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Man shoots and kills charging dog in Charlotte County(FL)
fox4now.com ^ | 21 November, 2012 | Staff

Posted on 11/22/2012 4:50:18 AM PST by marktwain

GULF COVE, Fla. - A man out on a walk Tuesday morning came face to face with two charging dogs in Gulf Coast. He shot and killed one of the dogs.

A witness told deputies he saw the entire incident in the area of Gillot Boulevard and Holton Terrace.

Deputies met with Frank Gross, 63, who lives several blocks away on Flemming Street. He advised he was out for his usual five-mile walk along the same route he takes every day. He said two large Boxer dogs were let out of the home at 5403 Holton Terrace and were not on leashes. Gross said he was across the street and the two dogs came charging towards him. He said he yelled for the dogs to get back, but they kept coming. Fearing for his safety, Gross told deputies he reached into his fanny pack and withdrew a .22 caliber pistol and fired one shot killing one of the dogs; the second dog fled.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; defense; dog; fl
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More than one dog is a "pack". Dogs in a pack behave much differently than individual dogs.
1 posted on 11/22/2012 4:50:26 AM PST by marktwain
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To: AnAmericanMother; Titan Magroyne; Badeye; SandRat; arbooz; potlatch; afraidfortherepublic; ...
WOOOF!

Computer Hope

The Doggie Ping list is for FReepers who would like to be notified of threads relating to all things canid. If you would like to join the Doggie Ping Pack (or be unleashed from it), FReemail me.

2 posted on 11/22/2012 4:53:21 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: marktwain

If you can’t afford a home with a yard contained by a fence or are too lazy to walk your own large, aggressive dogs on a leash, you get what’s coming to you.


3 posted on 11/22/2012 4:53:55 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: marktwain

>>More than one dog is a “pack”. Dogs in a pack behave much differently than individual dogs.

Very good point! I think it must be something to do with the hunting instinct - none of them wants to be last at the table.


5 posted on 11/22/2012 5:00:32 AM PST by expat1000
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To: marktwain

The dogs were coming to lick him

Over exuberant killing


6 posted on 11/22/2012 5:01:52 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: fwdude
If you can’t afford a home with a yard contained by a fence or are too lazy to walk your own large, aggressive dogs on a leash, you get what’s coming to you.

Unfortunately, the dog pays the bigger price. What's more, a man minding his own business was put in fear of his well-being and forced to shoot a brute animal.
7 posted on 11/22/2012 5:02:00 AM PST by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: marktwain

The story says he takes this 5 mile walk along the same route every day. He lives a few blocks away.

It would be hard to convince me that he has not encountered these same two dogs before. This day he took his pistol with him, and shot one of them.

I feel the shooting was intentional.

Now we do not know the circumstances.
1. Was he bitten before?
2. Did he ask the man who owns th dogs to keep them penned?
3. Why couldn’t he change his daily route so as to not meet these dogs?

4. Did the dog owner deliberately turn the dogs loose on this man?


8 posted on 11/22/2012 5:06:26 AM PST by Venturer
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To: bert

“The dogs were coming to lick him”

Certainly possible but unless you were there to see the event you can’t really say that for sure.

People should be free to walk down the street without being accosted by uncontrolled dogs. The dog paid the price for the lazy owner.


9 posted on 11/22/2012 5:10:49 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Venturer

>>This day he took his pistol with him, and shot one of them.

Where did you read that he only carried the gun on “this day”? He might carry a gun every day.

Also, a human should not have to change his daily route to avoid uncontrolled aggressive dogs. Talking to the owner is useless in most cases because all you get is the old “awww, these dogs wouldn’t hurt a fly!” response. Or you might get an angrier response and wind up having to shoot the owner.

Calling Animal Control us useless too. If they even show up, they’ll tell the owner to restrain his dogs and he’ll say that he will...and he won’t do it after they’re gone.

This is Florida and we don’t have an obligation to retreat from a human attacker, so a large attacking dog certainly gets shot.


10 posted on 11/22/2012 5:19:47 AM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: marktwain

“... fired one shot killing one of the dogs...”

Somebody has been spending time at the range.


11 posted on 11/22/2012 5:21:32 AM PST by moovova (Happy Thanksgiving to all. Say a prayer for your country when you bow your head today.)
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To: Venturer; All

The original story says that there was a witness who saw the dogs charging Gross. The witness said the dog that was shot was about a foot away from where Gross was standing when it was shot.

A foot is much to close to large dog that is acting very aggressively.


