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They Are Going To Make It Nearly Impossible To Pass On A Farm Or A Business To Your Children
Economic Collapse ^ | 20 November 2012 | Michael

Posted on 11/24/2012 6:59:49 AM PST by Lorianne

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To: Lorianne

I read some of the comments on this thread and I see why the concept of private property actually being private and not something to redistribute, is a dead idea.


51 posted on 11/24/2012 8:56:50 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: I want the USA back

So how do the real wealthy get away from this. Answer: residual trusts. They give there wealth away... due in 10-20 years. The family gets the interest/cap gains tax free until the bill is due. Results in a 5-15% inheritance tax. Slick, but only available to those with tax attorneys.


52 posted on 11/24/2012 8:57:42 AM PST by D Rider
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To: Vaduz
Sell the farm to the kids for $1.00 before you die,save on taxes.

The IRS will value the farm at a real value.

53 posted on 11/24/2012 8:59:47 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: Bryan24
Deed the land over to your children years before you die.

Gifting is taxable, unless you gift less than a paltry 13K per year per recipient.

54 posted on 11/24/2012 9:01:40 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: Lorianne

The gov’mint wants to control all food growth and all business. Food control to starve those who do not submit and business so they can tax all they want.


55 posted on 11/24/2012 9:03:27 AM PST by RetiredArmy (November 6, 2012: The day the United States Republic DIED.)
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To: LaMudBug

I’m not an expert on taxes which why I recommend planning ahead with someone is.

That said you are no expert either and your comments are worth every bit of the price. But bang on, Bug, bang on.


56 posted on 11/24/2012 9:12:45 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: FreeReign

Not true

Look up the unified gift and estate tax credit. Gifts are tracked over a lifetime with a far higher limit


57 posted on 11/24/2012 9:16:29 AM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: morphing libertarian

bump for later.


58 posted on 11/24/2012 9:33:07 AM PST by LachlanMinnesota
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To: LachlanMinnesota

Try IRS web site well explained


59 posted on 11/24/2012 9:37:04 AM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: sten

Ten years ago I had all I had put into a trust for my daughter. Screw the government. I had a tax lawyer figure out the means to do this and was one of the best $1000 I ever spent.


60 posted on 11/24/2012 9:37:23 AM PST by vetvetdoug
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To: morphing libertarian
Not true Look up the unified gift and estate tax credit. Gifts are tracked over a lifetime with a far higher limit

You're missing the point.

The lifetime unified gift and estate tax credit is only good up the amount equal to the estate tax exemption. Right now, there is a 5 million dollar estate tax exemption and anything above that is taxed at 35 percent. But on January 1st, the exemption will go down to 1 million dollars and the tax rate will go up to 55 percent.

Thus the unified gift and estate tax credit will not save the theoretical farmer in this article, or anybody else who dies with a million dollars, from this increase in private property confiscation.

61 posted on 11/24/2012 9:40:52 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: Lorianne

Yes, they are, but that is what the majority that voted, voted for. Not only that, they are going to make it impossible to own your, farm, business, or home. When obama gets through, all of those will belong to the government.


62 posted on 11/24/2012 9:42:54 AM PST by sport
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To: FreeReign

Not missing any point.

Only responded to the erroneous post stating $13,000 a year limit.


63 posted on 11/24/2012 9:44:04 AM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: Lorianne

Share the wealth Baby!


64 posted on 11/24/2012 9:46:35 AM PST by Doomonyou (Let them eat Lead.)
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To: morphing libertarian
Not missing any point. Only responded to the erroneous post stating $13,000 a year limit.

Okay good.

So then you fully understand that the unified gift and estate tax credit will not save the theoretical farmer in this article, or anybody else who dies with a million dollars, from this increase in private property confiscation.

And you fully understand that gifting does not avoid having to pay death taxes above and beyond estate tax exemption limits as some on this thread have "erroneously" suggested .

65 posted on 11/24/2012 9:52:21 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign

I fully understand you have a problem.


66 posted on 11/24/2012 10:26:42 AM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: Lorianne; All
With all due respect to whom it may concern, the only reason that people get upset when they hear that Congress is wrongly overstepping its Article I, Section 8-limited powers is people who have essentially never been taught about Congress's Section 8-limited power, which is evidently a lot of folks.

