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10 people who led us to the ‘fiscal cliff’
Marketwatch ^ | Nov. 21, 2012, 12:55 p.m. EST | Rex Nutting

Posted on 11/21/2012 10:50:23 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach

Commentary: From Laffer to Obama, they fed our greed and guilt

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — With our political leaders locked in a fiscal struggle that threatens to throw the economy off a so-called cliff and into recession, you might be wondering how we got to this place.

Remember that this supposed fiscal cliff is the direct result of two contradictory impulses in American life: Greed and guilt. Greed for low taxes, a strong military, a strong safety net and lots of government spending for everyone. And guilt that we weren’t paying our way. Read “Stop calling it a ‘fiscal cliff’”

All of us (or almost all) had a role in this melodrama, either benefiting from the spending or from the lower tax rates. Despite our culpability, it took strong national leaders to foster the heady mix of greed and guilt that brought us to this spot.

Here are the 10 people most responsible for bringing us to the edge of the fiscal cliff:

(Excerpt) Read more at marketwatch.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: economy; fiscalcliff; laffercurve
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And Both parties involved,...last three presidents also.
1 posted on 11/21/2012 10:50:25 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Nachum; blam

Sometimes Nutting has more than “Nutting to say”...


2 posted on 11/21/2012 10:51:54 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ((The Global Warming Hoax was a Criminal Act....where is Al Gore?))
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

No offense to you, but who cares what Rex Nutting thinks, he claimed Bush was responsible for Obama’s stimulus.


3 posted on 11/21/2012 10:52:35 AM PST by Perdogg (Rep. Tom McClintock (R-CA4) for President 2016)
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To: All

Don’t know why Rubin was left off the list.


4 posted on 11/21/2012 10:53:29 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ((The Global Warming Hoax was a Criminal Act....where is Al Gore?))
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Arthur Laffer #1??? What a load of BS

Laffer is enemy #1 for leftists. His theories are antithetical to everything that central planners, Socialists and Keynesians believe. That’s why they will never miss a chance to criticize him.


5 posted on 11/21/2012 10:54:04 AM PST by PGR88
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

This author is a nutter.

He hates cutting taxes as much as a Leftist.


6 posted on 11/21/2012 10:59:23 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: PGR88

I saw Art Laffer listed and stopped reading further.


7 posted on 11/21/2012 11:00:55 AM PST by FerociousRabbit
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

BFL


8 posted on 11/21/2012 11:03:51 AM PST by blam
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Greed for low taxes

Nutter is a dumbass.

9 posted on 11/21/2012 11:04:15 AM PST by A message
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To: PGR88

Why a U.S. Default Will be a Good Thing  
http://moneymorning.com/2011/08/11/why-us-default-will-be-a-good-thing/   ;
 
Have you noticed that the media doesn’t even dare to utter the word default?

Or when the word is mentioned, it is preceded by the word “disastrous” or “cataclysmic.”

The reason why default is never mentioned as a possibility by the Socialist media, is because default will destroy U.S. gubmint  credit, making it impossible for gubmint  to borrow. Maybe it would force balanced budgets for a generation?

Socialists prefer inflation, which is disguised taxation, or even austerity. But a Keynesian’s worst nightmare is a government unable to borrow money.


10 posted on 11/21/2012 11:05:09 AM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Nutting is a nut case.

His understanding of economics (or at least the understanding he tries to express) is a barely-at-the-surface understanding and his political sense of economic issues has been delivered up to him by the media and populist ideas it creates.

WSJ should fire him. He represents a disservice to their reputation (even though it has been sliding down, and to the Left, ever since Murdoch bought it).


11 posted on 11/21/2012 11:05:56 AM PST by Wuli
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To: PGR88

The Laffer Curve is usually misunderstood. The professor is not responsible for this.

Conservatives and liberals both often seem to think the LC says that reductions in tax rates will always result in increases in revenues. This is inaccurate.

There is a peak in the curve where the maximum revenue is produced. It a system is to the right of that peak, increases in tax rates will cause a drop in total revenue.

