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5 Reasons Amnesty Would Be Political Suicide For The Republican Party
Townhall ^ | 11/13/2012 | John Hawkins

Posted on 11/13/2012 7:46:38 AM PST by SeekAndFind

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To: stephenjohnbanker

No problem.


51 posted on 11/13/2012 12:10:10 PM PST by OddLane
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To: publius911

NEVER, NEVER trust the promise of a Demoncrat or RINO.....


52 posted on 11/13/2012 12:17:17 PM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: Pelham
The judiciary is a huge problem.

Has been since Plyler vs. Doe was decided.

Blackmun and Brennan did more damage to this country than almost anyone else in the past four decades.

53 posted on 11/13/2012 12:23:30 PM PST by OddLane
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To: SeekAndFind

How is the GOP and U.S. conservatism not finished, after all of these pro-leftist issues pass?


54 posted on 11/13/2012 12:28:30 PM PST by johnthebaptistmoore (The world continues to be stuck in a "all leftist, all of the time" funk. BUNK THE FUNK!)
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To: OddLane

Add to which the majority of college grads these days have been firmly indoctrinated with either the white guilt, or the it’s whitey’s fault, mantra, depending....


55 posted on 11/13/2012 12:59:26 PM PST by moehoward
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To: nevergore

Problem is, we have people like you who can’t tell the difference between Conservative values and Tribal values.

Yes, the invading barbarians may be very careful with their resources, but they’re more than willing to grab everything they can from their victims. Same thing with women; they might take care their own, but the outsider’s women are just there for taking...

Some illegal aliens may have conservative values; most of them are tribal and consider outsiders like you and me to be potential victims.


56 posted on 11/13/2012 1:07:10 PM PST by Little Ray (I have VOTED AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Amnesty for illegals(most of whom are Latinos and Mexicans who overwhelmingly vote for the most extremist left wing candidates) is the dumbest idea I ever heard of..unless you are a far left Democratic Party fanatic. It's against the interest of most Americans, even moderate Democrats.
57 posted on 11/13/2012 1:15:32 PM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe

Looks hopeless to me. We cannot help ourselves with pushing amnesty. Even the modest effort Arizona made for protection was struck down by the SC (we should have known right then Roberts was going to stab us in the back). We cannot help ourselves giving more candy. These people will eventually turn on each other but we will be long gone…Unless a few states really do sussed, but even at that most of us are “hooked” because if Social Security etc. so it looks dim indeed.


58 posted on 11/13/2012 2:02:24 PM PST by gibsonguy
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To: donna
"LOL, do you promise, no vote? Sort of a slave labor force?"

Nothing "slave labor" about it. They can always leave. Slave labor doesn't have that choice.

"What do you think happens to a nation with millions of permanent foreigners who have no voting power to control their own lives?"

They have complete control over their own lives.....just nobody else's. Your comment is totally lacking in logic.

59 posted on 11/13/2012 3:16:47 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: moehoward
"It's called 'future SCOTUS fodder'. Just like DOMA is doomed, so will be any attempt at a 'separate but equal' fix to Illegals."

Sorry, not buying it.

60 posted on 11/13/2012 3:19:00 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

I we wanted logic all the illegal aliens would be deported.


61 posted on 11/13/2012 3:25:49 PM PST by donna (Pray for revival.)
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To: Little Ray; Theodore R.; sand88; Cheerio; kabar

Cute...tribal values....

I guess your “we” means your views are the only true pure conservative views and you are the defacto spokesperson for all that is true, good, holy and conservative.......

“We” meaning Americans, created this mess with illegals on our Southern border. Our federal and state governments for years looked the other way with a wink and a nod. In many cases encouraged workers to pour into this counrty to take jobs we didn’t want. Businesses and agriculture were happily their willing accomplices.

The “illegals” responded and eventually brought their families and planted roots here. That trickle of workers quickly turned into a flood.

