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If the GOPe Were Smart They Would Let Gov. Palin Back Into the Room
Conservatives4Palin ^ | November 15 2012 | Stacy Drake

Posted on 11/15/2012 10:48:44 AM PST by Bratch

If the GOPe Were Smart They Would Let Gov. Palin Back Into the Room

But this is the “party of stupid” we’re talking about, so I won’t hold my breath.

In the wake of the disastrous 2012 election results, there has been a lot of discussion on the right regarding the GOP’s apparent “message” problem. Much of the conversations has focused on immigration issues as a way to bring in new voters. Recently, Charles Krauthammer wrote:

I’ve always been of the “enforcement first” school, with the subsequent promise of legalization. I still think it’s the better policy. But many Hispanics fear that there will be nothing beyond enforcement. So, promise amnesty right up front. Secure the border with guaranteed legalization to follow on the day the four border-state governors affirm that illegal immigration has slowed to a trickle.

Imagine Marco Rubio advancing such a policy on the road to 2016. It would transform the landscape. He’d win the Hispanic vote. Yes, win it. A problem fixable with a single policy initiative is not structural. It is solvable.

It’s going to take much more than that to solve the current issues the GOP has with voters. You can’t pander to one racial demographic and think that will solve all of your problems. The predicament that they find themselves in goes much deeper than a single issue, and it’s based primarily on trust. According to an election night survey released by Breitbart News, Judicial Watch, and Public Opinion Strategies:

Voters’ responses suggest that the American public agrees with conservative policies–but does not trust the Republican Party to implement them.

For example, voters dislike big government, with 71% agreeing (and 49% strongly agreeing) that: “The larger the size of government the more opportunities it creates for possible corruption.” In addition, 85% of voters said they were concerned about corruption in Washington, and 53% described themselves as “very concerned.”

Yet voters do not trust Republicans more than Democrats to deal with corruption. Only 34% said Republicans would do a better job of cleaning up corruption; 37% said Democrats would. That is an indictment of the permanent political class, regardless of party. And despite the President’s talk of cleaning up Washington, his party is not viewed as better able to do so.

So, the Democrats share much of the same issue with voters regarding corruption, but they’re able to squeak enough votes each cycle because they have more credibility on other matters. Here’s a thought. How about for starters, the GOP stop selling out their principles and try to gain some trust back with that 71% who dislike big government? And how does either party address the 85% of voters who are concerned about corruption in Washington, when both of them are compromised in that area? Considering all of the money wasted in Washington on cronies and corruption, these concerns by the vast majority are extremely legitimate.

As I watched the debate go back and forth on the GOP’s message problem after the election, an article written by Anand Giridharadas back in 2011 titled “Some of Sarah Palin’s Ideas Cross the Political Divide” came to mind. In it, he wrote:

[S]omething curious happened when Ms. Palin strode onto the stage last weekend at a Tea Party event in Indianola, Iowa…

She made three interlocking points. First, that the United States is now governed by a “permanent political class,” drawn from both parties, that is increasingly cut off from the concerns of regular people. Second, that these Republicans and Democrats have allied with big business to mutual advantage to create what she called “corporate crony capitalism.” Third, that the real political divide in the United States may no longer be between friends and foes of Big Government, but between friends and foes of vast, remote, unaccountable institutions (both public and private).

In supporting her first point, about the permanent political class, she attacked both parties’ tendency to talk of spending cuts while spending more and more; to stoke public anxiety about a credit downgrade, but take a vacation anyway; to arrive in Washington of modest means and then somehow ride the gravy train to fabulous wealth. She observed that 7 of the 10 wealthiest counties in the United States happen to be suburbs of the nation’s capital.

Her second point, about money in politics, helped to explain the first. The permanent class stays in power because it positions itself between two deep troughs: the money spent by the government and the money spent by big companies to secure decisions from government that help them make more money.

“Do you want to know why nothing ever really gets done?” she said, referring to politicians. “It’s because there’s nothing in it for them. They’ve got a lot of mouths to feed — a lot of corporate lobbyists and a lot of special interests that are counting on them to keep the good times and the money rolling along.”

