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OWS buying and canceling debt
Rolling Jubilee ^ | Recently | n/a

Posted on 11/14/2012 5:55:12 AM PST by ksen

From the top of their website:

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A bailout of the people by the people

Rolling Jubilee is a Strike Debt project that buys debt for pennies on the dollar, but instead of collecting it, abolishes it. Together we can liberate debtors at random through a campaign of mutual support, good will, and collective refusal. Debt resistance is just the beginning. Join us as we imagine and create a new world based on the common good, not Wall Street profits.
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TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: buyingdebt; debt; ows
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OWS does something!

I know people will have issues with the language used on that page but I like this idea and hope it gains steam.

As a society we really do need to rethink the idea of debt.

1 posted on 11/14/2012 5:55:14 AM PST by ksen
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To: ksen

As long as it’s their money I have no problem with this at all.

Not much different than the stories about folks going to stores and paying off random people’s lay-away debts. Just a new sort of charity.

Frankly, I doubt they are gonna get much support from the liberal side. Libs would rather pass a law that makes debt simply “disappear.” Damn the consequences.


2 posted on 11/14/2012 6:00:55 AM PST by JoeDetweiler
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To: ksen
As a society we really do need to rethink the idea of debt.

As in, not getting into debt in the first place, or defaulting on it and hoping someone lets you off the hook?

3 posted on 11/14/2012 6:03:34 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Mmmm, because those are the only two things that happen.


4 posted on 11/14/2012 6:05:38 AM PST by ksen
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To: ksen

Here’s the thing about forgiven debt: the IRS considers it income.

So the debtor needs to pay income tax on the forgiven amount.

So now these folks will have IRS problems.


5 posted on 11/14/2012 6:05:44 AM PST by Ted Grant
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To: ksen; cripplecreek
Don't worry, the Golden Dawn Party will be there to help you.

Just make sure you remember who helped you and who left you in the cold when time comes to support a Political Party.

Occupy Wall Street Helped me when no one else would! That is why I am voting for their Candidate.

6 posted on 11/14/2012 6:06:11 AM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: ksen
Mmmm, because those are the only two things that happen.

Can't come up with a third? I gave the two.

7 posted on 11/14/2012 6:07:26 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: JoeDetweiler

TBF Iceland made a law to make some household debt “disappear” during the financial crisis and it’s worked great for their country and economy.


8 posted on 11/14/2012 6:08:00 AM PST by ksen
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To: 1rudeboy

You should send your advice to the banks since they are the ones getting their debts cancelled by other peoples’ money.


9 posted on 11/14/2012 6:09:33 AM PST by ksen
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To: ksen; cripplecreek
Damn Picture disappeaed on me!

Lets try another one.


10 posted on 11/14/2012 6:10:06 AM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: ksen
As a society we really do need to rethink the idea of debt.

Yes, it should be limited to those who can repay.

Or debt prison.

Honk if I paid your mortgage!

11 posted on 11/14/2012 6:10:28 AM PST by DUMBGRUNT (The best is the enemy of the good!)
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To: ksen
How is this NOT a scam?

How can debt be made to just disappear?
12 posted on 11/14/2012 6:11:47 AM PST by The Louiswu (it's all downhilll from here!!!)
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To: ksen

Of course, without credit, we don’t have an economy (as it currently operates.)


13 posted on 11/14/2012 6:16:10 AM PST by IamConservative (The soul of my lifes journey is Liberty!)
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To: ksen

The debt is no longer on the books of the bank, if the bank sold it for pennies on the dollar. What is your Third Way? /snort


14 posted on 11/14/2012 6:17:27 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: The Louiswu
How can debt be made to just disappear?

Creditors sell "bad debt" to collections agencies for pennies on the dollar. The creditor gets something, and no longer cares what happens to the debt. It's no longer their problem. The collections agency is essentially gambling; it's betting that it can collect more on the debt than it paid for it. That's apparently a good bet; collections agencies continue to exist.

The OWSers are apparently buying debt for pennies on the dollar (same as the collections agencies) but then "forgving" the debt instead of attempting to collect (some of) it.

15 posted on 11/14/2012 6:17:55 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ksen

If creditors were willing to sell debt for pennies on the dollar then why wouldn’t the debtors just buy and retire it? If the debt is secured, then there’s no way they would do this. If it’s unsecured it’s possible.


16 posted on 11/14/2012 6:18:10 AM PST by circlecity
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To: The Louiswu

I think if they buy it, it’s up to them if they want to collect on it or not.


17 posted on 11/14/2012 6:19:44 AM PST by Nickname
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To: ksen

Imagine! A world without currency or consequences or bad weather! Would Reagan call this evil?