12 posted on 11/22/2012 5:27:18 AM PST by marktwain
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To: moovova

“fired one shot killing one of the dogs...””

“Somebody has been spending time at the range”

More like, “The dogs approached him and one of them stood still long enough for him to shoot it.” I believe this was planned. I’ve yet to meet a Boxer that is truly aggressive.


13 posted on 11/22/2012 5:31:29 AM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: Bryanw92

In my opinion this man has had this happen more than once he walks the same route every day,and this day he decided to shoot the dog.

The right or wrong of it is not the topic of discussion to me, but I do believe he started out this morning with his mind made up to shoot the dog.


14 posted on 11/22/2012 5:42:28 AM PST by Venturer
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To: moovova; All
Somebody has been spending time at the range.

You do not have to be a great marksman to hit a large animal a foot away from you.

15 posted on 11/22/2012 5:42:36 AM PST by marktwain
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To: Venturer; All
I do believe he started out this morning with his mind made up to shoot the dog.

Your opinion would imply that he expected the dogs to be running loose.

16 posted on 11/22/2012 5:45:07 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

See my post 14


17 posted on 11/22/2012 5:46:00 AM PST by Venturer
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To: Venturer

It is certainly possible.


18 posted on 11/22/2012 5:47:37 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

If police departments were like college football teams, this man would be widely recruited.


19 posted on 11/22/2012 5:47:59 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Global Warming is a religion, and I don't want to be taxed to pay for a faith that is not mine.)
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To: Venturer
1. Was he bitten before? 2. Did he ask the man who owns th dogs to keep them penned? 3. Why couldn’t he change his daily route so as to not meet these dogs? 4. Did the dog owner deliberately turn the dogs loose on this man?

1. Irrelevant
2. Not his responsibility
3. Why can't he assume he can walk on public land where ever he damn well pleases.
4. Is he supposed to figure that out while being mauled? ABSURD!

BANG! BANG! End of story. . .He was well within his rights to defend himself against two aggressive dogs that were charging him.

20 posted on 11/22/2012 5:47:59 AM PST by McBuff
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To: Venturer

Then the owner of the dog is responsible. If your imagination is correct, then this poor man is attacked by these dogs often and he finally got fed up.

Plug this into your imagination: if the man walked by the dogs every day and poked them with a stick through a fence, and one day the fence was open, would you blame the dogs for getting fed up with the daily abuse and attacking him?


21 posted on 11/22/2012 5:48:08 AM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: All

I have 3 labrador retrievers. A nice fellow walks every day in my neighborhood, swinging a cane. I keep my dogs inside, unless they go to their fenced yard in the back.... But every day when he passes by, they are jumping at the window, like they are wanting to get outside and tear this guy a new orifice. I keep my dogs contained. They bark. He goes by. All is well. He carries his cane, not because he needs it to walk, but because he might need it to protect himself. He too, probably carries a fire-arm in his fanny-pack. Good for him. I love my dogs, I also know that idiots turn their dogs out, without a second thought. Whether lab or pit bull.... If you love your dogs, keep them contained and away from those who may be bearing arms and potentially fearing for their life.


22 posted on 11/22/2012 5:51:36 AM PST by Klemper
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To: marktwain

I find boxers to be as affectionate as pit bulls. If you
don’t run usually your all right. As long as they don’t
sense any fear and feel any threat then once you pet them, your pals. Great dogs.


23 posted on 11/22/2012 6:05:01 AM PST by Slambat (The right to keep and bear arms. Anything one man can carry, drive or pull.)
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To: bert

“The dogs were coming to lick him
Over exuberant killing”

Most likely the case here.


24 posted on 11/22/2012 6:20:19 AM PST by Slambat (The right to keep and bear arms. Anything one man can carry, drive or pull.)
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To: marktwain

Charging dogs?!?!!?

What kind of credit card were they using?


25 posted on 11/22/2012 6:22:34 AM PST by glorgau
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To: Slambat

Pooches running up to greet usually show it with their body language. Tail wags, teeth not bared.


26 posted on 11/22/2012 6:25:29 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: marktwain

The legal bottom line is that:

1) Dogs are animals. They do not have civil rights.

2) Dogs are property. Despite the emotional attachment their owners may assign to them, and the invariable, “If you hurt my dog I will kill you!”, the law does not see it that way.

If a dog menaces a person, “in their opinion”, and they kill that dog, they are not even guilty of animal cruelty, unless the means they used was intended to cause suffering, not just kill. Likewise, they are generally not even subject to civil liability.

