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More Democrats Willing to Go Over 'Fiscal Cliff'
newsmax ^ | 11/27/12 | j feller

Posted on 11/27/2012 8:10:26 AM PST by bestintxas

A growing number of Democrats say they are willing to let the country go off the fiscal cliff if a deal cannot be reached by Jan. 1 that raises taxes on the top two percent of earners while protecting costly entitlement programs.

Their theory in this game of chicken with Republicans is that it will be easier in January to lower taxes for 98 percent of the country while finding the best possible parts of the federal budget to cut — in line with long-held goals of the nation's liberal party. They also think they'll be in a better position to save most, if not all, of massive entitlements like Medicare as well as pet projects.

The fiscal cliff, originally created to force a legislatively-appointed supercommittee to make significant cuts to the federal budget, is roughly $500 billion mix of budget cuts and tax increases.

It includes the expiration of the Bush-era tax cuts and Obama-era payroll tax cut, massive cuts to the military and jobless benefits, and a decrease in Medicare reimbursement rates.

This will send tax on bond interest to 44.6 percent from 35 percent; on capital gains to 25 percent from 15 percent and on dividends to 44.6 percent from 15 percent, Forbes magazine pointed out Monday.

The average family will pay an extra $2,000 to $3,000 in income taxes if Congress fails to reach an agreement before the Bush tax cuts expire on Jan. 1, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

The economy would shrink by 0.5 percent, the CBO has found.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2012; congress; democrats; economy; fiscalcliff; liberalfascism; obama; postkeywords; socialism; socialistdemocrats; taxes
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Everyone knows about the frog in a pot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svpsLZDgFK4

We are the frogs and it is better to get it over with quickly rather than prolonged degeneration to a low standard of living.

As we move to a socialist society, the best and brightest will be moving out of our country, which will be populated with a bunch of Americans scratching their way for subsidence, with their hands stretched out to a group of elites who will choose which ones to feed with scraps.

I wish no part of that. Let's be done with it. Perhaps this will serve as a big enough shock to wake up the fools who voted for socialism.

1 posted on 11/27/2012 8:10:31 AM PST by bestintxas
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To: bestintxas

Let them own it !


2 posted on 11/27/2012 8:13:08 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: bestintxas

They need to be out of office completely That includes any form of government especially lobbying.


3 posted on 11/27/2012 8:13:40 AM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Jeb’s fault!


4 posted on 11/27/2012 8:14:10 AM PST by John 3_19-21 (Stand for something or fall for anything.)
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To: bestintxas

“As we move to a socialist society, the best and brightest will be moving out of our country...”

Where would they go?


5 posted on 11/27/2012 8:14:47 AM PST by DonaldC (A nation cannot stand in the absence of religious principle.)
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To: bestintxas
A growing number of Democrats say they are willing to let the country go off the fiscal cliff"""""""".........

GOOD.........no delays. One reason is I want every DAMNED DEMOCRAT, government moochers and those that would not vote Romney because........., to feel the PAIN they inflicted on us. Bring it on.

After that, the sun will come up tomorrow, plant some seeds.

6 posted on 11/27/2012 8:17:01 AM PST by annieokie
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To: bestintxas
I agree

I think it's time to just say,

"Y'know democrats ... we're not playin' anymore. HERE .. you can HAVE your ball ... we're goin' home"

7 posted on 11/27/2012 8:17:10 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: bestintxas
As I understand it, the taxes Obama wants to raise will only bring in something like 83 billion dollars.

If that's all it takes to solve this crisis, that doesn't sound much like a cliff. It's more like a curb.

But then, does anybody truly believe raising taxes will result in balanced budgets?

8 posted on 11/27/2012 8:18:14 AM PST by Texas Eagle (1)
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To: bestintxas

Pay now or later. I say now, and let the leftists own it.


9 posted on 11/27/2012 8:23:21 AM PST by BlueStateRightist (Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.)
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To: bestintxas

ABSTAIN!


10 posted on 11/27/2012 8:25:25 AM PST by mmichaels1970
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To: Texas Eagle

The coming cliff is an excuse to raise taxes.
There’s no avoiding the cliff, though, short of massive “austerity”,
which most 0bama voters wouldn’t understand and would just riot over.

After all, the whole point of voting for 0bama was the free stuff.


11 posted on 11/27/2012 8:26:16 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: bestintxas

GOP will be blamed, regardless. Let the frog feel the heat.


