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Military Suicides 'Out of Control'
The Northwest Florida Daily News Herald ^ | Monday, November 19, 2012 | Randal Yakey

Posted on 11/20/2012 8:34:10 AM PST by kristinn

CALLAWAY — Libby Busbee pounded on the window of her son’s maroon Dodge Charger as he sat in the driveway of their home earlier this year. Locked inside his car, U.S. Army Spc. William Busbee sat with a .45-caliber gun pointed to the side of his head.

“Look at me,” his mother cried out as she tried to get her son’s attention. “Look at me.”

He wouldn’t look.

He stared out the front windshield, distant, Busbee said, relating the story from an apartment complex in Callaway.

“I kept yelling, ‘Don’t you do this. Don’t do it.’ He wouldn’t turn his head to look at me,” she said, looking down at the burning cigarette in her hand.

A 911 call was made. The police pulled her away from the car.

William, Libby Busbee’s 23-year-old son, was talking with a police officer when he fired a shot through the front windshield of his car, according to the police report.

The police recoiled. William rapped on the window in apparent frustration, the report indicated.

Then the second shot was heard.

“I knew that was the one,” said Libby Busbee.

William Busbee took his life in March with his mother and sisters looking on.

Casualty of war?

William Busbee was no casualty of the war in Afghanistan. He was a casualty of his own mind, his mother said.

Libby Busbee bowed her head, talking as she sat next to a bird-of-paradise on the front porch of her apartment. She could no longer live in the home on 12th Street.

“They wouldn’t let me talk to him,” she said, referring to the day her son shot himself. “I know if he was able to see me he wouldn’t have done it.”

According to a Veterans Affairs report this spring, a veteran commits suicide every 80 minutes. More than 6,500 suicides have occurred since the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan began. For every service member who dies in battle, 25 veterans die by their own hands.

According to a Pentagon report, more American active service members have killed themselves in the first six months of 2012 than in the first six months of any of the previous 11 years, The Associated Press reported.

The report reveals 154 service members killed themselves in the first 155 days of 2012 alone. The number of deaths by suicide is 50 percent higher than combat deaths in Afghanistan during the same period and an 18 percent increase over active service member suicides in the first six months of 2011.

And, while only 1 percent of Americans have served in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, veterans of these conflicts represent 20 percent of all suicides in the United States, the VA reported.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: crapmanderinchief; democratsdemoralize; military; oefveterans; oifveterans; ptsd; suicide; suicides; wot
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To: libertarian27

The suicide warnings on psychoactive medication should be looked at very closely and why aren’t they?

51 posted on 11/20/2012 9:20:01 AM PST by Slyfox
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To: manc
Some truth in there.

I know a kid who got out the Marines recently. All he does is plot how he can get disability and has similar recently discharged friends who all scheme together.

One scheme they mentioned is claiming tinnitus and what to tell the audiologist doing the testing.


52 posted on 11/20/2012 9:22:41 AM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: kristinn

I think this problems stems from a convergence of several things. Many young men have grown up without fathers. Even when there is a father figure it may be some metrosexual, PC wus of a man.

Government schools are filled with PC bull crap and no tolerance policies that do not even let boys get a little bloodied in a fist fight.

As a nation we no longer clearly identify our enemies and then vilify them. In WWII we fought against Japs and Krauts. In Vietnam we fought against Gooks. The effect of dehumanizing our enemies is a coping mechanism for the horrors of battle.

As a nation we are not willing to quickly destroy our enemy and we have hideous rules of engagement. This has resulted in multiple deployments, increased stress on military families and soldiers and marines have increased exposure to front lines compared to previous wars.

We need to teach boys to be men instead of focusing on being nice and accepting of faggots. Political correctness needs to be eliminated. Our enemy needs to defined. It is Islam and anyone that is part of that death cult. I don’t care how nice anyone’s Muslim friend is, they still worship a pedophile prophet and pray in the direction of a space rock. It is not a religion. Our war against Islam needs to be brief and brutal. They will never like us, but we can force them to submit to our will. They will fear us and at most respect us. If we don’t, they will certainly do it to us.