Because her party has agitated for the wholesale deregulation of money in politics and the unshackling of lobbyists, these will be heard in some quarters as sacrilegious words.

Ms. Palin’s third point was more striking still: in contrast to the sweeping paeans to capitalism and the free market delivered by the Republican presidential candidates whose ranks she has yet to join, she sought to make a distinction between good capitalists and bad ones. The good ones, in her telling, are those small businesses that take risks
and sink and swim in the churning market; the bad ones are well-connected megacorporations that live off bailouts, dodge taxes and profit terrifically while creating no jobs...

“This is not the capitalism of free men and free markets, of innovation and hard work and ethics, of sacrifice and of risk,” she said of the crony variety. She added: “It’s the collusion of big government and big business and big finance to the detriment of all the rest — to the little guys. It’s a slap in the face to our small business owners — the true entrepreneurs, the job creators accounting for 70 percent of the jobs in America.”

Keep in mind that Sarah Palin was told to “leave the room” by none other than Charles Krauthammer, back in 2009. Yet now he tells the Republican Party that in order for it to save it’s hide, they must reward lawbreakers and anoint a man as leader who has engaged in illegally soliciting foreign donations, just as President Obama has also done.

That is not the answer. The answer for the GOP is to clean up its own act and address the real concerns of the majority of Americans, regardless of political affiliation. They can start by not shunning the members of their own party who have the credibility to speak on such matters. Reform in Washington is a winning message and has the potential to bring in voters from nearly every racial, gender, and economic demographic in the country. It isn’t too late for the Republican Party to jump on board, but time is ticking. American voters need a true opposition party to the big-government, tax and spend, corruption plagued Democrats. The GOP establishment would do themselves and the country a favor by allowing people into the room who can credibly push for reform, and by ceasing their own practices of big-government corruption.

Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening anytime soon.


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KEYWORDS: cronycapitalism; palin
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1 posted on 11/15/2012 10:48:48 AM PST by Bratch
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To: Bratch

She can raise money, draw big crowds, and get the base fired up. Palin for chair of the RNC!! That is where
the changes need to be made, within the Republican Party
organization itself.


2 posted on 11/15/2012 10:52:17 AM PST by Maine Mariner
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To: Bratch

“But many Hispanics fear that there will be nothing beyond enforcement.”

Funny - Americans fear that there will be nothing beyond amnesty.


3 posted on 11/15/2012 10:53:08 AM PST by MichaelCorleone ('We the People' can and will take this country back...starting today.)
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To: MichaelCorleone

she QUIT her job as governor to become a TV celebrity.....
enough said......


4 posted on 11/15/2012 10:57:31 AM PST by Vinomori
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To: Bratch

The idea that once the GOP goes along with what everyone knows the Democrats have wanted all along, Hispanics will vote Republican out of gratitude is idiotic.

Hispanics on average, as demonstrated by the politics in their home countries, have leftist politics to start with. Layer on the welfare in various forms that the majority receive, generation after generation, as well as affirmative-action preferences as far as the eye can see, and you’ve got Democrats by the tens of millions.


5 posted on 11/15/2012 10:57:54 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: Bratch
I love Palin, but Palin’s supporters are going to have to stop making excuses for her. If Palin wants to win she has to be all in it.

Palin is running against history - Only one losing VP candidate has been elected President and that was FDR (NB - Nixon was not a losing VP, he was 2-0 in VP races) and her negaives are still high.

6 posted on 11/15/2012 10:58:09 AM PST by Perdogg (Rep. Tom McClintock (R-CA4) for President 2016)
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To: Bratch
Whoever thought the Stupid Party RINOs are smart enough to figure this out? Sadly, not in our lifetime. RINOs hate conservatives; they do not have a problem with socialists/Marxists.
7 posted on 11/15/2012 11:00:48 AM PST by MasterGunner01
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To: Bratch
It's probably way too late for that, and anyway, why would should want to help a bunch of weaselly, crooked, decrepit, backstabbing GOP-E types who threw her to the wolves the first time around. Screw them! It's time to start up a new national Conservative Party and let the Republicans go the way of the Whigs.

BTW...