Now, we want them out..... Arrest them, lose the home they bought, leave their possession and everything they worked for, have their kids ripped out of school and deport the bunch....

We clearly have the legal right, they are here illegally, right? We didn’t make them come, they snuck here in the middle of the night, in many cases paid a bounty to a smuggler, risked their life in the desert to be here.

So great PooBah of pure conservative values, now that you have the power and the law on your side, what would you do to solve the issue? You’ve got the guy’s with the guns, tell them what to do.....

Tell me what solution would allow you to look in the mirror each morning, look your children in their eyes and remain a follower of Christ.


62 posted on 11/14/2012 3:49:30 AM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: nevergore

Sorry. I wouldn’t lose a minute of sleep shipping them home in cattle cars.

I would just smile at the thought of ERs no longer being swamped by illegals using them as primary care and sticking us with the bills. With the thought that my tax dollars would no longer be going to educate their non-English speaking children. That my streets would be safer with fewer drunk or otherwise incompetent drivers. That identity theft would plummet.

I would be able shave and attend church just fine, thank you.


63 posted on 11/14/2012 6:44:01 AM PST by Little Ray (I have VOTED AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: nevergore
The lawbreakers are not victims. They have not only entered our country illegally in violation of our laws, they have worked illegally occupying 8 million American jobs; they have committed identity theft; they have engaged in tax evasion; they have used phony SSNs or stolen them; they are driving illegally, and there are an estimated 2 million criminal aliens who have left a trail of death and destruction including the deaths of an estimated 50,000 American citizens since the 2001 9/11 attack.

If you want a plan to deal with these lawbreakers and to change our immigrantion policies, here is one.

Advocate a pro-immigrant policy of low immigration.

Republicans need to provide the American people with their own comprehensive immigration reform plan, i.e., give people a reason to vote FOR something rather than just attack the other side’s proposals. Such a plan should contain the following elements:

 Formulate a merit based immigration system that brings in the skills and talents to keep us competitive in the global economy;

 Reduce immigration levels based on need more closely approximating 300,000 a year;

 Eliminate extended chain migration, i.e., family reunification, limiting it to the nuclear family,

 Secure the border;

 Enforce existing immigration laws to reduce the current illegal alien population and limit future illegal immigration, i.e., attrition thru enforcement. Enforcement would include: (1) ending the job magnet; (2) increasing coordination at the federal level by eliminating barriers to information sharing among agencies; (3) leveraging state and local enforcement resources; (4) fully implementing the US-VISIT Program to track and deport visa overstays; and (5) make mandatory and improve such programs as E-Verify and 287 [g] authority to assist employers and law enforcement in identifying illegal aliens;

 Eliminate birthright citizenship and the visa lottery program;

 Ensure that anyone who enters this nation illegally is not rewarded by being permitted to stay and work here; i.e., no amnesty;

 Streamline the processing and adjudication of immigration cases;

 Promote pro-immigrant measures that help newcomers assimilate and embrace the values and principles of our Founders and the Constitution.

64 posted on 11/14/2012 7:41:00 AM PST by kabar
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To: Little Ray

Good for you.....I’m glad you have a clear conscience....My only wish for you is that you get the job of putting them on the cattle cars to ship them back, it’s your calling.....you apparently were born 70 years too late....

BTW, the majority of them are decent people, but when our government opened the doors without discretion, a lot of bad ones slipped in as well....


65 posted on 11/14/2012 8:05:22 AM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: kabar

Secure the border should be number one on your list....

BTW, I never called them victims, your word not mine. I called them illegals....

However, our government was horrendously duplicitous in allowing this to happen. Our government means, we the people.....This was encouraged behavior on our part....Not just for a few years but multi-generational.....

You can try to separate yourself from these policies but in the end, our Federal government was the illegals “partner in crime”. It has been criminal what our government has allowed...

