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Letís talk more about abortion
NY Daily News ^ | 11.21.12 | S.E. Cupp

Posted on 11/21/2012 3:53:39 PM PST by Coleus

This past weekend, I was down in Washington and had a chance to talk to some Republican lawmakers and strategists on Capitol Hill about the trouncing we took in the presidential election.

Over and over again, the fear that the conservative pro-life position may have contributed to our loss came up. Their solution? We have to stop talking about it.

But this cannot be an option. The respect for life is a moral imperative that defines conservatism as much as fiscal responsibility. Conservatism cannot abandon it and remain uncompromised.

Over time, liberalism has normalized abortion, first insisting it should be “safe, legal and rare,” then painting pro-life advocates as fanatics who should be ostracized for foisting their puritanism on the public.

Conservatives need to reclaim the conversation — which they can’t do without talking about it.

Rabbi Shmuley Boteach writes in the Jewish Press that “religious extremists who are obsessed with abortion, rape and sex” should speak about it “from an asylum.”

His advice has become common sense in the wake of Mitt Romney’s defeat: “Get this conversation out of the GOP.”

The problem with that is that it allows liberals to own this issue. The debate over contraception that occupied so much campaign conversation wasn’t started by Rick Santorum and Catholic bishops. Theirs was a response to President Obama’s mandate essentially requiring Catholic organizations to ignore their convictions and provide insurance coverage for birth control for their employees.

Senate candidates Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock didn’t introduce the subjects of abortion and rape, either — they were asked about them during debates. Yes, they responded atrociously, but Republicans don’t campaign wearing sandwich boards that say, “Ask me about rape.” The media cynically ask these questions to elicit crazy responses. In those two cases, mission accomplished.

So even when we don’t talk about it, liberals will find a way to get us to discuss abortion. We may as well direct the conversation instead of being dragged into it unprepared.

Another thought is that men don’t belong in this debate. Even the President rang that bell, saying, “This is exactly why you don’t want a bunch of politicians, mostly male, making decisions about women’s health care decisions.”

Putting aside the fact that he is perfectly comfortable making decisions about our health care, discussing abortion is the job of politicians, and we do want a bunch of them advocating for the policies we prefer. Citizens don’t write laws themselves.

And men do belong in the debate. The strongest argument I’ve heard against abortion was my father’s. There are sane, compassionate voices on this issue, and that they don’t have uteruses shouldn’t disqualify them.

“Stick to science” is another frequent invocation. When it comes to Akin, who believed babies conceived from rape magically disappear, that credo is a good one.

But the pro-life argument is based on sound science.

In the DNA of a fertilized embryo is the complete design of a human being, mapping eye color and other hereditary traits. Within weeks, the human embryo meets all the criteria needed to count as living: metabolism, reaction to stimuli, reproduction.

That’s the science — from there, the questions enter the realm of morality. As Ann Furedi, head of the largest independent abortion provider in Britain, said in a 2008 debate, “the point is not when does human life begin, but when does it really begin to matter?” Well, if that’s the point, then science really isn’t the issue.

Half the electorate is pro-life. That means we have to talk about life in compelling, compassionate ways that resonate.

We have to stand up for life without standing against women. And, yes, we have to put up better candidates who make sane, rational pro-life arguments. The solution for conservatives isn’t to talk about it less, it’s to talk about it more — and better. secupp@redsecupp.com


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; nj9th; richardmourdock; shmuleyboteach; toddakin

1 posted on 11/21/2012 3:53:44 PM PST by Coleus
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To: SJackson; All

Just as an FYI, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach ran as a pro-choice candidate for congress in NJ. He quoted the Book of Exodus, where it said that the fetus does not have the same legal status as a person and that in Jewish Law you have to side with the person who you know is alive.


2 posted on 11/21/2012 4:01:46 PM PST by Coleus
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To: Coleus

Abortion of a human life is the single biggest atrocity mankind will ultimately have to pay for, that has done an untold amount of harm to our civilization.

Great artists, engineers, and scientists who will never have an impact - the potential to mankind we will never know.


3 posted on 11/21/2012 4:01:55 PM PST by mike_9958
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To: Coleus
Rabbi Boteach...(FAUZ RELIGIOUS PERSON) was BEST friends with Michael Jackson!! He is VILE....he called a perfectly nice Catholic lady, cant remember her name, a PEASANT for having PRO-LIFE views!!