Apologies To Sarah Palin

In light of the revelation that Romney-Ryan received fewer votes than McCain-Palin, despite running against an incumbent president with the worst record in our nation’s history, I think it’s time to lay the theory that Sarah Palin cost McCain the election to rest.

In fact, I would argue that McCain would have lost by a much bigger margin without her on the ticket. He is no more loved by the base than Romney is.

Apologies can be sent here:

The Office of Sarah Palin
P.O. Box 871235
Wasilla, AK 99687

8 posted on 11/15/2012 11:02:36 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Bratch

What in the world makes anybody think Palin wants back in the “GOP room”? Illegal immigrants, wolves and gay clergy are treated better than the Palin family by the GOP.


9 posted on 11/15/2012 11:03:22 AM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Vinomori
she QUIT her job as governor to become a TV celebrity.....

Get a clue, PDS'er.

10 posted on 11/15/2012 11:04:57 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Bratch
“Do you want to know why nothing ever really gets done?” she said, referring to politicians. “It’s because there’s nothing in it for them. They’ve got a lot of mouths to feed — a lot of corporate lobbyists and a lot of special interests that are counting on them to keep the good times and the money rolling along.”

This populist argument may sound good, but it isn't true. Lots of stuff gets done, it just isn't stuff we like. Obamacare just got done - something the left has worked at since FDR was in office. The government took over the entire Student Loan program, another big ticket item the liberals wanted and succeeded at. A blizzard of new EPA regulations have been put in to effect which will begin putting the coal industry out of business. I mean, the list goes on and on here. It just isn't true that "nothing gets done". The problem is the left is winning and only their stuff is getting done.

Had we taken the Senate in 2010 or 2012, maybe we could have pushed some bills to Obama's desk and perhaps gotten a few things we want signed into law. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. We ran a bunch of crummy Senate candidates like O'Donnell, Angle, Akin, Mourdock, McMahon, etc, and they all lost.

11 posted on 11/15/2012 11:06:46 AM PST by Longbow1969
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To: Bratch; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale
RE :”But this is the “party of stupid” we’re talking about, so I won’t hold my breath.”

Ha-ha, this source C4P assured readers that Palin was running for POTUS last year, not run, but she was ALREADY running.

One need only ask some basic questions to determine Mrs. Palin’s intentions
...
2 – For what reason would Mrs. Palin take her entire family on a “bus tour” of historic sites around the United States? The key here is the BUS. If she wanted to tour these sites, she could easily do it in her family vehicle. Why stir up all the attendant media coverage?

Six Clues Palin Is Running For President(C4P Posted on June 30 2011)

Great clues LOL.

12 posted on 11/15/2012 11:06:46 AM PST by sickoflibs (How long before cry-Bohner caves to O again? They took the House for what?)
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To: Liberty Valance

Simply “letting her back in the room” solves nothing, anyway. The establishment wants to marginalize/ignore her or co-opt her. (And anyone else like her, this isn’t a Palin-specific thing.)

What they won’t do, under any circumstances, is actually turn over control to her. Without control, it’s just a means to co-opt and perpetuate the establishment machine.


13 posted on 11/15/2012 11:08:53 AM PST by kevkrom (If a wise man has an argument with a foolish man, the fool only rages or laughs...)
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To: Vinomori
she QUIT her job as governor to become a TV celebrity

(insert picture of me rolling eyes here)

14 posted on 11/15/2012 11:09:42 AM PST by LaybackLenny (Principles aren't worth a bucket of warm spit. I'm voting Romney. God help me.)
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To: Vinomori; Perdogg
Enjoy : #12
15 posted on 11/15/2012 11:10:47 AM PST by sickoflibs (How long before cry-Bohner caves to O again? They took the House for what?)
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To: Longbow1969
We ran a bunch of crummy Senate candidates like O'Donnell, Angle, Akin, Mourdock, McMahon, etc, and they all lost.

And yet other TEA Party candidates won. On the whole, the TEA Party was far more successful in changing the makeup of Congress than anyone would have given them a chance in 2009, but then when they weren't perfect in all races, they get vilified by the same folks who brought us a House minority and filibuster-proof Senate minority.