53 posted on 11/20/2012 9:22:49 AM PST by ConservativeInPA (It is impossible to have a good faith negotiations with terrorists or any Muslim.)
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To: yldstrk
IMHO it isn't just the horrors of war.

Add to the horrors the fact that most of the troops fighting are facing an equally horrible reality - they will be going back into that crucible time and time again. Granted the tours of duty aren't that long individually but they add up very quickly. The final straw is they, the troops, known that there is no end in sight - they will return time and time again until either killed or so severely wounded that they are retired.

This feeling and the under laying facts aren't new. A much smaller precursor was seen at the tail end of Vietnam. It was national policy that no SAC asset would be in SEA long enough to achieve short-tour credit (6 months plus a day). Until January 1972 this wasn't a serious problem. Then came BULLET SHOT. Between January 1972 and October 1973 SAC personnel were rotated in and out of SEA on a 165 day cycle. They came home for 30 to 45 days went right back, repeatedly. Me, I had only 2 of those in a year. Friends that I went through school with were working on their fourth one in Oct 73. The divorce rates went sky high, retention dropped like a rock, and moral issues were rift. While I am unaware of any suicides I am very confident that this was lurking in the back of many minds. How else could they escape from the pressures they were experiencing?

54 posted on 11/20/2012 9:23:03 AM PST by Nip (BOHEICA and TANSTAAFL - both seem very appropriate today.)
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To: manc

“First the people joining are good people but some are not suited and should not be in the military, PC is killing the military.”

There is your answer. It is WHO they military is trying to recruit, not what happens to them after they join up. I know people that have to work the behavioral health centers for the military and their take is that the military seems to be getting a lot of crybabies, the ‘Gen X/Y/WhyMe’ crowd. As a corporate person I see this, too. If you don’t pat these kids on the head every day and tell them what good boys and girls they are they have ‘meltdowns’, just like they did when they were little kids. No personal discipline whatsoever, just the Dr. Spock routine. If these kids took a dump on the living room rug mommy would pat them on the head and say, “Gosh, bobby, I hope you can make the bathroom next time.”

55 posted on 11/20/2012 9:23:09 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: manc

Admit it? That was and is the left’s GOAL!!!

56 posted on 11/20/2012 9:24:13 AM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: dfwgator

“Every war ever since, has been a case of only a few actually fighting, and back home, it was far from united, as we saw with Vietnam.”

Since WWII we have also never fought all out to destroy the enemy once and for all, as quickly and efficiently as possible.

57 posted on 11/20/2012 9:24:37 AM PST by Psalm 144 (For Chicken Little the sky is always falling.)
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To: Salamander

I have attended many of the American Psychiatric Association’s lectures and programs put on by the head psychiatrists at Walter Reed and other research facilities. I follow the military suicide report daily and have for a long time. It is frustrating that the military has done little except push pills.

One of the big problems is that the soldiers know that if they speak to a psychiatrist, they are gone. The Marines refer to psychiatrists as “Wizards” as they make soldiers disappear! Top that off with the 180 day supply of benzo’s they have been giving soldiers in the field and you have created an accident waiting to happen.

I spoke with a psychiatrist from Ft. Hood who was leaving. She mentioned that the normal staffing was 12 psychiatrists and when she left, there would be 4 remaining. Granted, this is where the psychiatrist shot the soldiers after not being able to find the Head Psychiatrist who would not block his being sent to Afghanistan.

The primary problem is due to the development of self that current soldiers have that was not the case in past wars. I spoke of this when I presented to a military think tank at the Naval Intelligence Office in Arlington VA just as we were entering the first Gulf War. I explained that the current soldiers would be less likely to follow orders and more likely to blame themselves for their individual actions than soldiers of previous wars. It’s exactly what has happened.

58 posted on 11/20/2012 9:26:28 AM PST by tired&retired
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To: yldstrk
...the horrors of war....

Which we are not allowed to win.