In a nutshell, regardless what FDR's activist justices wanted everybody to believe about Congress's Section 8 powers, given that Section 8 doesn't say anything about family issues like inheritance, or anything else pertaining to families including healthcare, the Founding States had made the 10th Amendment to clarify that such issues are automatically and uniquely state power issues.

But more importantly, Justice John Marshall had officially clarified in general that Congress is prohibited from laying taxes in the name of state power issues, essentially anything that it cannot justify under Section 8.

"Congress is not empowered to tax for those purposes which are within the exclusive province of the States." --Justice John Marshall, Gibbons v. Ogden, 1824.

Again, since you will not find any clause in Section 8 that reasonably addresses inheritance issues, inheritance is automatically a 10th Amendment proctected state power issue. Congress is therefore not authorized to make laws regulating inheritance, incuding establishing inheritance taxes, any more than it can make laws which regulate our 1st Amendment protected rights.

The bottom line question is this. Who is the real enemy to our constitutional republic, corrupt Congress, or voters who don't know about Congress's Section 8-limited powers? "Patriots" can sleep in the bed of ignorance of Congress's Section 8-limited powers that they have made for themselves.

67 posted on 11/24/2012 10:28:50 AM PST by Amendment10
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To: morphing libertarian
I fully understand you have a problem.

I fully see that you are both dumb and rude.

Great talking to you.

68 posted on 11/24/2012 10:45:56 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign

Please feel free to pester someone else. Your sanctimonious comments were unwelcome, unnecessary, and intrusive.


69 posted on 11/24/2012 10:51:22 AM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: morphing libertarian
Please feel free to pester someone else. Your sanctimonious comments were unwelcome, unnecessary, and intrusive.

You're the one who pinged me.

And then you're one one who said this...

I fully understand you have a problem.

And that's after I said "okay good", meaning that we agree.

But whatever floats your boat.

70 posted on 11/24/2012 10:58:42 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: Lorianne

The suck state MN alreadys has the 1M limit and hi tax rate over that, and I am dealing with it.


71 posted on 11/24/2012 11:22:45 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: Lorianne
They can take my small, family business when I pass on ... the only part I want to pass on to my kids is a small, inconsequential little box ... the Rolodex. :)

You can't keep a capitalist down, all you can do is shift his/her focus from one place to another. If America wants to turn into a giant "bedroom community" then I know plenty of other folks around he world who are interested in being industrious (and living richer lives).

72 posted on 11/24/2012 11:40:28 AM PST by The Duke
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To: sport; All
Not only that, they are going to make it impossible to own your, farm, business, or home. When obama gets through, all of those will belong to the government.

Please take the following chill pills sport, and quit spooking yourself.

First, using terms like "does not extend" and "exclusively," Thomas Jefferson had clarified the limits of Congress's Commerce Clause (1.8.3) powers.

“For the power given to Congress by the Constitution does not extend to the internal regulation of the commerce of a State, (that is to say of the commerce between citizen and citizen,) which remain exclusively (emphases added) with its own legislature; but to its external commerce only, that is to say, its commerce with another State, or with foreign nations, or with the Indian tribes.” –Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson’s Opinion on the Constitutionality of a National Bank : 1791.

And since you mentioned farms, please consider the following. When Constitution-ignoring socialist FDR first got into office in the 1930s, Constituton-respecting justices found some of his New Deal federal spending programs unconstitutonal, the United States v. Butler case dealing with agriculture being one example.

In fact, reflecting on Jefferson's clarification of the limits of Congress's Commerce Clause powers, here is an excerpt from Butler where justices clarified, in terms of the 10th Amendment, that Congress has no Section 8 authority to stick its big nose into intrastate agriculture.

"From the accepted doctrine that the United States is a government of delegated powers, it follows that those not expressly granted, or reasonably to be implied from such as are conferred, are reserved to the states, or to the people. To forestall any suggestion to the contrary, the Tenth Amendment was adopted. The same proposition, otherwise stated, is that powers not granted are prohibited. None to regulate agricultural production is given, and therefore legislation by Congress for that purpose is forbidden (emphasis added)."--Mr. Justice Roberts(?), United States v. Butler, 1936.