But if one is to the left of the peak, increases in tax rates will cause an increase in total revenue.

Both liberals and conservatives, when discussing the LC, always seem to assume we are on the right side of the peak. But that doesn’t necessarily follow.

Before attempting to use (or discredit) the LC, one should demonstrate why we are presently left or right of the peak.


12 posted on 11/21/2012 11:11:12 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

He blames GWB the most, and says that the tax cut in 2001 didn’t work. He didn’t mention that the tax cut in 2003 DID work. He is a moron.


13 posted on 11/21/2012 11:12:36 AM PST by gman4bush
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Rex Nutting - apply-named king of the morons - he’s the jackwad Ann Coulter took to the woodshed for claiming W was responsible for Obama’s deficit record.

No surprise that most of the folks he includes in his list are conservative-leaning, including Art Laffer, Grover Norquist, and George Bush, among others. He does include Bubba and the Bamster, but is clearly less disturbed by them than he is by anybody on the right with even an ounce of sense.


14 posted on 11/21/2012 11:13:30 AM PST by Stosh
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To: TurboZamboni; All

Maybe default is called disastrous because it leads to Moody and others lowering our national credit rating. I am not exactly clear why this is bad, but I know when my personal credit rating falls I have a harder time affording higher house payments and buying a car, among other things.


15 posted on 11/21/2012 11:15:28 AM PST by gleeaikin
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To: FerociousRabbit; PGR88
Arthur Laffer #1??? What a load of BS

Laffer is enemy #1 for leftists. His theories are antithetical to everything that central planners, Socialists and Keynesians believe. That’s why they will never miss a chance to criticize him.

Needs REPEATING. This article is B FREEKIN S.

Lower taxes, get the mooches off the give away line and make everyone pay SOME tax, make them work except for the actual needy ones who cannot support themselves. We all know there are NOT millions of those needy peeps.

Lazy should not be disguised as needy. And no, it's not LUCK that made us rich it's disguised as old fashioned hard work. And YES, we DID build that. Do you slugs actually think the guy with a successful business, hauling in a decent large salary after 25 years started out taking that same salary? YOU try running a hot dog stand and THEN we'll talk.

16 posted on 11/21/2012 11:18:14 AM PST by WaterWeWaitinFor (This great nation has chosen socialism over freedom and our constitution. How sad.)
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To: Sherman Logan
Thank you for your correct statement. I've gotten in arguments with liberals who disagree with the Laffer Curve. I always explain it in simple terms. With a 0% tax rate, revenues are 0. With a 100% tax rate, who is going to bother working? Tax revenues will be 0 or close to it (assuming there are some people who may show up for work out of boredom). Somewhere in between there is a rate that maximizes revenue. Argue the shape of the curve or where we are on the curve but the Laffer Curve itself is indisputable.
17 posted on 11/21/2012 11:20:31 AM PST by Armando Guerra
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

“In every case over the last 60 years, major tax cuts have more than paid for themselves. In fact, every major tax cut since JFK has been followed by substantial increases in revenue, not to mention solid economic growth. Moreover, total federal revenue rose at a faster rate after each of those tax cuts than it did before them. Anyone can confirm these basic facts for themselves by checking federal budget data and economic indicators before and after major tax cuts (see, for example, Federal Budget Data,Data 360 Unemployment U.S.,and Total Economy Database). Let’s take a closer look at the results of the last four major tax cuts (and then for good measure we’ll examine the Mellon tax cuts of the 1920s).