In many cities across the US, dogs are not permitted to wander unleashed. If they are unleashed, and off your property, they may be killed at will.

Any unlicensed, unleashed dog off your property may be killed at any time, by a citizen, the police, or animal control.


27 posted on 11/22/2012 6:36:49 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: marktwain; mickie
This is an established, rather sleepy, nice subdivision in Charlotte county, Florida......medium to high middle-class homes, white-collar, lots of retirees, well below state-average crime rate.

Was he packin' heat for humanoids or animals on his daily runs?....I report, you decide.

Leni

28 posted on 11/22/2012 6:37:37 AM PST by MinuteGal (Please Restore Former Format on FR "Latest Posts" Page ASAP !)
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To: bert
The dogs were coming to lick him.

My daughter and I were out one day for a walk when, from across a small field a huge Golden Lab came tearing out of its yard and running toward us full tilt. It got right to us, looking as if it were about to lunge, then promptly fell down, rolled over onto its back and peed all over itself.

I'm inclined to think that these boxers were victims of circumstance.

29 posted on 11/22/2012 6:43:50 AM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: marktwain

I love dogs and am a responsible dog owner, but I detest irresponsible dogs/owners who let their charges run free to threaten people and do damage to personal property.

Good for Frank and good for the local authorities for recognizing that Frank had the right to defend himself. Tough toenails for the dog owner in this case. This case rings a bell with me because I have been in the same situation as Frank, but I wasn’t armed at the time, but since, I have been carrying my Baretta 92F.

Also, at a public forum in my home county, the county sheriff had the gall, when asked a question about nuisance animals/pets attacking citizens, to say that such a response as Frank’s would be subject to criminal prosecution—that’s when this alleged Republican sheriff in TX lost my vote. The good sheriff won re-election, but without my vote, and that’s okay.


30 posted on 11/22/2012 7:01:32 AM PST by izzatzo
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To: marktwain
Is Frank Gross a Democrat or a Republican?

Democrat = Good Shoot
Republican = Crazed Dog Killer

31 posted on 11/22/2012 7:14:33 AM PST by MrBambaLaMamba (This Message Contains Privileged Attorney-Client Communications)
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To: McBuff

You got it all wrong!

It was ‘BANG! End of story...’

(sorry couldn’t resist 8^)


32 posted on 11/22/2012 7:16:28 AM PST by jonno (Having an opinion is not the same as having the answer...)
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To: Bryanw92; Venturer
Then the owner of the dog is responsible. If your imagination is correct, then this poor man is attacked by these dogs often and he finally got fed up. Plug this into your imagination: if the man walked by the dogs every day and poked them with a stick through a fence, and one day the fence was open, would you blame the dogs for getting fed up with the daily abuse and attacking him

Right. It could be the man has been hitting on one of the daughters of the dog owner and got her pregnant. The dog owner found out about it and threatened the man. The man started carrying a gun when he walks fearing the dog owner might come after him with a gun. The dog owner thought up a brilliant plan to go after him with his dogs. He looked out his window and saw the man go for a walk and set the dogs loose. The dog owner also voted for Obama. Yeah that's the ticket

33 posted on 11/22/2012 7:21:03 AM PST by plain talk
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To: marktwain

Nothing in the article suggests that the dogs were aggressive.

On the other hand many people are fearful of dogs, and two large dogs running at someone who is uncomfortable with dogs may trigger a defensive reaction.

If an owner cares about their dogs they should leash, fence, or supervise them.


34 posted on 11/22/2012 7:25:44 AM PST by dervish (either the vote was corrupt or the electorate is)
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To: raybbr

You should walk around my neighborhood then. Aggressive Boxers and Beagles abound.


35 posted on 11/22/2012 7:27:05 AM PST by Vor Lady (Everyone should read The Importance of the Electoral College by Geo. Grant)
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To: Venturer

Now we do not know the circumstances.
1. Was he bitten before?
2. Did he ask the man who owns the dogs to keep them penned?
3. Why couldn’t he change his daily route so as to not meet these dogs?


You exhibit the traits of a true liberal.

1. what does it matter if he was bitten or not?

2. How the hell is he supposed to know who owns the dogs. Better yet, can he make it to his front porch with 2 dogs hanging on his legs?

3. Change his route huh? Here is your liberal entry into the world of LaLa. Why should he have to change his route? To ignore the problem and let some other person get bit by these dogs while he did nothing about the problem?