18 posted on 11/14/2012 6:20:40 AM PST by conservativeimage.com (Civil War II)
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To: circlecity

I understood your point, but it is still funny to imagine a debtor buying a huge bundle of debt just to retire his own.


19 posted on 11/14/2012 6:20:40 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: ArrogantBustard
So I can run up a mountain of debt, pay it off for pennies on the dollar and the Rolling Jubilee just refuses to pay it off. I get a bunch of sweet swag for almost nothing?!

Is that how this works?
20 posted on 11/14/2012 6:22:25 AM PST by The Louiswu (it's all downhilll from here!!!)
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To: The Louiswu
It is not really disappearing.

They are basically setting up a type of consolidation agency. Like an agency they will renegotiate hopefully for pennies on the dollar. What the debtor would be avoiding is the consequence of bankruptcy.

There are legal ramifications and IRS consequences to doing this. Although as a group if it is something they want to do...I say let them. The life learning experience will be good for them.

21 posted on 11/14/2012 6:22:56 AM PST by EBH (0bama is guilty of willful neglect of duty.)
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To: The Louiswu

Debt can be made to disappear by someone else buying it and then forgiving it.


22 posted on 11/14/2012 6:25:00 AM PST by ksen
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To: 1rudeboy

what are you babbling about?


23 posted on 11/14/2012 6:26:00 AM PST by ksen
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To: EBH
Well I must be a chump because I thought that if I buy something on credit, I should ACTUALLY pay that money back or return the item if I can't afford it. But now, with this new math...POOOF, I can make buy way more that I can ever hope to afford and just watch the debt go away.

I must be a chump because I just don't understand this at all.
24 posted on 11/14/2012 6:27:31 AM PST by The Louiswu (it's all downhilll from here!!!)
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To: ksen

I’m sorry, you gave me the impression that you had some superior knowledge. All you have is Iceland.


25 posted on 11/14/2012 6:27:53 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: The Louiswu
So I can run up a mountain of debt, pay it off for pennies on the dollar and the Rolling Jubilee just refuses to pay it off. I get a bunch of sweet swag for almost nothing?!

Is that how this works?

I take it you're not a big fan of the biblical "Jubilee"?

26 posted on 11/14/2012 6:28:20 AM PST by ksen
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To: DUMBGRUNT

They’re right, even though they don’t know HOW they’re right.

Our currency system is debt-backed instead of commodity backed.

That isn’t sustainable.


27 posted on 11/14/2012 6:29:11 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: 1rudeboy

Iceland is all I’ve mentioned not all I have. I also have 1930s America in my bag of evidence.

And yeah, if you didn’t know about it then my knowledge in this area is superior than yours is.


28 posted on 11/14/2012 6:30:20 AM PST by ksen
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To: ksen
I'm not in slavery if that's what you mean. No one can force me to do anything I don't want to do, even at the point of a gun or threat of death.

I enter into my debts of my own free will and with full knowledge that they MUST be paid off. Skipping out on debt is wrong I don't care how it is phrased.
29 posted on 11/14/2012 6:31:33 AM PST by The Louiswu (it's all downhilll from here!!!)
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To: ksen
As a society we really do need to rethink the idea of debt.

As in, not getting into debt in the first place, or defaulting on it and hoping someone lets you off the hook?

Exactly. If you can't afford it - don't buy it.
My dad was big on this. He warned us about debt even when we were little kids. The only things my parents ever got on credit were the house and the car.
My parents were small children during the depression and grew up during the recovery. All those who were deep in debt lost everything. Those who were debt free went on virtually unscathed. My parents learned from that, and went on to teach us, because no one knows what the future holds.

If the OWS kids want to pay off each others debt, fine, but good luck with that. I just don't see it happening. Liberals are great when it comes to giving away other peoples money, but don't even think about touching theirs.
I think these people are just day dreaming if they think they're going to financially support each other. They can't even support themselves.

At least they're thinking about doing it without forcing others to carry their water. This is a move in the right direction.

30 posted on 11/14/2012 6:32:37 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: ksen
Iceland apart from its geographical advantages, has half the population of Denver, Colorado.

So if you have some superior knowledge, let's see it.

31 posted on 11/14/2012 6:33:13 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: IamConservative
Of course, without credit, we don’t have an economy (as it currently operates.)

Of course. That's another reason this is a good idea since one of the main problems holding the economy back are households trying to deleverage. Relieve some of that debt pressure and the urgency to deleverage goes away. And this in turn frees up more disposable income to use in the economy.

32 posted on 11/14/2012 6:34:42 AM PST by ksen
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To: 1rudeboy

Way to ignore the 1930s America example I gave you in the post you responded to. Was 1930s America half the population of Denver, Colorado too?