Bush Tax Cuts: President George W. Bush’s 2003 tax cuts generated a massive increase in federal tax revenue and were followed by 52 consecutive months of economic growth. From 2004 to 2007, federal tax revenue increased by $780 billion, the largest four-year increase in American history. Total federal revenue from 2003 to 2007:

2003 — $1.78 trillion

2004 — $1.88 trillion

2005 — $2.15 trillion

2006 — $2.40 trillion

2007 — $2.56 trillion

Total federal revenue for 2008 dropped slightly, down to $2.52 trillion, because a recession started that year, but revenue was still substantially higher than it was in 2003 or 2004. During the same period, income tax revenue rose dramatically, going from $925 billion in 2003 to $1.53 trillion in 2007. As with other types of federal revenue, income tax revenue dropped slightly in 2008, down to $1.45 trillion, due to the fact that a recession began that year.”

http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/taxcutfacts.htm


18 posted on 11/21/2012 11:21:04 AM PST by cruise_missile
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To: gleeaikin

The Laffer curve has been proven, time and again to be spot on. Cutting taxes DOES bring in more revenue. Unfortunately, no matter how much money the Government takes from us, the always spend more than take.


19 posted on 11/21/2012 11:21:31 AM PST by cumbo78
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

He forgot Dodd and Frank. Sorry, but my bs meter went off the minute I saw that smug arrogant face.
The man is as clueless as Krugman.


20 posted on 11/21/2012 11:21:46 AM PST by Wiser now (Socialism does not eliminate poverty, it guarantees it.)
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To: FerociousRabbit

>> I saw Art Laffer listed and stopped reading further.

I saw that rather than a simple article, it’s yet another one of those “click through ten damn pages so we get more advertising $$$” and closed the page immediately.


21 posted on 11/21/2012 11:21:52 AM PST by Nervous Tick ("You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.")
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To: FerociousRabbit
Same here.

Anyone posting Laffer as #1 and Obama is just trying to appeal to populists across the board.

Plus this guy is jockeying for ad revenue by putting them on 10 different pages.

22 posted on 11/21/2012 11:24:50 AM PST by what's up
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

This is DRIVEL!


23 posted on 11/21/2012 11:26:06 AM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: TurboZamboni
The reason why default is never mentioned as a possibility by the Socialist media, is because default will destroy U.S. gubmint credit, making it impossible for gubmint to borrow. Maybe it would force balanced budgets for a generation?

Default would also kill Progressivism. All Progressive programs depend on a strong central/Federal gov't giving top-down mandates, AND using money to back it up. Imagine a Bankrupt Federal Gov't (I know, they have printing presses). How would the EPA, NPR, ACORN, SNAP, etc. etc.. survive?

They wouldn't!

24 posted on 11/21/2012 11:29:35 AM PST by PGR88
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
A website article that has one paragraph per page in order to maximize their ad revenue by having you "view" all of those ads on all of those pages coupled with Art Laffer as villian #1 and saying "There’s only one problem: Laffer’s ideas didn’t pan out in practice: Tax cuts don’t pay for themselves. Tax cuts are a major cause of our $16 trillion national debt."

What a joke. I didn't read past there.....

25 posted on 11/21/2012 11:35:50 AM PST by SW6906 (6 things you can't have too much of: sex, money, firewood, horsepower, guns and ammunition.)
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To: Armando Guerra

As you are no doubt aware, this is just a variant of the basic principle that when selling a product there is a price that maximizes net profit.

Lowering price will generally increase number of units sold, but will by definition reduce profit per unit. At some point, one begins losing money on each unit sold. No, at that point you cannot make it back in volume!

OTOH, raising the price always increases the profit per unit, but normally will decrease the number of units sold.

In a monopoly system, which of course taxation is, there is always a specific point where these two factor balance out and the greatest total profit (or tax revenue) is generated.

One can argue about where that point is, but I find it really difficult to imagine anyone could seriously contend the point doesn’t exist.


26 posted on 11/21/2012 11:48:53 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Anyone who thinks that the Congress is going to arrive at an agreement to avoid the fiscal cliff. Barring an EO from zero that circumvents the Congress (AGAIN!), they will not agree on the measures necessary to avoid the looming economic disaster in 2013.

If the Senate hasn’t produced a budget in 3 years, they aren’t going to be able to do this in 5 weeks . . . . . . . . unless Boehner cries and caves . . . . . . AGAIN!!

(Boehner is a primary reason that I no longer support the RNC. BUT - he’s only one of many!)


