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Should Texas be allowed to secede from the union?
CNN ^ | November 14th, 2012 | Jack Cafferty

Posted on 11/15/2012 9:42:16 AM PST by Pfesser

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Many of the comments to this article said that the supporters would be tried for treason. I say no. After the Civil War, not even Jefferson Davis was tried for treason. The North was afraid that they would lose in court what they had won on the battlefield.
1 posted on 11/15/2012 9:42:24 AM PST by Pfesser
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To: Pfesser

Perhaps they could leave though and annex some others!


2 posted on 11/15/2012 9:45:26 AM PST by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
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To: Pfesser

It’s not treasonous to peacably petition the government for secession.

If Texas goes, it needs to take a bunch of other states with it because having it out of the Union would mean permanent Democrat control of the remaining 49 states into eternity. I’d like to see the South as a whole peel off.


3 posted on 11/15/2012 9:45:54 AM PST by paglia444
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To: Pfesser
Yes. We have a right to seek independence and freedom from this evil,tyrannical, communist regime in Washington DC. We have to secede.

Anybody here think that this evil communist Obama will not try to be dictator for life? All Stalinists do this as Chavez of venezuela did. Chavez,Sadamm Husein had elections too. Obama marxist did better than Chavez and Saddam in many counties in Ohio etc.

4 posted on 11/15/2012 9:47:35 AM PST by rurgan (give laws an expiration date:so the congress has to review every 4 years to see if needed)
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To: Pfesser

If our government doesn’t intend to secure our border and plans to give amnesty to illegals living here now, the problem will never end.

If our government helps Mexicans in Mexico learn about our food stamp program and we let non-citizens use our entitlement programs, healthcare, welfare and all.

Then we collect taxes from Mexico and Mexican citizens or they let Texas secede and enjoy the same benefits and sovereignty as Mexico.


5 posted on 11/15/2012 9:48:34 AM PST by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheel barrow)
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To: Pfesser
Should Texas be allowed to secede from the union?

"Be allowed"?
If we decide to go, we should just go and screw getting "permission"

6 posted on 11/15/2012 9:49:27 AM PST by grobdriver
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To: Pfesser
No, Texas shouldn't be allowed to secede from the union.

The small but densely populated Obama loving areas of the country should be turned over to the Red Chinese as special administrative regions until they pay off the debt Obama ran up. Without any help form the rest of us.

7 posted on 11/15/2012 9:49:55 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Pfesser

1) Hold a referendum. If a huge majority want to secede, I don’t see why they can’t be allowed to peacefully do so. After all, countries like the Czech Republic and Slovakia did so peacefully. Singapore seceded from Malaysia over 50 years ago and both countries are thriving.

2) There’s a new entity that just voted to join the union — PUERTO RICO.

So, the USA will still have 50 states and the flag will not change.

3) For that matter, if Obama really wants 57 states, I can see the following scenarios : Divide California into 3 states. Allow Long Island ( which has an existing secession movement ) to secede from new York State. Divide Pennsylvania into West Penn and East Penn (Where Philly is located ). Heck, if we can have a West Virginia and a North and South Dakota and North and South Carolina, I don’t see how we can’t have something similar elsewhere.


8 posted on 11/15/2012 9:50:23 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Pfesser

There gonna loose their damage deposit if they go.


9 posted on 11/15/2012 9:50:46 AM PST by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: Pfesser

IIRC, Texas at the time was a sovereign Republic that freely agreed to annexation by popular vote of its citizens.

It was not a recognized US Possession as a territory. This is much different than the circumstances of incorporation of the other states. It seems to me that which is entered into freely, can be exited freely.


10 posted on 11/15/2012 9:50:54 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Pfesser

“When in the course of human events.....” A state that is forbidden to leave lives in slavery, not freedom.

Why was it fine for the colonies to leave Britain, but wrong for the South to leave the USA?

The rule is, if you win the war, you don’t have to be consistent.


11 posted on 11/15/2012 9:51:51 AM PST by txrefugee
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To: paglia444
Secede from the Union? Some in Tennessee say aye
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/nov/13/secede-from-the-union-some-in-tennessee-say-aye/?comments_id=2432946
20 States Now Working on Process to Secede from the Union
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/405077/20121115/20-states-now-working-process-secede-union.htm#.UKUqf4ZXLIU
Thousands call for Georgia to secede
http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/2012/nov/15/thousands-call-georgia-secede/
12 posted on 11/15/2012 9:52:58 AM PST by Pfesser (I miss President Reagan.)
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To: Pfesser
What Union?

When are we going to consider that there are two Americas and settle the problem once and for all?

