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What seceding from the U.S. will cost you
Marketwatch ^ | 11/17/2012 | Brett Arends

Posted on 11/17/2012 11:02:27 AM PST by SeekAndFind

Your state wants to secede from the union. What will this mean for your taxes?

I have good news and bad news. The good news is really good. But the bad news is really, really bad.

We’ll get to them in a moment.

Talk of secession is in the air. The White House this week confirmed that residents in all fifty states had submitted petitions asking to leave the union. Will the last one left please turn out the lights?

Residents in seven states, all in the former Confederacy, submitted more than 30,000 signatures each — enough that some hapless bureaucrat or intern will now have to take a look at their petitions.

The news comes 150 years after the Civil War, and just in time for Steve Spielberg’s biopic of Abraham Lincoln, the man whom we have to thank — if that’s the word I want — for the continued forcible marriage of the once-independent states.

It’s only a couple of years since Texas governor Rick Perry hoisted a rhetorical secessionist flag in response to Obamacare. In the last few years, anti-federal “10th Amendment” resolutions, emphasizing the primacy of states’ rights versus those of the union, have passed the legislatures of 12 states in the South and West. In five states, the governors signed them, too. (The 10th Amendment to the Constitution says states’ rights come before those of the federal government. The last time anyone in Washington actually paid attention to it, the ink was still wet.)

But what would any of this actually mean for your taxes?

The upside is you will be liberated from the sheer living hell of the federal tax code.

I don’t care where you live, and how badly run your local state government is. Nothing could be worse than this monstrosity.

(Excerpt) Read more at marketwatch.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: secession
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1 posted on 11/17/2012 11:02:31 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

It would cost me all those blue states.

Ain’t that tragic?


2 posted on 11/17/2012 11:05:14 AM PST by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans. Don't read their lips. Watch their hands.)
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To: SeekAndFind
It’s only a couple of years since Texas governor Rick Perry hoisted a rhetorical secessionist flag in response to Obamacare.

Didn't Barack Obama have some allegiance with the persons in Hawaii who want to secede?

3 posted on 11/17/2012 11:15:07 AM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: SeekAndFind

Zero would just imagine that he’s the reincarnation of Lincoln...trying to protect the blacks (and gays, lesbians, transgender, muslims, hispanics, poor,urban etc) and save the union. The press would totally agree.

We who want out would be portrayed as selfish racist traitors and our weapons would be confiscated.

Come to think of it zero might welcome this event.


4 posted on 11/17/2012 11:16:45 AM PST by Aria ( 2008 wasn't an election - it was a coup d'etat.)
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To: SeekAndFind

He’s assuming all social programs will continue to function the same and pay the parasites the same, they won’t. Get rid of federally mandated social engineering programs and a lot of overhead goes away. What about the people getting the checks you say? Tell them to get a job, stop spitting out kids as a single welfare parent, or move to somewhere that still wants to support you, or die. Would take few years but the problem would solve itself. Alambama could support itself quite well without the federal government if they were willing to take a “tough love” approach to fiscal responsibility.


5 posted on 11/17/2012 11:19:05 AM PST by MtBaldy (If Obama is the answer, it must have been a really stupid question)
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To: Aria

I’ve always thought that positioning was part of the reason for these absurd ‘petitions’ emanating from the fedgov.


6 posted on 11/17/2012 11:19:41 AM PST by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans. Don't read their lips. Watch their hands.)
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To: MtBaldy

You are right on target.


7 posted on 11/17/2012 11:20:46 AM PST by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans. Don't read their lips. Watch their hands.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Who pays for social security retirement benefits or military retirement pay?


8 posted on 11/17/2012 11:28:18 AM PST by New Jersey Realist (America: home of the free because of the brave)
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To: SeekAndFind

quote “That’s because your state receives far more back from Uncle Sam in government spending than you pay in federal taxes. If you go it alone, you’ll have to make up the difference yourselves. “

um... no.

Because we would stop paying for most of the crap the federal government does. Those states the article mentions that receive so much more in federal assistance than the rest of the nation... just happen to have the largest percentage of blacks, which disproportionately use welfare and over federal government handouts.

If we seceeded. We would STOP all those welfare payments to those groups causing them to.... flee to the North where they can once again be happy on the plantation having their every want taken care of including free Obama-phones!


9 posted on 11/17/2012 11:29:35 AM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: Psalm 144

It would have some appeal for a state like Texas, or Florida or any coastal state with resources or tourism. North Dakota, flush with energy $$, while landlocked, might find it appealing.

The hard part would be unbundling all the federal infrastructure investments and figuring out what would have to be paid to Washington D.C. as an exit fee. Probably not worth the exercise.