33 posted on 11/14/2012 6:37:00 AM PST by ksen
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To: ksen

Gotta give the OWS guys behind this some credit for a decent idea (for their philosophy). I doubt they have the resources to make this more than just a PR stunt in the long run, but give them credit for using the system “against itself”, so to speak.

That’s more creativity and initiative than I would have expected from that lot.


34 posted on 11/14/2012 6:37:24 AM PST by kevkrom (If a wise man has an argument with a foolish man, the fool only rages or laughs...)
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To: ksen

My bet is that most of these folks who get a “get out debt free” card will just get back into debt in a very short amount of time. Giving someone a fish or teaching them to fish, which is better? Giving them a handout or making them work to get out of debt? Which is better?


35 posted on 11/14/2012 6:38:35 AM PST by The Louiswu (it's all downhilll from here!!!)
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To: The Louiswu

Debt isn’t some sacred thing that must be bowed down to. Stop making debt your idol.

http://www.amazon.com/Debt-First-5-000-Years/dp/1933633867


36 posted on 11/14/2012 6:39:22 AM PST by ksen
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To: The Louiswu

Waiting for you to turn your sneering onto businesses and banks that do whatever they can to wiggle out of debt.


37 posted on 11/14/2012 6:41:00 AM PST by ksen
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To: ksen
Writing "I also have 1930s America in my bag of evidence," is the equivalent of writing, "I have 1930s House Atreides of the planet Arrakis in my bag of evidence."
38 posted on 11/14/2012 6:41:14 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: ksen
Debt is not my idol slick. It's a personal obligation you freely take on. Stop trying to walk away from your obligations, stand up like a man and accept responsibility for what you have created (your own debt).

You don't want debt? Pay cash.
39 posted on 11/14/2012 6:42:25 AM PST by The Louiswu (it's all downhilll from here!!!)
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To: The Louiswu

ok


40 posted on 11/14/2012 6:46:57 AM PST by ksen
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To: ksen

I can hardly believe I am saying this....but OWS is finally doing something that I don’t think I object to.

If they want to raise funds, buy debt for pennies on the dollar and forgive it, that is totally up to them. Could even be constructive in some cases.


41 posted on 11/14/2012 6:48:25 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: The Louiswu
The difference between what you owe and what you pay might be considered "income" ... you could rack up a substantial tax assessment from the IRS.

Beware ... there's still no free lunch.

I'm a bit dubious of the banks selling you your own bad debt ... they wouldn't like the precedent.

42 posted on 11/14/2012 6:52:44 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ksen

Nice PR move. Actually I like this idea. They should match donors to debtors. Get a picture for your fridge.


43 posted on 11/14/2012 6:54:02 AM PST by TigerClaws
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To: Buckeye McFrog
There's nothing wrong with the idea, and it's perfectly legal. And it will help some people . . . but to extrapolate from it that all people can be helped is utopian BS.
44 posted on 11/14/2012 6:54:57 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Writing "I also have 1930s America in my bag of evidence," is the equivalent of writing, "I have 1930s House Atreides of the planet Arrakis in my bag of evidence."

I'm not doing your homework for you.

45 posted on 11/14/2012 7:03:11 AM PST by ksen
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To: ksen
Then don't say that I'm ignoring evidence that you will not present yourself. Not too bright, are ya'?
46 posted on 11/14/2012 7:05:12 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
but to extrapolate from it that all people can be helped is utopian BS.

No it's not. Again, I refer you back to the biblical Jubilee holiday. I guess god didn't understand economics enough to know he couldn't help everybody.

47 posted on 11/14/2012 7:05:19 AM PST by ksen
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To: 1rudeboy

http://www.nber.org/books/harr51-1

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=home+owner%27s+loan+corporation&oq=home+owner%27s+loan+corporation&gs_l=hp.3..0i10l4.2568.6065.1.6657.19.17.0.0.0.0.536.2673.7j8j4-1j1.17.0.les%3Bcpmergendc..0.0...1.1.1T5bW3tvGsw&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=da7dce54d6d4cfaf&bpcl=38626820&biw=1920&bih=985


48 posted on 11/14/2012 7:10:12 AM PST by ksen
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To: 1rudeboy

http://exopermaculture.com/2012/04/26/about-that-iceland-mortgage-debt-forgiveness-story/

http://readersupportednews.org/pm-section/431-foreclosure/11390-debt-forgiveness-the-imf-iceland-and-the-us-in-the-1930s-all-say-it-works


49 posted on 11/14/2012 7:11:27 AM PST by ksen
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To: ksen

Anyone who has their debnt cancelled by OWS must, by law, report that as income in the year that the forgiveness occurs and pay income tax on it. I wonder if OWS will report them to the IRS to collect the bounty?


50 posted on 11/14/2012 7:12:56 AM PST by RayBob (If guns kill people, can I blame misspelled words on my keyboard?)
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