America's Elite Class New Normal:

I remember.

The 1960s Marxist-Alinsky campus radical, psycho spoiled brats were celebrated in the establishment MSM as the most intelligent generation ever!. They are now arguably that very establishment that praised them and they hold themselves and their ideological issue in even higher regard.

A house divided against itself cannot stand. [it won't fall but it] will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing, or all the other.


13 posted on 11/15/2012 9:53:28 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: Pfesser

1. The Constitution does not prohibit secession. The legal argument boils down to this: 1. The Constitution does not mention secession. In any way. 2. The Tenth Amendment says: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Now I don’t have a Ph.D. in logic, but even I can figure out that if something is not mentioned, then, according to the 10th Amendment, it isn’t prohibited to the states. In fact, it is the opposite of prohibited. Now I know that the Supreme Court says no secession allowed, which means the federal government has declared that you can’t escape the federal government. Gee, that’s no shocker. So, sure, if you believe that the federal government should be the last word on what the federal government can and cannot do, then that’s fine. Just don’t pretend that we have constitutional government. If the federal government gets to decide what the Constitution says, then the Constitution is nothing more than a suggestion box for the feds.
2. The Civil War did not “settle” the issue. Well, it settled the issue in the way that I settled the matter of ownership of that Steve Garvey baseball card when I beat up that other kid and took it. (OK, that never happened, but you get my point.) Secession was never settled beyond the federal government’s assertion that it has the right to kill people who try to exercise their rights protected by the Tenth Amendment.

3. Secession is treason/unAmerican/craaaazy/for slavers only. Prior to the confederacy, there were some slaveowners who got together and seceded from their government. They were called Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. If you’re opposed to the secession of 1776, then that’s fine, you might be consistent on this issue, but if you’re one of these right-wing pundits who thinks the Declaration of Independence should be read aloud every July 4, and then says that secession is nutso, you might try actually reading that document you profess to love.
The Declaration makes a simple argument:
1. Humans have rights from the Creator
2. Governments exist to secure those rights (a debatable assertion but we’ll roll with it.)
3. When the government fails to secure those rights, we can ditch it and start our own government.
That’s pretty much all it says. If you thought that was true in 1776, when tax rates were 1% and there was no such thing as a the EPA or the FBI or the IRS, why is it not true now? Because we’re so much more free now? And, no, the Declaration did not say that the government is free to violate rights as long as people get to vote on it.
The Declaration establishes that there’s no such thing as treason, and a free government requires the assumption of just secession.

Thus the whole Revolution [of 1775–1783] turned upon, asserted, and, in theory, established, the right of each and every man, at his discretion, to release himself from the support of the government under which he had lived. And this principle was asserted, not as a right peculiar to themselves, or to that time, or as applicable only to the government then existing; but as a universal right of all men, at all times, and under all circumstances


14 posted on 11/15/2012 9:54:45 AM PST by all the best (`~!)
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To: txrefugee

The rule is, if you win the war, you don’t have to be consistent.”

Sort of like who gets to decide on the definition of “war crimes”.....


15 posted on 11/15/2012 9:55:19 AM PST by ConservativeDude
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To: Pfesser
some_text
16 posted on 11/15/2012 9:55:27 AM PST by MichaelAsher54
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To: Pfesser

They should not even need to ask permission


17 posted on 11/15/2012 9:55:43 AM PST by clamper1797 (I mourn for the America I grew up in ..fought for ..and loved ..July 4 1776- June 28 2012)
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To: SeekAndFind
Divide Pennsylvania into West Penn and East Penn (Where Philly is located ).

No need for a separate East Penn. Just cede the Obama voting cluster counties from Philadelphia to Scranton along the NJ line to New Jersey.

New Jersey is a pissant state whose main economic function is to serve as a garbage dump and warehouse for NYC. The East Penn area as described would be a natural fit.

Without Scranton and Philly in the mix, the rest of us could easily outvote Pittsburgh and Erie.

18 posted on 11/15/2012 9:58:54 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Pfesser
Sam Houston was pretty clear on the subject:
"I beseech those whose piety will permit them reverently to petition, that they will pray for this union, and ask that He who buildeth up and pulleth down nations will, the mercy preserve and unite us. For a Nation divided against itself cannot stand. I wish, if this Union must be dissolved, that its ruins may be the monument of my grave, and the graves of my family. I wish no epitaph to be written to tell that I survive the ruin of this glorious Union."
19 posted on 11/15/2012 9:59:40 AM PST by drew
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To: paglia444
Like I've said before, at this point this is merely mental exercise. In the near future, who knows.

