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New federal law may make replacing your furnace much costlier
NorthJersey.com ^ | November 23, 2012 | JAMES M. O’NEILL

Posted on 11/26/2012 3:13:25 PM PST by Timber Rattler

Replacing an aging furnace could cost homeowners thousands of dollars more after May 1, when new federal energy efficiency standards take effect for northern states, including New Jersey.

The new energy-efficient natural gas furnaces aren’t that much more expensive themselves, but they must be vented directly to an outside wall rather than through the chimney, which can increase installation costs dramatically, home heating contractors say.

(snip)

Under the Department of Energy rules, gas furnaces installed after May 1 must be at least 90 percent efficient, compared with the current 78 percent efficient criterion.

Similar improvements in energy efficiency are set to go into effect for heat pumps and air conditioning systems in Southern states.

(snip)

The rules were produced after Congress passed a law in 2007 allowing the Department of Energy to develop regional standards for central heating and cooling equipment.

Analysis by the U.S. Department of Energy concluded that between 2013 and 2045, the higher-efficiency furnaces, air conditioning systems and heat pumps would save about one-fifth of the amount of total energy used annually by the U.S. residential sector.

In addition, the drop in energy use would result in greenhouse gas reductions of up to 143 million metric tons of carbon dioxide over those three decades. That’s equivalent to the amount of carbon emitted each year to produce the electricity used by 1.8 million homes, or the carbon emissions produced from burning nearly 77,900 railcars worth of coal, according to an Environmental Protection Agency greenhouse gas calculator.

(Excerpt) Read more at northjersey.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Government; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: energy; furnace; hotair; law
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Might as well just hand your entire wallet over now and get it over with, along with your bank account and safe deposit box.
1 posted on 11/26/2012 3:13:40 PM PST by Timber Rattler
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To: Timber Rattler

I live in Texas, we don’t have furnaces... we have outside


2 posted on 11/26/2012 3:15:55 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Timber Rattler

Greenhouse gas production - pure BS. Millions and billions spent on nonsense.


3 posted on 11/26/2012 3:16:41 PM PST by Williams (No Obama)
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To: Timber Rattler

My last gas furnace was installed over twenty years ago and vented directly outside. I don’t remember that running twenty feet of three inch plastic pipe cost all that much.


4 posted on 11/26/2012 3:17:05 PM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: GeronL
Did you see this part of the article?

Similar improvements in energy efficiency are set to go into effect for heat pumps and air conditioning systems in Southern states.

5 posted on 11/26/2012 3:18:03 PM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Timber Rattler

Cool venting gas furnaces are more efficient, and I have neighbors who have them just because they want to. I don’t know why the cool vent can’t also be sent to a chimney or to a roof top vent for convenience sake. The vent is a curiosity because it hisses most of the time.


6 posted on 11/26/2012 3:19:18 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Timber Rattler

NNNNNNNNNNnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


7 posted on 11/26/2012 3:19:17 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL
LOL! Ain't that the truth. Summer 2011 looked like my back yard and garden had been nuked.

Fortunately, the local code inspector is half blind and likes cheap tequila, so using the old Soviet method of coping, I pretty much do what I like here. Bootlegged a pig and called it a dog until it was big enough to slaughter. ;)

/johnny

8 posted on 11/26/2012 3:19:47 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Timber Rattler

Gotta get those solyndra dollars back through kick backs


9 posted on 11/26/2012 3:20:18 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: GeronL

Whistling past the graveyard is not the best policy. They will get around to you eventually if they haven’t already.


10 posted on 11/26/2012 3:20:27 PM PST by Past Your Eyes (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.)
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To: Timber Rattler
Might as well just hand your entire wallet over now and get it over with, along with your bank account and safe deposit box.

Stupid people in this country vote for this sh#t. Makes me want to puke.

11 posted on 11/26/2012 3:20:40 PM PST by Marathoner (Our forefathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

lol


12 posted on 11/26/2012 3:20:40 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Past Your Eyes
Best to study Soviet history, and use their experience to guide us through the next few years.

/johnny

13 posted on 11/26/2012 3:22:26 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Timber Rattler

I don’t think the Federal government has any business getting involved in such mandates. But I suspect that these higher efficiency furnaces will save most users quite a bit of money.