4. Your reply to this statement was simply stupid. Don’t you think the man who shot the dogs would have mentioned that?

In summary: You are a true liberal. Rather than to solve the problem you believe you should solve the result of the problem and let the cause of the problem continue time after time after time.

The fact is that the man shot the dog and solved the problem. In addition that, he saved himself from possible harm and worse yet...death.


36 posted on 11/22/2012 7:27:05 AM PST by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: Venturer
"In my opinion this man has had this happen more than once he walks the same route every day,and this day he decided to shoot the dog. The right or wrong of it is not the topic of discussion to me, but I do believe he started out this morning with his mind made up to shoot the dog."

If similar incidents had previously happened, the person (or persons) at fault are the dogs owners, period. And the shooter was even more within his rights to have taken steps to prepare to protect himself.

My across the street neighbor has a female German Shepherd who is very docile, and a "mop-type" yapper who is very aggressive. Both dogs are allowed to "free run" (despite the local leash laws). The yapper has a habit of attacking people who walk or run down the street, and has bitten one person. I can guarantee that if that little ****** bites me, he is dead whenever I next see him. The Shepherd is a garbage binger, and invariably overturns at least one topless garbage can on pickup day.

Other neighbors have complained, yet these people have taken no action to change things. IOW, they are irresponsible ass holes (and probably voted for Obama).

MY dogs stay in their fenced yard, and only go out on leash.

I get my exercise indoors (treadmill/stepper/weights), but if I were to take up an outdoor run/walk regimen, I WOULD be armed at all times.

37 posted on 11/22/2012 7:31:15 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Klemper
If you love your dogs, keep them contained and away from those who may be bearing arms and potentially fearing for their life.

It's really as simple as that.

38 posted on 11/22/2012 7:32:32 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: MinuteGal

“Was he packin’ heat for humanoids or animals on his daily runs?....I report, you decide.”

You’re kidding, right? He was packing heat because he has a right to “pack heat”.

Nice try Lib.


39 posted on 11/22/2012 7:36:25 AM PST by Herodes
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To: plain talk

>>Right. It could be the man has been hitting on one of the daughters of the dog owner and got her pregnant. The dog owner found out about it and threatened the man. The man started carrying a gun when he walks fearing the dog owner might come after him with a gun. The dog owner thought up a brilliant plan to go after him with his dogs. He looked out his window and saw the man go for a walk and set the dogs loose. The dog owner also voted for Obama. Yeah that’s the ticket

What does that ridiculous story have to do with this thread? Read the OP. The dogs left the owner’s property and attacked the walker who had a gun (as many of us do in Florida) on a public street. You don’t wait until your forearm is in a powerful dog’s mouth before you fight back. Again, a Floridian does NOT have an obligation to retreat, especially from a threat that can easily run you down. The five simple words, “I feared for my life” is sufficient cause.


40 posted on 11/22/2012 7:37:08 AM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Vor Lady

What do you mean by aggressive? Boxers love to play and they play by “boxing”. Do they bite people?


41 posted on 11/22/2012 7:43:05 AM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: marktwain

Being confronted close-up by an aggressive dog is a very exciting experience.
Wild-eyed, snapping and growling, not backing away, and moving with lightning agility, a savage dog will get your heart rate up in seconds.
The last time it happened to me, I was wishing I had my .38 Special.


42 posted on 11/22/2012 7:50:53 AM PST by lurk
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To: Venturer
3. Why couldn’t he change his daily route so as to not meet these dogs?

And of course your question isn't appropriate.

43 posted on 11/22/2012 7:56:18 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: marktwain; MinuteGal
The dog (Astro) was about a foot away from where Gross was standing when shot.

In other words yes the dogs had charged him but they stopped when they got close to him. That's when he shot him, I'll bet, when they had stopped short of him as most dogs do.

Can you imagine kids playing outside as some guy reaches in his pack, pulls a gun out and then shoots at a moving dog??? Would you want such a person walking through your neighborhood??

These dogs or others in the neighborhood had probably charged him before interrupting his sacred walk but never injuring him. So he just wanted to teach them and their owner a lesson.

He will probably be personna non-grata now as people in the neighborhood when they see him coming will rush to bring their children and dogs inside for fear that he will reach into his fanny pack again if a dog comes up to him.

44 posted on 11/22/2012 7:58:31 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: MinuteGal
Was he packin' heat for humanoids or animals on his daily runs?....I report, you decide.

Well it's possible he was gunning for humanoids and it's possible so do you.

I report others can decide.

Unbelievable.

