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Killing The Goose (Sowell on Unions)
Creators Syndicate ^ | November 20, 2012 | Thomas Sowell

Posted on 11/19/2012 10:51:01 AM PST by jazusamo

Killing the goose that lays the golden egg is one of those old fairy tales for children which has a heavy message that a lot of adults should listen to. The labor unions which have driven the makers of Twinkies into bankruptcy, potentially destroying 18,500 jobs, could have learned a lot from that old children's fairy tale.

Many people think of labor unions as organizations to benefit workers, and think of employers who are opposed to unions as just people who don't want to pay their employees more money. But some employers have made it a point to pay their employees more than the union wages, just to keep them from joining a union.

Why would they do that, if it is just a question of not wanting to pay union wages? The Twinkies bankruptcy is a classic example of costs created by labor unions that are not confined to paychecks.

The work rules imposed in union contracts required the company that makes Twinkies, which also makes Wonder Bread, to deliver these two products to stores in separate trucks. Moreover, truck drivers were not allowed to load either of these products into their trucks. And the people who did load Twinkies into trucks were not allowed to load Wonder Bread, and vice versa.

All of this was obviously intended to create more jobs for the unions' members. But the needless additional costs that these make-work rules created ended up driving the company into bankruptcy, which can cost 18,500 jobs. The union is killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

Not only are there reasons for employers to pay their workers enough to keep them from joining unions, there are reasons why workers in the private sector have increasingly voted against joining unions...

(Excerpt) Read more at creators.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: hostess; jcsbthinktank; sowell; thomassowell; unions
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1 posted on 11/19/2012 10:51:08 AM PST by jazusamo
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To: jazusamo

I’m distressed by the fact that the emerging narrative on unions, (even among conservatives, and this is horrifying for what it means for the future of the country) seems to run like this,

“Public sector unions are REALLY bad. There are some bad things in private sector unions, too, but they aren’t pure evil like public sector unions. Private sector unions, especially at the turn of the century, were actually pretty good.”

This is pure BS! It is very, very, very scary when, even here on FR for Pete’s sake, people do not recognize the following two things:

Unions can ONLY!!!! exist because of government force applied selectively against private property owners (evil rich people),

ALL UNIONS REPRESENT GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED THEFT OF PRIVATE PROPERTY FOR THE PURPOSE OF BUYING DEMOCRAT VOTES.

I expect ignorance of this fact elsewhere, but here on FR??????????????????????

Here’s how the purely evil, anti-American, communistic, welfare-begging private sector unions work…..

I set up a business, using MY PRIVATE PROPERTY (my capital and/or cash money).
I pay for the space, using MY PRIVATE PROPERTY.
I pay the taxes using MY PRIVATE PROPERTY.
I supply the parts and inventory, using MY PRIVATE PROPERTY.
I pay for the insurance, using MY PRIVATE PROPERTY.
I pay the labor, using MY PRIVATE PROPERTY.
I recruit, hire, and advertise, using MY PRIVATE PROPERTY.
Oftentimes an entire life’s savings (MY PRIVATE PROPERTY) is at stake.
My future, my standing in the community, my credit, and MY PRIVATE PROPERTY are all at stake.
If I fail, I stand a good chance of being economically crippled for life.

One day, on MY PRIVATE PROPERTY that I own and acquired using MY PRIVATE PROPERTY, one of my employees, who is only in my presence because of the risk of MY PRIVATE PROPERTY, comes to me and says, “Here’s the story, Bub. From this moment forward I am going to begin organizing YOUR OTHER EMPLOYEES, to work AGAINST YOUR PRIVATE INTERESTS and do everything in our power to TAKE BY FORCE AS MUCH OF YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY AS WE CAN GET OUR HANDS ON. We are going to spend a great deal of time and effort ORGANIZING AGAINST YOUR INTERESTS TO DO EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER TO GROW STRONGER AT YOUR EXPENSE, IN ORDER TO TAKE YOUR MONEY. You might as well have your business competitors working here on the shop floor. If you do not agree to our demands, we will go on strike, make your life miserable, harass and threaten and/or MURDER IN COLD BLOOD anybody you may want to hire in our place.”

