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SOME DEMS: DRIVE OVER 'FISCAL CLIFF,' THEN BARGAIN
The Big Story ^ | 11/21/2012 | CHARLES BABINGTON and ANDREW TAYLOR

Posted on 11/21/2012 7:42:42 AM PST by SeekAndFind

WASHINGTON (AP) — Some Democrats are pushing an unorthodox idea for coping with the "fiscal cliff": Let the government go over, temporarily at least, to give their party more bargaining leverage for changes later on.

The idea has plenty of skeptics, and the White House regards it frostily. But it illustrates the wide range of early negotiating positions being staked out by Republicans and Democrats as lawmakers gathered Tuesday for their first postelection talks on how to avoid the looming package of steep tax hikes and program cuts.

Just as brazen, in the eyes of many Democrats, is the GOP leaders' continued insistence on protecting tax cuts for the rich. President Barack Obama just won re-election, campaigning on a vow to end those breaks.

Democrats and Republicans appear heading toward another round of brinkmanship that will test who blinks first on questions of major importance. It's a dance that has infuriated many Americans, shaken financial markets and drawn ridicule from foreign commentators.

In late 2010, after big GOP midterm election wins, Obama backed off his pledge to raise taxes on the rich. In the summer of 2011, House Republicans pushed Congress within a hair of refusing to raise the debt ceiling, leading to the first-ever downgrade of the government's credit rating. And last December, it was the Republicans' turn to blink, yielding to Obama's demand to extend a payroll tax break.

The "fiscal cliff" deadline comes in seven weeks. One provision: Unless Congress acts, all Bush-era tax cuts would expire, raising 2013 tax bills for most Americans. Obama wants to end those tax cuts only for households making more than $250,000 a year. Republicans insist on no tax rate increases anywhere.

(Excerpt) Read more at bigstory.ap.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: democrats; fiscalcliff

1 posted on 11/21/2012 7:42:52 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

THE DEMS ARE MAKING THIS GAMBLE:

If the “fiscal cliff” takes effect, congressional Republicans would feel pressure to give ground in several areas to achieve their top goal: restoring tax cuts for as many people as possible. That’s why Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., and other Democrats have said their party’s leaders should seriously consider letting the Jan. 1 deadline pass and then negotiate with Republicans under sharply different circumstances. Some or most of any new agreements could be made retroactive to Jan. 1, they say.

If Republicans refuse to let tax cuts expire for the wealthy, Murray told ABC’s “This Week,” ‘’we will reach a point at the end of this year where all the tax cuts expire and we’ll start over next year. And whatever we do will be a tax cut for whatever package we put together. That may be the way to get past this.”

Murray’s allies say voters would blame Republicans for refusing to yield, especially on tax rates, given that Obama won re-election. A recent Pew Research poll supports that view. More than half of the respondents said they would chiefly blame congressional Republicans if there’s no compromise on the fiscal cliff; 29 percent would blame Obama.


2 posted on 11/21/2012 7:43:31 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Look, Republicans are going to get blamed no matter what. You can bank on the fact that the corrupt MSM will see to that!

Give the Democrats everything they want and let the place burn to the ground.


3 posted on 11/21/2012 7:46:16 AM PST by Obadiah (It pays to be a Democrat.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Let it happen. Get back to me with an example of when anything has been blamed on the Dems or Obama.


4 posted on 11/21/2012 7:46:23 AM PST by freedomlover
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To: Obadiah

This Christmas our three kids will be getting less. They will blame this on me and my wife.

Thank goodness they can’t outvote us on the matter and put it all on a credit card.

Yet.


5 posted on 11/21/2012 7:48:24 AM PST by freedomlover
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To: SeekAndFind

It would be pretty bad optics for the Rats to not have a deal done by Inauguration Day. While they are out partying at formal balls i’ll be pinching pennies so I can pay my higher taxes and someone else’s Obamare subsidy.


6 posted on 11/21/2012 7:51:33 AM PST by ironman
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t know what the bastard dems are going to do. I know that they don’t give a damn about people who bust their humps to work to pay their taxes that they take and give to lazy slobs who reward them by voting democrat.


7 posted on 11/21/2012 7:54:24 AM PST by I want the USA back
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To: freedomlover
Good morning.

Let it happen. Get back to me with an example of when anything has been blamed on the Dems or Obama.

Exactly.

5.56mm

8 posted on 11/21/2012 7:55:01 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: SeekAndFind
The problem with this "strategy" for the Communists in power is that the Debt Ceiling expires (again) very soon after the Fiscal Cliff and Sequestration.

While hard core leftist will celebrate the fact that the Dept of Defense absorbs half of the Sequestration cuts (even though it is only 16% of the budget), the other 50% of cuts will affect their precious domestic programs immediately. When the Debt Ceiling expires in February, or early March at the latest, the Communists are back to square one.

Then - here we go again. What to fund? Interest on the debt HAS to be paid, or the whole Ponzi scheme collapses even faster. Then comes the 3rd rail of this country: Social Security checks. Obama will threaten the SS recipients of not getting paid (as he did before....same play book). Then what to fund? Gottsta funds da Food Stamp. Moochelle and her mama will hound bath house Barry relentlessly about that one. What next?

Burn it all down isn't a strategy. It is Communists licking their chops at Defense cuts. But once that happens, the economy loses about 1.5 million jobs almost immediately. The Communists don't understand that recovery becomes much harder at this point.

9 posted on 11/21/2012 7:56:49 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: ironman

It would be pretty bad optics for the Rats to not have a deal done by Inauguration Day.


The dims are assuming the GOP will cave by then. I think the dim plan is to let them expire. Then the kenyan will ride in on his camel and browbeat us. Boehner will promptly surrender to the “Obama Tax Cut” plan whatever that is.