Anyway... Not Florida and Virginia. I'd say Oklahoma, Louisiana, maybe Arkansas, maybe Mississippi and New Mexico, although the poverty in Mississippi would potentially be a drag on the new nation. Tennessee is just too far--no way would the government allow a new country to reach that deep into its heartland and partially sever the old US. The new country would also have to claim a fair chunk of the guld for the oil and such. A strong alliance with Alaska (hey, if Texas why not Alaska, its plenty big and far enough away) would also be good, allowing access to northern areas.

20 posted on 11/15/2012 9:59:47 AM PST by Wyrd bi ful ard (Gone Galt, 11/07/12)
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To: grobdriver

That’s what I was going to say; secession is not something one gets permission for.


21 posted on 11/15/2012 10:00:01 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: all the best

Absolutely and well said! Exactly! Well done.

To agree with your main point about our own Independence -

It was illegal and high treason to rebel against the lawful, legal authority of the Crown of England under King George III and to defy his edicts and ‘laws’.

It was an even greater act of sedition and treason to suggest that the Colonies were of right, ought to be free and independent states from the Crown. We would define that today as secession. The Founders seceded from the Union established with England for over 150 years before July 2nd 1776.

It was settled by our Founders who took a risk of death for treason to declare that the Crown no longer had any legal authority over them. Once the legal authority was imposing tyranny and usurping the rights of liberty granted by God, the prince no longer had authority under God to rule over a free people.

Once the State/Crown - made itself higher than God’s Laws, then the people are no longer obligated to submit to such authority - and have, by right the duty to throw off such government and secure new guards for their liberty.

Secession is what our Founders initiated. It was a risk with a low chance of success - but it was decided by enough Godly and principled men that liberty was more important than life in chains and risked death to secure God’s authority as sovereign over their lives.

So why should we be any different just because the federal tyranny says, like the King of England, that Independence from their rule and authority is treason and unlawful?

If we would die free men, then their courts, congress and His Heinous Obama - have no power over us that we who are under the Law of Nature’s God, are required to submit to.

All they have is the ability to impose their tyranny by brute force and punishment. If we submit to such authority then we have broken the First Commandment and the Lord of Hosts is no longer our Sovereign.

If the Creator is our Sovereign - then we have as a duty to refuse, resist and not comply with those acts of tyranny being imposed by the threat of force.

If the Chinese invaded and put a gun to your head and said “submit to us or else!” would you cower - or resist? There is NO DIFFERENCE between a foreign enemy that would put a gun to your head and that of your family while confiscating your property - and the Domestic federal enemy who is doing the same damn thing.

They have no power over a free people except that which the people willingly surrender to them. Their laws, orders, decrees and rules are no longer of any authority over a people they intend to subjugate.

Do not comply. Refuse. Resist. Die free.

And that is what it may come to.


22 posted on 11/15/2012 10:00:17 AM PST by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Pfesser

I would sign a Petetion to have the bluist of Blue states to secede.


23 posted on 11/15/2012 10:00:17 AM PST by Leep (Are you smarter than a 7th grade math student and or Barack 0bama?)
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To: Pfesser

Quitters!


24 posted on 11/15/2012 10:00:17 AM PST by equaviator (There's nothing like the universe to bring you down to earth.)
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To: drew

Would Sam have let Mexicans overrun his state? Texas will be lost forever in twenty years. It’s now or never.


25 posted on 11/15/2012 10:02:07 AM PST by TigerClaws
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To: Pfesser

Texas is a big State, but I doubt even Texas could hold all of the people who would be leaving the US for citizenship in Texas.


26 posted on 11/15/2012 10:02:14 AM PST by Venturer
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To: Pfesser
Photobucket
27 posted on 11/15/2012 10:04:37 AM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church shows up at your funeral)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

I agree about Alaska: it would be a natural fit for a new union. One thing to remember about poor states like Ole Miss: a lot of the poor are blacks who would be upset about secession because they want to live under a black Prez. Give them the option to load up their stuff and head on up north. They could repopulate Detroit, for example. Then whites in Mississippi would be left to join the new Union.


28 posted on 11/15/2012 10:06:00 AM PST by paglia444
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To: Pfesser

Can’t imagine revolutionairies petitioning to anyone for permission revolutionary.

Is that the way we did it in the American Revolution?

A fraction of the people were FOR the American revolution, a fraction against, and those in the middle talked it to death.

Seems the FOR’s didn’t care, didn’t ask, but did it anyway and won.


29 posted on 11/15/2012 10:06:58 AM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: Pfesser
"...But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

LONG OVERDUE.