12 posted on 11/27/2012 8:26:16 AM PST by rhombus
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To: rhombus

Speaking of frogs, here’s a LOL frog video on youtube - 27 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzXM58qR1Es


13 posted on 11/27/2012 8:28:03 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: bestintxas; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; ...
Dems logic on this is that after most of the taxes are reset to Clinton rates, minus the Obama-care tax increases, that they can put Republicans on the spot with ‘tax cuts for the middle class’ and if they block it as in 2010 (different congress) then they will have proved what they accused Republicans of the past two years, ,’hurting the middle class to protect the rich’

This is a rather obvious trap.

The difference between this and 2 years ago is back then was O was not willing to let all those taxes go up with a Dem controlled House and Senate and a re-election coming up. So Obama caved exactly as I predicted he would. In fact I think he wanted them all extended at the time,.

Worse yet only the 'spending cuts' Republicans are whining about the automatic spending cuts being bad, the Dems dont seem to care less about them I guess because in that 2011 'bi-partision deal they appear to have protected their own Golden Calves, unlike the idiot Republicans who look stupid on it.

(Congressional) Republicans need to fight like Dems, to use their brains for a change.

14 posted on 11/27/2012 8:28:24 AM PST by sickoflibs (Has Bohner caved to Obama again yet?)
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To: bestintxas
A number of Republicans should be willing to also:

“We will not raise taxes on the top 2% of earners to fix only 8% of the deficit- without serious entitlement reform. We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

We received no spending reform - of any type- from the President or the Democrats, so we have no choice but to let the law of the land, which Obama signed, be carried out.”

And when the bigger issue, the debt ceiling comes up, pass no law to increase it without spending reform. What the hell, time to play for real. If we lose, we lose; we're all losing anyways.

15 posted on 11/27/2012 8:28:38 AM PST by dan on the right
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

well the Dems invented the Fiscal Cliff so they could have a very laugh at the GOP running around like chickens with their heads cut off


16 posted on 11/27/2012 8:29:19 AM PST by molson209
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To: annieokie
Frankly I don't give a damn. Our four years of No-Inflation, Inflation has me on the ropes. I can become a basket case just like everyone else that worked for a living.
17 posted on 11/27/2012 8:33:36 AM PST by ANGGAPO (Layte Gulf Beach Club)
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To: DonaldC
Where would they go?

In the past, many found happiness in Brazil. People do have choices.

18 posted on 11/27/2012 8:34:56 AM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: bestintxas

actually Bush’s tax cuts are the reason 47% of Americans don’t pay taxes.

Going over the cliff will make the system more fair again.

I guess it’s a countdown until Boehner caves in any case though.


19 posted on 11/27/2012 8:44:04 AM PST by MNDude
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To: Tau Food

Pisses me off. I’ve been working on a masters degree these past three years. Now, will graduate this spring and maybe earn a better salary, only to see it all taxed even more in the coming years as hubby and my earnings go over that arbitrary amount where they consider us “rich.” We’ve been married over 25 years and have saved, worked, invested, sacrificed, put our kids and ourselves through school. This was supposed to be the time we were going to enjoy some reward for all this hard work over the years.

But they’re going to take it from us and we can’t pay off our debts. Why try? Why work this hard?? They won’t LET you get ahead ...

This country is no longer the America we used to know.


20 posted on 11/27/2012 8:45:47 AM PST by LibsRJerks
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To: Tau Food

Where would they go?
In the past, many found happiness in Brazil. People do have choices.

Agreed - lots of choices. The Socialist we have as President is much less so in a number of countries. Look at the way the best and brightest are leaving California in droves.


21 posted on 11/27/2012 8:46:56 AM PST by bestintxas (Anyone who votes for Obama after these 4 miserable years needs to take a mandatory citizenship test.)
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To: DonaldC

Asia. It may not be apparent to all here, but various countries there do highly value well educated people in a few fields who can also speak their language fluently.
For this reason, my minor children are learning Mandarin Chinese & Japanese. There are well compensated fields for such.


22 posted on 11/27/2012 8:47:22 AM PST by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: LibsRJerks

Pisses me off. I’ve been working on a masters degree these past three years. Now, will graduate this spring and maybe earn a better salary, only to see it all taxed even more in the coming years as hubby and my earnings go over that arbitrary amount where they consider us “rich.” We’ve been married over 25 years and have saved, worked, invested, sacrificed, put our kids and ourselves through school. This was supposed to be the time we were going to enjoy some reward for all this hard work over the years.

