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Should Texas Allow Open-Carry for Handguns? [POLL]
kfyo.com ^ | 27 November, 2012 | Chad Hasty

Posted on 11/27/2012 6:42:24 PM PST by marktwain

In the upcoming legislative session in Texas, guns will be a point of discussion. Rep. George Lavender (R) will introduce a bill that would allow Texans who have a concealed handgun license the freedom to open-carry. According to the Dallas Morning News:

Lavender said he finds it ironic that freedom-loving Texas is one of just six states not to allow some form of open carry. The others are Illinois, New York, Arkansas, South Carolina and Florida. An open-carry law went into effect in Oklahoma on Nov. 1.

Lavender and other gun rights advocates argue that law-abiding citizens openly carrying pistols in public places pose a deterrent to criminals.

“This is Texas, and we should be the leader,” said Lavender, who was re-elected without opposition on Nov. 6. Support for his proposal, he said, “is very wide and deep. I think we are fixing to get there.”

Lavender unsuccessfully pushed an open-carry bill in the 2011 legislative session, but the measure never gained momentum. It failed to attract a Senate sponsor and died in committee.

“I think we have a new day this time,” he said.

Like his 2011 bill, the one he plans to introduce in the upcoming session would allow businesses and private property owners to post signs prohibiting firearms, he said. The current concealed-weapon law contains a similar provision.

Opponents said open carry has the potential to disturb the peace more than keep the peace.

Yesterday on KFYO, many listeners said they would like to freedom to chose, but would still carry their firearm concealed. What do you think about open-carry? If you have a CHL, what would you do? Let us know in today’s KFYO Poll of the Day.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: banglist; opencarry; poll; tx
So far, 97.5% are for open carry.
1 posted on 11/27/2012 6:42:33 PM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Open carry was originally banned by the carpetbagger government after the Civil war. They changed the Texas constitution to do it. Unfortunately, the new legislature, when they made the new constitution in 1876, lef in a clause allowing the legislature to regulate the carrying of arms in order to decrease crime, and the legislature, not wanting those uppity freed slaves to carry guns, banned open and concealed carry.


2 posted on 11/27/2012 6:45:43 PM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

I am all for open carry along with concealed carry.

The reason I support open carry has nothing to do with the fact that I probably would never openly carry a gun. The point is that the cops sometimes arrest someone for accidentally letting their concealed gun be exposed.


3 posted on 11/27/2012 6:47:21 PM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
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To: marktwain

Generally speaking, concealed carry is better, but there might be times you’d want to open carry. Plus it would keep you from getting in trouble for accidentally printing or exposing your sidearm.


4 posted on 11/27/2012 6:48:42 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: marktwain

While I think open carry should be a given, they would be better off implementing a no license concealed carry, such as Arizona, Vermont(of all states)and Alaska have. I believe those are the three states the do not require a permit to carry concealed. All 50 states should NOT require a permit to carry concealed or openly.


5 posted on 11/27/2012 6:58:04 PM PST by calex59
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To: yarddog

The only open carry problems we’ve seen in Michigan have been at the hands of overzealous police or police overreacting to panicky bed wetters who saw a gun.

There’s a learning curve.


6 posted on 11/27/2012 6:59:58 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: smokingfrog
Printing is one reason. But I would like to be able to get up in the morning, put on my pants, drop my pocketknife and real silver dollar in my pocket and strap on my firearm before putting on my fuzzy bunny slippers and going to make coffee.

And not worry about it for the rest of the day.

I'm fortunate that the local constabulary sorta expects to see me with a firearm, and are cool with that... but Texas needs this law.

If Dewhurst or Straus block it.... that will be more of a political problem for them than they already expect.

I so want rid of the squishy GOP-E in Texas.

/johnny

7 posted on 11/27/2012 7:00:12 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: marktwain

Criminals accross America prefer concealed carry.


8 posted on 11/27/2012 7:04:29 PM PST by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: marktwain
introduce a bill that would allow Texans who have a concealed handgun license the freedom to open-carry.

Pay to play? Is that the deal? What does the 2A say about the RKBA?

9 posted on 11/27/2012 7:06:25 PM PST by Sarajevo (Don't think for a minute that this excuse for a President has America's best interest in mind.)
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To: calex59

I agree with you, concealed (or open) carry should be encouraged by the law instead of being allowed.