Now the one and ONLY way that such a thing could EVER take place is for the government to step in and say, “Mr. Employer (rich, white, capitalist, male), if you fire this union man, you are going to jail.”

Plainly and simply, no union could ever exist in a free society. Yes, in a free society, you should be able to form and join a union of any type at any time for any purpose whatsoever. AND YOUR EMPLOYER SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIRE YOUR HAPPY ASS IN A HEARTBEAT FOR DOING SO.

FREEDOM IS A TWO WAY STREET.

I find this ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. Truly. A man strolls onto the PRIVATE PROPERTY of another man and tells him how he will employ his PRIVATE PROPERTY going forward, OR ELSE!, and hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people the world over think that the first man is not only somehow better than sub-human filth, they actually see him as a hero! To me, this is one of the most perverse and mystifying examples of twisted human thinking the world has ever seen. I can’t say it enough; you come onto my PRIVATE PROPERTY, and bargain with me, using the THREAT OF GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED FORCE, about how much of my PRIVATE PROPERTY you will allow me to keep! And this is somehow acceptable?

As I say, even conservatives, (who have escaped the liberal brainwashing that begins when we are still in the womb on guns, race, US history, etc., etc., and do not subscribe to the easy notions that are so readily picked up by the unthinking) seem to fall for this trap. Seem to believe that…

“The work place is filled with mean managers and mean bosses who were/are really mean to kids and women and workers and paid them pennies instead of the legitimate millions that they were REALLY worth, making evil white male capitalists even richer, and they enslaved them and coerced them and made them work real hard and were really, really mean. THANK GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for the government stepping in and saving women and children from mean bosses and really mean white capitalist men.”

Needless to say, each and every single word of that narrative is as totally false and ridiculous as the liberal narrative on US history, or bad guns, or evil white men. If you know people who believe that stuff, you cannot help them. DO NOT waste your breath on them, DO NOT do their research for them; have them read Sowell or Williams or von Hayek, or von Mises, or Friedman, or even Stossel when they write of “sweatshops” either in today’s 3rd world or in America at the turn of the century.


2 posted on 11/19/2012 10:53:41 AM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: abigail2; Amalie; American Quilter; arthurus; awelliott; Bahbah; bamahead; Battle Axe; ...
*PING*
Thomas Sowell

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Recent columns
The Need to Explain
Is Demography Destiny?
Nice Losers

Please FReepmail me if you would like to be added to or removed from the Thomas Sowell ping list…

3 posted on 11/19/2012 10:54:02 AM PST by jazusamo ("Intellect is not wisdom" -- Thomas Sowell)
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To: abigail2; Amalie; American Quilter; arthurus; awelliott; Bahbah; bamahead; Battle Axe; ...
*PING*
Thomas Sowell

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Recent columns
The Need to Explain
Is Demography Destiny?
Nice Losers

Please FReepmail me if you would like to be added to or removed from the Thomas Sowell ping list…

4 posted on 11/19/2012 10:55:13 AM PST by jazusamo ("Intellect is not wisdom" -- Thomas Sowell)
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To: Doctor 2Brains

” Plainly and simply, no union could ever exist in a free society. Yes, in a free society, you should be able to form and join a union of any type at any time for any purpose whatsoever. AND YOUR EMPLOYER SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIRE YOUR HAPPY ASS IN A HEARTBEAT FOR DOING SO.”

Bingo


5 posted on 11/19/2012 11:02:17 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: jazusamo

In nature as in our lives, parasites can kill the host(ess).


6 posted on 11/19/2012 11:02:50 AM PST by BipolarBob (The first thirty years of my childhood were less than desirable.)
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To: jazusamo

Public sector unions have to be dissolved.


7 posted on 11/19/2012 11:04:58 AM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: jazusamo

How ironic that the hero of this fable was named “Simpleton”.


8 posted on 11/19/2012 11:06:27 AM PST by South40 ("Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance." - Barack Hussein Obama - Cairo, Egypt, June 4, 2009.)
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To: jazusamo

I think there are times when unions have done good, in improving working conditions and safety and such, but like civil rights groups and such, there is no need for their indefinite existence. Much of that oversight is done by the gov now anyway.


