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Bible-believing Episcopalian penalized
OneNewsNow ^ | October 22, 2012 | Charlie Butts

Posted on 11/19/2012 8:45:11 AM PST by fwdude

A communications manager doesn't think it was smart for the Episcopal Church to essentially strip its South Carolina bishop of his ministry credentials for taking a stand for biblical principles and values.

Officials with the national church have "inhibited" Bishop Mark Lawrence, taking away his clearance to perform ministry functions for 60 days -- the time allotted for him to respond to allegations having to do with the division between the liberal, dominate faction of the church and biblically based members like himself. In response, his diocese has severed its relationship with the Episcopal Church.

Walton, Jeff (IRD)Jeff Walton of The Institute on Religion & Democracy (IRD) tells OneNewsNow the move began as the Episcopal Church approved same-sex blessings and embraced transgenderism, among other things.

"The diocese separated itself from those actions and says, We don't recognize this and We're not going to participate in many of the different functions of the broader church that are proclaiming what Bishop Lawrence referred to as a 'false gospel of indiscriminate inclusivity,'" Walton reports.

(Excerpt) Read more at onenewsnow.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: cult; episcopagans; fauxchristians; gaychurch; homosexualagenda; spiritofantichrist
I'm not sure how this escaped the notice of the Gaystapo-monitors on this site; maybe such unimaginable events have become so commonplace that they are now not news, sadly.

Note that the fake assurances made by the homo-Nazi leadership of this formerly Christian body that local church bodies are free to operate according to their own consciences are now shown for their obvious falsehood; like all homosexual assurances sold to us.

1 posted on 11/19/2012 8:45:13 AM PST by fwdude
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To: fwdude

A church disciplining a member because he’s biblical.

We live in interesting days.


2 posted on 11/19/2012 9:00:01 AM PST by lurk
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To: fwdude

there are those that say the catholic church is evil..

there are those that say the protestant church is evil..

but, both know it is the episcopals that are truly evil..


3 posted on 11/19/2012 9:04:37 AM PST by joe fonebone (The clueless... they walk among us, and they vote...)
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To: lurk

“the Episcopal Church approved same-sex blessings and embraced transgenderism, among other things.”

Bye-bye, Episcopal Church. Enjoy the Antichrist.


4 posted on 11/19/2012 9:05:00 AM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: fwdude

FREEPERS...for heaven’s sake watch again Dinesh D’Souza’ 2016....this “Bible-believing Episcopalian..” this is the propaganda the secularists want for America....diminish the Republic’s values, remove anyone or thing that smacks of worthiness. Saul Alinsky preached the same thing. Isn’t it odd that a communications manager has such power against someone regardless of rank who takes a stand for biblical principles and values.? WOW what a concept!


5 posted on 11/19/2012 9:05:05 AM PST by yoe
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To: fwdude

Does this mean the bishop is unemployed?


6 posted on 11/19/2012 9:15:14 AM PST by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: fwdude
As someone raised in the Episcopal church, there's really no such thing as a Bible believing Episcopalian. The Episcopal church has always weighed tradition and church teaching as important in forming faith. There is no "Sola Scriptura" doctrine.
7 posted on 11/19/2012 9:16:06 AM PST by ArGee (Reality - what a concept.)
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To: ArGee

Agreed.

But what’s exposed here is that by believing what the Bible teaches about sexuality, you can now be penalized by this whore of a Satanic cult.


8 posted on 11/19/2012 9:18:52 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: fwdude

I believe that that diocese has already voted to remove themselves from the cancer of the of the rest of the Episcopal church.


9 posted on 11/19/2012 9:24:45 AM PST by sigzero
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To: fwdude

There is BO such thing as “transfenderism!” Only perversion! G-d doesn’t make mistakes, homo libs! Augh!


10 posted on 11/19/2012 9:35:32 AM PST by Conservapony
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To: ArGee

Just a friendly reminder: “Bible-believing” does not equal “sola Scriptura.” Otherwise you’d have to say St. Paul wasn’t Bible-Believing...


11 posted on 11/19/2012 10:45:43 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (I praise you because you hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you. -1 Cor 11:2)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

You mean Torah-believing. Just like Jesus, St. Paul was Torah believing.


12 posted on 11/19/2012 10:59:12 AM PST by Gman (Anglican Priest)
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To: Gman

Yes, I mean the Torah, but not only the Torah. What Jesus and St. Paul had in common would have been the ~46 books of the LXX.


13 posted on 11/19/2012 11:15:02 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (I praise you because you hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you. -1 Cor 11:2)
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To: fwdude
As a former Episcopalian I have long rued my former sect but never so much as when this Presiding Bishop Katherine Jeffords Schori publicly approved of a dissenting parish property in Bingham, NY, being seized and then sold for conversion into a Mosque. The bias and outright loathing for traditional belief by this [censored] and the entire power structure of this former Christian church is just too sickening to tolerate.
14 posted on 11/19/2012 11:59:12 AM PST by SES1066 (Government is NOT the reason for my existence but it is the road to our ruin!)
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To: fwdude

As someone who was born and raised in the Episcopal Church, I can tell you that today’s “Episcopal Church” is not Christian, it is a cult. They don’t believe in the Bible, and that is just the start. They try to trick people into thinking they are Christian by their pseudo-Catholic rituals. But they are far less Christian than a group like the Mormons, for example.


