Natural Gas then compressed to over 3,000 psi at a vehicle fueling station is going to be around $2.00~$2.50 per gasoline gallon equivalent. Possibly more in markets like California.


34 posted on 11/13/2012 5:38:51 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: shove_it

Interesting. Clean Energy was providing CNG fueling station for many years. I saw Chspk entry into the market as completion.

Thanks for the info.


35 posted on 11/13/2012 5:44:55 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
Natural Gas then compressed to over 3,000 psi at a vehicle fueling station is going to be around $2.00~$2.50 per gasoline gallon equivalent. Possibly more in markets like California.

That's not the information I'm getting from my local gas company. You may or may not know this, but if you have a large amount of gas usage, you can buy your supply on the spot market, and pay a transport fee to the gas company who's pipelines you use to transport the fuel. You do not have to buy the natural gas from the company that owns the pipes leading to your application.

It is no difficult task for a large user of Natural gas to buy the fuel on the market to supply their own stations. A large trucking company could easily manage the usage necessary to make this worthwhile.

I'm shooting for a sell to the public price of $1.00/gallon for my own station. But for my own usage, i'm expecting the price to be around 50-60 cents per gallon. I'll find out soon how that's going to work out. My output pressure is going to be 3,600 #.

36 posted on 11/14/2012 6:17:42 AM PST by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: DiogenesLamp
You may or may not know this, but if you have a large amount of gas usage, you can buy your supply on the spot market, and pay a transport fee to the gas company who's pipelines you use to transport the fuel.

You need to a bit more research on that cost. If you believe you are going to fuel a car at a better rate than refinery buys gas, you are mistaken.

I'm shooting for a sell to the public price of $1.00/gallon for my own station.

I wish you lots of luck with that. It will be interesting to see how you can compete at such a different price level than the majors.

I'll find out soon how that's going to work out. My output pressure is going to be 3,600 #.

Have you priced the cost to purchase, operate and maintain such compression and fuel station?

37 posted on 11/14/2012 6:52:07 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: DiogenesLamp
By the way, if you reach $1/gal equivalent, I still don't see where you approach a 10:1 ratio of savings for the consumer.

For those interested, a chart below of price comparison on average.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Source:
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/prices.html

Since the time of these prices in Summer, Natural Gas has risen in price a bit and crude oil has fallen, making the difference even smaller.

I agree there is a price difference. I expect that price difference will drive more vehicles to use natural gas in the near future. I do not want FReepers to expect a 10 to one price savings; that will not happen.

38 posted on 11/14/2012 7:11:05 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
I agree there is a price difference. I expect that price difference will drive more vehicles to use natural gas in the near future. I do not want FReepers to expect a 10 to one price savings; that will not happen.

Who's talking about consumers? Wasn't the topic about long haul truckers and trucking companies? They will be able to get price differentials over and above what an ordinary consumer will be able to manage. To my knowledge, consumers don't use LIQUID natural gas. They use COMPRESSED natural gas. This topic is NOT ABOUT consumers.

If Diesel is $4.00/ Gallon, and the spot market is around 36 cents / gallon, then it is plausible for long haul trucking companies to realize a 10/1 savings, (Optimistically) in fuel costs. (Under current market conditions.)

Now you may argue that in practice, the ratio may be 9 to 1, or 8 to 1, but it is still a huge price differential, and well worth the effort in the long run. (Given that gas stocks are at an all time high, and only looking to go higher.)

Consumers will have to satisfy themselves with a more modest price differential. Prices in my area are aroung $1.40/ GGE, but it is my intention to keep my prices at $1.00/GGE to help build a customer base and to spur usage of this fuel.

I believe that anything we Americans can do to cut the financial throat of the middle east is in the best interests of our nation. Making their oil worthless is a good idea for us. Let's starve the bastards and watch them die.

39 posted on 11/14/2012 7:44:34 AM PST by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: DiogenesLamp
Who's talking about consumers? Wasn't the topic about long haul truckers and trucking companies?

Those are consumers.

If Diesel is $4.00/ Gallon, and the spot market is around 36 cents / gallon, then it is plausible for long haul trucking companies to realize a 10/1 savings

In my opinion, there is no way the economics will work out, but I hope you find a way to make it work.

To my knowledge, consumers don't use LIQUID natural gas.

I have done engineering/design/construction in both LNG and CNG facilities. If you are talking about LNG, refrigerating down to -260°F, that is more expensive equipment and requires more energy than the compression system.

Now you may argue that in practice, the ratio may be 9 to 1, or 8 to 1, but it is still a huge price differential, and well worth the effort in the long run.

I don't think you can economically achieve 3 to 1. I believe 2 to 1 still gives reason to use the fuel, in the long run.

Prices in my area are aroung $1.40/ GGE

You have LNG selling at $1.40 a gallon? Or do you mean a commercial natural gas price from the pipeline? Will you give the approximate area/city?

I believe that anything we Americans can do to cut the financial throat of the middle east is in the best interests of our nation.

I agree and Natural Gas as a transportation fuel helps get this done. But we need to set realistic expectations or people will abandon the concept because the measuring stick used calls it a failure when it really works, just not as well as an outrageous claim.

40 posted on 11/14/2012 8:19:06 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: DiogenesLamp
In reading back over the thread, trying to see if I missed something since the numbers seem so off, I find from you:

I'm shooting for a sell to the public price of $1.00/gallon for my own station. But for my own usage, i'm expecting the price to be around 50-60 cents per gallon. I'll find out soon how that's going to work out. My output pressure is going to be 3,600 #.

and

Who's talking about consumers? Wasn't the topic about long haul truckers and trucking companies? They will be able to get price differentials over and above what an ordinary consumer will be able to manage. To my knowledge, consumers don't use LIQUID natural gas. They use COMPRESSED natural gas. This topic is NOT ABOUT consumers.

If Diesel is $4.00/ Gallon, and the spot market is around 36 cents / gallon, then it is plausible for long haul trucking companies to realize a 10/1 savings, (Optimistically) in fuel costs. (Under current market conditions.)

So are you talking about LNG or CNG with your price numbers?

41 posted on 11/14/2012 11:07:45 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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