9 posted on 11/19/2012 11:06:46 AM PST by DonaldC (A nation cannot stand in the absence of religious principle.)
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To: onyx
Public sector unions have to be dissolved.

Absolutely...Dr. Sowell lays out the problem with them perfectly, the public sector unions are breaking the taxpayers.

10 posted on 11/19/2012 11:11:17 AM PST by jazusamo ("Intellect is not wisdom" -- Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo
I liked Ding Dongs but I purchased Swiss Rolls due to price. Twinkies are nothing more than pound cake. You have cheaper brands. I will pay $1.27 for a loaf of bread. I have been burnt several times by there bread.
11 posted on 11/19/2012 11:11:46 AM PST by Domangart
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Please bump the Freepathon or click above and donate or become a monthly donor!

12 posted on 11/19/2012 11:13:46 AM PST by jazusamo ("Intellect is not wisdom" -- Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo

When the baby boomers are all gone the states may have to look at budgets a little differently.


13 posted on 11/19/2012 11:14:50 AM PST by Sunshine Sister
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To: Doctor 2Brains
Unions can ONLY!!!! exist because of government force applied selectively against private property owners (evil rich people),

This is simply not true. There is reason for collective bargaining, even from the perspective of the employer; else companies like ManPower and ADP would not exist. The factory owner would rather not deal with personnel details.

There were real problems before the union movement that primarily stemmed from abuse of the courts via the Santa Clara v. Southern Pacific interpretation of the 14th Amendment of corporations as persons. People without money had no recourse in civil cases against such large entities.

The real problem with unions is monopoly power. If we restructured the NRLA such that unions were corporations competing in the business of supplying skilled labor, a lot of these problems would vanish.

From what I can tell, you don't think free association is an unalienable right.

14 posted on 11/19/2012 11:28:42 AM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: jazusamo

Precisely, and the RATS are their enablers and that’s why RATS control CA and other big states, all of which are going BROKE or already broke.


15 posted on 11/19/2012 11:32:04 AM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: Carry_Okie

What has ManPower and ADP got to do with unions? I don’t see any connection.

Santa Clara, 14th amendment, civil cases, NRLA, unions = competing corporations???? Smokescreens.

How’s this for a solution — If I am on your private property, your rules apply. Period.


16 posted on 11/19/2012 11:40:55 AM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: onyx; Jim Robinson; jazusamo
Public sector unions have to be dissolved.

As do private sector unions. All unions are unadulterated evil as stated so well by jazusamo in the second post of this thread. That was true in years past, today and in the future. The rise of unionism in America was due to foreign socialist influences, as revealed by the IWW ("Wobblies").

The leftist narrative builds falsehoods around such manufactured incidents as the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory of 1911. Similarly, liberal-infested Hollywood paints oh-so-sympathetic fairy tales in such movies as Matewan and Norma Rae.

Quite simply, unions are a collectivist cartel with Big Labor nothing more than an organized crime extortion racket. The full force of RICO laws should be brought down hard to exterminate every last vestige of this anti-American, anti-liberty evil force.

UNIONISM IS SLAVERY!

Jim Robinson said it best in post #249:

Unionists be damned!! Unite against the damned unionists!!

17 posted on 11/19/2012 11:41:02 AM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: re_nortex

“As do private sector unions. All unions are unadulterated evil as stated so well by jazusamo in the second post of this thread.”

I think you mean “stated so well by ME, DR2Brains!”

That’s cool. I forgive you.


18 posted on 11/19/2012 11:43:04 AM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: Domangart

That’s what I keep saying. These Hostess brands are nearly double the price of the competitors. I don’t buy this stuff often but when I did, I never bought the Hostess stuff.


19 posted on 11/19/2012 11:48:20 AM PST by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: Doctor 2Brains
You're right. Unlike a union member, I want to give full credit where it is due. Your initial post and followups in this thread are must reading for all of those who truly embrace liberty and the free market system of American enterprise.