Let that sink in and think about it for awhile.....You are directly responsible and a “partner in crime” for the illegal issue. Not stating you were a willing participant, you were not driving the getaway car but you were a passenger....We all are, we are responsible for our goverment’s actions.....

Now we have to deal with the aftermath....


66 posted on 11/14/2012 8:20:03 AM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: nevergore
Secure the border should be number one on your list....

Securing the border only solves part of the problem of illegal immigration. 40% of the current illegal population came here legally and overstayed their visas, which is why we should implement the US-VISIT program fully. We have over 50 million visitors annually in the US. We need to be able to track their entry and departure and if they overstay their visas, track them down and deport them.

BTW, I never called them victims, your word not mine. I called them illegals....

You made excuses for their illegal behavior. It is the fault of the USG and states that allowed them to come here and give them a wink and a nod. It is like blaming the rape victim for dressing too provocatively. These are lawbreakers who have thumbed their noses at our laws and broke them multiple times. We owe them nothing.

You can try to separate yourself from these policies but in the end, our Federal government was the illegals “partner in crime”. It has been criminal what our government has allowed...

That same federal government was/is supported by the American people. We deserve the government we get.

Motivated by parochial self-interest, the pro-mass immigration, open borders, amnesty advocates have formed a powerful coalition including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, labor union leaders, the Catholic Church, ethnic and racial groups, “moderate” Republicans, and the Democrat Party. The common thread that unites these groups is power, money, and the prospect of increased constituencies, even at the expense of our long-term national interests and survival.

Now we have to deal with the aftermath....

We dealt with the aftermath in 1986 with a "one-time" amnesty that was supposed to solve the illegal alien problem once and for all. The proponents promised that this would be the last and only amnesty. The USG estimated 1 million would apply, but the true number turned out to be 2.7 million. And the process was with rife with fraud. Ed Meese has said it was a huge mistake and should not be repeated. Now we have 12 to 20 million illegal alien just 26 years later.

Any legislation that legalizes the status of those who broke our laws by entering our country illegally and allows them to stay and work here is amnesty. We must not only prevent the Democrats and some moderate Republicans from hijacking the meaning of the word amnesty, but the public must be made aware about the true impact of an amnesty. The Heritage Foundation concluded that the cost of amnesty would be $2.6 trillion just for increased entitlement program costs. And the number of additional LEGAL immigrants who would join those who were the recipients of amnesty through chain migration, i.e., family reunification, would approach 70 million over a 20-year period, assuming there are only 12 million illegal aliens. We cannot assimilate such numbers. An amnesty would destroy the United States of America with the stroke of a pen.

Conferring rights and privileges upon illegal aliens has a corrosive effect on the Rule of Law, the very foundation of our Republic. It is also a slap in the face to legal immigrants who have followed the rules and obeyed the laws. There are millions of immigrants waiting their turn overseas to enter the U.S. legally and approximately 40 million immigrants living in the U.S., most of whom followed the law. Recent polling by Rasmussen has shown that the American people are calling for increased enforcement of our immigration laws.

The proponents of amnesty are wont to create the false choice between a blanket amnesty and mass deportation of 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. In reality, we have other choices and alternatives that don’t reward people who have broken our laws with the right to stay and work here and an eventual path to citizenship. The 12 to 20 million illegal aliens did not enter this country overnight and they will not leave overnight. Attrition through enforcement works. We have empirical data from Georgia, Oklahoma, Alabama, and Arizona proving that it does.

67 posted on 11/14/2012 8:48:16 AM PST by kabar
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To: kabar

First, I made no excuses for their behavior...simply stated facts...

Second, I’ve never advocated amnesty, you somehow attributed that to me.....

I’ve have stated we need to deal with the aftermath in a sane and humane matter.

I didn’t specify what manner....

What I don’t believe helpful is other conservatives beating their chest and stating round them all up and put them in cattle cars and ship them across the border.

That ain’t going to happen....

So how can we have a sane, conservative and humane approach to this problem? We need to get ahead of the liberals on this issue otherwise from a practical political perspective, otherwise we will never be in power again, EVER.