59 posted on 11/20/2012 9:28:17 AM PST by onedoug
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To: txnativegop

These social changes, cross dressers, homosexuals, promoting minorities is not a coincidence.
This is the lefts way of using PC to change the military and now we get some joining , not because of love of country but because of freebies.
Hell how many have you met or seen and thought they;re military?

Why some keep talking about combat is beyond me, many who kill themselves have not even been in combat.

World war two etc had problems but today we have mamby pamby land, where many sons are raised with band aids for their little boo boos.

I went to the marine recruiter over the summer because my oldest wants marine recon or navy seal.
What a joke that was.
This marine thought he was rambo, kept talking about himself and how he guarded the President for 4 years, no combat himself.
Told my son he doesn;t have to share showers or rooms with homosexuals or men who want to wear a dress after work.

Really, my son can just say no, yea right but then the recruiter told me how great it was to have women in the marines and how women can serve on the front lines.
When I questioned hi as to why women do a different test but want the same job he had no idea what to say.
I’ts all PC

The man was an idiot who BTW coudln;’t even iron his pants and l0ooked like crap.

Many on our side think all military members are good, I;ve served and they;re not.
There has and always been bullies, idiots, thieves, druggies, cheats and now rapist homosexuals.

Rapes rose massively to 19,000 in one year since turd pokers can serve.

The left have been destroying the military for years and it;s time for our side to wake up.

BTW, Many serve each other, when in combat the country was not first, it was my mate next to me.
My obligation was to him not country at that time.

When youget back you hear people saing thank you but they go off on their merry way leaving you with no job, no one who can talk to you, no one understanding , hell it;s not even the same sense of humor in civilian life, or wasn;t before PC came

60 posted on 11/20/2012 9:31:29 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: tired&retired

I haven’t heard much news from Afghanistan in the last few years. But I got hold of a series of books on the war written by James Christ. Great books about the men of the 10th Mountain Divisin and the Embedded trainers (mostly National Guard). Understrentght, outnumbered, constant sniper fire, ambushes, IEDs and attacks on their outposts. And to top it off they have the absolute worst ROEs imaginable. Also read the Dakota Myers story, a US Marine who was awarded the MOH, it will make you sick. Then maybe you can understand why these guys are fucked up when they come home. These guys were constantly on patrols and their commanders broke every lesson learned from the past wars. hell they had to, they were working out of small outpost scattered all over a large area in the most dangerous areas of Afghanistan.

I recommend these books,about 10 of them, to everyone who wants to know what your soldiers and marines are up against in this war. God bless, we don’t deserve them.

61 posted on 11/20/2012 9:32:08 AM PST by Americanexpat
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To: kristinn

This is what it means to live in a culture of death.

62 posted on 11/20/2012 9:35:27 AM PST by Romulus
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To: TurboZamboni

the neighbors kid joined and I asked him about it and he admitted it was easy, he wants his school loans paid off and how he gets many good deals.

He has no love for the country, none at all.

Now he got his girl pregnant, she had the baby and right away he banged out another, all the time crying he has no money.

Lok at those 4 marines out on the west coast some months ago.
They scammed the marines into getting married quarters,

Dont know why our side thinks every military member is a grade A patriotic person, they are not.

I know guys who left who are nothing but scam artists, one is a big drug dealer who plied his trade whilst serving

63 posted on 11/20/2012 9:36:34 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: yldstrk

“Once they have seen the horrors of war, maybe it is too much.”

Maybe you meant ...

Once they seen the horrors of the Commander in Chief and the evils of gay aggressive behavior going unchecked, it is too much. Not what most of them signed up for.

There is also the wave of spouses back home filing for divorce while they are overseas that doesn’t help.

64 posted on 11/20/2012 9:36:54 AM PST by George from New England (escaped CT in 2006, now living north of Tampa)
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To: CodeToad

I have kids, two of them are boys, one turned 15 last week.

I see the kids about him, who go to his school who are in the ROTC.

I see my yongest when playing soccer and the boys who play with him.

I swear we have raised boys for the most part of soft little mamby pamby band aid for the boo boo cry babies.

