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‘IRON DOME’ OVERWHELMED
Aviationintel ^

Posted on 11/21/2012 7:50:10 AM PST by chessplayer

Israel’s highly controversial and very expensive ‘Iron Dome’ rocket defense system is being tested by extremist militant groups to its very limits. At $65,000 per round to hard kill a $500 rocket, its one expensive piece of mind that Israel has a lot riding on. It would seem that the strategic goal is to make rocket launches a worthless and unacceptable risk with no reward to the terrorists that launch these terror weapons, as opposed to an affordable defense system intended for continuous and prolonged use.

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Heard on Fox a couple days ago that Iron Dome was beginning to show cracks. Palestinians would saturate an Iron Dome site with rockets and just overwhelm it. Just too much incoming stuff for it to cope with.
1 posted on 11/21/2012 7:50:15 AM PST by chessplayer
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To: chessplayer

Hmmmm....

What would one pay to stop the bullet coming at their head?


2 posted on 11/21/2012 7:52:22 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: chessplayer

And people wonder why Israel has been jumping on these rocketeers with hell fire.

It has to be forced to stop, pronto, tout suite.


3 posted on 11/21/2012 7:55:07 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: chessplayer

Keep in mind that it’s a two-way street and that Israel is learning tons of stuff by using this system in combat.

From what I can tell, the system has done very well. As to the cost - even 1000 missiles is $60,000,000...not a huge amount of money, even for Israel. And the rockets that threaten their big cities cost a lot more than $500...and have to be smuggled into position.


4 posted on 11/21/2012 7:58:32 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: chessplayer

This is known as Competitive Strategies. 9/11 is the prime example. It’s also how USA won the Cold War against USSR. Great book called “The Cola Wars” is a good example in Private Enterprise.


5 posted on 11/21/2012 7:59:24 AM PST by Portcall24
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To: HiTech RedNeck

they need to attack the supply line more, such as the vessels bring them to to the Red Sea ports. those won’t be $500/missiles if they have to be airfrieghted.


6 posted on 11/21/2012 8:00:22 AM PST by RitchieAprile (the obsteperous gentleman..)
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To: chessplayer
I heard that strategy also and have been wondering how many of the defense missiles the Israelis have left.
7 posted on 11/21/2012 8:02:24 AM PST by McGruff (No New RINOs!)
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To: chessplayer
What goes up must come down. Hopefully the shrapnel created from the explosion of rockets in air comes down over the Pali launch site rather than over friendly territory.
8 posted on 11/21/2012 8:04:34 AM PST by shove_it ( No representation without taxation.)
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To: mylife

>> What would one pay to stop the bullet coming at their head?

A lot, of course.

However, suppose it were cheaper to eliminate the threat BEFORE it reached the point of putting a gun to your head? Wouldn’t that be the wiser choice?

http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/analysis/the-morally-reprehensible-iron-dome-hamass-best-friend/2012/11/19/


9 posted on 11/21/2012 8:04:46 AM PST by Nervous Tick ("You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.")
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To: chessplayer

I’m not sure why the Israeli’s didn’t employ radar directed AAA as an initial line of defense against these rockets?


10 posted on 11/21/2012 8:06:58 AM PST by fso301
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To: chessplayer

Iron Dome is to Israel what our EPA’s regulations are to our economy.


11 posted on 11/21/2012 8:07:36 AM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: chessplayer
Now the Israelis have demonstrated an effective, but not perfect BMD system they get slammed for this?

The system will evolve from what is learned. Remember this is a second generation, equivalent to biplanes on the evolutionary scale of BMD systems.

In the 1980's the "experts" mocked Reagan for even proposing a missile defense system. The world is full of things the experts said could never be done. More have died listening to the experts than defying them.

12 posted on 11/21/2012 8:08:11 AM PST by pfflier
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To: Portcall24

how the USA won the cold war? Horse manure. You have a Marxist in the White House today. Sure America fought against communism and at the end of the day they voted one into the White House!

Try
http://vimeo.com/52009124

Worst part? He is a muslo marxist.

The USA won NOTHING and is now on the road packing for ruin, at warp speed due to stupid voters AND FRAUD!.


13 posted on 11/21/2012 8:09:49 AM PST by himno hero (hadnuff)
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To: chessplayer

in order to detect and stop these rockets they must have an amazing radar

why not have drones flying overhead 24/7 and blow the crap out of any rocket lanch site within seconds


14 posted on 11/21/2012 8:12:10 AM PST by Mr. K (some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help...)
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To: chessplayer
At $65,000 per round to hard kill a $500 rocket, its one expensive piece of mind that Israel has a lot riding on.