Rather than secession I would think that there could be some rationalizing of state boundaries, and consolidation of several Northeastern states. The UP of Michigan belongs with Wisconsin, probably the panhandle of FL should be southern Alabama.

But that too is a pointless thought experiment, since political boundaries, however drawn, become entrenched. Atlanta, the city of and the metro area of are perfect examples. There should be a metro area government, essentially a super county, made up of 8-10 of the counties in the present metro area. But the City of Atlanta would never cede power. Never going to happen.


10 posted on 11/17/2012 11:30:37 AM PST by Wally_Kalbacken
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To: Psalm 144
“I’ve always thought that positioning was part of the reason for these absurd ‘petitions’ emanating from the fedgov.” BING BING BING BING ! We have a winner! Yes sir! Throwing secession on the table as the most extreme position is far better than starting 1 1/2 click off dead center and hoping for the best.
11 posted on 11/17/2012 11:30:46 AM PST by jmaroneps37 (Conservatism is truth. Liberalism is lies.)
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To: SeekAndFind
We'll just have to make sure that Meatloaf doesn't end up around Gettysburg next year...
12 posted on 11/17/2012 11:32:22 AM PST by mikrofon (Obviously sci-fi since the Black President is depicted as the "greatest ever known")
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To: Psalm 144

It would cost me my Social Security which I paid into all those working years. I even kinda personally feel like there’s some small compensation in there for my service in Vietnam, on which the liberals pulled the plug in the certainty of victory we would otherwise have acheived there.

But, no secession for me today, thanks.


13 posted on 11/17/2012 11:35:45 AM PST by onedoug
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To: SeekAndFind
Within ten years, the US federal government will be waging war on its citizens. Probably won't be that many bullets. The only weapon they need is starvation.

The entire misanthropic "environmental" movement is a thinly-disguised propaganda campaign to get US citizens to accept that they are bad for Mother Earth, and that the best thing that could happen to Mother Earth is for them to do the right thing and die.

14 posted on 11/17/2012 11:38:30 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the psychopath.)
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To: SeekAndFind
"But the bad news is really, really bad . . . you will get fewer government services"

Government services like the EPA stopping you from improving your land or the FDA telling you which medicine you cannot have. Most "government services" are imposed by force, and Free people do not want them.

15 posted on 11/17/2012 11:40:48 AM PST by UnwashedPeasant
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To: MtBaldy
Beat me to it!

Is THIS how America dies??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NQWucYbPCY

16 posted on 11/17/2012 11:42:52 AM PST by Dick Bachert (Obama for president -- of KENYA!)
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To: onedoug

You know... honestly.... I think busting the United States up into about 3 or 4 provinces probably makes a lot of sense in this day and age.


17 posted on 11/17/2012 11:42:58 AM PST by kjam22 (my newest music video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fHjvo6eRkI)
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To: SeekAndFind

It would cost me about 750,000 illegal aliens that would leave the State once no free money was available.


18 posted on 11/17/2012 11:46:39 AM PST by CodeToad (Padme: "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.")
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To: SeekAndFind
People in those states who vote Republican or conservative now to vote against Washington DC or New York or federal taxes or abortion or gay marriage, may find themselves voting liberal for more government programs and benefits if all those issues and concerns are taken off the table -- at least if history is any indication, since over time independence movements usually result in more rather than less government.

How likely is it that downscale Texans or Southerners would forever let their vote be determined by animosity for those across the Northern border? If you don't have the usual suspects to vote against, things can change pretty quickly.

Also, some people assume that a seceding state or region (or what remains of the rest of the country) would see an economic boom due to the break-up. I suspect the result of secession and disunion would be to make all the successor states economic backwaters, as investment flows to greener pastures abroad.

19 posted on 11/17/2012 11:48:12 AM PST by x
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To: Aria
We who want out would be portrayed as selfish racist traitors and our weapons would be confiscated.

If you owed firearms, and truly believed in the letter and intent of the 2nd Amendment, you wouldn't even think of uttering such a defeatist comment.

Armed US citizens: roughly 90 million
US Armed forces: roughly 600,000

Do the math.

20 posted on 11/17/2012 11:50:17 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: SeekAndFind
The upside is you will be liberated from the sheer living hell of the federal tax code.

I don’t care where you live, and how badly run your local state government is. Nothing could be worse than this monstrosity.

Yes it could and will!

The so called fiscal cliff is just the excuse our out of control Congress needs to make the tax code even more arcane.

Our congress critters have learned long ago how to make friends and influence campaign donors by strategically writing tax law to reward their friends and punish those that are not their friends.