But they’re going to take it from us and we can’t pay off our debts. Why try? Why work this hard?? They won’t LET you get ahead ...

This country is no longer the America we used to know.


Hard work, individuality, freedom are not longer to be aspired to, or achieved.

Food stamps, govt assistance, free phones..... Those are success SARC.....

Our forefathers may have ceeded back to England if they saw what we have become.


23 posted on 11/27/2012 8:48:03 AM PST by patriotspride
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To: annieokie
A growing number of Democrats say they are willing to let the country go off the fiscal cliff . . . to feel the PAIN they inflicted on us.

There is no fiscal cliff for the Dims. As usual, the Republicans were completely outmaneuvered. The 'price' for the Republicans is draconian cuts in defense spending (50% of the total cuts though DoD only consumes 16% of the budget), yet the 'price' to the Dims is reductions in payments to doctors and hospitals!

There is not one dime in cuts in benefits to moochers, and no reduction in the requirement to treat patients. There are just more bills that don't get paid - and the unpaid people are workers, not Dim constituents.

So, here is what happens if they do nothing (what is called, the 'fiscal cliff'). Taxes go up on everyone who actually pays taxes, defense spending is gutted, and doctors/hospitals raise prices on the responsible to cover the nonpayment of bills by the government-subidized.

Where's the downside for the Dims? Where is there pain?
24 posted on 11/27/2012 8:48:46 AM PST by Phlyer
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To: LibsRJerks

The Democrat motto is,”Aim for mediocrity, it’s only fair.”

Fair has a double meaning when the motto is related to the public school system. A “C” grade is described as “fair”.


25 posted on 11/27/2012 8:49:04 AM PST by Eva
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To: bestintxas

None of that includes the extra taxes that are embedded in the Obamacare law.


26 posted on 11/27/2012 8:51:46 AM PST by Eva
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To: bestintxas

The Democrats have had a pretty good game plan for years. Every time they get into trouble, they would go to THE BIG THREE to throw the Republicans off their game.
1. Homosexual benefits
2. Gun control
3. Raise taxes on the wealthy.
Well, they’ve basically received everything they wanted for the homosexuals, so that just leaves them 2 and 3. We understand that wealthy people create jobs. We know it’s not a good idea to tax them into poverty. But, the ultra rich have been sitting on the sidelines for years. They throw a party for Obama and hope the Democrats really aren’t socialists who would confiscate all their wealth. Let’s motivate them to get into the game. Steven Speilberg is getting hundreds of millions of dollars before the new year? That’s money that could be helping California! Him and Obama can sit and eat caviar and drink champagne while the students in California worry about having to pay tuition. Take Speilberg’s money! He didn’t make those movies! We did!
And we need to go on the offense. The Democrat leaders are scared to death that there will be too many people in this world. Start talking about doing away with abortion. That one hits them right in their cold little hearts.


27 posted on 11/27/2012 8:51:52 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: DonaldC

“How is that people who have been crushed by the sheer weight of slavery and cast to the bottom of the pit can nevertheless find the strength to rise up and free themselves, first in spirit and then in body; while those who soar unhampered over the peaks of freedom suddenly lose the taste for freedom, lose the will to defend it, and, hopelessly confused and lost, almost begin to crave slavery”. Alexander Solzhenitsyn.


28 posted on 11/27/2012 8:52:02 AM PST by Busko (The only thing that is certain is that nothing is certain.)
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To: annieokie

A growing number of Democrats say they are willing to let the country go off the fiscal cliff””””””””.........
GOOD.........no delays. One reason is I want every DAMNED DEMOCRAT, government moochers and those that would not vote Romney because........., to feel the PAIN they inflicted on us. Bring it on.

After that, the sun will come up tomorrow, plant some seeds.


Planted ours right after O care passed, as we saw the potential coming after
spending all of our youth, mid years, preparing for retirement.

We are with you.... “ unleash the dogs of Hell” and let them own the consequences. The foolish O voters need to see that not paying attention
has real personal impact.


29 posted on 11/27/2012 8:55:29 AM PST by patriotspride
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To: dan on the right

We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.


And define what you mean by spending. Don’t use the past years inflated
budgets, or proposed increases to look like you cut something.