Keep in mind that at least 95% of terrorist rockets will hit vacant land if Iron Dome does nothing, and those are ignored by the system. Essentially, the $65k missile stops the equivalent of 20 rockets, or $10k, from doing any damage. When you factor in the differential value placed on life between Israel, where life is cherished, and the terrorists, for whom death is celebrated, and Iron Dome sounds much better. Israel cannot afford to exclusively defend, but it is very nice that they can dramatically cut the price paid by civilians. As for offense, I'm thrilled to see naval gunfire support being used. That has a much lower cost than Iron Dome, and it delivers ordnance on target efficiently.

15 posted on 11/21/2012 8:12:10 AM PST by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: chessplayer

>>$65,000 per round to hard kill a $500 rocket<<

Should read...$65,000 per round to hard save Israeli lives!


16 posted on 11/21/2012 8:12:45 AM PST by servantboy777
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To: RitchieAprile

Israel is not composed of dummies, and I imagine that will follow, inasmuch as Israel can manage to trace those supply lines.

If the Lord tarries, I’m thinking there could well be a time when such an Israel-hating nut is the president that we will look back fondly to the time when “even Barack Obama said that Israel had the right to defend itself.”


17 posted on 11/21/2012 8:15:11 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: chessplayer

I wonder what happened to the laser system they supposedly tested successfully a few years ago.


18 posted on 11/21/2012 8:15:30 AM PST by wideminded
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To: RitchieAprile

No, Israel needs to buy a couple of old B-52s from the U.S. and introduce the Gaza strip animals to the lost art of carpet bombing.

The Gaza Strip needs to be turned into the Vacant Strip.

Innocent civilian casualties? Plenty. Who cares? Wars are won or lost by the complete destruction of the enemy and its will to continue. Period.

The last time that strategy was actually used in warfare it worked. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan haven’t been too much of a threat to their neighbors since 1945.

The whole idea of rationed and proportionate responses to attack is insane. Only when Israel finally opens up with a devestating and wholly disproportionate response — obliterating the enemy and its desire to ever enter into conflict again — will Israel be at peace and be secure.


19 posted on 11/21/2012 8:15:53 AM PST by FerociousRabbit
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To: himno hero

The US won the cold war. Then it surrendered.


20 posted on 11/21/2012 8:16:41 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: chessplayer

I think its a pretty darn cool system. Of course its not enough, Israel needs to bomb the launch sites.

Best defense is a good offense.


21 posted on 11/21/2012 8:17:34 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: chessplayer

I would think that the solution would be straightforward - establish a 500-meter kill-zone from the fence outward. Announce it and enforce it. Every time a rocket comes in extend the kill-zone another 500-meters. Eventually you will have compliance (one way or another).


22 posted on 11/21/2012 8:17:40 AM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: wideminded

It’s probably not ready for prime time, though I could see them testing it amongst the Dome system to see if it would effect a shootdown before a Dome missile gets it.


23 posted on 11/21/2012 8:17:55 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: chessplayer

seems to me if they are able to overwhelm one system. Park another one next to it.

Not a cheap fix, but it should up their odds.


24 posted on 11/21/2012 8:18:05 AM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: BobL
Yep. If you can shoot down a little ol’ rocket, then you can shoot down a big ol’ missile.

This is tech. well worth deploying just for the experience & knowledge gained.

25 posted on 11/21/2012 8:18:29 AM PST by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: FerociousRabbit

Araby (and other Islamic outposts/inposts) are so large that only divine intervention would stop a concerted pan-Islamic hot assault to demolish it. Israel is understandably nervous at the idea of pressing the conflict that wide.


26 posted on 11/21/2012 8:20:36 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: cableguymn

If the two systems can avoid fratricide....


27 posted on 11/21/2012 8:21:26 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: chessplayer
... one expensive piece of mind

Umm.. That's peace of mind, oh great and wise author.

28 posted on 11/21/2012 8:21:47 AM PST by TChris ("Hello", the politician lied.)
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To: pfflier

What you said.


29 posted on 11/21/2012 8:26:02 AM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: driftdiver

They do bomb the launch sites. The IDF releases videos of (some of) these strikes.


30 posted on 11/21/2012 8:27:14 AM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: FerociousRabbit
The whole idea of rationed and proportionate responses to attack is insane. Only when Israel finally opens up with a devestating and wholly disproportionate response — obliterating the enemy and its desire to ever enter into conflict again — will Israel be at peace and be secure.

I agree, but even that doesn't go far enough. "Palistinians" are puppets of other nations who fund and support them. Israel needs to add that any nation who supplies or funds these terrorists is also fair game for a strong response.

Bomb the capital and the homes of leaders of supporting nations too. Quit screwing around and make the price very high for unprovoked attacks on Israel.

31 posted on 11/21/2012 8:27:25 AM PST by TChris ("Hello", the politician lied.)
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To: chessplayer

So how long will Israel keep holding back from just eliminating the problem once and for all, like any other nation would (have done long ago)? It is your responsibility to your citizens.

Keep restraining yourself protecting against more casualties in the enemy camp and you will only be rewarded with more bombs and missiles hurled at your own communities.