16 posted on 11/15/2012 11:11:52 AM PST by kevkrom (If a wise man has an argument with a foolish man, the fool only rages or laughs...)
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To: Bratch

The GOPe does not want conservatives, Tea Party or Gov Palin. In their opinion, Gov Palin is what is wrong with the GOP in that she is so conservative.


17 posted on 11/15/2012 11:12:00 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: Bratch

I don’t know how to put this. This is the party that reelected John Boehner as Speaker.

They are not me.


18 posted on 11/15/2012 11:18:27 AM PST by marron
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To: Bratch
RE :”Keep in mind that Sarah Palin was told to “leave the room” by none other than Charles Krauthammer, back in 2009.”(C4P)

Who? Who cares what he thinks. Doesnt he work for FNC?

Palin’s job with FNC meant that she was not running nor considering it contrary to about 100 C4P posts claiming she was campaigning for POTUS last year, This has got to be the biggest hoax website in history.

19 posted on 11/15/2012 11:18:27 AM PST by sickoflibs (How long before cry-Bohner caves to O again? They took the House for what?)
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To: Vinomori

Enough said? Only if you are an idiot.

Palin’s choice: continue to fight endless, coordinated, partisan waves of frivolous lawsuits as governor that Alaska law allows BUT Alaskan government does NOT provide funds to defend, thus eventually bankrupting her family, jeopardizing their solvency, and leaving her kids facing an uncertain future.

OR

Quit while she still had money in the bank and the possibility to make more, thus providing for and protecting her family’s future.

Sarah chose her family. Apparently Vinomori would say, “piss on my family!”

NOW, enough said.


20 posted on 11/15/2012 11:19:59 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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To: Vinomori
Not really why she resigned as Alaska Governor ~

What we need is a single touchstone where we can evaluate folks to see whether they are GOP-e or just GOP ~ and she might be that.

We really got to get to work purging the party of the GOP-e now.

21 posted on 11/15/2012 11:21:44 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Bratch

Oh that’s just funny the good ole boy’s system don’t like a woman with gut’s it’s not their place ! the problem is they don’t have the gut’s to do what Palin can do Naturally !


22 posted on 11/15/2012 11:29:00 AM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (100% voted Obama in precincts in Ohio ? NOPE i don't believe it ! someone CHEATED !)
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To: Bratch
If the GOP Were Smart They Would Let Gov. Palin Back Into the Room

If the GOP Were Conservative and Smart They Would let Gov. Palin Back Into the Room.

The problem is that the Republicans fancy themselves as the Nominal Opposition. They wish to be part of the power structure but are content being in the social portion of the power structure and being advisers to the Democrats who they feel are the natural rulers of the state. Most of them probably understand that there will not be another Republican President. Well hell, look who they nominate! these guys, all of them Bob Dole, do not actually want to be President. They crave only the recognition of their Party as the Republican nominee. Actually being President is a hassle and is better for Democrats because they like that sort of thing.

23 posted on 11/15/2012 11:29:09 AM PST by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson)
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To: Vinomori
She quit her job because there was no state funding of defenses against frivolous lawsuits. It was passed after she left office and had it been passed when she was in office it would not have applied to her.

She and Todd were going broke defending against the 18 stupid lawsuits that were filed.

Your vilification of Palin simply says that the Demos won that round. A very big win and you perpetuate that win by giving them reason to spike that ball.

24 posted on 11/15/2012 11:34:12 AM PST by buffaloguy
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To: Bratch

I would like to hear some SOLUTIONS and PROPOSALS from somebody right now...Rush, Hannity and Beck are about as useless as t*ts on a boar right now...


25 posted on 11/15/2012 11:34:12 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Bratch

Hmmm, she might close the gender gap. If she ran on a conservative message, she’ll turn out the base. If she chose Rubio as VP, she’ll pull in a greater percentage of the hispanic vote.

She needs to run a website defending the smears, like Obama has. She could win.