I’d like to see the level of discourse raised to practical solutions founded in conservative principals not the vitriolic chest beating of some....


68 posted on 11/14/2012 9:35:16 AM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: nevergore

you will never get it. Your post is utter arrogant pablum.


69 posted on 11/14/2012 9:42:24 AM PST by sand88
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To: sand88

Wow, great response! You really raised the level of discourse....

It’s obvious your intellectual abilities are far beyond mine and everyone else on this forum....

Why don’t you go play in the DU sandbox were you can meet your intellectual equals....


70 posted on 11/14/2012 9:58:46 AM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: nevergore
First, I made no excuses for their behavior...simply stated facts...

Really? You said, We” meaning Americans, created this mess with illegals on our Southern border." Do you think the lawbreakers deserve some culpability for their lawless behavior and disregard for our laws that extend far beyond just illegal entry.

And we have states like AZ and Alabama that are being sued by the federal government for enforcing immigration laws while sanctuary states and localities are being given a pass.

I’ve have stated we need to deal with the aftermath in a sane and humane matter.

This is code for amnesty or excusing lawbreakers. What do you mean by the word "humane?" In general, do you think our legal system treats people humanely?

What I don’t believe helpful is other conservatives beating their chest and stating round them all up and put them in cattle cars and ship them across the border. That ain’t going to happen....

Give me a break. This is the language of the Left. I have not heard any Rep of any note or authority recommending this. It is a strawman created by the Left that tries to create the image of the Holocaust. It also is a way of saying that we only have two ways to treat the 12-20 million lawbreakers--mass deportation or a blanket amnesty. Obviously, as I have indicated in earlier posts, there are other alternatives, i.e., attrtion thru enforcement.

So how can we have a sane, conservative and humane approach to this problem? We need to get ahead of the liberals on this issue otherwise from a practical political perspective, otherwise we will never be in power again, EVER.

I provided you a plan. Do you have a problem with it? If so, what? Immigration, legal and illegal, has changed the demographics of this country forever. It started with the Immigration Act of 1965. No amount of pandering is going to change the electoral impact of those changes. We bring in 1.2 million legal immigrants a year, 87% of whom are minorities as defined by the USG. One in 8 residents of this country is foreign born (the highest it has been in 90 years) compared to 1 in 21 in 1970. Immigrants and minorities vote Democrat two to one.

The reality is that amnesty or the "humane" treatment of the lawbreakers will not win the GOP any votes. It will only hasten the demographic trends now underway that will make the Dems the permanent majority party. It is part of their strategy.

Watch and Listen to this chilling video of Eliseo Medina, SEIU International Executive Vice President on how important amnesty is to their desire to transform America thru the ballot box.

I’d like to see the level of discourse raised to practical solutions founded in conservative principals [sic] not the vitriolic chest beating of some...."

You can create all the strawmen you want. There are practical solutions founded in conservative principles like the one I proposed. Your problem is that you don't like those predicated on the Rule of Law.

71 posted on 11/14/2012 10:08:52 AM PST by kabar
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To: nevergore
Why don’t you go play in the DU sandbox were you can meet your intellectual equals..

Are you looking in the mirror as you type this? lol. Other's answered your foolish post well enough. Your post is one of an arrogant elite leftist sounding know it all. I encountered so many like you in college. Have a wonderful day

72 posted on 11/14/2012 10:10:13 AM PST by sand88
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To: nevergore

Just because I leave the door unlocked, doesn’t mean you have an invitation to explore my house or get in my car, much less take my stuff. If you eat a bullet or some buckshot while doing so, it is your fault, and I won’t lose a second of sleep over it.

Same goes for the invading barbarians. Just because the idiots in DC didn’t do their job securing the border doesn’t mean they have an invitation to invade the country, much less settle here. It doesn’t matter one bit whether or not they’re “decent” people.