We make it easy for them to join and some of who I see serving on the base here stuns me.

How the hell does a 200 pound woman at 5 foot 5 get to join?

The left wanted cross dressers, homosexuals, tulip lickers in the military.
FOr some reason the left hates tough, physical men who can fight and actually like fighting.

Time our side raised our sons to be future men and understand the military is not what they think it is

65 posted on 11/20/2012 9:41:08 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: manc

Not to mention we’re increasingly getting gang-members in our military.

66 posted on 11/20/2012 9:41:21 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: MuttTheHoople

What an utterly ridiculous thing to say.

67 posted on 11/20/2012 9:41:40 AM PST by Last of the Mohicans
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To: manc
just make sure he doens;t get raped,

How do you propose that I, a mother in her late middle years, could make sure my son doesn't get raped?

My oldest wants marine recon or navy seal, and I;ve told him there is no way in hell he will join whilst these PC policies are in place and obama is President especially after Libya and how oabma dealt with that

After a young person is 18, a parent does not have much control over whether he or she enlists. I would have vastly preferred that my son go to college and enter the Corps as an officer--four years from now, when Obama will be out of office. I could not stop him from enlisting; he's 18 and legally a grown man.

But I'm very proud of him and can hardly wait to see him graduate!

68 posted on 11/20/2012 9:43:55 AM PST by ottbmare (The OTTB Mare)
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To: A_perfect_lady

yep we have gang members who join, there was a report about how hispanic gang members join to get training and then use that after their 4 year stint.

We want to get rid of reduce suicides then make it tougher for people to join, and then get those who shoudl be in will get in and stop the PC nonsense and social changes

69 posted on 11/20/2012 9:44:25 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: dfwgator

Yep, and generalizations—lots of generalizations. Shrinks and social workers like to lump the feeble minded in with those who’ve had inner ear injuries from percussions and/or field exhaustion (exhaustion that most civilians never know—hard labor with virtually no sleep for weeks).

[I was only National Guard, BTW, with no hardship tours. But I was combat (combat).]

70 posted on 11/20/2012 9:44:25 AM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: ottbmare

I will pray for your son and all those in our military. As a country we ask a great deal of them, we need to be there for them in any way we can.

71 posted on 11/20/2012 9:47:35 AM PST by Tammy8 (~Secure the border and deport all illegals- do it now! ~ Support our Troops!~)
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To: dfwgator

Oh...heh, heh. Want that “thousand yard stare?” Live outdoors for at least a week or about a month to be sure. Don’t go in any building, tent or vehicle at all during the whole time. Keep very busy for at least 20-23 hours a day. No TV, no radios, no Internet gadgets, no colorful clothing or colorful anything in sight—only “earth” colors allowed. Voila: bush fever, thousand yard stare.

72 posted on 11/20/2012 9:48:36 AM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: kristinn

If Bush were president this would be all over the news. 0bama is president, and the media hide it.

73 posted on 11/20/2012 9:49:19 AM PST by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible traitors. Complicit in the destruction of our country.)
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To: manc

“I know guys who left who are nothing but scam artists, one is a big drug dealer who plied his trade whilst serving”

I saw something happen several times in criminal courts about 10 years ago that would interest you. Offenders who had ‘violent records’ who were turned away by the military because of those records. Other offenders who were welcome because of their ‘technical skills and trainability’ - were in fact a group of embezzling employees in one case, fraud in another, and identity theft and falsification of public documents in a third. They were literally smirking as they were sworn in in a warm and fuzzy ceremony to show how rehabilitated they were.

The violent offenders would have made better soldiers after some attitude adjustments from the DI. Far better than the little frauds.

74 posted on 11/20/2012 9:49:42 AM PST by Psalm 144 (For Chicken Little the sky is always falling.)
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To: chrisser

I wonder if it could have anything to do with risking one’s life while thinking he was fighting for something, then coming home to a broken, divided America that has become a welfare state? Crappy economy, no job to come home to, people bickering about free stuff, the Constitution you thought you were defending in shreds. What WERE you fighting for that whole time?? Not to mention that this whole generation of millenials is kinda shaky to begin with.