26 posted on 11/15/2012 11:38:09 AM PST by gman4bush
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To: Perdogg

How many times we been told that Senators can’t win to become president. Yet somehow when Obama/Hilary started to run, that conventional wisdom get thrown out the window


27 posted on 11/15/2012 11:40:42 AM PST by 4rcane
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To: Bratch

If they were smart, they would never have locked her away four years ago.


28 posted on 11/15/2012 11:40:52 AM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: Bratch
Palin enjoys the reality shows, speaking tours, books & public appearances far more than the work it takes to be a candidate for national office.

And if she were to lose such an election, she knows all the shows, etc would basically end.

She's made her decision & it does not include running for office.

29 posted on 11/15/2012 11:44:14 AM PST by gdani
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To: 4rcane

Well, I am never said that she could never win just running against history.


30 posted on 11/15/2012 11:46:40 AM PST by Perdogg (Rep. Tom McClintock (R-CA4) for President 2016)
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To: gdani

a very attractive woman, good mom, good person and I agree with her on most issues.

horrible messenger... just horrid...that voice !!

ughhh.. no thanks. good luck Sarah, no hard feelings.


31 posted on 11/15/2012 11:47:05 AM PST by Chuzzlewit
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To: Bratch

Absolutely they should bring her back into the room. What’s the worst that could happen to the party... that it’d lose an election it should’ve won?


32 posted on 11/15/2012 11:47:15 AM PST by ScottinVA (I've never been more disgusted with American voters.)
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To: Vinomori
she QUIT her job as governor to become a TV celebrity.....
enough said......

Oh yeah, the GOP's so much better off with Karl Rove.

33 posted on 11/15/2012 11:48:54 AM PST by COBOL2Java (The GOP-e said "Beat a Marxist with a Liberal!" What a colossal blunder.)
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To: Bratch

.


34 posted on 11/15/2012 11:49:56 AM PST by BerryDingle (I know how to deal with communists, I still wear their scars on my back from Hollywood-Ronald Reagan)
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To: Lee'sGhost

Sarah chose wrong, she had a responsibilty to remain Gov. and not be forced out of office.


35 posted on 11/15/2012 11:50:41 AM PST by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: buffaloguy
You guys are always putting up Palin as some great patriot, yet, how many patriots have gone broke fighting for what was right!

Read about the signers of the Declaration of Independence and what it cost them and their families.

36 posted on 11/15/2012 11:53:24 AM PST by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: Bratch

6.7 million voters didn’t show up to vote for either candidate. Add them to the conservative vote and win. How? the candidate actually follows the constitution vs licking his finger, and sticking it up in the air to see which way the wind blows.


37 posted on 11/15/2012 11:54:31 AM PST by Texasbulldog
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To: Bratch

Since they lost, I don’t see anyone stopping her from doing what she wants. She should run for something else.
Maybe she doesn’t want to run in this climate.


38 posted on 11/15/2012 11:56:53 AM PST by dforest
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To: Bratch
That's a big were there.

Even Ryan was out drawing Mutt the wonder flop.

Of course Palin and Ryan are both article 2 NBC eligible unlike Juan and Mutt.

39 posted on 11/15/2012 12:02:16 PM PST by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: Bratch
frankensteal

Blah, blah , blah, Republicans should do THIS, Republicans should do THAT...

...ITS DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THEY DO IF WE CONTINUE TO LET THE RATS STEAL THE ELECTIONS!


40 posted on 11/15/2012 12:03:13 PM PST by Nateman (If liberals are not screaming you are doing it wrong!)
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To: Bratch

If GOP members were smart, they would go to the room wherein Palin is waiting and leave the GOPe to themselves.


41 posted on 11/15/2012 12:05:01 PM PST by SENTINEL (I lie, I cheat, I steal, I communize, I sacrifice unborn babies, I'm Harry Reid and I'm a mormon)
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To: 4rcane
How many times we been told that Senators can’t win to become president. Yet somehow when Obama/Hilary started to run, that conventional wisdom get thrown out the window

Senators don't win, unless their opponent is also a Senator. The American public generally prefers former/current VPs and Governors.