I have no sympathy for them or their children. Whatever happens to them for invading our country is their fault. After all, they always leave on their own.


73 posted on 11/14/2012 10:20:22 AM PST by Little Ray (I have VOTED AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: kabar

Wow, didn’t realize I was using coded words for Amnesty....did you use your secret decoder ring to parse that from my statement? LOL

Then you accussed me of using the “left’ language.....

Remember, those without a credible argument are simply left with name calling.

Let me be perfectly clear, blanket amnesty is a bad solution, our current way is no solution, deporting them all will politically never happen.

You’ve proposed nothing of substance.....more of the same...non-realistic solutions to a real problem. You state that I’m not supporting the existing law and that I do not overall support the Rule of Law.

You may have been screaming at the Feds the past 50 years enforce the Law but they never listened. BTW, I been screaming at them as well.....Hoe well has that worked out for us? Do you think Eric Holder will all the sudden have an epiphany and enforce immigration policy. Hell, we couldn’t get that under the Bush adminstration....

But we now have the reality of millions of illegals, their legal children(American citizens) and extended families here within our borders and the TOTAL lack of political will to enforce existing law.

So back to my original question. How do we structure a solution that is based in sane, conservative and humane values?

If we do not come up with a solution fast, one is going to be shoved down our throat by the liberals and we will lose this precious country forever.....


74 posted on 11/14/2012 10:32:17 AM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: sand88

Just when I thought you couldn’t self demean yourself further, you exceeded my expectations....


75 posted on 11/14/2012 10:34:44 AM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: Little Ray

Don’t worry, while you are beating your chest and screaming at the TV, the liberals will come up with their own plan, shove it down our throat and we will be hosed....


76 posted on 11/14/2012 10:45:18 AM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: nevergore

Don’t watch TV any more.

The Liberals have already come up with their own plan and shoved it down our throat - Obama implemented the DREAM Act through executive orders, remember? And they have implemented Amnesty through non-enforcement of immigration laws. The ‘Pubbies in the House preparing to support Amnesty is just icing on on the crap cake we’re being served.

So, don’t worry. We’re already so hosed it isn’t funny. I’m sure you’re enjoying it.

BTW: you do know when most historians agree that Rome “fell” right? It was when they extended Roman citizenship (something that non-Romans previously had to EARN) to all the non-Romans within the Empire. It will be the same for us.


77 posted on 11/14/2012 11:03:13 AM PST by Little Ray (I have VOTED AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: nevergore
Let me be perfectly clear, blanket amnesty is a bad solution, our current way is no solution, deporting them all will politically never happen.

I gave you the solution. Attrition thru enforcement. And yes deportion is part of it. It is part of our laws. There is not a country in the world that does not deport illegal aliens.

You’ve proposed nothing of substance.....more of the same...non-realistic solutions to a real problem. You state that I’m not supporting the existing law and that I do not overall support the Rule of Law.

Are you nuts? I gave you plenty of substance and realistic solutions. Could you be specific as to what is not realistic about the plan I have proposed.

You may have been screaming at the Feds the past 50 years enforce the Law but they never listened. BTW, I been screaming at them as well.....Hoe well has that worked out for us? Do you think Eric Holder will all the sudden have an epiphany and enforce immigration policy. Hell, we couldn’t get that under the Bush adminstration....

You are wrong. Did you ever hear of Operation Wetback? Clinton was actually better at enforcing our immigration laws than Bush 43. And our legal immigration policies are far more important and impactful than illegal immigration.

But we now have the reality of millions of illegals, their legal children(American citizens) and extended families here within our borders and the TOTAL lack of political will to enforce existing law.

You are wrong again. The political will has manifested itself at the local level as more and more states pass laws to discourage and disincentivize illegal immigration. There have been a number of members of Congress who have taken up the mantle of enforcing our immigration laws and penalizing employers who hire illegal aliens. Cutting off tghe job magnet is essential to reining in illegal immigration.

