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City Hall wants diesel drivers to swap for electric vehicles
WBEZ91.5 ^ | 11-27-12 | Lauren Choolijan

Posted on 11/27/2012 8:04:45 PM PST by smokingfrog

Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel wants to make a deal with diesel truck owners in the Chicagoland area: give up your truck, and the city will give you a voucher that covers around 60 percent of the cost of a new electric one.

Officials say the project could help with air quality and even quieter streets across the city. By next spring, fleets in Cook, DuPage, Kane, Lake, McHenry and Will counties will be able to apply for the program.

“The city is encouraging companies to invest in electric vehicles in order to incrementally improve Chicago’s air quality while helping to advance these emerging transportation technologies,” Chicago Department of Transportation Commissioner Gabe Klein said in a statement. “By offering a voucher at the point of sale, rather than as a post-sale rebate, we hope that more companies will be encouraged to participate in the program.”

But not all drivers are jumping at the chance to trade in their truck. Phil LaPalermo, co-owner of All Ways Paving and Plowing, says he's not sure there's an electrical vehicle out there that can compare to the power of a diesel truck. LaPalermo said he likes the idea of using alternative energy sources, but the diesel engine is what keeps his fleet plowing and paving streets all over the city and suburbs.

(Excerpt) Read more at wbez.org ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: diesel; fedgrants; friendsofbarack; pipedream; trucks
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1 posted on 11/27/2012 8:04:58 PM PST by smokingfrog
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To: smokingfrog

I think Rahm Emanuel’s time would be better spent getting rid of the gangs and gang killings then worrying about air quality in Chicago.


2 posted on 11/27/2012 8:10:32 PM PST by doc1019 (Abortion: Women have a choice, unborn babies don't.)
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To: smokingfrog

One thing about commie libs, they love to spend other people’s money. Cheap bass turds with their own though. The patriotic and “green” thing for this turd to do is pay for the first shipment of this junk out of his own pocket.


3 posted on 11/27/2012 8:11:07 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (Don't tax me bro! Tax that guy over there!)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Let’s go electric instead of natural gas. dupes.


4 posted on 11/27/2012 8:12:24 PM PST by huldah1776
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To: smokingfrog
and the city will give you a voucher that covers around 60 percent of the cost of a new electric one.

Chi-Town is rich? Whoda guessed it?

5 posted on 11/27/2012 8:14:24 PM PST by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: smokingfrog

Just get a team of Unicorns to pull the Trucks, problem solved.


6 posted on 11/27/2012 8:14:33 PM PST by Kickass Conservative (Looks like my Father was wrong, somebody else DOES owe you a living...)
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To: smokingfrog

lol... just thinking about the amount of electricity that would need to be generated to charge all of the batteries that it would take to move 500 tons of goods down the road for any length of time.

Hey... why stop there? why not electric trains?


7 posted on 11/27/2012 8:16:53 PM PST by Safrguns
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To: smokingfrog

I wonder to where the money trail will lead...


8 posted on 11/27/2012 8:17:46 PM PST by jonno (Having an opinion is not the same as having the answer...)
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To: smokingfrog
Where does that ballerina think electricity comes from?
9 posted on 11/27/2012 8:18:37 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: smokingfrog
Because 'lektrikity comes from that plug in the wall, not dirty coal....

LOL!

Clueless, but what do you expect from government.

/johnny

10 posted on 11/27/2012 8:18:56 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: smokingfrog

It’s only a matter of time until you are ordered to buy a Government Motors Mini-Volt (made in South Korea, naturally)


11 posted on 11/27/2012 8:19:08 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: smokingfrog

LMAO.... Has anything Chicago has done has ever been successful??

I see trucks all over Chicago pulled off to the side of the road — dead batteries..... and when it’s freezing out — dying people.


12 posted on 11/27/2012 8:22:12 PM PST by Gator113 (**WHO in the hell gave the damn order to NOT rescue our men in Benghazi?**)
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To: Safrguns

^^ Hey... why stop there? why not electric trains? ^^

You are aware that trains are electric, right? They run diesel generators and use electric drive axles, the original “hybrid”. Streetcars, subways, and the like are pure electric.

What I am waiting for is a tandem dumptruck, or snow plow that is all electric.


13 posted on 11/27/2012 8:24:48 PM PST by wrench
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To: smokingfrog
Will there be Electric Ducks?


14 posted on 11/27/2012 8:27:53 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: GeronL
a Government Motors Mini-Volt (made in South Korea, naturally)

Or in North Korea, like this.

15 posted on 11/27/2012 8:31:53 PM PST by Greysard
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To: smokingfrog

It’s my understanding that diesel vehicles are very nearly pollution-free vehicles as is.

A very silly man.


16 posted on 11/27/2012 8:32:20 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: wrench

I’m waiting on the first electric 747.


17 posted on 11/27/2012 8:34:42 PM PST by USAF80
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To: USAF80
I’m waiting on the first electric 747.

I suppose that could be done.

How long it lasts depends on the starting airspeed and altitude.

Batt A and Batt B switch position might not really matter.

/johnny

18 posted on 11/27/2012 8:40:00 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

You’re correct.

After a few hundred miles, the battery A and battery bvswitch will not matter. :)


19 posted on 11/27/2012 8:42:53 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: USAF80

I guess putting “747” stickers on the Gossamer Albatross won’t cut it for you?


20 posted on 11/27/2012 8:45:20 PM PST by wrench
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To: wrench
You are aware that trains are electric, right? They run diesel generators and use electric drive axles

I knew that, just never understood it, not being an electrician or an engineer or physicist. I always thought that when you convert energy from one form to another that there is a net loss and therefore it would make more sense to run them directly with diesel engines. Is it just not practical for some reason?