42 posted on 11/15/2012 12:06:21 PM PST by kevkrom (If a wise man has an argument with a foolish man, the fool only rages or laughs...)
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To: Bratch

Unfortunately, Palin’s fate in politics was probably sealed by all of the Romney-ites in the McCain campaign and in the GOP generally who stabbed her in the back during and in the period following the 2008 campaign. Imagine a different world in which they protected her from/prepared her for the likes of Katie Couric, stood strongly behind her throughout the campaign, and then helped her fight the onslaught of bogus lawsuits that forced her from the Governor’s office in 2009.

She was on track to be a lock on reelection as Governor, and from there she would’ve had a proper platform from which to mount a campaign for the nomination. With Palin as our candidate, no way we would’ve suffered the flat turnout and lack of support from the white working class voters who basically sunk Romney in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, etc., and who knows what kinds of dynamics might have been unleashed with respect to the gender gap, likability, celebrity, etc.

Maybe she would’ve picked up fewer independents, but I don’t even know about that. Prior to her the MSM smear job that was done on her, she was known for her appeal to independents.

I was mad at her for not running, choosing to engage in reality-show media-mongering, but ultimately, without support from anyone in the Party, you aren’t getting the nomination, or even any kind of positive reception. Ask Ron Paul about that.

Anyways, the GOP is just stupid. How they can imagine that the proper response to getting wiped out by a demographic shift to lower-income Hispanic voters by radically expanding the numbers of lower-income Hispanic voters just completely eludes me?


43 posted on 11/15/2012 12:06:42 PM PST by Behind the Blue Wall
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Time for the GOP-e to ramp up the “we’re conservative” schtick again before throwing legit conservatives under the bus at the earliest convenience. Cut these weasels off.


44 posted on 11/15/2012 12:07:17 PM PST by Hayride
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To: fortheDeclaration

“Read about the signers of the Declaration of Independence and what it cost them and their families.”

There was a great deal more at stake for the signers of the Declaration.


45 posted on 11/15/2012 12:17:03 PM PST by buffaloguy
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To: kevkrom

I’m just pointing out that you need state-wide caliber candidates for state wide races. That means polished, skilled politicians who don’t stick their foot in their mouth about rape. What can win a house district is rarely good enough to win a statewide Senate race - for that you generally need significantly better candidates (especially as a Republican).

Guys like Akin and Mourdock not only cost us 2 Senate seats, their dumb comments hurt Republicans across the board by feeding into the left’s narrative that Republicans don’t understand women’s issues.


46 posted on 11/15/2012 12:24:39 PM PST by Longbow1969
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To: Chuzzlewit

Not only is her voice NOT a problem (except to RINOs and socialists), but I’m more interested in SUBSTANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


47 posted on 11/15/2012 12:31:06 PM PST by newfreep (Breitbart sent me...)
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To: Vinomori

Why did she quit?


48 posted on 11/15/2012 12:33:57 PM PST by LachlanMinnesota
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To: Vinomori

She’s done more for the conservative cause than any 10 RINOs.


49 posted on 11/15/2012 12:38:27 PM PST by JaguarXKE (Welcome to the new America.)
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To: kevkrom
Senators don't win, unless their opponent is also a Senator. The American public generally prefers former/current VPs and Governors.
The exception is Harding, who beat the governor of his own state of Ohio in 1920. But then, in 1920 a dogcatcher running as a Republican would have defeated any Democrat after the aftermath of the Wilson Administration and the bitter aftermath of WWI.

As to “current VPs,” a VP is not an executive position but the political heir of the president. Consequently the election of a sitting VP is essentially a third election victory for the sitting POTUS - and you will see a lot of prestige attached to that sitting president - examples are Washington (distorted by the fact that the 12th Amendment wasn’t in place when John Adams became the first VP), Andrew Jackson, and Ronald Reagan. You could sorta throw FDR in there, in that he explicitly won a third term in his own name.

Consequently the VP slot isn’t really a great launching point for a run for the presidency, if you don’t actually inherit the office. Nixon, of course, won the presidency in ’68 after leaving the VP office in ’61. Not sure how many other no-sitting VPs won election to the presidency. Note that Nixon defeated a sitting VP in ’68 . . .


50 posted on 11/15/2012 12:41:21 PM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which “liberalism" coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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