75 posted on 11/20/2012 9:51:23 AM PST by Dr. Pritchett
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To: ottbmare

19,000 rapes last year on men, how many went unreported and men lived in shame from that rape?

You as a mother cannot do anything to stop him being raped and we know as my son woudl never say if they were.

This is obama’s military, cross dressing, homosexuals, mamby pamby guys joining, overweight women joining

all because of PC, they want minorities, homosexuals, hispanics which is good if they;re qualified, some whites and others are not and that is the problem today, they join up

I wish you all the best as a mother.

My oldest son just turned 15 and I;ve brought him up to be a good conservative but I will put my foot down if he wants to join whilst the military is like it is, and obama or the left is in charge
Just look at Libya and how that was dealt with.

This admin does not care one bit about your son or my sons life and they lie to the parents face with out a care

76 posted on 11/20/2012 9:51:47 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: MuttTheHoople

I honestly believe you’re right. People say it must be the horrors, but my guess is that today’s horrors of Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. were/are no more than WWI, WWII Korea, or even Viet Nam.

The difference is ROEs, hatred of our military by Democrats (well, they did this during VN, too), and a determined purpose to demoralize and debauch our military.

Frankly, if my son, or daughter, or grand children wanted to join our military, I’d advise them NO.

77 posted on 11/20/2012 9:56:24 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Psalm 144

In my unit, many of us were fighters, come from broken homes and we made the military our familiy.
We liked to fight,we liked to get stuck in , we enjoyed the good fight and when we were fighting the enemy we were fighting for each other.

Today we get people joining for the wrong reasons and we have PC destroying the military.

78 posted on 11/20/2012 9:59:46 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: manc

“Time our side raised our sons to be future men and understand the military is not what they think it is.”

Totally agree. There are still some aspects of the military that are tough men but they are surrounded by liberal PC BS that they cannot escape. In fact, those manly men are hated by the PC military and their demise is plotted every step of the way. Years ago when I served at least the manly men were respected if not at all understood. Today, every PC kid in the military is narcissistic enough to want to be respected like the manly men so they put down the doers and claim hero status for themselves. If they don’t get hero status they have these little meltdowns.

If I had two boys their age I would raise them to be men and to go on to aspects of their own interests and forget the military for now. I would teach them many skills of being men and hope they go on to continue their life as adults. There are simply too many liberal challenges to that now.

79 posted on 11/20/2012 10:00:44 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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Why not go back to the way our military is trained? Being separated from all normal life and trained to only depend on the guy next to them with a gun. When they get out of the military they don’t know how to relate or trust those that next to them that does not have a gun in their hand. It is not that those now around them don’t understand. It is that they will not believe they understand.

80 posted on 11/20/2012 10:00:56 AM PST by jimfr
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To: yldstrk

It is seeing the horrors of war and then coming home to a government that ties your hands. I would imagine that WWII vets who saw the horror of war, could at least take comfort in the fact that the good guys won, and it only took 5 years to win. These poor guys today, see the horror of war and they must ask themselves, “what was the point”. Now, there probably is a good point for their being in combat; some good has probably come from their sacrifice. Good luck finding someone who will actually report on that good.

81 posted on 11/20/2012 10:10:04 AM PST by Windy City Conservative
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To: Gaffer

My 90 year old dad was in Battle of the Bulge - he STILL has nightmares. He has had several panic attacks while hunting out in the woods when there is snow on the ground. He still won’t talk much about the war, but says that during The Bulge he didn’t have any idea where the enemy was, he couldn’t even trust men he didn’t know after seeing one of his buddies killed by an infiltrator in a U.S. uniform.