JEWS of all people, other than Church going Catholics, should be PRO-LIFE considering they were almost KILLED off!! Are they STUPID or EVIL...pick one.

4 posted on 11/21/2012 4:05:10 PM PST by Ann Archy (ABORTION........the HUMAN sacrifice to the god of CONVENIENCE.)
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To: Coleus
Just my opinion, of course, but I think stressing the immorality of abortion is a dead-end and a vote-killer for the GOP.

Instead, I would recommend stressing the dangers of abortion to women.

There are a multitude of problems: physical, psychological, emotional and spiritual.

The GOP should sympathize with women instead of condemning them.

The GOP should offer support and answers to the multitude of problems mentioned above.

The GOP can do this and still retain its pro-life position.

5 posted on 11/21/2012 4:07:11 PM PST by eCSMaster (2012 elections: American Coup d'etat!)
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To: Coleus
"Even the President rang that bell, saying, “This is exactly why you don’t want a bunch of politicians, mostly male, making decisions about women’s health care decisions.”

By his own criterion, Obama should be entirely disqualified from making any military decisions.

6 posted on 11/21/2012 4:08:45 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Coleus

“Don’t talk about it”

Yeah, great strategy.... until the MSM asks you about it... What do you do then? Change the subject?

Conservatives need to learn how to be STRONG on this issue. I had an abortion debate with someone recently. They were pro-choice, but through some very basic arguments, I got them to the point where they felt uncomfortable about their own positions, and agreed that abortion should be more difficult to get, with strict limits and regulations. I’m not a master debater, I just know my arguments, and I know the arguments on the other side.

We could learn a lot from Reagan. I think it was the Mondale debate, in which he was asked about his pro-life position, and he had a great analogy about a man in California killing his wife’s baby during a night of drunken abuse. He was charged with murder. Killing a baby, whether you are a mother, father, or stranger, is murder.

Ask liberals if they would be happy to perform an abortion. They will likely shuffle uncomfortably and say, “no”. Follow up by asking why they would support an action they clearly find to be too morally abhorrent to carry out themselves. Ask them if they could look at pictures of aborted children without cringing, and if not, why would they support what is shown?

We can win this argument, because we are right. We just need to know our stuff, and argue it well. Make it an issue of morality and life. Choice is a wonderful thing, but I cannot just “choose” to kill the guy in front of me at Target because it would be “convenient”. If we want to tackle the problem of unplanned pregnancy in this country, we have to battle the root cause, and not throw out a quick fix that takes an innocent life.

This should be ISSUE #1 when it comes to planning for the future elections, because we handled this question terribly this time around, and the MSM are eager to ask it again.


7 posted on 11/21/2012 4:10:34 PM PST by Viennacon
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To: Ann Archy

I forgot to mention that Rabbi Boteach ran as a republican. And let’s just say that in the primary he was very rude to his 2 Catholic opponents.


8 posted on 11/21/2012 4:12:29 PM PST by Coleus
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To: Coleus

I agree. Personally, I don’t care if two men want to get “married” to each other, or if someone wants to smoke pot, but an unborn child is an innocent life that needs protection, that can’t speak for itself. I think the long-term trend is going to come our way on this issue, as science brings more and more clarity to exactly what goes on in those first few weeks in the womb. Just looking at a woman six weeks pregnant, maybe you might think her pregnancy is just an amorphous nothingness, a medical condition basically, but with ultrasound and other kinds of technology, we can clearly see that THAT’S A BABY IN THERE!!!

That said, there’s no freakin’ excuse for idiots like Akin and Mourdock to flub questions that they should have memorized the answers to decades ago. It’s ridiculous.


9 posted on 11/21/2012 4:17:04 PM PST by Behind the Blue Wall
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To: Coleus

He is a DISGUSTING person.....I don;t care that he ran as a Republican...he is RUDE, OBNOXIOUS and VILE!!! There is NOTHING Holy about him...NOTHING!!! He ACTS like he;s ANTI-CATHOLIC.


10 posted on 11/21/2012 4:17:04 PM PST by Ann Archy (ABORTION........the HUMAN sacrifice to the god of CONVENIENCE.)
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To: Coleus
Abortion is the most uncivil practice we could ever indulge. Its hiddenness contributes to its acceptance. Now, liberals are big on education, so it seems to me, if we are going to tolerate abortion in our midst, we ought all agree to at least together show and tell it like it is.