I take a no compromise stand when it comes to unions. And, as I have posted elsewhere here on Free Republic, among the top three moments of my long life are when I led a successful rebellion to bust a private sector union in the Big Labor stronghold of Western Pennsylvania more than 30 years ago.

20 posted on 11/19/2012 11:48:47 AM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: re_nortex

You busted a union! I bow in admiration, dude. Good work.

And thanks for the kind words.


21 posted on 11/19/2012 11:51:06 AM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: re_nortex; Doctor 2Brains
IMO, private sector unions are little more than criminal organizations run by the likes of true criminals such as Trumka.

Obama’s NLRB has probably done more for their criminal enterprises than most any other president in the last 60 or 70 years. One more reason that the reelection of Obama will hurt our country tremendously in the future.

22 posted on 11/19/2012 12:02:44 PM PST by jazusamo ("Intellect is not wisdom" -- Thomas Sowell)
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To: Doctor 2Brains
You busted a union! I bow in admiration, dude. Good work.

Thank you. Unfortunately, it was just one union that I and a group of Patriots were able to get decertified.

It was my reaction to how the evil forces allied around Big Labor busted an entire region. Western Pennsylvania once was the arsenal of the world, with steel mills and coal mines working 'round the clock. Both employees and employers prospered. Then, inevitably, unionists (under the control of anti-American, anti-growth socialists) killed that goose of prosperity. The alphabet soup regimes of the USWA (Iorwith Wilbur Abel), UMW (Tony Boyle), IBEW ( Gordy Freeman) and numerous others put ridiculous workplace rules as well as obscene salaries and benefits into action. This crippled not only the steel and mining companies but the dependent industries. What remains today of Wheeling, Steubenville, Weirton, Pittsburgh, Johnstown and the entire Mon Valley is a testament to the destructive nature of unions.

23 posted on 11/19/2012 12:10:35 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: jazusamo

There is no “problem” on Earth (some still insist that there were “problems” that unions helped fix) that justifies the creation of these monstrosities that funnel 100 BAZILLION FREAKIN’ DOLLARS TO THE DEMS EVER 10 MINUTES. Dems are in office and they get literally BILLIONS from unions — now THAT’s a PROBLEM!


24 posted on 11/19/2012 12:12:46 PM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: jazusamo; Doctor 2Brains
IMO, private sector unions are little more than criminal organizations run by the likes of true criminals such as Trumka.

That's not merely an opinion, it's an undeniable fact!

We're all in agreement about the nature of unionism and my hope is that this reaches a broader audience of FReepers who may still remain moderate on the issue of Big Labor (as Doctor 2Brains made clear in his post).

The names associated with the labor movement in the past and present constitute a rogue's gallery of evil.

None of them were or are pro-American. Instead they all sought (and most were, unfortunately, successful) to stifle America's economic might through absurd regulation (giving rise to OHSA and the EPA to name but two) and confiscatory wages. La Cosa Nostra has been neutralized for the most part but the far more powerful and richer organized crime consortium known as Big Labor continues to drain our nation of wealth.

25 posted on 11/19/2012 12:23:59 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: Doctor 2Brains
What has ManPower and ADP got to do with unions? I don’t see any connection.

Everything, they are equivalent to what unions would be without monopoly power.

Santa Clara, 14th amendment, civil cases, NRLA, unions = competing corporations???? Smokescreens.

Two brains is inverted. If you had half a brain you would realize the those historic robber barons only existed because of collectivism. They are not and never should have been PRIVATE because they are not equivalent to people, and do not possess unalienable rights of human beings. In fact, that corporations are allotted human rights at all is due to an historical act of monstrous corruption. I don't suppose you'd like to know it was done by a communist lawyer on behalf of progressivist Republicans. That's why I referred to the headnote on Santa Clara v. Southern Pacific. Your hand-waving in reply merely exposes your ignorance. Unions are nothing more than a contract among equals. Where that breaks down is that, as corporations, they are afforded an unqual degree of protection under the NRLA granting them exemption from monopoly laws. That should be changed.

How’s this for a solution — If I am on your private property, your rules apply. Period.

Oh, so I can take your money, rape your wife, and kill you just because you are on my property?