82 posted on 11/20/2012 10:12:54 AM PST by conservaterian (NOW can we have a conservative candidate?????)
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To: Windy City Conservative

I just separated from the Army and I spent 11 years on both active duty and reserve status. I’ve been deployed to Kosovo, Iraq, and Afghanistan. I think a problem stems from the long continuous deployments. Some soldiers like it, but a majority of the senior career soldiera despiae it as they have families and lives to attain to. Another large problem are the DoD contractors that make $200,000 a year doing jobs that soldiers used to fill or could fill. Intermingling civilians into the Army has caused a problem with moral that no one speaks of because of the high business costs that these large influential corporations have. My last tour was a mox of 5-6 civilians and 6 soldiers in my shop. When soldiers are disciplined and made to sjave and adher to basic rules they wonder why they are doing their job when they can get out and be a civilian and make loads of cash. The.other issue is that less than 1% of the population serves and when a service member returns home he cannot relate to the rest of society.

83 posted on 11/20/2012 10:20:06 AM PST by Equidistantmiddle
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To: libertarian27

The drugs, which are a Huge part of this equation, are garbage. Everyone in the industry knows it, and lies about it or issues a “No Comment”. 70% driving impaired
suicide, mania
John Breeding on youtube
Breeding Letter
Antidepressants do more harm than good
tardive dysphoria/chronic ssri use
rebound effect
check his blogroll
Brain Damage neuroleptics
Peter Breggin

Brain damage, dementia and persistent cognitive dysfunction associated with neuroleptics (1990)
“Brain damage, dementia and persistent cognitive dysfunction associated with neuroleptics: Evidence, Etiology, Implications.” Journal of Mind Behavior 11:425-464, 1990.

84 posted on 11/20/2012 10:20:49 AM PST by To-Whose-Benefit? (It is Error alone which needs the support of Government. The Truth can stand by itself.)
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To: rarestia

“... returned from Iraq in 2010 after 6 tours”

How did he accomplish that? Iraq tours were 14 - 16 months for Army, shorter for other services. He’d have to have done a string of lateral transfers or been on a rather unique assignment.

Do you know where in Iraq he served (base names)?

I blame General Order One for accumlating stress.

Work hard play hard was virtually non-existant in Iraq. It was just work hard 7 days a week, isolation, repetitive duties and frequent stressful situations (attacks and travel).

85 posted on 11/20/2012 10:36:49 AM PST by Justa
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To: Windy City Conservative

Let me apologize in advanced for my grammar, I’m typing this from my cell phone.

86 posted on 11/20/2012 10:38:38 AM PST by Equidistantmiddle
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To: chrisser
I’d sure be curious to hear from veteran FReepers about what might be causing these tragedies and what might be done to prevent them.

The reports are on the money. I'm surprised it took this long for the MSM to pick up this story.

The USAF shut down in January because the suicide rate had exceeded the entire previous year.

A lot of the suicides are troops who were never deployed. The usual cases heard about is wife cheats/hubby kills himself. These are some examples. NCO in Korea got local GF pregnant, did not want to face wife back home so he hung himself. NCO in Korea did not want to leave local GF so took bath with iron or radio. NCO caught stealing, facing 20+ years in Leavenworth ate a bullet.

There is also a spike in DOD civilian suicides. Most DOD civilians volunteer to go into the sandbox so I don't think deploying is the issue.

87 posted on 11/20/2012 10:41:29 AM PST by USAF80
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To: Justa

He was a Marine and deployed shortly after he graduated from Officer Training in 2002. He was only stateside once in those 8 years.

He was a SSgt, as I recall.

The only places I know he was for certain was Fallujah during the big battles there, and he spent the rest of his time there in Baghdad and on the border with Syria.

He didn’t talk much about specifics, but I could ask his brother for more information if it’s something you need to know.

88 posted on 11/20/2012 10:45:44 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

U got that right!

89 posted on 11/20/2012 10:47:20 AM PST by rusureitflies? (A person becomes a lost fool when they reject the Holy Spirit.)
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To: Equidistantmiddle

The reason you have contractors is because the active force was gutted under Gramm-Rudman. The Army used to be over 1 million men and the AF was up to 850,000. Now both are a shell and have to do the same mission.

Entire bases are being run by civvies.