45 posted on 11/22/2012 8:04:46 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: Venturer

I have found that owners of large, aggressive dogs are often arrogant and entitled. We had a neighbor across the street and one house over who did not care if his dogs got out. I had the dog attack me when I went out to get our mail and run after my toddler in our own front yard. Fortunately, my children were not hurt.
I confronted the owner several times as well as his teenaged son who did not care whether the gate was closed when he left in the morning. They asked what we were doing to antagonize the dogs, what my child did to aggravate it, etc.
The problem was solved when I showed up when all family members were present. I informed the whole family (parents and teenagers) that their dog had gotten out, come to my home and tried to bite my child on my property. The next time I saw it outside their yard and not on a leash, I would shoot it, because it would promptly cross the street and try to attack us as being on “its” property.
The son tried to say it just got out and sniffed around. I explained to the parents it had come into my yard twice, nearly bit my toddler twice, on my yard, after seeing us from its front yard and running over. Then I reiterated, the next time it is outside of your yard and not on a leash, I will shoot it in defense of my family. They tried to argue. “I’m willing to kill an animal to protect my young child. If you do not like that, that is the fault of your child for failing to control the animal. And after I shoot it, I will call the police to say your negligence threatened the life of MY children.” The son asked what I’d do if there was a person just showed up in my home. I said I’d shoot a human intruder in defense of my family even faster, but was giving them one last chance to control the animal. Then I left.
The next day, there were boards up on the holes and gates of the fence. The son now only parked in the driveway, not in the garage where he had to open the driveway gate and the dog would wander out. After the absolute threat of killing the animal, after explaining our clear and present danger, they were willing to fix the problem.
Talking to the teenager, the mother separately and the father politely did no good. They said I exaggerated, heard each other’s minimization of my statements or criticized me for letting my child in the front yard (though I was right there with them).
Only the threat of a dead animal and police intervention (after dead animal) was enough to provoke action.


46 posted on 11/22/2012 8:24:20 AM PST by tbw2
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To: izzatzo
I have been in the same situation as Frank, but I wasn’t armed at the time

Same here. When I moved into my present neighborhood, my wife and I decided to take a walk around the block, several snarling dogs surrounded us in the street, we were immobilized. A woman came out of her house and called them off.

I told her that we had just moved into the area and that any time she saw me in the future, be assured, that I would be armed. I made an enemy that day but the dogs never came out again.

This is Illinois and all she had to do would be to call the cops the next time and if I had a gun on me, I would go to jail. I carried an aluminum base ball bat with me instead - better than nothing.

47 posted on 11/22/2012 8:32:38 AM PST by Graybeard58 (What G.O.P.e. candidate is in store for us in 2016?)
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To: tbw2

I had a similar problem with an ex neighbor who had several pitts they kept trying to jump my fence or break it down by throwing themselves at it to get to my dog. I had asked several times for him to control his dogs to no avail. I finally informed him if they got in my yard and killed my dog I would be coming after him as it was his responsibility to control the dogs and the dogs didnt didnt know better but he did...he chained them up and moved shortly thereafter....

I guess “cleaning” my shotgun in the yard when he was outside and target practice with plastic primer powered blanks in my pistol caught his attention....the sound of a shotgun slide being racked seems to have universal understanding that crosses all language, cultural and stupidity barriers...


48 posted on 11/22/2012 8:40:51 AM PST by rolling_stone
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To: Herodes; FreeReign; mickie; flaglady47
Get lost, creep.

People here in Florida often jog while armed for protection. You didn't get my post at all, you humorless boob who rarely posts on FR.

When you have something comparable to my 14 years on FR as a poster and Class of '98 veteran of the Clinton-years trench warfare, as "BahamaMama" (organizer of three FR fund-raising cruises), as member of the former FR Board of Directors and FAB (Forum Advisory Board), as "FRiva Diva" doing promotion for the Las Vegas FR convention, as reviver and re-organizer of my state's comatose FR chapter, etc. etc and so forth.....THEN you may be qualified to call me a "lib".

Leni

49 posted on 11/22/2012 8:52:30 AM PST by MinuteGal (Please Restore Former Format on FR "Latest Posts" Page ASAP !)
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To: tbw2

Like I said previously, I am not giving an opinion on whether or not the man was right in what he did.

Only my opinion that he set out that morning with intent.

I have had the same problems with dogs and when one of them came in my garage and attacked me, lets just say he won’t attack me any longer.

I agree with your assessment of people with aggressive dogs, since the dogs are not attacking them, they assume the dog will not attack others.


50 posted on 11/22/2012 9:09:47 AM PST by Venturer
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