With an impending tax cliff straight a head there is ample opportunity to wring campaign cash out of those wealthy individuals and corporations for a few favorable lines of tax law.

21 posted on 11/17/2012 11:50:24 AM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: SeekAndFind
If the premise of the article were even vaguely true, the FedGov wouldn't allow these states to secede, it would expel them!
22 posted on 11/17/2012 11:51:32 AM PST by null and void (America - Abducted by Aliens...)
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To: SeekAndFind
There is a national debt that I would not have to pay my share. The total unpaid amount of debts of Uncle Sam is almost $150Trillion. I could succeed and live a third world existence and be rich next to Uncle Sam when he collapses.
23 posted on 11/17/2012 11:54:05 AM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: x

Lets see no onerous tax burden and federal regulation. Energy that is actually exploited for the peoples need. Some back water, the only back water is flowing in the heads of the federal apologists.


24 posted on 11/17/2012 11:54:19 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Secession will probably become necessary to save/restore America (the culture and the founding principles), but there really is a bad side that has to be resolved.

The U.S. federal govt would retain control of the military assets, the currency, and federal property.

On the micro level, what happens to the SSN/Medicare/military “pensions” that individuals have paid into if these individuals reside in a Free State? Would folks have to self-deport to a Slave State in order to retain their earned benefits?


25 posted on 11/17/2012 11:57:22 AM PST by UnwashedPeasant
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To: UnwashedPeasant

Confederate soldiers received state pensions. Actually it was pretty good and transferable to the spouse. A lot of old men exploited this to get fairly attractive younger women to marry them The last Confederate bride died only a few years ago.


26 posted on 11/17/2012 12:02:03 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: CodeToad
It would cost me about 750,000 illegal aliens that would leave the State once no free money was available.

And all of a sudden employers would no longer want cheap labor?

Nice dream.

27 posted on 11/17/2012 12:04:24 PM PST by x
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To: Windflier

I don’t trust that this government wouldn’t go to ANY lengths to get their way.
Well, they already have - Fast and Furious for one. I’m sure there are more plans waiting on the back burners.


28 posted on 11/17/2012 12:05:39 PM PST by Aria ( 2008 & 2012 weren't elections - both were a coup d'etat.)
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To: UnwashedPeasant
The U.S. federal govt would retain control of the military assets, the currency, and federal property.

Secession means complete and total political dis-unification. States leaving the union would no longer be a part of the federal union, and therefore not subject to any claims by that now 'foreign' government.

29 posted on 11/17/2012 12:05:47 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: UnwashedPeasant

If the state is successful in secession then the new “state/country/province” would have standing to extract from the social security and military retirement systems amounts equivalent to what their citizens paid in. Those moneys would then be invested in the province operated retirement programs which would probably mean more cash for the recipients.

I don’t see those funds as an impediment.


30 posted on 11/17/2012 12:06:16 PM PST by msrngtp2002 (Just my opinion.)
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To: Aria
I don’t trust that this government wouldn’t go to ANY lengths to get their way.

Again, do the math.

90 million armed citizens versus 600,000 federal troops. Not even the worst fool would challenge those odds.

Just what do you think is holding them back now?

31 posted on 11/17/2012 12:08:39 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier
Secession means complete and total political dis-unification. States leaving the union would no longer be a part of the federal union, and therefore not subject to any claims by that now 'foreign' government.

Because you say so? Because it feels good?

Any kind of dissolution of the union is going to involve cooperation, compromise, and give and take between various authorities.

Shortsightedness and overreaching did a lot to doom earlier attempts at disunion, and would derail any future effort.

32 posted on 11/17/2012 12:14:11 PM PST by x
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To: x

“And all of a sudden employers would no longer want cheap labor?”

Sure, that’s why they are here. /s


33 posted on 11/17/2012 12:16:57 PM PST by CodeToad (Padme: "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.")
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To: Windflier

Half the US Army is comprised of red staters. Also more than have the Army is on the other side of the world.


34 posted on 11/17/2012 12:16:57 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: SeekAndFind

So this genius is saying that states that seceded would have trouble paying for the goodies for illegals, fat welfare mommas and the golden retirement plans of fascist bureaucrats.

I’d call this guy an imbecile but it’s too obvious.


35 posted on 11/17/2012 12:18:11 PM PST by sergeantdave (The FBI has declared war on the Marine Corps)
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To: Windflier

Bingo! Correct answer. You win the door prize.


36 posted on 11/17/2012 12:19:46 PM PST by teflon9 (Political campaigns should follow Johnny Mercer's advice--Accentuate the positive.)
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To: CodeToad

It’s certainly one reason. There were illegal immigrants before their was much welfare spending. You’re naive about local and regional economic and political elites, which aren’t that different from elites elsewhere in the country and which won’t lose power with secession.