So back to my original question. How do we structure a solution that is based in sane, conservative and humane values?

I gave you a plan/solution. You have failed to address even a single item. You really are just bloviating and really don't want to get into substance and specifics. It is a waste of time.

78 posted on 11/14/2012 11:32:03 AM PST by kabar
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To: Little Ray

The executive action just underlines what I been stating....

It was only the liberal’s nose under the tent....

Wait till you see what they send down the pipe regarding illegals....

I am worried and not happy with it; which is why I’m advocating dealing with the issue now and coming up with a decent solution....

Not just waiting for the “crap cake” to be served....


79 posted on 11/14/2012 11:32:07 AM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: kabar

What in your proposed solution WILL NEVER politically happen did you not understand?

You couldn’t get consensus among the Repubs for your solution and you WILL NEVER get the democrats.....

So keep charging that windmill Don Quixote.....and watch as the demoncrats get Amnesty plus more....like, total control of Congress and the Whitehouse for the next 50 years....


80 posted on 11/14/2012 11:49:29 AM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: nevergore

We’ve already got crap cake.

Any amnesty, blanket or otherwise, rewards lawbreaking, undermines the rule of law, and allows illegals to “jump the line” ahead of people who obeyed the law.

Anything the ‘Pubbies want to do will be stopped by the Senate or the President.

The President will do what he darn well pleases using executive orders or his authority over the executive branch. He doesn’t need Congress anymore...

Its pretty much over. Welcome to the Empire.


81 posted on 11/14/2012 11:56:53 AM PST by Little Ray (I have VOTED AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: nevergore
Just when I thought you couldn’t self demean yourself further, you exceeded my expectations....,

coming from you, I take that as a compliment since it seems reality is the opposite of what you perceive! Truly, have a nice day :)

82 posted on 11/14/2012 11:57:33 AM PST by sand88
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To: sand88

And to think I set my expectations so low... :^)

My reality is that Obummer won the election, gained seats in the Senate and House.....I like your reality much better...


83 posted on 11/14/2012 12:17:22 PM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: Little Ray

I haven’t given up the fight yet....

I will not welcome our new overlords.....

I will fight....

We just have to carefully chose our battles and timing...

Solving the illegal issue is a start....I’m willing to wait and see what Rubio proposes....


84 posted on 11/14/2012 12:21:55 PM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: nevergore
You don't know a thing about the immigration issue. Do a little research on what was in the Hagel-Martinez bill that passed the Senate or McCain-Kennedy. Many of those elements I proposed are actually part of comprehensive immigration reform.

SCOTUS has already upheld the AZ E-verify law. A number of Reps have been proposing many of the other elements of my plan. The major stumbling block has been amnesty.

Again, you continue on with you rant without specifics. Name one element of my plan that WILL NEVER politically happen. Nor do you propose any specific action that must be done to prevent the outcome you allegedly don't want.

Legal immigration reform will not be difficult if it is approached in the form of jobs and skills. Our immigration policies are not serving our national interests and making things worse in terms of unemployment and welfare costs. CA is the canary in the coal mine.

In any event, you are a waste of time. You are not serious about the issue and your arrogrance is only exceeded by your ignorance. Bye.

85 posted on 11/14/2012 12:26:39 PM PST by kabar
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To: nevergore

Same thing he already proposed: Amnesty.


86 posted on 11/14/2012 12:55:35 PM PST by Little Ray (I have VOTED AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: kabar

You’re wrong about me, my arrogance can easily exceed my ignorance......depends on the day....

No immigration policy is going to make it to legislation without a path to citizenship. Not Amnesty, a long multi-year path that requires background checks, fees citizenship classes, testing, taxes etc......

Your plan requires comprehensive enforcement, by who? Eric Holder?

It’s not that I don’t like your plan, it’s just not current political reality....

You take it so personally....


87 posted on 11/14/2012 1:36:11 PM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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