Idiot, you clearly don't have half a brain much less two. You cannot commit murder on your property. You cannot steal my money on your property. You cannot rape my wife on your property. You cannot.

That's what laws are for, as enforced by the people or their agents. People associate to exert power as an unalienable right, as the essence of 'governments instituted among men.' Liberty is expressed individually, but it is enforced collectively. Deal with it.

26 posted on 11/19/2012 12:26:27 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: Carry_Okie

You’re an idiot liberal. Deal with it.


27 posted on 11/19/2012 12:43:50 PM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: jazusamo

Unions are like fire. A very useful servent, a very dangerous master.

And the bigger they get, the harder it is to control.


28 posted on 11/19/2012 1:07:56 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Doctor 2Brains
You’re an idiot liberal.

Oooo... aren't you smart! Can't think outside the Hegelian box the socialists made for you.

I'm no liberal. I never said I opposed right to work laws. I don't. It's you who's the collectivist here: You want the public to protect collectivized investments with minimized accountability, while refusing workers the very same right to a free association no different than among stockholders. You want to socialize the risks and privatize the benefits of your investments. A classic double standard.

I don't want EITHER side to have monopoly or even oligopoly power. I prefer FULLY private free enterprise, in other words, with real accountability via laws governed by natural law competition among the several States and not by the Feds, the latter being effectively one stop shopping for corruption. I want human beings to have rights superior to any association, union or corporate. You simply lack the vision to understand the distinctions or the solutions I posited, stuck in your bull-headed rut labeling anyone who disagrees with you a "liberal." Well here's reality turkey, your corporate game was instituted by a communist, John Chandler Bancroft Davis, Clerk of the Supreme Court, a Republican, and a Marxist when he added a bogus headnote to the decision of the Court in Santa Clara v. Southern Pacific.

Yeah, I know, you don't get it, Hegel's got your brain by the lobes. Yet corporate socialism and Marxism both comprise a system devised and funded by some of the richest bankers in Europe. Hence, you are the leftist here, you just don't know it.

29 posted on 11/19/2012 1:09:28 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: Doctor 2Brains
Oops, wrong link. This is the discussion that exposits on the doings of Mr. Davis.
30 posted on 11/19/2012 1:11:49 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: Carry_Okie

You’re an idiot liberal. Deal with it.


31 posted on 11/19/2012 1:12:45 PM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: Carry_Okie

You’re an idiot liberal. Deal with it.


32 posted on 11/19/2012 1:13:49 PM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: Doctor 2Brains

THAT WAS AWESOME! I hope you don’t mind, but I reposted the majority of that on my FB page. Should probably get some panties in a bunch, and start some fur a flyin!


33 posted on 11/19/2012 1:40:34 PM PST by Mama Shawna
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To: redgolum

No Unions are like disease...... never useful...


34 posted on 11/19/2012 1:47:46 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: Mama Shawna

Well! I am flattered. Thank you.


35 posted on 11/19/2012 1:52:18 PM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: Carry_Okie; Doctor 2Brains
Unions can ONLY!!!! exist because of government force applied selectively against private property owners (evil rich people),

This is simply not true. There is reason for collective bargaining, even from the perspective of the employer; else companies like ManPower and ADP would not exist. The factory owner would rather not deal with personnel details.

Unions in their current form would not exist without government force applied against property owners. That does not imply that there would not be any form of collective bargaining. Trade guilds could engage in collective bargaining to the benefit of both workers and employers, if such guilds were in a position where their continued existence relied upon their ability to do so. If a trade guild refuses to accept or retain members who are not good workers, employers who hire workers from the guild would likely pay extra for doing so, but might find it easier to get quality workers than if they search for workers outside the guild. Of course, the more tolerant the guild is of bad workers, the less advantage employers would see to hiring them, and the less money the guild would be able to demand for its workforce.

One thing that I wish more people would realize is that the real battle isn't between workers and employers, whose interest substantially overlap. The real battle is between union workers and non-union (actual or prospective) workers.

36 posted on 11/19/2012 3:54:22 PM PST by supercat (Renounce Covetousness.)
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To: BipolarBob
"In nature as in our lives, parasites can kill the host(ess)."