90 posted on 11/20/2012 10:56:57 AM PST by USAF80
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To: kristinn

A reporter in 1941 wondered aloud if American men were strong enough to bridge the comforts of civilian life to the rigors of war. It’s still a good question.

91 posted on 11/20/2012 11:04:42 AM PST by Spok
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To: kristinn
And, while only 1 percent of Americans have served in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, veterans of these conflicts represent 20 percent of all suicides in the United States, the VA reported.

Not sure where the VA got those numbers. There are more than 38,000 suicides in the US each year. If US service members commit suicide at a rate of 1 per day (from the article) that represents about 1% of the suicides per year not 20%.

The rate of suicide for Americans aged 15-54 is about 15/100,000. The rate of suicides for service members is 13/100,000. Each one of these deaths is a tragedy but it would be hard to say that suicides among service members is "out of control" when they are at a rate lower than that of the general population.

92 posted on 11/20/2012 11:27:43 AM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: kristinn; SkyDancer; chrisser; rarestia; Joe 6-pack; manc; muawiyah

An experiential chasm now separates veterans from the general citizenry. During the Second World War, 11 out of every 100 served, making unavoidable continuous associations with veterans and their families. Currently only 1 in 200 serve their country, and only 7 out of every 1,000 have deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan.

Our civilians pursue mundane, quiet lives among unfathomable luxuries compared to other countries. Too often they regard with indifference, and/or bewilderment, and/or loathing those choosing honor, duty, and sacrifice with the attendant consequences. If loathing seems excessive consider Homeland Security withdrew its profile of domestic terrorists, because veterans were stereotyped as potential Timothy McVeighs.

Next consider the perplexity of PTSD. People too often perceive as disorders the adaptive skills veterans learn through training and experience to overcome the extremes of combat and non-combat situations. For example, high situational awareness finding clues signaling threats can be labeled “hypervigilance”. Detailed mission rehearsal enhanced by instantaneous recall of violent encounters becomes “flashbacks” at home.

You cannot restart the human being like a computer, so the transition can take years. The many skills that were imperative to military success must be dialed back at home.

However, at home veterans do not encounter the all encompassing love and understanding their grandparents’ generation found, when most had experienced the war in one way or another.

We should first view the warrior as dealing with PTS. First reserve the “D” for the mental disorder of civilians who can’t or won’t interact positively with veterans.

I invite people contact Dr. Charles W. Hoge at , or read his book titled Once a Warrior – Always a Warrior: Navigating the Transition from Combat to Home. Another source would be his article in Disabled American Veteran titled “The Paradox of PTSD” at

93 posted on 11/20/2012 12:18:07 PM PST by Retain Mike
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To: tired&retired; cindy-true-supporter; EDINVA; ExTexasRedhead
It is not the horrors of war. When Obama took office, the suicide rate in the military was half of the general population of the same age group in general society. It now exceeds the general population.

With the rules of engagement changing under Obama and the frustration of not being able to protect themselves or the men under them that they are responsible for, they are feeling hopeless. I hear their stories.

I’ve talked to quite a few soldiers who tell me of their men being court martialed for returning fire when shot at by snipers. Of inept commanders pulling the perimeter guards and allowing truck bombs to enter their field bases. I hear the horror stories. Of being put in tents to sleep within range of insurgent fire, who open fire on them at night and then drop their guns. The soldiers are told they cannot shoot back unless the insurgent has a gun in hand and firing.

I hate to say it, but these men are turning their anger and frustration inward rather than at the administration that is creating this mess. It is only a matter of time until this explodes in a different direction. These men are angry!

The reason that Gen Ham was replaced was because he did not hold back on rescuing fellow soldiers in peril. It’s time the military realizes who their real enemy is!

I agree with your assessment. Bears repeating.

94 posted on 11/20/2012 12:21:05 PM PST by Albion Wilde ("Not only no, but HELL NO we will NOT moderate our stance."-- Jim Robinson)
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To: rarestia

My uncle served in the Marines for WW II...doing island to island combat. He had various points where he had malaria, dysentery, and a couple of minor wounds. For them, it was were stuck in the Marines until you wrapped up the war, and then you could come home....end of the story. No second deployment. No third deployment. No fourth deployment.