Then the dims will rub it in our faces with a big time par-tay inauguration.

That is the Age of Obama in a nutshell. Oh joy.


10 posted on 11/21/2012 7:58:25 AM PST by lodi90
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To: SeekAndFind

not only want to go over the financial cliff, i want to put a brick on the accelerator of the bus and go over full speed..

the ones that voted for fubo overwhelmingly, lower income workers, single women and minorities, will see their tax rates double and even triple, while a whole host that did not pay taxes before will now be on the hook for taxes...

be careful what you ask for, you might just get it..

let them eat cake


11 posted on 11/21/2012 8:04:50 AM PST by joe fonebone (The clueless... they walk among us, and they vote...)
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To: SeekAndFind

Dems: Hey, let’s play political football, so even more of the “little guys” we pretend to care about can lose their jobs!


12 posted on 11/21/2012 8:09:16 AM PST by Qbert ("The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry" - William F. Buckley, Jr.)
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To: freedomlover

Go for that dive over the fiscal cliff. The Republicans are going to be blamed by the media either way.

There is a law on the books right now, passed by the House and Senate and signed by the President, that states that sequestration and the rate reversion go into effect in January.

Of course, we are crashing into the the highly fictional “debt limit” as well, so there are all sorts of complications piling up, but this has been many years coming. Coulda, shoulda, woulda just won’t cut it any more.

Perfect opportunity for several of the states to secede from the now badly damaged United States, and maybe create the “American Dream” again, minus all the baggage.


13 posted on 11/21/2012 8:13:58 AM PST by alloysteel (Bronco Bama - the cowboy who whooped up and widened the stampede.)
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To: SeekAndFind

And let all the uneployment extensions also expire. And Chuck Schumer’s worried about the Dairy Compact expiration ($5 milk, bad. $5 gas, good). Let it all expire. No more tax cuts, no more unemployment extensions, no more 10% tax rate, no more additional chid credit, etc.


14 posted on 11/21/2012 8:19:59 AM PST by cotton1706
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To: SeekAndFind
From Obama’s presser.

Obama:

I don’t want to find ourselves in a position six months from now or a year from now where, lo and behold, the only way to close the deficit is to sock it to middle-class families or to burden families that have disabled kids or, you know, have a parent in a nursing home, or suddenly we’ve got to cut more out of our basic research budget that is the key to growing the economy in the long term.

No matter what “compromise” is made- Obama will come back in 6 months and sock it to the middle class. And yes, Republicans will be blamed.

15 posted on 11/21/2012 8:20:59 AM PST by TornadoAlley3 (Obama is everything Oklahoma is not.)
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To: freedomlover
Let it happen. Get back to me with an example of when anything has been blamed on the Dems or Obama.

We should join hands with Patty Murray and jump. Pubbies will get blamed no matter what so we might as well get something out of it. This Lucy and the football business has to stop. Break the cycle. Elections have consequenses. They want to negotiate later? How does mid November 2014 sound?

16 posted on 11/21/2012 8:25:27 AM PST by Poison Pill (Take your silver lining and SHOVE IT!)
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To: SkyPilot

Why a U.S. Default Will be a Good Thing
http://moneymorning.com/2011/08/11/why-us-default-will-be-a-good-thing/

The reason why default is never mentioned as a possibility by the Socialist media, is because default will destroy U.S. gubmint credit, making it impossible for gubmint to borrow. It might force balanced budgets for a generation?

Socialists prefer inflation, which is disguised taxation, or even austerity. But a Keynesian’s worst nightmare is a government unable to borrow money.


17 posted on 11/21/2012 8:27:18 AM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: SeekAndFind

The Republicans should have started already running TV ads showing Obama and the Democraps saying “Bush tax cuts for the rich...”, then say, “However, they lied to you. YOUR taxes are going up by ... I guess Obama and the Democrats think YOU are rich.”


18 posted on 11/21/2012 8:30:37 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Graham should ask to go with Patty Murray to announce that the Republicans are for raising taxes on the rich. And then, he can talk about how the government will now start taking more money from Buffet and Gates and Barbara Streisand and Michael Jordan, etc....


19 posted on 11/21/2012 8:46:27 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: SeekAndFind

Drive over the fiscal cliff then overthrow the socialist government! The Constitution has been used as toilet paper anyway.

Too bad we don’t have a Francisco Franco instead of a medal-laden Betrayus.


20 posted on 11/21/2012 8:56:59 AM PST by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I say let the tax cuts expire, implement sequestration, and start putting the feds on the chopping block. The military is going to feel the pain, but so are all of the entitlement programs. If obama and the dems decide they want to work out selective tax cuts later, tell them tough shit, they should have dealt with it when they had the chance, and when the dems try to hang this around the republicans, tell them they got what they wanted, and now they own it all. At this point, the house and the republicans have nothing to lose, either way they’ll be damned in the court of public opinion.

But, I don’t see the above scenario happening due to the republicans reliably folding like a cheap suit at the first sign of real pressure.


21 posted on 11/21/2012 9:11:33 AM PST by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it.)
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To: SeekAndFind

WASHINGTON (AP) — Some Democrats are pushing an unorthodox idea for coping with the “fiscal cliff”: Let the government go over, temporarily at least, to give their party more bargaining leverage for changes later on.

If you are honest with yourself and the American citizens you have no bargaining leverage. Nor do the Republicans. America is BROKE.
You are not talking about reducing our debt. Simply reducing how much more in debt we go this year. Do you really think there is any difference if we go 1.1 Trillion dollars in debt or 1.0 Trillion dollars in debt.


22 posted on 11/21/2012 9:15:52 AM PST by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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