Well played!!

37 posted on 11/19/2012 4:00:02 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias... "Barack": Allah's current ally...)
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To: Doctor 2Brains

He busted a union and all the jobs went to communist China.


38 posted on 11/19/2012 4:06:25 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: supercat
One thing that I wish more people would realize is that the real battle isn't between workers and employers, whose interest substantially overlap. The real battle is between union workers and non-union (actual or prospective) workers.

Disagree there. I think the unions have done a fabulous job of serving the interests of the international banking interests that spawned them. They have forced exportation of our nation's manufacturing infrastructure (essentially a form of intellectual property) for fun and profit. Our enemies now possess the latest information to make everything from screw machines to plastic resin synthesis. Unions have facilitated taking America into socialist dictatorship from the top down. In that respect they are almost as damaging as environmental and safety regulations.

Hence, the real battle is between collectivism and private enterprise.

39 posted on 11/19/2012 4:46:45 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party: advancing indenture since 1787.)
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To: jazusamo

Free trade in labor markets is a human right. Unions never got the memo.


40 posted on 11/19/2012 5:42:12 PM PST by 4Liberty (Some on our "Roads & Bridges" head to the beach. Others head to their offices, farms, libraries....)
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To: Doctor 2Brains

“You’re an idiot liberal. Deal with it.”

Perhaps you are getting a tad excited, Doctor. Take a tranquilizer and once it takes effect consider the following:
1. Whatever Carry_Okie may be, an idiot he assuredly isn’t. Hint, think standards of deviation above normal, more than just one, too.
2. Remember what Darbyshire said about life being an IQ test?
3. Carry_Okie is a master of multi-disciplinary arguments, though he (and I) tend to prefer the more correct term ‘hypothesis’.
4. The issue of corporations is a complex one, loaded with intellectual traps, an issue where things really are not as they seem.
5. In the instant case of Hostess v. Goonion, the Chinese have a saying about only a foolish man breaks his own rice bowl.
6. Thanks to Big Gubbamnet, the strikers can collect unemployment even though they are unemployed by the consequences of their own acts.


41 posted on 11/19/2012 7:21:49 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: jazusamo; PieterCasparzen; rodguy911; All

Thanks for this thread.

__________

FYI Pings.


42 posted on 11/19/2012 7:31:03 PM PST by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Doctor 2Brains
You have not learned the lesson.

YOU DID NOT BUILD THAT

43 posted on 11/19/2012 7:40:05 PM PST by Texas Songwriter ( i)
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To: BipolarBob
In nature as in our lives, parasites can kill the host(ess).

Remember only unsuccessful parasites kill their host. The successful parasites coexist with the host.

44 posted on 11/19/2012 7:42:15 PM PST by Texas Songwriter ( i)
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To: central_va
He busted a union and all the jobs went to communist China.

That's not what happened at all.

When the union left our company, profits improved and management was able to upsize the staff. The adversarial relationship between we workers and the bosses vanished. Additionally, the burdensome work regulations that actually were detrimental to the employees were eliminated. For example, the turnaround time rule was tossed, allowing those of us who desired to work additional hours with some nice paychecks.

The deadwood was eliminated. Over a period of months, just about all of those who voted in favor of unionism during the decertification election were fired. I'll confess to taking real glee when a 25-year vet of the company was dismissed. He was a bad seed from the get-to, a featherbedder who thought tenure and seniority were his protection. When I engaged in the action to bust the union, this hateful creep uttered these words: "I was here when you got here and I'll be here when you leave". The Na-Na-Hey-Hey-Goodbye song was popular around that time and we who were loyal to the American spirit of free enterprise gave that union goon a serenade as he slinked out the door for good. This guy and his fellow unionistas were the real communist sympathizers since they favored collectivism.

45 posted on 11/19/2012 7:45:32 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: re_nortex

Hostess Shrugged.

Good for them.


46 posted on 11/19/2012 9:18:08 PM PST by wolfman
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To: GladesGuru; Doctor 2Brains; jazusamo; Carry_Okie; re_nortex; supercat; Graewoulf
As a college dropout I'm not armed with certification of my superiority, so, I can only offer my words. They'll have to struggle on their own.