27 posted on 11/21/2012 11:49:22 AM PST by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for white collar criminals!!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
The author is nuts. Cause #1 for the fiscal cliff is the legally responsible party.

That would be Congress.

Starting with the loss of Congress in Bush's presidency until now Congress has spent like a payday soldier at Octoberfest.

It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.
It's the spending, stupid.

28 posted on 11/21/2012 11:51:44 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: everyone

Sure

29 posted on 11/21/2012 11:58:04 AM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: Wiser now

I agree with that Dodd and Frank should be at the top of the list. I also nominate Pelosi and Reid. They had a majority for four years and ran up the numbers with no hesitation.

For that matter, all democrat Senators and Congressmen as well as their voters share large blame in this. Where did we get the idea that the Federal Treasury was Santa Claus with an infinite bag of goodies. What percentage of recipients don’t need all of what they are taking and/or have lived irresponsibly causing their own downfall?

I had stopped reading any article with Nutting’s mugshot on it, but this article just looked too ridiculous to pass.


30 posted on 11/21/2012 12:03:04 PM PST by Sam Clements
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Greed for ... a strong military

Being in favor of a strong military is now considered "greedy"? How can anyone write that sentence and not realize that they are a complete idiot?
31 posted on 11/21/2012 12:31:38 PM PST by jjsheridan5
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To: US Navy Vet

The leftists love the list....


32 posted on 11/21/2012 12:34:31 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ((The Global Warming Hoax was a Criminal Act....where is Al Gore?))
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To: onyx

LOL!


33 posted on 11/21/2012 12:35:39 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ((The Global Warming Hoax was a Criminal Act....where is Al Gore?))
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To: cruise_missile

Great post.


34 posted on 11/21/2012 12:48:12 PM PST by lonestar67 (I remember when unemployment was 4.7 percent)
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To: FerociousRabbit
Me too! The left has never given credit to Reagan for the job his tax cuts did in getting us out of the nightmare economy that Carter's administration left. The sad thing is that the right has never properly articulated Laffer’s theories either! I also got tired of having to go click on another page just to see the name of the next person on the list.
35 posted on 11/21/2012 12:56:21 PM PST by srmorton (Deut. 30 19: "..I have set before you life and death,....therefore, choose life..")
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To: FerociousRabbit
Me too! The left has never given credit to Reagan for the job his tax cuts did in getting us out of the nightmare economy that Carter's administration left. The sad thing is that the right has never properly articulated Laffer’s theories either! I also got tired of having to go click on another page just to see the name of the next person on the list.
36 posted on 11/21/2012 12:56:21 PM PST by srmorton (Deut. 30 19: "..I have set before you life and death,....therefore, choose life..")
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To: FerociousRabbit
Me too! The left has never given credit to Reagan for the job his tax cuts did in getting us out of the nightmare economy that Carter's administration left. The sad thing is that the right has never properly articulated Laffer’s theories either! I also got tired of having to go click on another page just to see the name of the next person on the list.
37 posted on 11/21/2012 12:56:21 PM PST by srmorton (Deut. 30 19: "..I have set before you life and death,....therefore, choose life..")
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To: srmorton; Jim Robinson
JimRob, FR feature request:

It seems like it shouldn't be too terribly difficult to code something that checks each post against the poster's last one. If it's an exact match, then drop it.

Just sayin'

38 posted on 11/21/2012 1:04:22 PM PST by TChris ("Hello", the politician lied.)
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To: Wiser now

Lefty white guy wth a beard talking about the economy. It is Krugman without the smugness.

After Bill Clinton, I thought it would be Greenspan. Bang! Stopped reading after that.


39 posted on 11/21/2012 1:18:26 PM PST by EQAndyBuzz (George W. Bush is the Emmanuel Goldstein of the modern era.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

somebody forgot the /s switch...


40 posted on 11/21/2012 1:43:11 PM PST by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Perdogg
Oh yeah? Why didn't he say this brilliant stuff that was on the same web-page today? Huh???
41 posted on 11/21/2012 2:23:48 PM PST by SierraWasp (Welcome to the next 50 months of an unprecedebted lame duck session!!!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Grampa Dave; tubebender; budwiesest; NormsRevenge; dixiechick2000; ...