If you spent $10 5 years ago, and that was balanced , then use that...

Dont use the $15 from last year, show how it would go to $17 and then agree
on $16....

Thats O “ smoke and mirrors” and not cutting anything.


30 posted on 11/27/2012 8:59:26 AM PST by patriotspride
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To: bestintxas

The problem is, they WONT own it.

If there is anything this election has taught us, it is the power of a corrupt and subservient (to socialists) MSM to elect substandard and selfish candidates to positions of immense power. This lesson is not lost on the socialists, who know when fiscal disaster comes the MSM will make sure the blame falls on those who HAVE been responsible with money, instead of the 47% with their grasping hands out.

Make no mistake, the GOP will be blamed for the catastrophe the Obamabots are creating.


31 posted on 11/27/2012 9:01:24 AM PST by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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To: I still care

“Make no mistake, the GOP will be blamed for the catastrophe the Obamabots are creating.”

Which means that face should not have any effect on how Republicans play this game.

Take the cliff. Give the Dems everything they want.

Let. It. Burn.


32 posted on 11/27/2012 9:06:54 AM PST by SaxxonWoods (....Let It Burn....)
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To: sickoflibs

The House Republicans are going to get blamed 24/7 by the democrat propaganda organs in the media no matter what they do. So they might as well do the right thing; let’s just go all “Thelma & Louise” over the cliff together.


33 posted on 11/27/2012 9:19:48 AM PST by henkster ("The people who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin)
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To: Phlyer
Where's the downside for the Dims? Where is there pain?"""""....

Take it off the CLIFF and let's find out.

34 posted on 11/27/2012 9:20:59 AM PST by annieokie
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To: bestintxas

We need immediate entitlement reform. There should be no discussion until the Dems put their ideas on the table. We can’t keep paying the political price for this (not to mention the fiscal price).

The longer this issue hangs out there, the more ammo the Dems will have against Republicans.


35 posted on 11/27/2012 9:25:58 AM PST by Qbert ("The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry" - William F. Buckley, Jr.)
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To: patriotspride
We are with you.... “ unleash the dogs of Hell”""""......

Good, I am more than ready, I know how to survive.

I want every Democrat, 3rd party voter or those that refused to vote Romney because........., to reap the HELL they have given us non deserving.

Short of anything other than a Revolution, nothing is going to stop Washington. Can we wait for another election?

36 posted on 11/27/2012 9:27:56 AM PST by annieokie
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To: henkster
RE :”The House Republicans are going to get blamed 24/7 by the democrat propaganda organs in the media no matter what they do. So they might as well do the right thing; let’s just go all “Thelma & Louise” over the cliff together.”

That is the kind of thinking that got us this election day.
Surrender!
I assume what you mean by ‘the right thing’ is what you want them to do.

37 posted on 11/27/2012 9:32:32 AM PST by sickoflibs (Has Bohner caved to Obama again yet?)
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To: bestintxas

Asking Democrats to fix overspending is like asking the Nazis to fix race based hate crimes.


38 posted on 11/27/2012 9:38:21 AM PST by Tzimisce (What do you do when every every branch of the government is corrupt and aligned against you?)
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To: sickoflibs

The “right thing” is don’t increase taxes, sponsor legislation that addresses spending, have the democrats reject it and we get the consequences in January. If that’s surrendering, then so be it.

There is no “winning” on this issue in the current climate, because the democrats who control the Senate and the White House are not going to magically agree with us. They have absolutely no incentive to do.


39 posted on 11/27/2012 9:38:48 AM PST by henkster ("The people who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin)
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To: Tzimisce

Consider the alternative to the fiscal cliff. Congress will come up with new taxes, and phony spending cuts that only reduce the rates of increase. This sets us up for the BIG crash, which will make the fiscal cliff look like a walk in the park.


40 posted on 11/27/2012 9:44:39 AM PST by aimhigh
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To: annieokie
I want every Democrat, 3rd party voter or those that refused to vote Romney because........., to reap the HELL they have given us non deserving.

I hear you. I'm looking forward to the party that pushed Romney as a candidate to burn and go away.

/johnny

41 posted on 11/27/2012 9:48:58 AM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: DonaldC

We know people who have moved to Costa Rica and Uruguay.


