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Homeowner pulls gun on neighbor he caught stealing metal, Volusia deputies say(FL)
sun-sentinel.com ^ | 26 November, 2012 | Susan Jacobson

Posted on 11/27/2012 7:52:40 AM PST by marktwain

Edited on 11/27/2012 7:55:12 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

A Volusia County homeowner held his neighbor at gunpoint Monday after catching him stealing metal from his house, a 911 tape released shows.

"I don't plan on shooting him, but if he does something stupid, what else am I supposed to do?" Benton Ledbetter, 59, asked a Sheriff's Office dispatcher.


(Excerpt) Read more at sun-sentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; defense; fl; home
I looked down on theives in Panama when they stole copper lines to sell for scrap. I wondered how they could maintain a civilization with people who would do that. Now it is becoming common in the USA for theives to do tremendous damage for a few dollars gain, or no gain at all.
1 posted on 11/27/2012 7:52:45 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

You know the economy is really bad.......

How bad izzit?......

It’s so bad, middle-aged white guys are robbing convenience stores.........


2 posted on 11/27/2012 8:00:34 AM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: marktwain

bttt


3 posted on 11/27/2012 8:00:37 AM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: marktwain

What was he instructed to do? If the guy just got up and walked out, would he have been right in shooting him?


4 posted on 11/27/2012 8:03:40 AM PST by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: marktwain
Desperate people do desperate things.

The moral answer is found in answering the question as to why people are desperate. What brought some Ameicans to desperation?

Victor Hugo covered the situation well in "Les Miserables" where Jean ValJean was caught stealing bread to feed close relatives.

Today's villains are anti-capitalist organizations and politicians.

I see answers in Tea Party thinking.

5 posted on 11/27/2012 8:20:32 AM PST by OldNavyVet
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To: OldNavyVet

Don’t forget the silverware ValJean also stole.


6 posted on 11/27/2012 8:47:17 AM PST by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: stuartcr
If the guy just got up and walked out, would he have been right in shooting him?

No. And that's why he never should have drawn on the thief.

Not every crime deserves the death penalty.

He should have tackled, detained, photographed, etc. the guy. Lethal force wasn't warranted, based on the information given.

7 posted on 11/27/2012 8:51:39 AM PST by TChris ("Hello", the politician lied.)
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To: TChris

That’s what I was thinking.


8 posted on 11/27/2012 8:54:46 AM PST by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: stuartcr
If the guy just got up and walked out, would he have been right in shooting him?

Of course, there would be no justification for shooting someone if they presented no hostile action toward another, even if that person were caught in some crime. In other words, the punishment (possible serious injury or death) would not fit the crime.

The challenge however, is negotiating through the circumstances of the situation. In the example, the homeowner is rightfully armed, and in proper defense of his property. The homeowner has a weapon engaged, and is probably somewhat nervous. The homeowner has subdued a criminal, and might not know if the criminal is armed or how large a danger the criminal may possess. The criminal may estimate that the homeowner will NOT shoot if they just walk away, but the homeowner may treat any movement as a hostile one, and not just as a bluff.

And there's the rub. Shooting someone in the back for running away from a non-violent crime is not justified. The situation is very fluid, however, it would be very easy to understand if the homeowner mistook any act as hostile.

9 posted on 11/27/2012 9:01:57 AM PST by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: TChris
Lethal force wasn't warranted, based on the information given.

And if I read the article correctly, lethal force wasn't used. The threat of lethal force was used to detain this chump long enough for the police to arrive. Had he shot this miscreant, it would not have been privileged.

10 posted on 11/27/2012 9:03:21 AM PST by Wally_Kalbacken
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To: Wally_Kalbacken
And if I read the article correctly, lethal force wasn't used. The threat of lethal force was used to detain this chump long enough for the police to arrive. Had he shot this miscreant, it would not have been privileged.

And that's why he should never have drawn.

If nobody needs to be killed, don't bring out the gun. Things happen in the heat of an event, and if someone gets shot, it's gonna be your neck in the noose.

That's always been my rule: Don't draw until someone needs to die.

11 posted on 11/27/2012 9:10:15 AM PST by TChris ("Hello", the politician lied.)
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To: marktwain

Hell, it’s been happening for over 24 years. I worked part time Security for a Mental Retardation Center (Part-Time) and we had reports from the ‘residents’ that the guys taking the siding down from the back of the residences were keeping them awake at 1 AM to 4AM. Nobody listened until I chased an intruder into the fence at the back of the residences. I saw the back of the houses were stripped of aluminum siding. At he same time, I was head of Safety and security for a state hospital that was closing down. They stole every wire, brass lock, stainless steel sink and copper gutter from the place while we were still there! I figured the guards were all part and parcel of this. I was partially right. I (and some of my guards) apprehended 15 employees. The union (AFSCME) got them off. (This was in Philadelphia). After the place was actually abandoned, I heard that officials found out out that the main transformer to the place was also the main feed to the neighborhood. When they went to redirect the main transformer, they found an ash sillouette and the soles of someones sneakers on top of the transformer.


