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How about defacto secession? (Texas, for example)
Vanity | self

Posted on 11/15/2012 11:01:23 AM PST by far sider

Total vanity thread.

I kind of like the whole idea of Texas seceding. It is the most obvious state to do so. There may be enough Texans to make it a serious proposition, but I have my doubts.

But aren't there other options short of secession that any state could resort to, if they are serious?

The federal government can only exercise such overreaching control over the states because we allow it. Individual states could put their feet down.

For example, here in Ohio, we deduct the state income tax that we pay from our federal taxes. Texas could create an income tax equal to the federal income tax. Texans could just deduct their state taxes from their federal returns, and Texas keeps ALL the money, instead of whatever the feds decide to give back. I would much rather give my money to a state government that was not antithetical to my beleifs than to a distant, tyrranical federal government.

They could do the same thing with all other revenues to the government.

The federal government should be at our mercy, not the other way around.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: vanity

1 posted on 11/15/2012 11:01:24 AM PST by far sider
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To: far sider

Now that the election is over. Now that the SCOTUS has made its ruling.....

The ONLY way to get rid of Obamacare and restore the Constitution (especially the 10th Amendment) is to go this route....unless someone out there has a better idea.


2 posted on 11/15/2012 11:04:58 AM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: far sider

Late me state up front that secession is a stupid idea because you don’t like the temporary occupant of the White House. That said if you wanted to de facto leave then here is how you do it.

You have to reject all federal dollars for your education, health care, prison system, highways etc. and the strings that come with them. You have to accept the fact that the United States is still going to take money out of your state through taxes because of the fact there are too many companies doing business in other places besides Texas.

If you don’t take federal money then you don’t have to do federal programs so you have that liberty. But that is about all you get out of it. You are still paying for other failed states like Illinois, California and New York.


3 posted on 11/15/2012 11:10:50 AM PST by Patrick1 (“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”)
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To: far sider

Right on. 9th & 10th Amendments, save us. We are still a federal system. That means the states can still refuse to implement programs handed down by the federal government. FIGHT! RESIST! They have NO power over the states that the states do not allow them to have.


4 posted on 11/15/2012 11:11:02 AM PST by backwoods-engineer ("Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the gov officials committing it." -- K. Hoffmann)
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To: far sider

Texas has 3 million on Medicare and 4.5 million on Medicaid.
That’s a lot of folks to deport to blue states....


5 posted on 11/15/2012 11:14:07 AM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's bankruptcy: 2016)
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To: far sider

Well, there are two problems with that plan:

First, the federal government gives some taxpayers a deduction (not a credit) for state taxes. So, unless Texas taxed at a rate of 100%, there could still be some federal tax due.

Second, the federal government decides whether or not state taxes can be deducted. How long do you think it would take the feds to fix the problem?


6 posted on 11/15/2012 11:20:38 AM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
unless someone out there has a better idea.

There is no better idea than the Constitution and it's law of the land ! or was now it seem's we will be living under the thumb of tyrannical puppet kings

I have idea's but they are not better than the Constitution in fact they lead us down a path of blood and barter if you think this country is split down the middle by process of the vote and democratic law you have been sleeping with your eyes open .

We the People will either exist under the thumb or live by cutting it off ! Let us pray that we can live without pressure of oppression and that the tree of liberty need not be nourished by any True American !

7 posted on 11/15/2012 11:23:04 AM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (100% voted Obama in precincts in Ohio ? NOPE i don't believe it ! someone CHEATED !)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Every Republican on Social Security and Medicare is sure to be counted on for support. I served in the military and have contributed to this country for many decades. My father and brother served in a total of 3 wars/conlicts. I am not going anywhere, and I live in Texas.


8 posted on 11/15/2012 11:33:00 AM PST by DOGEY
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To: nascarnation

“That’s a lot of folks to deport to blue states....”

But hey, we’d be willing to try. If Obama passes amnesty, Texas should allocate a few million a year to fly Mexicans to whatever state they’d like to live in. We would certainly recommend the Blue States with their cradle-to-grave welfare, a la “Uulia.” After all, the Obama states are much more compassionate than Texas, and we deserve a break after paying to feed, educate, medicate and incarcerate hundreds of thousands of Mexicans for all these years.


9 posted on 11/15/2012 11:48:54 AM PST by txrefugee
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To: nascarnation

No it’s not !!! Just ship them all to Chicago.


10 posted on 11/15/2012 11:59:26 AM PST by bestrongbpositive
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To: far sider

I don’t think you’ve thought this one through. Take a Texan who makes $50,000 per year and let’s say he or she pays 10% ( $5,000) in federal income tax (imaginary number but easy to work with). If Texas imposes a state income tax equal to the federal rate, he/she pays Austin $5,000 which of course is deductible from gross income — reducing it from $50,000 to $45,000 for tax purposes. The federal tax liability falls from $5,000 to $4,500. As another poster noted, you can’t get there from here. Don’t mix up tax deductions with tax credits.