If I outsource work to a company that provides labor services, it only seems right that I would negotiate, define jobs, pay, evaluate, etc., and deal with my outsourcer company as a company. I am dealing, however, with another business. Myofficebuilding is buying cleaning services from hiscleaningservices, etc.

If the company I own has a need to fill individual jobs, i.e., clerk, machinist, bottle-washer, etc., and I advertise for and hire individual people for the individual jobs, it stands to reason that I would negotiate, define jobs, pay, evaluate, etc., and deal with the individuals as individuals.

If one day these people all march into my office and announce they've decided they are stopping work completely in an effort to extort more money out of me, it stands to reason that I would be well within my rights to fire them all, temporarily close the store and hire all new employees. This is because nowhere did each of them and myself agree, when I hired the individuals, that I would deal with them as a unified gang. They all knew that each of them had their own job and employee relationship with my company in terms of duties, evaluation and compensation. And there's this weird old legal tradition called a contract. And something about an agreement made under duress not being valid. Seems sensible, right ? Someone holds a gun to my head and says "sign". Am I gonna play Jack Benny ?

The big evil corporation, a.k.a., the Robber Baron... (cue music)

In the old days, society was much less mobile than today. Moving to a new town meant establishing a reputation. It could be, in some small towns, difficult for strangers to find a room, cash a check, etc. So in the case of one big company having a "company town", employees, one could argue, were unable to quit a job they were unhappy with and pick up and move and find a new job. This put them in a difficult situation and subjected them to "terrible" working conditions that "heartless" factory owners would impose on them. Trouble is, that argument, neglects to mention the fact that life in general was extremely rough compared to today, and even in "good" jobs people would work six days a week and more than 8 hours a day. Farmers (most of the population early on) were used to working very hard with only Sundays (the Lord's Day) off, and society functioned in all segments with hierarchical, paternal authority, which was accompanied by expected mutual respect and responsibility by all decent people and even in some form by the less polite parts of society.

Very few decades ago I worked from before the time I went to school in my father's machine shop; the first machine I remember was a tapping machine.

I know what it's like to do excruciatingly boring and tiring work for long hours, and watch the minutes on the clock tick by. I'll never give a cr@p about a goldbricker's whining because I've experienced the blessing of hard work and it's just part of life.

It is wise - and should be considered normal - to have an industrious, thrifty and respectful population. There are always idiots and wiseguys that are fired because they idiotically do dangerous and counter-productive things. If they keep getting demoted and wind up floorsweeper, and can't manage to do that, they're out the door.

Everyone paid piece work back in the day. My mother could do several times the production of a typical worker: if the average was 1,000 parts per day, she'd make 3,000, and all safely with no rejects and without damaging the equipment. This and my own experience is clear evidence to me that productivity varies.

Norma Rae to our rescue (but she failed Econ 101)...

Unions repeat the worn-out lie that fools so many people: same pay for same work.

The intelligentsia of America should understand simple arithmetic, logic, physics, human characteristics, etc., enough to understand that there is no way on God's green earth that everyone will have the same productivity level. Anyone with half a brain knows that individual productivity varies - even a given person's productivity typically varies from day to day.

Now, I don't need to be a Biblical scholar to understand God's law word enough to know that if Johnny, at the end of each week, makes 50% more production than Bobby, then Johnny has to see something extra in his pay to compensate him for higher production.

Immediately when "same pay" is implemented - what do you get ? Same work ! Most people are employees, so their mind focuses on the word "pay", not "work". The business owner finds out though - every employee's productivity magically gets to be as close as possible to that of the least productive employee. Everyone can catch on to that situation: why would I do any more than the other guy if we're being paid the exact same wage ? And the slow guy simply can only go as fast as he can go.

The very idea of "same pay for same work" is a subversive weapon that wreaks havoc on the nation's productive capacity.