12 posted on 11/27/2012 9:25:19 AM PST by Safetgiver ( Islam makes barbarism look genteel.)
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To: OldNavyVet; All
Victor Hugo covered the situation well in "Les Miserables" where Jean ValJean was caught stealing bread to feed close relatives.

Victor Hugo created a fictional myth that has been used by the left to formulate bad policy for over a hundred years.

No one in America is forced to steal to eat. Let me repeat that: No one in America is forced to steal to eat.

13 posted on 11/27/2012 9:45:46 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

When I was in Italy they would steal the power lines too - occasionally there would be news of someone who got fried by a high tension line.


14 posted on 11/27/2012 9:52:11 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: Lou L

If a thief enters a residence with a concealed weapon, turning away from the homeowner to retrieve the weapon without the homeowner seeing the weapon coming out is the scenario liberals purposely ignore and homeowners should remember when shooting the perp until they no longer wiggle.


15 posted on 11/27/2012 9:54:56 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN
turning away from the homeowner to retrieve the weapon without the homeowner seeing the weapon coming out is the scenario liberals purposely ignore

I certainly agree, and this illustrates my point. When someone is involved with a crime, even a "non-violent" one, an armed defender can't tell if the criminal is turning to run away, or turning to retrieve a weapon. The defender cannot tell if the thief is armed or not. If not, that thief is better off to lie there, face-down, motionless...until the police arrive. Any other action might justifiably provoke a response by the armed homeowner.

16 posted on 11/27/2012 10:15:17 AM PST by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: stuartcr; marktwain
I went to my well-worn copy of Les Miserables to find some quotes to give you and, in the process, remembered that Jean ValJean's theft of the silver was from a Monseigneur that dedicated himself to helping the poor and starving.

Given that, when the police hauled Jean ValJean back to the Monseigneur with the suspected "stolen" silverware, the Monseigneur (lying) said that he'd given the silver to Jean ValJean and told Jean that he'd forgotten ("Why didn't you take them along with your cutlery?") to take the silver candlesticks. (quote is from page 105)

That, was the moment that changed Jean ValJean's life; he consequently used his capital gain to build a capitalistic fortune, that he used (for the rest of his life) to help the poor.

If you naven't read it, might I suggest you do. It changed my life.

17 posted on 11/27/2012 11:43:29 AM PST by OldNavyVet
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To: OldNavyVet
I have read it. It is very well written. Unfortunately, all the redeeming qualities, including the redemption of Jean ValJean, are ignored by the left. The message and myth that is promulgated is: Crime is caused by poverty, and the criminals are not morally responsible for their acts, society is.

This is a completely wrong and destructive message. The messages that were taken from Les Miserables and incorporated into leftist mythology are evil.

18 posted on 11/27/2012 11:51:36 AM PST by marktwain
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To: OldNavyVet

Very good book. While it did have an impact, I can’t say it changed my life. There are a lot of Javerts in the world, I still cannot understand people like him.


19 posted on 11/27/2012 12:04:57 PM PST by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: marktwain
From further in the article ...

He grabbed a gun, walked back and saw Charles Price, 39, with two 5-gallon buckets full of copper wire and two aluminum tennis rackets, the report states.

Ledbetter held Price at gunpoint in Ledbetter's living room until deputies arrived. He said Price caused $10,000 worth of damage to the house when he ripped the wires from the interior walls, the report shows.

I seriously doubt that these buckets would hold more than 10 pounds and that makes the two buckets worth (max) $200 at recyclers. For this, this vandal and thief caused 50-fold damages, the typical barbarian bargain.

20 posted on 11/27/2012 12:16:48 PM PST by SES1066 (Government is NOT the reason for my existence but it is the road to our ruin!)
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To: SES1066

Your sentiments are right, but your ideas of density are off. 5 gallon buckets can hold so much scrap metal that you cannot lift them. They could easily hold 200 lbs each, but of course, the handles would come off if you tried to lift that much.


21 posted on 11/27/2012 12:32:26 PM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain
... 5 gallon buckets can hold so much scrap metal ...

Note: "5-gallon buckets full of copper wire"
This implies to me coils of either #1 or #2 copper wire, a comparatively light load. I'm guessing that the 'neighbor' is a low-life drug vandal out for a quick fix.

22 posted on 11/27/2012 1:16:11 PM PST by SES1066 (Government is NOT the reason for my existence but it is the road to our ruin!)
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To: TChris

If nobody needs to be killed, don’t bring out the gun.


Can I get an Amen!”?


23 posted on 11/27/2012 6:15:02 PM PST by S.O.S121.500 (That Queer Kenyan muzzy bastard is not my president. ENFORCE the Bill of Rights.)
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To: stuartcr
I can’t say it changed my life.

There are (approximately) hundreds of memorable lines in Les Miserables. One for instance, captured at random in just a few seconds, is: "Philosophy pursues evil with its honest search, and does not permit it to slip away into nothingness." ... page 1262

24 posted on 11/29/2012 12:49:14 PM PST by OldNavyVet
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