I sense that the more we talk about it the less it will occur, but the more we attempt to legislate it the more we will stir up resistance.

Incivility must be pointed out at every turn, both in public and in private, if we are going to inhabit a relatively peaceable world. I would encourage social conservatives to doggedly point out instances of incivility that include abortion, thievery, harm to life and property of others, and any case where natural law is transgressed. The time has become more ripe than ever.

But don't think speaking out comes with no price.

11 posted on 11/21/2012 4:17:19 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew (double trouble, here we come)
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To: Coleus

My goal is to shine the light on the myth of “Partial Birth Abortion”.

Why is there no open conversation questioning the alleged process of PBA?

Does anyone really believe that the doc interrupts the birth process, flips the baby over, in utero, stops the final thrust, keeping the baby’s head inside, while killing him or her?

Can you believe that anyone would assert that there is a medical case, wherein this would be safer for the mother, than completing the delivery?

The simple fact is there are no “Partial Birth Abortions”.

The baby is delivered and then killed.


12 posted on 11/21/2012 4:28:09 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Incivility must be pointed out at every turn, both in public and in private, if we are going to inhabit a relatively peaceable world. I would encourage social conservatives to doggedly point out instances of incivility that include abortion, thievery, harm to life and property of others, and any case where natural law is transgressed.

By that logic, maybe we could have averted WWII by informing the Germans that their conduct was uncivil. If people don't already know that ripping a child from his mother's womb is "uncivil" then nothing you can possibly say will convince them. They simply don't care. The best we can hope for at this point is that we don't have to pay for it (and that's not looking good now that the "Affordable Care Act" has been forced upon us).

13 posted on 11/21/2012 4:28:38 PM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: Coleus
I propose FREE Abortions for Registered Democrats.
And also for those who take and pass a questionnaire on "Left Wing Politics"
All those in favor?

Yes it's Sarcasm.

14 posted on 11/21/2012 4:29:25 PM PST by Falcon4.0
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To: Coleus

Ardent pro-lifers need to go assyetrical if they wish to go anywhere in their war.

Start with fleshing out the abortion positions of other liberal groups and paint it in their terms. An example I gave in another thread was — go after PETA for being and constantly remind them (and the public) that they’re pro murder of unborn children while overemphasising animal rights.

Start reminding the NAACP that abortion largely affects Black unborn babies than whites.

Hit the gay and lesbian groups with the thought that women may choose abortion if they knew their child would be gay.

Hit it as a womans issue as families are more apt to abort a unborn female in hopes of gendering a male afterwards.

Find ways to wedge and split liberal groups over the abortion issue.


15 posted on 11/21/2012 4:32:32 PM PST by Usagi_yo
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To: Coleus

“...making decisions about women’s health care decisions.”

When did killing your baby, become a “health care decision”?


16 posted on 11/21/2012 4:32:47 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: Fester Chugabrew

Abortion is inhuman, vile and brutal. So is brutal & violent rape. I am having hard time coming to terms with sending the pregnant woman to prison if she chooses to abort the pregnancy immediately. No abortion after 60 days after rape.


17 posted on 11/21/2012 4:35:29 PM PST by entropy12 (2-3 new SCOTUS appointments by Obama will ensure killing of unborn for next 30 years)
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To: G Larry
When did killing your baby, become a “health care decision”?

Ironically, the idea of the federal government classifying abortion as a form of contraception seems to have originated with Anthony Comstock.

18 posted on 11/21/2012 4:40:29 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Viennacon
. . . until the MSM asks you about it... What do you do then? Change the subject?

You welcome the question, and first say it is so important the answer needs to be put into writing rather than sound bytes. Have your position written down clearly for all to see, and make clear why abortion is the last choice a civil person should ever make; that only in the rarest of circumstances would it be morally acceptable. Even then it points to a condition in our midst that warrants thinking on a higher plane.

Civility also entails forgiveness. The law is unforgiving. I do not think legslation will change the hearts of women who are willfully ignorant or evil, but loud, incessant voices pointing to the good may save many innocent lives.

From a legal perspective the issue is most definitely better determined at local and state levels.

19 posted on 11/21/2012 4:43:23 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew (double trouble, here we come)
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To: BlatherNaut
By that logic, maybe we could have averted WWII . . .

The contingencies of past silence do not excuse the obligation to speak up where there is wrong. I must agree - there are many people who do not care, even more than we. They are precisely the ones whose incivility ought be pointed out to their face and to the whole world. Testify to what is right and good. Go down with the Truth on your side.