Get it? They’re trying to kill you, act accordingly...


32 posted on 11/21/2012 8:33:06 AM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: chessplayer

One interesting thing is Iron Dome’s computers look at the trajectory of the rocket against a detailed map. If it’s headed for a sparsely populated area it doesn’t waste a missle on shooting it down.


33 posted on 11/21/2012 8:37:00 AM PST by Hugin ("Most times a man'll tell you his bad intentions, if you listen and let yourself hear."---Open Range)
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To: mylife

Hamas can get 130 rockets for the cost of one Iron Dome round. Israel isn’t rolling in money. How long before it breaks the budget? obama going to give them a blank check for defense?


34 posted on 11/21/2012 8:39:07 AM PST by chessplayer
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To: FerociousRabbit

Our message - and Israel’s - to the Mohammedan world should read thusly: “Threaten our civilization and yours is forfeit.”

This message should be followed by the only sort of demonstration the Islamic/Arabic world understands: the reduction of Damascus, Tehran, Riyadh and Mecca to faintly glowing glass. “Can you hear me now?”


35 posted on 11/21/2012 8:39:13 AM PST by Noumenon (As long as you have a rifle, you STILL have a vote.)
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To: chessplayer

Hamas is getting their ass kicked. They had no idea of the effectiveness of the dome when they ramped up the attacks. Their launch sites are being destroyed, leadership destroyed, storage bunkers destroyed, they are back to throwing stones in the streets, accusing each other of being spy’s and dragging dead bodies thru the streets. The Jew’s have all but run out of targets to hit from the air.

WELL DONE


36 posted on 11/21/2012 8:40:19 AM PST by reefdiver
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To: mylife

Israel need to just hit them with One big bomb and eleminate them once and for all.


37 posted on 11/21/2012 8:41:51 AM PST by ncfool (Obama's aMeriKa 2012 can we make it until 2016?)
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To: Noumenon

“Threaten our civilization and yours is forfeit.”

Now THAT is the proper response!


38 posted on 11/21/2012 8:43:22 AM PST by FerociousRabbit
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To: chessplayer

It’s terrible that they’re getting attacked, but this is the kind of system testing that designers live for - this is how they find out about things they need to fix.


39 posted on 11/21/2012 8:43:31 AM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: chessplayer

Economy of scale. The price will come down as more rockets are fired.


40 posted on 11/21/2012 8:51:35 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: chessplayer

Nuke Gaza.


41 posted on 11/21/2012 8:52:07 AM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: reefdiver; chessplayer
They had no idea of the effectiveness of the dome when they ramped up the attacks.

Your assessment is supported here:

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20121120.aspx

42 posted on 11/21/2012 8:54:26 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Mr. K
in order to detect and stop these rockets they must have an amazing radar

Family plug: Some 30+ years ago my brother worked on development of the algorithms, based in part on Bayesian Decision Theory, used in the intercept phase of these and similar weapons systems. The work itself is still classified. Once I walked into his office unexpectedly and the desk drawers literally got thrown shut and automatically locked.

43 posted on 11/21/2012 8:55:57 AM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: steve86

Of course the “intercept phase” is the whole flight in this system.


44 posted on 11/21/2012 8:58:05 AM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

The falsestinians set their own price for life when they demanded ten thousand prisoners released from Israeli jails for the return of ONE Israeli soldier. They set the price and Israel should stand by it. Ten thousand falsestinian lives forfeit for one Israeli death.
See how they like those odds.


45 posted on 11/21/2012 8:59:37 AM PST by MestaMachine (It's the !!!!TREASON!!!!, stupid!)
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To: TChris
Quit screwing around and make the price very high for unprovoked attacks on Israel.

Sorry, there's no such thing as an unprovoked attack upon Israel. Israel's mere existence is all the provocation any Muslim needs.

46 posted on 11/21/2012 8:59:46 AM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: fso301
I’m not sure why the Israeli’s didn’t employ radar directed AAA as an initial line of defense against these rockets?

Because it would wake up sleeping children.

47 posted on 11/21/2012 9:00:41 AM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: All

Time to bring in laser point defense systems.


48 posted on 11/21/2012 9:04:48 AM PST by Kolath
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To: JimRed
Sorry, there's no such thing as an unprovoked attack upon Israel. Israel's mere existence is all the provocation any Muslim needs.

I, and I hope Israel, do not recognize jihadists word definitions. :)

I use the words as the rest of humanity generally understand them.

49 posted on 11/21/2012 9:05:42 AM PST by TChris ("Hello", the politician lied.)
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To: mylife
What would one pay to stop the bullet coming at their head?

Just enough to buy a rifle to kill the sniper who fired the first bullet would be the best answer. Israel should consider this rather than just stopping the incoming ordnance.

50 posted on 11/21/2012 9:06:55 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ('Need' now means wanting someone else's money. 'Greed' means wanting to keep your own...)
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