14 posted on 11/26/2012 3:23:48 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Timber Rattler
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
15 posted on 11/26/2012 3:24:49 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Past Your Eyes

When I was a kid we didn’t have air conditioning in the drafty wooden house we lived in. This was about 1980. We did have a water cooler in the living room window that we used sparingly- and it certainly wouldn’t cool the whole house.

The enclosed back porch with screens for windows and a leaky roof was often mine and my brothers room.

Today, it’d be called child abuse. lol


16 posted on 11/26/2012 3:25:05 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: JRandomFreeper

I am just hoping we collapse sooner rather than later so we can get it over with already.


17 posted on 11/26/2012 3:26:15 PM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Timber Rattler
We have a delightful device called a ventless Natural Gas space heater.
best money we spent on the house (East Tenn.)

vents, we don't need no stinking vents


18 posted on 11/26/2012 3:26:24 PM PST by HangnJudge
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To: Timber Rattler

And where in the Constitution does Congress have the power to develop regional standards for central heating and cooling equipment?


19 posted on 11/26/2012 3:27:16 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Cicero

Not sure about the cost savings for some folks. They have more (expensive) parts to fail, and nat gas is very cheap these days.


20 posted on 11/26/2012 3:27:56 PM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's economic policy: trickle up poverty)
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To: Timber Rattler
Might as well just hand your entire wallet over now and get it over with, along with your bank account and safe deposit box.

Yes, and I'm sure the media already has this headline set up as a template with a fill-in-the-blank where the word "furnace" appears. They'll be using it a lot.

21 posted on 11/26/2012 3:28:04 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: muir_redwoods

The problem comes when you have a rear level walkout with a finished basement. You would have to rip out your ceilings to run the pipe to the back or side of your house. The alternative is to have a constantly hissing pipe sticking out the front of your house right next to the front door. That’s my situation. I looked at getting one of the energy efficient furnaces about five years ago and decided against it immediately.


22 posted on 11/26/2012 3:28:30 PM PST by Parmenio
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To: Cicero

It’s minus 40 right now up here, we have 2 wood stoves in our cabin; toasty 75 degrees. Before installation, I was going through 2000 gallons of oil a year in my oil fired boiler. I’ll stay with the birch & spruce which I actually enjoy hauling in with the snowmachine when it’s up around zero.


23 posted on 11/26/2012 3:29:19 PM PST by Eska
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To: HiTech RedNeck

The flue gas emitted is slightly acidic and lower temperature than 80% furnaces. In a conventional chimney that is not hot enough to produce a “natural draft”, warm air rises, so corrosion of the chimney is a problem. They also produce condensation, which needs to drain or be pumped off. Now, PVC straight up through the roof? Possibly, all the manufacturers have their venting guidelines.


24 posted on 11/26/2012 3:31:00 PM PST by jughandle
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To: Timber Rattler

Maybe we could just go back to burning corn in a space-heater, much like was used during the Depression. Back then, the price of corn was so low that country folks burned the corn rather than using wood harvested from the woodlot, as it was easier to make ready for the stove, and had much higher heat content per pound of fuel consumed.

Newer more modern forms of corn-burning stoves are competitive with natural gas in heating costs, they have thermostat controls, and the exhaust is as simple as a dryer vent to an external wall. They depend on a fan to circulate heat produced by convection, and are stoked by an electrically-driven auger. The ashes are a small clinker that may be broken up and allowed to compost.


25 posted on 11/26/2012 3:31:22 PM PST by alloysteel (Bronco Bama - the cowboy who whooped up and widened the stampede.)
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To: Timber Rattler

Natural gas: low demand, high supply= low price now.

That could change one day.


26 posted on 11/26/2012 3:32:44 PM PST by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: muir_redwoods
My last gas furnace was installed over twenty years ago and vented directly outside. I don’t remember that running twenty feet of three inch plastic pipe cost all that much.

I'll admit, that part of the article made me scratch my head. I've never seen a gas furnace vented through a chimney - all of mine had separate vent stacks. Maybe this reference is an upper east coast sort of thing dealing with older houses.