42 posted on 11/27/2012 9:49:26 AM PST by sanjuanbob
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To: henkster; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; ...
RE :”The “right thing” is don’t increase taxes, sponsor legislation that addresses spending, have the democrats reject it and we get the consequences in January”

I am not sure where you get your bad information but the taxes go up automatically without a vote. However some Republicans (like Graham and McCain) apparently want to vote for higher taxes in exchange for canceling some of the automatic ones. They also want to repeal the automatic spending cuts, there-by increasing spending. Its Republicans calling for spending more here.

If you bothered to read my comment that you replied to it said specifically for Republicans to NOT vote for any tax increases and to let the $500B spending cuts got into effect without a vote .

I see you were sure that Romney would win :

I think the election was decided last Wednesday night. Romney cut through the media filter and directly sold himself to the American people. I don’t think there are that many undecideds left; the only thing the undecideds of today will decide is to decide to not vote.
It will be closer than it should be, but I’m confident Romney will win.
9 posted on Friday, October 12, 2012 11:02:29 AM by henkster

'Cut through the media filter'? Didnt you just tell me that it was impossible to do that? To just give up?

43 posted on 11/27/2012 10:00:47 AM PST by sickoflibs (Has Bohner caved to Obama again yet?)
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To: bestintxas

I see 3 primary possible outcomes

1. Pubs cut a deal - no cliff (likely); probably an extension more than a real deal
2. Pubs hold fast, go off cliff then cave later (possible)
3. Pubs hold fast, go off cliff and still hang tight. No deal (extremenly unlikely).

Pubs are in lose / lose and have been outmaneuvered and outvoted. They do not have votes to extend bush tax cuts for all via bill that obama ill sign. There is zero possibility of pubs holding fast in #3. No way Jose. We can shout it all we want. Pubs are like scalded cats that can’t be herded. #2 is only possible option and see what unfolds. Who knows? Maybe a miracle happens


44 posted on 11/27/2012 10:01:20 AM PST by plain talk
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

They have no problem owning it - it raises the heck out of taxes and causes some spending cuts that will cause some pain and they can rest assured that they can blame Republicans and get next to no push back.


45 posted on 11/27/2012 10:16:26 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: DonaldC

“Where would they go?”

Texas.


46 posted on 11/27/2012 10:17:04 AM PST by Adams (Fight on!)
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To: bestintxas

Good news. The GOP needs to get to work writing the epitaph for the American Constitutional Republic. They’re in the Alamo, and it’s time to make that last stand knowing that they will lose this battle, and even the current war, but with an eye toward communicating with future generations the meaning of the Republican ideal of America. Further sullying of the brand name in the interest of “not getting blamed” for the inevitable decline that is sure to come is stupid.


47 posted on 11/27/2012 10:26:14 AM PST by Behind the Blue Wall
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To: bestintxas

I see 3 primary possible outcomes

1. Pubs cut a deal - no cliff (likely); probably an extension more than a real deal
2. Pubs hold fast, go off cliff then cave later (possible)
3. Pubs hold fast, go off cliff and still hang tight. No deal (extremenly unlikely).

Pubs are in lose / lose and have been outmaneuvered and outvoted. They do not have votes to extend bush tax cuts for all via bill that obama ill sign. There is zero possibility of pubs holding fast in #3. No way Jose. We can shout it all we want. Pubs are like scalded cats that can’t be herded. #2 is only possible option and see what unfolds. Who knows? Maybe a miracle happens


48 posted on 11/27/2012 10:28:35 AM PST by plain talk
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To: henkster; plain talk
Actually it was here:

Racing to Beat the Clock on the Dividend Cliff (SOL plan on how to beat Dems at comment #3)

49 posted on 11/27/2012 10:41:32 AM PST by sickoflibs (Has Bohner caved to Obama again yet?)
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To: MNDude

“actually Bush’s tax cuts are the reason 47% of Americans don’t pay taxes.
Going over the cliff will make the system more fair again.”
I’m so glad there are smart conservatives. Don’t tell anyone.. but I think that is the plan. Get the number not paying income tax down to 40% again. The child tax credit will go from 1,000 to 500. That (plus higher rates) makes people earning 40-50,000 payors instead of payees. Maybe they will realize government does not create anything, they just take our money and give out the 80% not spent on overhead and highways to nowhere.


50 posted on 11/27/2012 10:43:58 AM PST by brookwood (. Bush's First Term 2 million jobs created! - using BLS Household Survey)
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