The reason that the Supreme Court now interprets Congress's Section 8-limited powers in Congress's favor is the following. Child-minded FDR had decided to get revenge on the Supreme Court for throwing out some of his New Deal programs. And regardless that he initially made of fool of himself trying to get Congress to stack the Court with additional justices, FDR was reelected enough times that he was eventually able to establish an activist justice majority who saw things his way.

In fact, when another agriculture-related case like Butler came along years later, FDR's justices seized the opportunity to essentially sweep the 10th Amendment under the carpet. Ignoring what Butler justices had clarified about agriculture and the 10th Amendment, and also ignoring Jefferson's clarification of the limits of Congress's Commerce Clause powers, using terms like "some concept" and "implicit," here is what was left of 10A after FDR's activist justices got finished with it in Wickard v. Filburn.

"In discussion and decision, the point of reference, instead of being what was "necessary and proper" to the exercise by Congress of its granted power, was often some concept of sovereignty thought to be implicit in the status of statehood (emphasis added). Certain activities such as "production," "manufacturing," and "mining" were occasionally said to be within the province of state governments and beyond the power of Congress under the Commerce Clause."--Wickard v. Filburn, 1942.

FDR's puppet justices had reduced 10A to a wives' tale imo.

The bottom line concerning restoring the constitutional republic is this. Patriots need to wise up to Congress's Article I, Section 8-limited powers and start using their voting muscle to force corrupt Congress back into its Section 8-limited power cage.

Finally, bear in mind that you're probaby not going to hear any of this from Fx News. I'm convinced that Section 8-ignoring Fx News is a part of the Left's propaganda machine.

73 posted on 11/24/2012 11:56:06 AM PST by Amendment10
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To: mindburglar

Stupid little Geico Gecko. Looters like Buffet are as much to blame for the coming collapse as the moochers.


74 posted on 11/24/2012 3:45:27 PM PST by griswold3 (Big Government does not tolerate rivals.)
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To: Lorianne

The collectivization of agriculture.

Steal from the red states to give alms to the blue states.

This is what it has come to folks.


75 posted on 11/24/2012 4:34:39 PM PST by Bon mots (Abu Ghraib: 47 Times on the front page of the NY Times | Benghazi: 2 Times)
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To: vetvetdoug
Ten years ago I had all I had put into a trust for my daughter. Screw the government. I had a tax lawyer figure out the means to do this and was one of the best $1000 I ever spent.

That's what my parents did, and it's worth every penny.

I'm going to start pushing them to check with the attorney for updates regarding new laws; I'd like to suggest you do the same.

76 posted on 11/24/2012 4:46:24 PM PST by SCalGal (Friends don't let friends donate to H$U$, A$PCA, or PETA.)
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To: YankeeReb

Want some more buffett at the buffet? Buffett owns Burlington Northern Santa Fe railroad, and “hosts” major amtrak routes-—that is to say amtrak has to rent the rail lines from them, at significant cost because freight has priority over passenger.
Amtrak being all stock held by US gov. this means US gov pays BNSF for the rail lines— so buffett is like a defense contractor.

Cannot stand this bs artist. Ivan Boesky was at least a fully admitted pirate. Nothing buffett does is really brilliant-he sits on the boards of the companies he trades... sweet cook up of the books.


77 posted on 11/24/2012 7:17:27 PM PST by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: Lorianne

That unjust law will eventually impoverish all of us. The more the government prints unbacked money to stimulate the economy, the more worthless the dollar becomes. We will become inflationary millionaires and then the government will rape us.


78 posted on 11/24/2012 11:10:40 PM PST by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: count-your-change

With the real estate in a family limited partnership or LLC? It’s not that hard to avoid it.


79 posted on 11/24/2012 11:26:07 PM PST by Last of the Mohicans
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To: Last of the Mohicans

Same old but good advice...Plam ahead.


80 posted on 11/24/2012 11:59:16 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: John S Mosby
Cannot stand this bs artist. Ivan Boesky was at least a fully admitted pirate. Nothing buffett does is really brilliant-he sits on the boards of the companies he trades... sweet cook up of the books.

God please forgive me for saying this, but the good news is both Buffet & $oros are well past 80 so ,10 years max and the world is shut of them.

81 posted on 11/25/2012 4:17:29 PM PST by YankeeReb
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