20 posted on 11/21/2012 4:48:40 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew (double trouble, here we come)
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To: Coleus

I would guess that the number of women who expect to have an abortion or want to have an abortion is close to zero. Many of them will, but it is not a self definable group.

The vast majority in this country feel that abortion should be throttled back. Most of the ones that don’t have already been through menopause and would just like to feel good about themselves regarding the killing of their kids.

As medical science moves forward, it has become very clear to the younger generation; A fetus is a human, the fetus is an entity in it’s own, and killing it is killing an individual. A fellow human being...

Abortion will end in this country. It’s not going to end tomorrow, but it will end.

That’s my position...


21 posted on 11/21/2012 4:49:52 PM PST by babygene
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To: entropy12
I am having hard time coming to terms with sending the pregnant woman to prison if she chooses to abort the pregnancy immediately.

There is no reason we cannot treat these matters on a case by case basis, but the life of the innocent unborn ought to be our first obligation to the extent we want to be a civil society. Granted, there are those who take no interest in having a civil society, and these will be dealt with one way or another.

It used to be that abortion was one of those things we knew happened, but was understood to be abhorrent. It was not something we felt necessary to legislate about because it was known to be inherently wrong; kept hush hush. Alas, it has become a matter of convenience. This is not good.

22 posted on 11/21/2012 4:53:55 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew (double trouble, here we come)
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To: Coleus

[ Another thought is that men don’t belong in this debate. Even the President rang that bell, saying, “This is exactly why you don’t want a bunch of politicians, mostly male, making decisions about women’s health care decisions.” ]

Not men but female ditz’s that just voted in the most corrupt President in american history.. THOSE WOMEN.?.

People guided by their emotions... judging politicians whether they have good hair.. and offering FREE STUFF.. THOSE WOMEN?...

Women that want the right to murder their babies and have sex with any baby daddy they can find.. medically cared for by people that actually work..

THOSE WOMEN?... women that refuse to know how “things” actually work, and imagine how things should work if only they had enough pixie dust..

S.E. Cupp is outing herself as a “DITZ”..


23 posted on 11/21/2012 4:59:42 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: Behind the Blue Wall

// Personally, I don’t care if two men want to get “married” to each other //

That’s not the issue. That’s a phony liberal argument.

The two guys don’t just quietly live their little lives. They force the entire society to accept and worship their wicked ways. Homosexual revolutionaries and their Bolshevik allies take away our religious freedoms, freedom of association, commerce, employment, renting rooms, you name it. They want to take all that away from you.

I do care if two guys want to get married. Because they will force me to care. Bend over now!


24 posted on 11/21/2012 5:02:11 PM PST by heye2monn (A)
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To: Coleus

Before this last election, the surveys were saying that the majority of Americans were against abortion. So, what happened? I used to be a Democrat. I know that their greatest fear is that there are/will be too many people in this world. A lot of it is the fear that there will be too many black and brown and red and yellow people on this planet. The Democrats can squabble among themselves about economics and foreign affairs and environmental policy, but they go lockstep on abortion. Do they hate babies? Nope. Some of the most caring grandparents you’ll ever meet. Then why are they OK with killing babies if they don’t hate them? Because they are afraid. Have you ever been around somebody that’s terrified? You can’t debate with them.


25 posted on 11/21/2012 5:46:20 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Coleus
When a serial killer halts a pregnancy in the third trimester, he ends the pregnancy by stickling a knife in there and cutting the baby to pieces and ripping them out on piece at a time. I wonder if that hurts.

When a serial killer halts a life in a partial birth abortion, he waits for the baby to stick a head out in search of a new and wondrous life out there. The baby sticks his or her head into a hand held vice held by a serial killer. The serial killer squashes the head until the brain sprays out like he is squashing a grape. I wonder if that hurts.

Many would-have-been moms think about what they did and drink hemlock or play in some equally permanent game. I wonder if the serial killers who gave them such cause add them to the butcher's toll.

Some would-have-been moms think about what they did and, well, go permanently nuts. My guess is they never get on the butcher's list. Nevertheless, my guess is the butchers look on them with pride and a sense of accomplishment.