27 posted on 11/26/2012 3:33:36 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: Eska

I heat the house here in Vermont with a wood stove at one end, and a wood pellet fireplace insert in the other. It saves me quite a bit, and the wood stove at least uses wood mostly from our own woods. As for the pellets, I’d rather pay Canadian lumbermen than Arabs.

My son-in-law built a house nearby. He heats it with a wood stove, but he uses a propane heater for the hot water. It has one of those outside vents, and uses very little fuel.


28 posted on 11/26/2012 3:35:52 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: HangnJudge

I hope your house isn’t very airtight.


29 posted on 11/26/2012 3:36:32 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Charles Martel

Well, I live in Connecticut, that’s pretty far up the east coast. Maybe I’m missing something


30 posted on 11/26/2012 3:38:13 PM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: GeronL

HA! Same for south Florida.

But we should be aware for the up and coming new air conditioning guidelines that we know are ahead.


31 posted on 11/26/2012 3:38:31 PM PST by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to the tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: Charles Martel

The northeast seems to still be heavily dependent upon oil furnaces for some odd reason. Here, nearly all the houses old enough to have had an oil furnace have had the tank removed, soil remediated and the system replaced with natural gas. It’s a major detriment, trying to sell a house with oil heat, especially if the tank is underground. Potential hidden surprises if it leaked, and most do eventually.


32 posted on 11/26/2012 3:38:49 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: GeronL

My only saving moment here, was I just replaced the whole kit-n-kaboodle about 20 days ago. It was sticker shock for sure, but better now than later! Of course it was orginal to the house so that made it 25 years old. :-)


33 posted on 11/26/2012 3:38:49 PM PST by RikaStrom ("To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." ~Voltaire)
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To: mrsmith

If Baraq can kill fracking with his EPA, you may be right.


34 posted on 11/26/2012 3:39:26 PM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's economic policy: trickle up poverty)
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To: Eska

:That sounds great. A friendly wife, a good dog, a guitar and some good bourbon would make that a perfect existence for me


35 posted on 11/26/2012 3:49:24 PM PST by KevinB (A country that would elect Barack Obama president twice is no longer worth fighting for.)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
I hope your house isn’t very airtight.

Nope, not particularly

36 posted on 11/26/2012 3:57:47 PM PST by HangnJudge
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To: Timber Rattler

This is cool, now I have another entrepreneurial opportunity:

Used furnace black market. Sell and install good used furnaces for fun and profit without telling Big Brother.

Just like DeNiro in the movie Brazil, I will skulk around at night, tune old furnaces or install bootleg furnaces in defiance of “The ONE.”

The older fuel oil fired furnaces are especially easy. Face lift the fire box with a wet pack, put a new nozzle on the atomizer, and that suka will last another 30 years or more!

Gas furnace old? Change out the manifold, check the electrics and you are good to go too.

Thanks for the biz opportunity barry boy.


37 posted on 11/26/2012 3:57:52 PM PST by ConradofMontferrat
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To: Timber Rattler

In all fairness, low efficiency heaters and a/c need to be phased out, replaced with a much more cost effective technology, called thin sheet aerogel.

Aerogel is amazing stuff, first invented in 1931. Until just the last few years it was the lightest known solid material. Unfortunately, it was both very expensive and brittle. But why does it matter?

Because aerogel is a ridiculously efficient heat insulator, for both cold and heat. If you lined a sleeping bag with a 3mm layer of aerogel, you could sleep out in the open during a blizzard in the Arctic, at least until you couldn’t stand the sauna like heat inside your sleeping bag any more.

But for years it was just an oddity, because, as I said, it was both expensive and brittle. Until about a decade ago, when somebody created far less expensive, flexible, thin sheet aerogel.

They are now putting thin sheet aerogel into mass production. NASA wants to use it to insulate space probes from the cold of space. Otherwise the potential demand is huge.

If you insulated your oven or refrigerator with it, it would use far less energy. If you insulated your house with it, you could probably heat your house with an illegal 100W bulb and body heat, in the dead of winter. In the desert southwest in summer, you could air condition your entire house with window air conditioner.

For now, thin sheet aerogel is still expensive, but things change. And if you can save hundreds or thousands of dollars every year from heating and cooling, why not?


38 posted on 11/26/2012 3:58:47 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: muir_redwoods
I don’t remember that running twenty feet of three inch plastic pipe cost all that much.