Still when I lived in Georgia, it was so easy (and cheap) to get a license that I could live with it quite happily.

They basically have to issue you a license unless you are a serial killer or something like that. The law needed a few kinks worked out and I have read that they indeed have corrected most of those minor points.


10 posted on 11/27/2012 7:08:20 PM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
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To: marktwain

Don’t leave out Maryland, Getting a carry permit here is damned near impossible.

Unless you have a high ranking friend in the State Police.


11 posted on 11/27/2012 7:11:51 PM PST by Venturer
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To: yarddog

As far as I’m concerned, any man not in jail or prison should be free to carry a gun. If he’s too dangerous to carry, why the hell is he walking free.


12 posted on 11/27/2012 7:13:36 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
13 posted on 11/27/2012 7:14:45 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: yarddog
The reason I support open carry has nothing to do with the fact that I probably would never openly carry a gun. The point is that the cops sometimes arrest someone for accidentally letting their concealed gun be exposed

+1 from a Michigan CPL holder.

14 posted on 11/27/2012 7:23:46 PM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: cripplecreek
As far as I’m concerned, any man not in jail or prison should be free to carry a gun.

Amen, brother! If they can't be trusted with a firearm, keep 'em in jail or execute 'em.

/johnny

15 posted on 11/27/2012 7:27:59 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: marktwain

It seems to me that there is a need for gun etiquette, with some degree of formality.

That is, say you have CC or open carry, and you *want* to let one or more police know that you are armed, and that, based on the situation you want to temporarily disarm, but without frightening or agitating them.

Even under the old rules, it was both difficult and ritualized to take your gun from its holster, insure that it was safe, and hand it to someone else for inspection.

But such etiquette rules need a formal reintroduction, just so that everybody, citizens and LEOs, are on the “same sheet of music” again.


16 posted on 11/27/2012 7:28:25 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
LEOs are citizens. They forget that sometimes. They ain't special.

/johnny

17 posted on 11/27/2012 7:31:51 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: smokingfrog

>>Generally speaking, concealed carry is better, but there might be times you’d want to open carry. Plus it would keep you from getting in trouble for accidentally printing or exposing your sidearm.

This is the best reason for open carry. I wouldn’t want to do open carry in public, but I would like to see concealed carry laws changed to where you are only expected to cover the gun so that if the bottom of the holster is visible, the gun is still covered. Pancake holsters are soooooo much more comfortable than IWBs, especially when you get into middle age!


18 posted on 11/27/2012 7:39:07 PM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: JRandomFreeper
Hey, maybe you'll be able to get one of these.


19 posted on 11/27/2012 7:40:36 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: JRandomFreeper

I have some sympathy for LEOs here, as they have to deal with a lot of dangerous basket cases. That is why I am in pursuit of etiquette, with the hope of achieving the following:

1) “Hey, I’m a good guy, not a threat, or the threat you are currently looking for.”

2) “I am armed, but not hostile, so no big deal. Do not add me or my gun to your stress level.”

3) (for example) “I need to secure my gun in my lock box, which requires I unholster it, and hold it in my hand while checking it for safety. I do not want to upset you while doing this. Also, I intend to do this in a safe manner, to avoid the chance of an accidental discharge.”

There are lots of hypotheticals, here, but etiquette rules only work if everybody knows them.


20 posted on 11/27/2012 7:43:05 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: marktwain

Well, if’n we here in neighboring New Mexico, with all our liberals, can do it, why can’t Texas?


21 posted on 11/27/2012 7:44:34 PM PST by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmitt in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: smokingfrog
I've got a canvas shotgun bag strapped to the forks of my bicycle. ;)

It's good to have sewing skills. Cooks can do that.

/johnny

22 posted on 11/27/2012 7:46:53 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

There’s a local 20 something around here who looks like he just stepped out of a mad max movie (Mohawk, tattoos, piercings etc) and he’s big on open carry.

He says he’s been disarmed by police more times than he can count but strongly suggests the calm compliance method. He doesn’t like it but says its to be expected till they learn. He says local cops don’t even give him a second look anymore.


23 posted on 11/27/2012 7:51:16 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Having dealt with open carry in New Mexico... and a neighbor that was a State Trooper, it's an education thing for LEOs.