26 posted on 11/21/2012 5:56:33 PM PST by stevem
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To: blueunicorn6

They are afraid that their families will suffer or be less well off if there are more people in this world. Do you want to know what liberal white Democrats think about the fact that a disproportionate number of abortions happen in the black and Latino communities? They’re fine with that. The Democrats can tell you, quite loudly, how many blacks there are in any profession as a percentage of that profession. But do they worry about the percentage of blacks having abortions? Nope. And those abortions are taking black lives.
If you want to see all civility break down, threaten someone’s kids in front of them. Mom and Dad are scared about what will happen to their son’s and daughter’s lives and dreams if they have a baby. They love their kids but they don’t know their grand kids that are aborted. People fear that all those babies would take time, care,attention and resources away from their kids. The casual acceptance of abortion by so many in our country is the most mercenary, cold-blooded behavior I have seen.


27 posted on 11/21/2012 6:00:46 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: blueunicorn6

So, what do we do? Well, we start by driving out fear. That’s why I’m so strongly against illegal drug use. Using illegal drugs to escape reality is cowardice. And fear is what drives abortion.
Stephen Covey had a great way of dealing with divisive issues. Sit down with the person and make an agreement. Neither one of you can argue for your position until you have explained the other person’s thoughts and feelings on the issue. And you have to explain it to their satisfaction. When they say “OK, that’s how I see it”, then you have the other person do the same thing. When both of you say, “Ok, that’s how I see it”, then you can start the traditional discussion. This is a powerful tool. The pro-abortion people know their fears are wrong. They know abortion is barbaric. When they hear you saying their arguments, it shows that you value them and that you have considered their arguments. It is a way to really open up a mind. They’ll be scared. Call them a chicken. Shame them. Lives are at stake.


28 posted on 11/21/2012 6:13:08 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: hosepipe

“Not men but female ditz’s that just voted in the most corrupt President in american history.. THOSE WOMEN.?.”

Some are ditzy but many are ruthless - the philosophical descendents of Madame Defarge (e.g. Nancy Pelosi, Hillary, Sebelius, and the legions of women who staunchly support abortion with full knowledge of what it entails). Convenience and “choice” are more sacred to these people than the lives of those whose existences interfere with their plans, or whose eradication will benefit them in the form of campaign contributions or votes.


29 posted on 11/21/2012 6:24:57 PM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: entropy12
I am having hard time coming to terms with sending the pregnant woman to prison if she chooses to abort the pregnancy immediately.

That's a red herring. Prior to Roe v. Wade, women who had abortions were never sent to prison; in fact, they were never prosecuted. It was the abortionist who was sent to prison, lost his license to practice medicine, etc. Always.

30 posted on 11/21/2012 6:42:32 PM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion

Exactly. Much of the reasoning for prosecuting the purveyor lay in the Hippocratic oath which very deliberately proscribed abortion and abortifacients. But the Hippocratic oath, the original oath, is no longer a requirement for medical license or practice. “Safe” abortion—so far as the would-be mother was concerned— Hippocrates well knew, had always been and would always be available. But as an ethicist he, as well as every sane, civilized human being, knew it was unconscionable. Any form of abortion isn’t just barbarian, it’s deliberately, perversely, definitively inhuman. And liberals think WE’RE narrow-minded. They chose the language, and that’s their advantage. It’s about time we chose the language, and it needs to be blunt and bold.


31 posted on 11/21/2012 8:16:03 PM PST by Mach9
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To: Coleus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9LymhuHzLo&list=UUBABsFdW6BWDykitKZAt8vg&index=2&feature=plcp


32 posted on 11/21/2012 8:16:26 PM PST by IslamE (epiphany)
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To: Coleus

http://www.equalprotectionforposterity.com/the-equal-protection-for-posterity-resolution.html


33 posted on 11/21/2012 8:20:11 PM PST by EternalVigilance (America's creed: Our rights come from God, not men. Governments exist to secure those rights.)
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To: Campion

Try selling that to single women under 30. That age group is unfortunately becoming more pro-abortion by the day. 99% will probably not even experience an unwanted pregnancy. So many contraceptive items are available on market at very reasonable prices. As Rush said today, the fear of getting an unwanted pregnancy drove them to vote for the abortionist Mr Obama. He is for killing babies born alive during a botched abortion. Now he gets to appoint 2 or 3 SCOTUS justices, and we are toast for 30+ years on this issue.


34 posted on 11/21/2012 10:15:12 PM PST by entropy12 (2-3 new SCOTUS appointments by Obama will ensure killing of unborn for next 30 years)
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