15 posted on 11/19/2012 3:03:58 PM PST by kaehurowing
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To: SES1066

That presiding “Bishop” is nothing but a witch.

And I mean that in the religious sense. There is a very hot place in Hell reserved for her.


16 posted on 11/19/2012 3:42:07 PM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: joe fonebone
not in my town - they pay no mind to the ramblings of the modern liberals and continue to practice their faith according to that which was handed down from generations past. They are as Christ centered as any church in town.
17 posted on 11/19/2012 6:01:40 PM PST by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: joe fonebone
not in my town - they pay no mind to the ramblings of the modern liberals and continue to practice their faith according to that which was handed down from generations past. They are as Christ centered as any church in town.
18 posted on 11/19/2012 6:01:52 PM PST by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: ArGee

in pursuit of accuracy - there is more scripture read in each Episcopal worship service than most any other protestant service - OT, Psalm, Epistle and gospel.

It is from the pulpit and church polity that the problems emerge.


19 posted on 11/19/2012 6:14:47 PM PST by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I agree with G-Man. Paul was very much sola Scriptura. He argued from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ. I believe he probably spent the 3 days of his blindness reviewing the Scriptures that he had learned from Gamaliel in his mind.


20 posted on 11/19/2012 6:21:31 PM PST by ArGee (Reality - what a concept.)
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To: elpadre
You are correct, but reading Scripture and believing that Scripture teaches us what we need to know about God or our relationship to Him are two different things.

You might even say that Episcopalians are Bible worshiping, since they give it such a prominent place in their service, but without really granting it authority.

21 posted on 11/19/2012 6:25:07 PM PST by ArGee (Reality - what a concept.)
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To: ArGee
You're quite right that Paul was very much a man of the Torah. Though he was a skilled Scripture scholar and, as you've noted, a student of Gamaliel, he also had other sources of religious truth: the spoken word of the other Apostles, like Peter, whom he sincerely consulted and learned from; and the direct encounter with Jesus Christ after His Resurrection and Ascension.

So he wasn't just "Sola Scriptura." he was Scripture-plus. In addition to the written Word, he was enriched by the oral Apostolic tradition (preaching and teaching of the Eleven and others who knew Jesus well), and direct mystical contact with Christ.

He also respected the authority of the Council of Jerusalem, which, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, resolved disputed questions concerning the Gentile question. That's why Paul told Timothy that the Church, the Church itself, is the Foundationa and Pillar of the Truth. (Epistle to Timothy).

22 posted on 11/19/2012 6:48:55 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (I praise you because you hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you. -1 Cor 11:2)
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To: ArGee
I would never try to presume what goes on in an individual’s heart.

I do know many people of different denominations, including Episcopalians,who are faithful in worship, Bible study and doing God-work in the community. I would not put any of them down because of what the liberal wing does. Many denominations have been infiltrated by the left.

23 posted on 11/19/2012 8:17:15 PM PST by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Paul did not give the Apostles any credence until he had met with the risen Christ (Galatians 1). The entirety of the New Testament is confirmed int he Old Testament. That is why Luke complimented the Bereans for examining the Scriptures to prove everything they taught (Acts 17).

Paul looked to the council in Jerusalem to help guard the truth, but not to establish it. The idea that the Church establishes truth is a misinterpretation of the Timothy passage.

24 posted on 11/20/2012 5:16:32 AM PST by ArGee (Reality - what a concept.)
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To: elpadre
This is absolutely true. I have also met people who appear to know God, and people who appear not to know Him, in every denomination I've worked with.

That doesn't change the fact that the body itself has a faith and is subject to judgement. How else do you explain God judging Israel and Judah but saving a remnant of both?

25 posted on 11/20/2012 5:19:21 AM PST by ArGee (Reality - what a concept.)
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To: fwdude; BenKenobi; Mad Dawg

What is this guy still doing in the ECUSA?


26 posted on 11/20/2012 7:43:35 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: ArGee
I'm glad you're focusing on Paul here, because we'll agree on a great deal. It's true that Paul had to be given an extraordinary revelation of Christ before the gave the proper credibility to His Church. Saul was blinded to the divinely-established authority of the Church because of his longstanding prejudices.

There's a good insight to be gained here: the fact that Jesus said, "Saul, Saul! Why are you persecuting ME?" (Acts 9"4) ---when Saul was persecuting the Church --- shows the close identification Jesus Christ has with His Church, which is His body (Romans 10:9).

It is this identification, also, which makes the Church's teaching so reliable: we have Christ's own guarantee that "the gates of Hell would not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18)

Te Bereans, who commendably examined the Scriptures (Acts 17), would have well understood the "keys of the Kingdon" bestowed upon Peter as a sign of his necessary role in the Church, because the Bible uses a key as a symbol of authority.

Look at (Isaiah 22:22): "And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open."