11 posted on 11/15/2012 12:03:25 PM PST by newroark (Ever Vigilant)
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To: far sider

There is a petition by a group in Austin if Texas does secede, to let Austin remain part of the union. I say ship the libs to CA or NY.


12 posted on 11/15/2012 12:08:24 PM PST by Arrowhead1952 (0 bummer inherited a worse economy in 2012 than he did in 2008.)
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To: far sider

LOL. The funny thing about all this “Texas should secede” nonsense is that in not too many more years Texas will be a blue state like California. Texas is loaded with a rapidly growing Hispanic population that will continue to vote more and more Democrat and flip the state.

The states that might one day be candidates to secede (in a fantasy scenario that will likely never really happen) will be the ones with the highest percentage of white people. As current trends continue, states in the rust belt, NH and perhaps places like Oregon will probably become more and more Republican and most likely to resist the growing tentacles of the social welfare state.


13 posted on 11/15/2012 12:24:17 PM PST by Longbow1969
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To: far sider

You mean something like nullification?


14 posted on 11/15/2012 12:36:50 PM PST by dangus
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To: far sider

Any “solution” that starts with increasing state taxes is a non-starter.


15 posted on 11/15/2012 12:42:16 PM PST by SoothingDave
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To: far sider

Stop this nonsense. Texas is NOT going to secede. Texas is heavily populated by American loving patriots, and we’re not leaving our country.


16 posted on 11/15/2012 2:22:50 PM PST by Melas (u)
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To: Melas

It might be YOUR country, but it isn’t mine.
The United States I loved and served in the military for, NO LONGER EXISTS. I am loyal to Texas. The government of my home IS HOME. Texas has the capacity to exist, without Obama and his Marxist regime.


17 posted on 11/17/2012 12:50:10 PM PST by TexConfederate1861 (Deo Vindice (God will vindicate) February 22, 1861)
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To: Longbow1969

Yes I’ve offered to bet my next Social Security check (electronically signed by Baraq Hussein Obama, btw) that Texas will go blue in a POTUS election before it secedes.


18 posted on 11/17/2012 12:53:47 PM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's bankruptcy: 2016)
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To: nascarnation

If Texas secedes, its government, taxing structures even its money systems are open to radical change. The welfare bennies that the Mexicans come to Texas for will be gone and Mexico has two nations it needs to deal with on its border. The state won’t turn blue because it is no longer a state but its own nation...even its political party structures will change since they will be suject to the NATION of TEXAS...not the state of Texas. Mexicans who were not citizens of the US, will not be citizens of the nation of Texas unless they agree to adopt to its new constitution and laws...otherwise they can be forcibly thrust over the Mexican Border with no interveneing courts or ICE interference to say them nay!


19 posted on 11/18/2012 1:21:22 PM PST by mdmathis6 ("Barry" Xmas to all and have a rapaciously taxable New Year!)
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To: mdmathis6

There is no down side to Texas becoming a nation again.


20 posted on 11/18/2012 1:27:25 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: mdmathis6
The state won’t turn blue because it is no longer a state but its own nation...even its political party structures will change since they will be suject to the NATION of TEXAS...not the state of Texas.

The state of Texas votes Republican because it doesn't agree with what Northern liberals want to do. Take those Northern liberals out of the picture and what Texas voters want to do will change.

I wouldn't be surprised if an independent Texas looked more or less like the country it decided to leave. That's what happens. Given enough time, independence movements make government stronger, rather than weaker. We revolted against Britain and the taxes Parliament imposed on us and developed a government that taxed us more than the British ever did.

People just love to look at the CSA as though it were some anti-government movement, when it was a government that was at least as repressive as any other American government. Ireland revolted against England to go its own way in the world, but decades after British influence were thrown off Ireland is more European and less "Irish" than it was in the past.

Maybe I'm rambling, but politics has to do with a balance of forces and tendencies. Remove one force and you'd be surprised what the new balance will be. When the welfare state isn't seen some alien Northern thing, Southerners or Texans might take to it more than a lot of people think now.

21 posted on 11/18/2012 1:32:40 PM PST by x
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To: x

I appreciate your instructional and cautionary comments. We need to analyze where the exit is from some of these alluring theme park rides we contemplate.

Burke told France that a Napoleon was their future but none agreed at the time.


22 posted on 11/18/2012 1:43:02 PM PST by KC Burke (Plain Conservative opinions and common sense correction for thirteen years.)
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To: x

“Maybe I’m rambling, but politics has to do with a balance of forces and tendencies. Remove one force and you’d be surprised what the new balance will be. When the welfare state isn’t seen some alien Northern thing, Southerners or Texans might take to it more than a lot of people think now”

Perhaps...in two hundred years...by then it would be time for some other new revolution.


23 posted on 11/18/2012 3:21:28 PM PST by mdmathis6 ("Barry" Xmas to all and have a rapaciously taxable New Year!)
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To: mdmathis6

So you’re on for the bet?


24 posted on 11/18/2012 5:19:44 PM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's bankruptcy: 2016)
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