The State trooper neighbor borrowed my .38 over the fence one day because he knew I carried snake shot in it. He was an educated LEO.

Educate the LEO. Situational awareness would be a good start.

I don't announce that I've got a screwdriver, axe, hydraulic jack, or wrench. Why should I announce any other tool?

/johnny

24 posted on 11/27/2012 7:51:58 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: calex59

>>All 50 states should NOT require a permit to carry concealed or openly.

Amen. Our 2d Amendment rights should not be infringed upon by any state.

Plus, it should not require legal research to travel from one state to another with a weapon.


25 posted on 11/27/2012 8:08:02 PM PST by generally (Don't be stupid. We have politicians for that.)
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To: smokingfrog

Ruger Vaquero?


26 posted on 11/27/2012 8:13:36 PM PST by Rio (Tempis Fugit.)
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To: JRandomFreeper
If Dewhurst or Straus block it.... that will be more of a political problem for them than they already expect.

I so want rid of the squishy GOP-E in Texas.

Todd Hunter, the chairman of the Calendar committee, is all in favor of passing legislation to allow open carry for people who hold a CHL.

27 posted on 11/27/2012 8:25:22 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

“and you *want* to let one or more police know that you are armed, and that, based on the situation you want to temporarily disarm, but without frightening or agitating them”

Simple, politely inform them that you are carrying, and ask them what they would like you do with it. If they ask you to remove it, do it however they ask. And in some areas of the country, sometimes, they just thank you and tell you not to pull it out while he is with you.
If they have any modern training, and want to separate you from it, they will ask you where it is and inform you that they will remove it.
If you doubt someone enough to disarm them, it makes little sense to tell them to do anything that puts the gun in their hand.

But deciding how you’re going do it, and just informing them is a bad idea. There’s no reason it should be a power and control game. It should just be a way that tension can be reduced, so it matters little how it’s done.
Theres no reason for drama with a good decent cop who sees you as a person most likely to come to his assistance in a scrape, a fellow shooter he might encounter at the gun shop, etc.
And if the cop is rude or unprofessional, or seems poorly trained in the law, it even makes more sense not to agitate someone like that. You should just ensure you don’t get hurt by a guy like that, and then pursue legal remedies. That worked for that kid arrested for carrying his M-1 rifle openly a few months ago.
he did it just how they said, and won in court later.


28 posted on 11/27/2012 8:39:12 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

“(for example) “I need to secure my gun in my lock box, which requires I unholster it, and hold it in my hand while checking it for safety. I do not want to upset you while doing this. Also, I intend to do this in a safe manner, to avoid the chance of an accidental discharge.””

That kinda sounds like you intend to handle the gun and are just informing them, but that you are going to do it.
Always a bad idea to remove it from a holster if you arent asked. A VERY bad idea. Better just to ask. But i would very much avoid handling it without their explicit approval and instruction to do so.

Far better to just inform them that you are legally carrying, are no threat, and ask them what to do with it.
But clearing it, putting it a lockbox, etc, is too much fiddling with it if they don’t want you to. Especially if their intent was that it just remain holstered anyway.


29 posted on 11/27/2012 8:51:53 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: marktwain

No! people, the crime rate will skyrocket like it is here in AZ...oh, yeah...never mind.


30 posted on 11/27/2012 9:23:02 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian (I hope we're ready to get a real candidate next time. C'mon GOP! <BCC><)
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To: marktwain

I don’t like his qualification that an open carry person should be a CHL holder.

There are many of us Texans without CHLs that want to open carry. I’m old and would walk the neighborhood for needed exercise or feel more safe in other areas if I had the sidearm. Thugs don’t like attacking people that may be able to defend themselves.


31 posted on 11/27/2012 10:52:13 PM PST by octex
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To: DesertRhino
Always a bad idea to remove it from a holster if you arent asked. A VERY bad idea.

Year before last I watched a Sheriff's deputy trying to collar a large mean dog. He got the stick collar on him but the dog had a brother that was coming to the rescue. The deputy looked straight at me and asked, "Do you have a gun on you?!?" I said yes. He said,"Good! If he comes at me again, put him down, will you?" I told him that I surely would.