Whatever happened to the old and much better descriptor “cliff-hanger” that alla us ol timers rememmer? Wasssup wid dat???


42 posted on 11/21/2012 2:28:06 PM PST by SierraWasp (Welcome to the next 50 months of an unprecedebted lame duck session!!!)
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To: Sherman Logan; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Grampa Dave; BOBTHENAILER; Anybody; Everybody; All
Conservatives and liberals both often seem to think the LC says that reductions in tax rates will always result in increases in revenues. This is inaccurate."

It, the Laffer Curve, has worked every single time it has been tried and that's why the libs hate it!!!

This completely liberal author is a hold-over from when MarketWatch.com was known as CBSMarketWatch.com. This entire piece is a gigantic steaming pantload to put it mildly IMO!!!

43 posted on 11/21/2012 2:41:00 PM PST by SierraWasp (Welcome to the next 50 months of an unprecedebted lame duck session!!!)
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To: xzins; Grampa Dave; tubebender; NormsRevenge; Carry_Okie; dixiechick2000; budwiesest; ...
I wish it were possible to find that profound cartoon from 1978 that showed Jimmy Carter yanking on the tiller of our ship of state that was headed right for the rocks in a monsterous wind storm under full sail. Some guy was yellin at him from the shore "FURL THE SAIL... FURL THE SAIL... FURL THE SAIL!!!"

The sails had "SPENDING" writ large upon each one of them.

44 posted on 11/21/2012 2:51:39 PM PST by SierraWasp (Welcome to the next 50 months of an unprecedebted lame duck session!!!)
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To: SierraWasp
That seems to be the predominate opinion....

But sometimes it is useful to see what some of the leftist on market watch are posting....

I think there is one on MW that is further left than this guy....I have forgotten his name I'll remember it when I click on one his creations though.

45 posted on 11/21/2012 2:53:15 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ((The Global Warming Hoax was a Criminal Act....where is Al Gore?))
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To: SierraWasp
1978,....that was ancient history.....how could that have any relevance to our modern age....it is nearly as ancient as that piece done by those WHITE GUYS called

THE CONSTITUION


46 posted on 11/21/2012 2:57:27 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ((The Global Warming Hoax was a Criminal Act....where is Al Gore?))
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To: TChris

How about just fix the system doing triplets....


47 posted on 11/21/2012 3:00:08 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ((The Global Warming Hoax was a Criminal Act....where is Al Gore?))
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To: Armando Guerra; SierraWasp

but the Laffer Curve itself is indisputable.

**************************************************

You mean the Leftists won't dispute it ?

48 posted on 11/21/2012 3:04:51 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ((The Global Warming Hoax was a Criminal Act....where is Al Gore?))
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To: SierraWasp
Well....so you are a twinkie lover....didn't know that....

ROFL!

49 posted on 11/21/2012 3:06:57 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ((The Global Warming Hoax was a Criminal Act....where is Al Gore?))
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Grampa Dave
Easy big fella! I don't think any comment on this thread was aimed at you for posting it. MarketWatch.com has been a favorite site of mine for many years, except for most of the lame brained liberal commontators (deliberately mis-spelled).

I saw it and without thinking of you in particular, wished I'd had the time to post it as a pinyada, yada, yada!!! (smirk)

The guy is as stupid as the people who are trying to put Americans on a guilt-trip over our totally and purely American Holiday of Thanksgiving to God for surviving another year.

I just watched the Ken Burns series on PBS about the phenominal dust storms during the depression and even those people gave thanks to God for still one more chance in case the drought broke.

The liberals show themselves as simply maddening godless maniacs on a constant, continuing basis. Their mental illness knows no bounds as they perpetually blast the standards that made America the envy of Earth!!!

50 posted on 11/21/2012 3:09:34 PM PST by SierraWasp (Welcome to the next 50 months of an unprecedebted lame duck session!!!)
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