30 posted on 11/15/2012 10:07:47 AM PST by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: Mouton

Problem is - and Independent Texas will have enemies on two sides

Mexico on the South, and the Federales on the North.


31 posted on 11/15/2012 10:09:02 AM PST by PGR88
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To: equaviator

No. Beginners.


32 posted on 11/15/2012 10:09:28 AM PST by Pfesser (I miss President Reagan.)
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To: Pfesser
I haven't seen any polling on the issue, but I would be shocked if even 10% of Texans want to sever their bonds with their country, the USA. Texans are as patriotic today as they ever were and very few will become associated with any movement predicated on hatred of the USA. I just hope that this anti-USA secession talk doesn't tarnish the patriotic credentials of the conservative movement.

Texans love the NFL and Texans love America. They're not going anywhere.

33 posted on 11/15/2012 10:09:38 AM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Pfesser

No.


34 posted on 11/15/2012 10:13:03 AM PST by RIghtwardHo
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To: Venturer

That’s perhaps the biggest truth! Some other states need to come along so we have enough room for everyone!


35 posted on 11/15/2012 10:13:03 AM PST by myrabach
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To: Venturer

That’s perhaps the biggest truth! Some other states need to come along so we have enough room for everyone!


36 posted on 11/15/2012 10:13:21 AM PST by myrabach
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To: Pfesser

Why does CNN have their collective panties in a bunch over this when the MSM in general has ignored the “reconquista” and Atzlan movements for years?


37 posted on 11/15/2012 10:13:21 AM PST by pfflier
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To: Mouton

Leave, annex and reconquer. Sounds good to me.


38 posted on 11/15/2012 10:14:08 AM PST by mkboyce
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To: Pfesser

It is not treasonous to be a patriot when one sees the constitution tread upon


39 posted on 11/15/2012 10:14:23 AM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: PGR88
Problem is - and Independent Texas will have enemies on two sides Mexico on the South, and the Federales on the North.

Yes, but Texas would have freedom to actually secure its own border and deport illegal aliens, to say, California.
40 posted on 11/15/2012 10:14:48 AM PST by altsehastiin
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To: grobdriver
If we decide to go, we should just go and screw getting "permission"

True that.

41 posted on 11/15/2012 10:14:54 AM PST by humblegunner
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To: Pfesser

CNN laughs at them, they love stories like this, they fuel the flames, boycott cable news!


42 posted on 11/15/2012 10:15:03 AM PST by IslamE (epiphany)
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To: Pfesser

Secession is a human right. One does not need permission from anyone to excercise a human right.


43 posted on 11/15/2012 10:16:14 AM PST by altsehastiin
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To: SeekAndFind

Split Illinois into “Chicago” and “Real Illinois”.


44 posted on 11/15/2012 10:16:14 AM PST by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: Vigilanteman

The dividing of or merging of states is prohibited by the Constitution.


45 posted on 11/15/2012 10:16:34 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Mouton
"Perhaps they could leave though and annex some others!"

TxOkLa...

46 posted on 11/15/2012 10:16:45 AM PST by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: txrefugee

Not yet—only if Obama does something stupid. Like ban guns or religion.


47 posted on 11/15/2012 10:18:11 AM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: paglia444
Yes, that is the catch 22 conservatives always find themselves in. As a conservative do you stick it out in a liberal state to have a voice, or do you flee, but then leave even less conservatives in that state?

As I see it, in time, as hispanics outnumber whites in Texas, that Texas will go Democrat anyways.

48 posted on 11/15/2012 10:18:25 AM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Pfesser

The idea of states seceding now is pure fantasy, and an unpleasant one, at that.

But if you wish to indulge in fantasy, why not pick some better ones? How about expelling states? I don’t know whether this is possible, but perhaps it could be done as a conspiracy.

For example, residents of NJ could secede, and then move out, leaving this sicko state alone, and inhabited only by Obama-supporting zombies. I could enjoy this fantasy for hours at a time.

Another good one: West Virginia was formed in direct violation of the Constitution, which provides that the borders and territory of a state cannot be changed without its consent. So, we get WV and VA to reunite. Presto: no more “battleground” state, but one that would have gone solidly for Romney.

Another: Force (or trick) the New England states to unite into one state, and (presto!) only two corrupt, lying, Obama-supporting senators, instead of the present 10 or 12. The Senate would be Republican.


49 posted on 11/15/2012 10:18:50 AM PST by docbnj
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To: massgopguy

Tell that to Virginia and West Virginia.


50 posted on 11/15/2012 10:22:46 AM PST by Pfesser (I miss President Reagan.)
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