As soon as the other dog saw me draw my sidearm he fled underneath the nearest house. Guess the dog's instincts kicked in and he knew I was about to kill him. He didn't come back out. All the deputy said when he left was, "Thank you sir."

32 posted on 11/28/2012 12:25:06 AM PST by houeto (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: octex
I don’t like his qualification that an open carry person should be a CHL holder.

That makes two of us. No citizen in this country should have to have a license to be armed.

33 posted on 11/28/2012 12:41:18 AM PST by houeto (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: marktwain
Lavender said he finds it ironic that freedom-loving Texas is one of just six states not to allow some form of open carry. The others are Illinois, New York, Arkansas, South Carolina and Florida. An open-carry law went into effect in Oklahoma on Nov. 1

They really need to add Mississippi to that list. The law says you can open carry, but some idiot Judge decided that a holster at least partially conceals a weapon and that makes it a concealed weapon which requires a permit and also makes it illegal to allow it to show. I haven't been able to get anyone to tell me how one would go about open carry here - can you walk around with a gun in your hand or does you hand constitute "concealment? If you tie a string around your neck with the gun hanging off it, does it make it legal to carry? IOW, we have a law that says we can open carry, but an edict that prohibits it.

34 posted on 11/28/2012 3:16:02 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: marktwain

What has happened to this world?

Back in the 50’s when I was a kid I used to walk down the street past the house I live in now carrying a .22 rifle or .410 shotgun over my shoulder with my buddies doing the same to go hunting about 2 miles out of town.

No one thought a thing about it.

Today, if I walked out with a BB gun and went down the street...within 5 minutes the police swat team would have me down on the ground to be arrested for 25-50 violations of the law.

What’s happened is that our culture (mainly women who are horrified at bugs, mice, snakes and most of all...guns) believe if something bothers you, simply let the government solve the problem that annoys you.

Well, the government is in full production mode at removing the problem....FREEDOM.

Now, what percentage of women voted for Obama? Pretty telling isn’t it.


35 posted on 11/28/2012 5:28:05 AM PST by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: DH

I wouldn’t put it down to government dependency as much as a gradual loss of “gun culture”.

Public opinion had turned against guns in the 1960s, for assorted reasons, which eventually resulted in the Gun Control Act of 1968, and just as importantly, in the national change in the 1970s of police procedure from “Old West rules”, to “SWAT rules”, in handling *their* guns. Encouraged and subsidized by the anti-gun federal government.

The end result was two-fold, both skyrocketing crime rates, but more subtly the loss of “family gun culture”, many parents in urban and suburban settings no longer teaching their children about the proper handling and use, and etiquette, of guns.

Today, guns are more popular than ever among the public, crime rates have plummeted, but two things remain that are problematic: the police are still caught up in their “SWAT rules”, and there is widespread ignorance of “gun etiquette” even in the segment of the public that are very pro-gun.

The “SWAT rules” situation is a serious problem, because to overcome it, police must do something that goes against the federal zeitgeist: they must treat people differently based to a great extent on their socioeconomic status and behavior.

That is, if some scruffy looking drunk poor guy wearing a wife beater t-shirt is behaving in an aggressive manner, the police should go “SWAT” on him. But at the same time, a person from the middle class, who while he may have committed an offense, is not going to want to wrestle with a cop; he needs to be treated with “Old West” rules, which are far more appropriate to his “station”.

Gun culture among the public and police, on the other hand, almost needs an “Emily Post”, because of its complexity. Even posters in this thread have noted that police behavior varies wildly in different places with different gun laws and cultures.

Etiquette is not standardized overnight, but it would be good to have some written rules, both universal and unique to particular states. What to do and when to do it, and what not to do and why, could stop a huge amount of heartburn among both the citizenry and the police. And it has the added bonus of encouraging safe use, because there is a large amount of gun knowledge that is oriented to safety.


36 posted on 11/28/2012 6:06:00 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: marktwain
Of course. Open, concealed, suppressed, full auto, single shot, pump, multi-barrel, belt-fed...

It's an Individual Right that Shall not be Infringed. Both in the keeping of them and in the bearing of those arms. This applies to all 50 States under the "Laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding" clause.

I keep repeating it, but this is not rocket surgery...

37 posted on 11/28/2012 6:10:56 AM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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