37 posted on 11/17/2012 12:25:16 PM PST by x
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To: central_va

Breaking up the US simply hastens the advent of the Chinese century. The Chinese have plenty of places they can invest. Texas or some new Confederacy won’t have any privileged place on their list.


38 posted on 11/17/2012 12:25:16 PM PST by x
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To: SeekAndFind

This blather totally ignores the insane $1.5 TRILLION burden of fedgiv regulations!


39 posted on 11/17/2012 12:26:12 PM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: piytar

Fedgov...


40 posted on 11/17/2012 12:26:48 PM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“The entire misanthropic “environmental” movement is a thinly-disguised propaganda campaign to get US citizens to accept that they are bad for Mother Earth, and that the best thing that could happen to Mother Earth is for them to do the right thing and die.”

The liberals should lead the charge, it’s their baby.


41 posted on 11/17/2012 12:29:10 PM PST by GP100
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To: sergeantdave
So this genius is saying that states that seceded would have trouble paying for the goodies for illegals, fat welfare mommas and the golden retirement plans of fascist bureaucrats.

Because all those people are in the blue states?

42 posted on 11/17/2012 12:29:21 PM PST by x
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To: Windflier; rockrr
90 million armed citizens versus 600,000 federal troops. Not even the worst fool would challenge those odds.

What makes you so sure all those "armed citizens" want the same thing?

43 posted on 11/17/2012 12:29:26 PM PST by x
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To: Windflier

I think you are right on.

The way Secession would happen in practice, vs theory, is that Obama and the Left will have to do something outrageous to provoke a mass secession movement. Then Texas would leave first. Texas has the economy to support it. Other conservative states would then be vastly outnumbered by the Leftist states and many would secede to join an interstate treaty organization with Texas. Then the old U.S. would have two separate economies that correlate with the two cultures that we already have. Parasites would self-deport from the Free States to get their government services.

The Free States would have to decide to use an existing currency, or they could make a new one backed by gold. Texas could trade Federal Reserve Notes for their value in gold, then use this gold as the basis for a new currency. The currency would be stable and not dependent on the Fed.

The Free States would have to form their own new military from scratch, unless they could make an agreement with the U.S. government on sharing assets.

The Free States could nationalize and annex “federal property” in the states.

Pensioners (SSN/Medicare/Medicaid) could self-deport to retain U.S. benefits. Or they could use the U.S. courts to demand compensation. But the Free States could resolve to take over this burden, keeping in mind that the Free States would not have any obligation to pay off any of the U.S. debt.

The U.N. Security Council would still include the U.S., but the Free States would have no say. This would be a big negative for the world.

Eventually, the Free States are likely to rejoin the U.S. in some kind of treaty organization. It could even be a restored 50-state U.S. with a restored 10th Amendment.


44 posted on 11/17/2012 12:32:59 PM PST by UnwashedPeasant
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To: UnwashedPeasant

“The U.S. federal govt would retain control of the military assets, the currency, and federal property.”

What makes you think that? When the Libyans split up in 2011 civil war, more than 70% of the troops abandoned Qaddhafi’s fascist government and took their weaponry with them in order to protect their families in the provinces.


45 posted on 11/17/2012 12:33:27 PM PST by sergeantdave (The FBI has declared war on the Marine Corps)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Think of all the current federaly mandated programs/expensive laws that could be trashed.


46 posted on 11/17/2012 12:36:44 PM PST by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
I always laugh when some dummy talks about the delicate balance of the environment...mother nature has to be protected...well, mother nature is a bitch, hurricane, tornado, floods forest fires, tsunami earthquakes, avalanche erupting volcanos, she doesn't need some geek human to protect her. She can wipe you off the earth in 2 seconds. Its a wonder that we can even live on this planet, it is violent if one looks at it without rose tinted glasses, but is beautiful at the same time...
47 posted on 11/17/2012 12:40:40 PM PST by goat granny
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To: MtBaldy

He ignores voting with your feet. Not that I believe secession will happen in my lifetime but if it did I would leave the blue country I live in and move to a red country. This would happen in reverse as well and in short order the blue states would be even bigger sh6tholes than they are now.


48 posted on 11/17/2012 12:41:56 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: SeekAndFind

No one has to secede. Just split the states.


49 posted on 11/17/2012 12:42:10 PM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: New Jersey Realist

It’s moot. They won’t be there anyway. But, the U.S. Gov’t should logically be the entity to open the “lock box” and give citizens what they’ve paid into it.


50 posted on 11/17/2012 12:50:01 PM PST by rashley (Rashley)
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