We see Eliakim the priest receiving "the key of the house of David…on his shoulder."

And this persists, in the ongoing Petrine ministry of "strengthening the brethren", which is exercised in Jesus' name (Revelation 3:7): "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth."

Here's what it's all about: A trusted servant to the king wore the key to the king's house on a hook on his shoulder. Therefore, he had the authority to open or close the king's house.

When you ask whether the Church has the authority to "establish" the truth, you have to define closely whether you mean to "guard, maintain, unlock, explain" or whether you mean to "manufacture new truths." The answer must be the former: the Church has the authority to "establish" the truth in the sense of unlocking and unfolding the meaning of truths. The truth remains the same: our understanding becomes ever deeper, wider, and more appliable to our changing situations.

Public revelation came to an end with the death of the last Apostle, which would have been John's death in around 100 AD. Since then, the Church proceeds with confidence knowing that "the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." (John 16:13).

After all, Christ has not left the Church an orphan for 2,000 years. In view of the enlightening work of the Holy Spirit within His Church, Christ says, (Matthew 28:20) "Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

God bless you, ArGee!

27 posted on 11/20/2012 8:50:04 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (I praise you because you hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you. -1 Cor 11:2)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
We do agree on a great deal. I think the only thing you wrote that I would disagree with in any large sense is the idea that Jesus or the Apostles were engaged in revelation. They were primarily engaged in acting out the truths that had already been revealed. Jesus and the Apostles taught about God from existing Scriptures, not a new revelation.

I assume you're referring to the book of Revelation which does reveal events to come, but does not reveal any new truths about God, His Kingdom, or His relationship to us.

28 posted on 11/20/2012 9:31:29 AM PST by ArGee (Reality - what a concept.)
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To: ArGee
Ah. Thanks for your quick response. I admit this is a new one to me: the idea that Jesus and the Apostles only taught from existing (O.T.) Scriptures, with no new revelations.

If that's true, then it's hard go see why the Eternal Word was incarnate in the flesh, was crucified for our sins, rose on the third day, and ascended into heaven. The O.T. was incomplete, and many of its commandments set aside, as it says in the Book of Hebrews:

Heb 7:18-19 "For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God."

And he concludes,

"Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant."

And this is just what amazed peopel about Jesus:

Mark 1:27 "They were all amazed, so that they debated among themselves, saying, “What is this? A new teaching with authority! He commands even the unclean spirits, and they obey Him.”

So we must conclude that Jesus brought somehing new; in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit!

29 posted on 11/20/2012 10:49:03 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (I praise you because you hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you. -1 Cor 11:2)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
You should take the journey. It surprised me as well. My biggest surprise when I first read the entire Bible cover-to-cover (at the tender young age of 26) was everything that I found in the Old Testament that was a teaching of Jesus. I kept saying, "I thought Jesus taught this to change Judaism." Jesus didn't change Judaism, he re-directed it to its stated purpose. He also opened it to the Gentiles, which was also prophesied in the Old Testament.

The new covenant: Jeremiah 31:31-33 (ESV) "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The new teaching: I'll leave it to you to find a teaching that is new. Even on divorce, Jesus pointed back to the Law of Moses, but quoted from Genesis to explain that the Law of Moses was a concession, not God's intention.

Jesus had to die to fulfill what had been promised beforehand, not to teach it as something new.

30 posted on 11/20/2012 11:02:05 AM PST by ArGee (Reality - what a concept.)
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To: Cronos
It's a terrible conflict for a serious person. At the intellectual level, what enabled me to renounce my orders was the understanding that TEC does not -- is probably not able to -- form an intention. That is, the only person who expected me to keep my ordination promises was me (okay, and the pious laity, but none of the clergy), and that no "clear and distinct" (thank you, Descartes) and that TEC has no substantial and common notion of what the esse of sacerdos is. So I concluded the act was invalid by any objective standard. THEN I considered myself morally able to"renounce". Add that to status, career, income, etc., and I end up with a lot of compassion for the guys who can't screw their courage to the sticking point. And the anti-Catholic prejudice in all its depth ought not to be underestimated. In the years I was considered chucking it all and becoming a Zennie, it never occurred to be to become one of, ick, THEM.
31 posted on 11/21/2012 6:52:21 AM PST by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
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To: fwdude

why is this guy still in the ECUSA?


32 posted on 11/27/2012 5:15:21 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: elpadre

question, if I may — is your parish ECUSA? Or one of the Traditional Anglicans?


33 posted on 11/27/2012 5:24:39 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos

ECUSA - with old-timer priest in charge who openly states that the resolutions on sexuality will not be observed by him in this parish. All are welcome - but not their baggage.


34 posted on 11/27/2012 12:47:56 PM PST by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: elpadre
with old-timer priest in charge who openly states that the resolutions on sexuality will not be observed by him in this parish.

Wow!! More power to him. You should (and I'm sure you already do), praise God for this priest

But, how does he manage to disobey Bishop Gene and co and get away with it? Isn't there a mandate that he must follow the ECUSA's precepts?

May God bless you and this priest -- keep fighting!

35 posted on 11/27/2012 11:20:54 PM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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