*********************** commercial break
for a fun movie about a very important person in the history of manufacturing...
Watch the 1950 movie Cheaper By The Dozen starring Clifton Webb and Mryna Loy
***********************

Contrary to the subversive myth, increased productivity does not put money only in the employer's pocket. It makes employees more profitable (lower cost relative to output) to employ as well. As long as employees are mobile, wages will then tend to increase. If there is competition in the marketplace for goods and services produced, as productivity increases, lower costs will push prices lower. Voila - productivity increases tend to cause higher pay and lower prices, or what you and I would call an increased standard of living. Exactly the opposite effect of forcibly extracting higher wages while lowering productivity, which results in a decreasing standard of living.

Back to our poor, tired huddled masses that worked in factories under such "terrible labor conditions", their life stories did not all end like the labor textbooks say. They leave out a whole bunch of stories. People who worked at low-paying, menial jobs, under bosses who wanted good work done, lots of it, and save your smart alecky comments for the street (capable men with jobs to do don't care to hear that). And guess what these people did. They did change jobs. They did pick up and move. Story after story, time after time, family after family. We move to here, we moved to there, pappa got a job here, poppa opened a little shop there.

Reading list...

The book Titan (I need to read it with a few grains of salt) generally gives great insights into Rockefeller, Sr., a man vastly misunderstood (if one is not congnizant of Christian doctrine many of his motivations can't be accurately understood). The man started out as a clerk in a store and did not inherit wealth to get started. He earned the respect of his employers and the business community as a young man and was only able to get started because of his frugality and attention to detail. I can't recommend that book enough for those interested in the history of business.

Another guy to read a biography of, of course, is Carnegie, who started out with literally a few bucks in his pocket. He was a telegraph delivery boy who had the sense to start paying attention to what was going on while he worked.

The Greatest Wealth Accumulation Story, back to Econ 101...

But for every very wealthy person who rose out of poverty, there were countless thousands who merely rose to the middle class. They simply were not enslaved to consumer debt if they managed to save and invest. Consumer debt that induced the working poor to enslaving themselves to it in those days was, of course, the customer account at company and other stores. The idea of people having a right to uncollateralized credit was a 20th century invention that has lured millions to be trapped in a spiral of spending and debt.

I think it's obvious business owners are not all identical and will function as employers with varying degrees of likability from an employee's standpoint. Of course, the worst employers sometimes do such nasty things that one could well understand their employees forming into grumbling gangs. So while I don't condone unions, I understand where they came from. But they are the agitator-inspired band-aid for the symptom of the true problem to be fixed: the dysfunctional business. Think about it (way back to business 101 in the hazy past)... let's see... who is supposed to tackle dysfunctional business correction. Hmm... we've got a free enterprise economy... Anyone ?... Anyone ?... Bueller ? Right - competition. That rascal. Dadgumit. So if we have a company town with a gargantuan factory and no other employment opportunities...

If we instead had dozens or hundreds of smaller companies that each had a factory... golly, they'd be competing for the most productive employees.

Now what of corporations viewed as people, shall we all cry a tear if things can't be our way ? In some ways they logically must be viewed as a legal entity; the only reason to have them is to limit liability associated with a particular business endeavor to that endeavor. If I own an ice cream store, a farm and a roller rink, and have differnet partners in each - they are treated as separate entities so that the farm having a drought doesn't bankrupt the profitable ice cream store and the break even roller rink along with itself.

A corporation can open a bank account and so can a person. But would it make any sense if your ex's corporation sues for custody of your child ? Well, dear, I don't want custody, I don't want you to have custody, let's let the company raise our child.

May we heed the word of God and be humble...

Ecclesiastes 9

"14 There was a little city, and few men within it; and there came a great king against it, and besieged it, and built great bulwarks against it:
15 Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same poor man.
16 Then said I, Wisdom is better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are not heard.
17 The words of wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools.
18 Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good."
47 posted on 11/20/2012 1:46:53 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: GladesGuru

He’s an idiot liberal.


48 posted on 11/20/2012 6:21:05 AM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: PieterCasparzen

Fabulous. I DID read the whole thing.


49 posted on 11/20/2012 6:29:43 AM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: Doctor 2Brains

Mere repetion is no substitute for either insight or hard data.


50 posted on 11/20/2012 8:01:40 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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