You're forgetting one important fact!


39 posted on 11/26/2012 4:03:05 PM PST by WVKayaker ("Mitt Romney couldn't keep up with lies and spin of Barack Obama" - Sarah Palin 10/24)
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To: Cicero
I don’t think the Federal government has any business getting involved in such mandates. But I suspect that these higher efficiency furnaces will save most users quite a bit of money.

I agree with you on the role of government but question the savings when you consider the "front loading" cost of the equipment and installation.

I would love to have one of those "demand" water heaters, either electric or gas and I suppose if I wait the government will "demand" that I install one. The problem is I have a private well and the pressure varies as the deep well pump cycles on and off. That means that the flow varies and the water temperature goes all over the map as the controller can't keep up with the fluctuations. I'm sure the bureaucrats won't care and tell me to go on "city water" which is miles away from my house...

Being a hydraulics educated engineer, I scoped out a way to get constant pressure but the required changes to my plumbing would probably cost more then I would ever save with the demand heater. Sigh... Maybe I can buy an old water tower from a bankrupt town.

Regards,
GtG

40 posted on 11/26/2012 4:04:11 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: Timber Rattler

Elections have consequences


41 posted on 11/26/2012 4:05:23 PM PST by NonValueAdded (Happy 10th FR birthday to meeeeeeeeee)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray; Cicero
but question the savings when you consider the "front loading" cost of the equipment

I love the folk that get rid of a perfectly good car or truck and take on a $4-600/month payment in order to save 10mpg. Yet, they only drive 8-10k miles a year. Even with $4/gallon gas, the payback would be 25 years!


42 posted on 11/26/2012 4:09:17 PM PST by WVKayaker ("Mitt Romney couldn't keep up with lies and spin of Barack Obama" - Sarah Palin 10/24)
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To: JRandomFreeper
Best to study Soviet history, and use their experience to guide us through the next few years.

Invest in casket makers.

43 posted on 11/26/2012 4:12:40 PM PST by Starstruck
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To: Charles Martel

My gas water heater vents through the chimney and my old furnace used to. My basement’s unfinished so the PVC vent pipe isn’t an issue.


44 posted on 11/26/2012 4:15:33 PM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: Starstruck
Soviets were more into mass graves.

It's amazing what you can do with politiburo aparatchiks with either a little bribe or a healthy threat and intimidation.

If they wanna play that game, thinking it's a new game? I've got the fix for their zampolit.

/johnny

45 posted on 11/26/2012 4:20:23 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Regardless of new technology.. who are you to say when someone has to replace their furnace?


46 posted on 11/26/2012 4:24:30 PM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: ConradofMontferrat

Please Please tell me your live in Maine or NH?


47 posted on 11/26/2012 4:24:44 PM PST by New Perspective (Proud father of a 8 yr old son with Down Syndrome and fighting to keep him off Obama's death panels.)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray

install one of these or a device like it.

http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/108-603-well-pump-parts/3-4-water-pressure-regulator—636483.aspx

our house has one. My shower use to have a heart beat. Now it’s steady and the demand water heater works just fine. Although I am rather sure it has a flow meter and can adjust on the fly to different flow rates.


48 posted on 11/26/2012 4:29:03 PM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: Timber Rattler

I don’t know about the efficiency of a gas furnace, but I do know of two separate family members who got CO2 poisoning because of faulty furnaces. Both suffered severe brain damage as a result.

My daughter has a gas furnace vented directly into her chimney. There is only about two feet distance between them. To vent hers through a wall would require about fifteen feet of horizontal run and I would not trust it.

I have vent free heaters in my bedrooms and keep a window open slightly to provide air.

In my den I installed a ventless fireplace and I immediately began to have problems with fumes in the den. After a couple of years, I pulled out the burner and found that the air inlet to the mixing chamber was only two drilled 1/4 inch holes. I then drilled a third hole and have had no problems since.

What makes me wonder about the fireplace is that I purchased it FROM MY GAS COMPANY! They should have known better!


49 posted on 11/26/2012 4:29:10 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (The parasites now outnumber the producers.)
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To: ConradofMontferrat

You can repair old furnaces you just can’t legally install them after their deadline.


50 posted on 11/26/2012 4:35:12 PM PST by Sawdring
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