I think sixty percent of this entire issue is the continued deployment right back into the zone. You continued to get dose after dose. The Army and Marines never had a real grasp about the mental side to their guys.

In my uncle’s case....he came back and was a alcoholic the rest of his life. He wrapped up the bachelor’s degree...complements of the GI Bill, and became a teacher. Eventually, he became a school principal. He did well for his entire life...the only one in the family to finish up college for that generation. But he was an absolute hard drinker for fifty years of his life after returning. He never talked over the war years.

A quarter of the teachers that I had in high school....were WW II vets. They never discussed their war years in public.

I will add this...a great deal of our mentality today in the military is about building friendships. Probably more so than the WW II years. So I think it bothers us to a significant degree when we have close friends killed in the line of fire...over and over.

95 posted on 11/20/2012 12:25:30 PM PST by pepsionice
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To: kristinn
This is a problem. A real problem. And from what I witness, it is because of two reasons.

Numer One: No one has their back. Thanks to this WH's and DOD's ridiculous ROEs, their neglect of their military and their obvious disdain and repulsion towards the very men and women they ask so very much from, these people have no one on their side. Even as they continue to give and fight and sacrifice, their benefits are getting stripped away as those who contribute nothing to society are rewarded and seemingly coveted. The media trashes them, their fellow soldiers et. all betray them, their leaders abandon them.

Number Two: Thanks to our nanny state and the whiny crybaby society we now live in, they have sissified our military. I mean no disrespect to our fighting forces, but due to the desperate need for all things to be PC, our drill instructors and those in training positions are no longer allowed to toughen these kids up. You cannot train people to kill and try to teach them to be PC at the same time. You cannot treat them like porcelain figurines and expect to turn out warriors. It isn't rational. It isn't possible. And these horrifying statistics are a direct result of these ridiculous attempts.

96 posted on 11/20/2012 12:32:53 PM PST by USMCWife6869
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To: SkyDancer; MuttTheHoople; xzins
The problem with finding data for previous wars is that many coroners entered the cause of death as natural causes or misadventure so that the family could collect insurance or simply so that the veteran would not have “suicide” on the death certificate.

The problem is that the military is trying to treat symptoms and not the problem. Which is poor leadership. Commanders should be held accountable for the numbers of suicides from their combat commands.

Guerra's (sp?) “On Combat” and “On Killing” offer “a way” to reduce combat suicides. But the lawyers would freak out if we tried it.

97 posted on 11/20/2012 12:37:45 PM PST by fireforeffect (A kind word and a 2x4, gets you more than just a kind word.)
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To: MestaMachine
They DRUG them with cocktails with only G-d knows what in them.


98 posted on 11/20/2012 12:37:53 PM PST by Forgotten Amendments (I remember when a President having an "enemies list" was a scandal. Now, they have a kill list.)
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To: tired&retired
I hate to say it, but these men are turning their anger and frustration inward rather than at the administration that is creating this mess. It is only a matter of time until this explodes in a different direction. These men are angry!

It would not surprise me that there is talk and chatter among the good generals and so on that are left on the current state of affairs of our country, hint-hint.
99 posted on 11/20/2012 12:43:21 PM PST by Nowhere Man (I miss you Whitey! (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012). Take care, pretty girl!)
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To: Retain Mike

Great points all, Mike. My uncle Tom suffers from PTSD, and he’s convinced it’s due to the treatment he received when he returned home from the war. My other two uncles were stationed at Pearl Harbor for the rest of their service and considered that paradise. My uncle Tom was greeted by protestors in San Diego and was spit on and even turned away for service at a bar when he showed up in his uniform fresh off the boat. He says the constant feeling of rejection coupled with the will to continue to fight even though his conscience says “It’s over, just let it go,” is the reason for his regular night terrors and need to drown himself in gin.

100 posted on 11/20/2012 12:44:06 PM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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