I'm dead serious and would appreciate any explanation offered.

21 posted on 11/27/2012 8:50:59 PM PST by Graybeard58 (What G.O.P.e. candidate is in store for us in 2016?)
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To: Safrguns
why not electric trains?

Yes. Those would be diesel electrics. They use the same type system on some ferry boats. Probably not all that practical for a dump truck though.

22 posted on 11/27/2012 8:53:27 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: Jonty30
It’s my understanding that diesel vehicles are very nearly pollution-free vehicles as is.

A very silly man.

Yes, but it shows he "cares" and "feels" and isn't that the very definition of a democrat?

23 posted on 11/27/2012 8:53:47 PM PST by Graybeard58 (What G.O.P.e. candidate is in store for us in 2016?)
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To: smokingfrog
Electric power plants are powered by coal. Electric cars use electricity. Cap and Trade will cause energy prices to go through the roof (Obama said this is his desire). The cost of goods transported by trucks will likewise go through the roof.

There's going to be a whole lot of unintended consequences for the Left coming very soon.

24 posted on 11/27/2012 8:58:57 PM PST by Artcore
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To: smokingfrog

Rahm must think you can buy an electric powered 18 wheeler.


25 posted on 11/27/2012 8:59:27 PM PST by Iron Munro (Big Moo & Bronco 'Bama = Robbing From The Hood and Boy Blunder)
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To: mylife

I think they have a gas engine. A diesel would be better though.


26 posted on 11/27/2012 9:00:44 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: Graybeard58

I think there is some energy savings in not having all the drive shafts, etc that would be necessary to drive the multiple wheels on a train locomotive. Also high torque at low speed is helpful on a train. And I assume there is no need for a transmission. But, I would never characterize the engine as ‘electric’. Its power comes from a massive internal combustion engine.


27 posted on 11/27/2012 9:05:56 PM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: smokingfrog

I am sure you are correct.
I was just being snarky, and quite honestly big twin diesels rock on water.


28 posted on 11/27/2012 9:06:05 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: smokingfrog

And just how many electric alternatives are there that can equal the towing capacity and torque of a diesel truck?


29 posted on 11/27/2012 9:07:57 PM PST by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
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To: Safrguns

they have electric trains ;) much easier to electrify the wire over the tracks and use the track as the ground/neutral when the train can’t go anywhere the track doesn’t.

Even diesel locomotives use electric motors.


30 posted on 11/27/2012 9:27:42 PM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: Graybeard58

electric motors produce a hell of a lot of torque. They make this torque at all speeds and do not need to shift.

Diesel trucks have 10-18 speeds for a reason. You need to keep the engine in the power band to keep things moving.


31 posted on 11/27/2012 9:31:05 PM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: Graybeard58
Simplistic explanation: You need a lot of power/torque to get something large and heavy like a train moving. Once it is moving, the amount of power needed to keep it moving is a lot less. A diesel engine uses little fuel at idle or low power, which is all that is needed to keep the electric generator going and the train moving at normal speeds. Dynamic braking is also advantage of the diesel electric. A straight diesel locomotive requires a large heavy complicated mechanical transmission which reduces the efficiency.

Read the wiki article if you want more in depth info.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_locomotive#Diesel-electric

32 posted on 11/27/2012 9:32:33 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: mylife
They can be eco-friendly too.

I'm saving up for a Emax Super Marine 45

33 posted on 11/27/2012 9:40:16 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog

Hrm. What I’m wondering is, how well would an all-electric vehicle compare to a diesel when it comes to heavy work tasks - i.e. plows, heavy load hauling, etc.?

Electric motors certainly can provide torque, but I question whether they could perform the same task continuously for as long as a comparable diesel. It seems to me an electric’s batteries are likely to be used up well before a diesel tank runs dry.

I also have to wonder about durability and maintenance costs. We’ve gotten pretty good with diesels these days. They start in the wintertime and the better engines are just about bulletproof with normal maintenance. I don’t know how good these electrics are, but I think it’s fair to ask how well an electric design will endure a Chicago winter compared to a diesel. I also think it’s fair to ask how much more $$$ a business owner will have to spend on maintaining said vehicle.


34 posted on 11/27/2012 9:44:11 PM PST by DemforBush (100% Ex-Democrat.)
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To: Graybeard58

Diesels, more than gas engines, have an optimum speed and >load< for best economy and perhaps a different speed for max power. But even gas engines have an innate speed at which they operate best. Also, using electric motors for train propulsion offers both incredible torque for starting, because they can handle brief overloads and also have the ability to use the electric motors as dynamic brakes...turning them into generators, the generators power giant resistors, generating heat, and serious braking power results. This means that the locos don’t have to have such giant brake shoes...useful to help stop the whole train. Plus the traction motors can be reversed pretty easily without having to have a geared transmission on the diesel which of course would be massive given the torque and power involved. Furthermore, it is relatively easy to synchronize multiple motors to rotate at the same speed allowing multiple engines to be used in tandem, which makes it easier to match the no of locos to the particular load and the type and amount of uphill pulling the loco must perform. And finally, the ability to control everything electrically meant that fewer people were required to run the train, esp with multiple engines. This was all developed during the early-through-middle part of the last century to a fairly fine art, and it was universally determined by all mfrs and freight/PAX lines that the diesel-electric combo was the best, cheapest, and most flexible. So while you are correct that changing one kind of energy to another involves some losses, these things have been studied and tested to exhaustion and the diesel-electric came to be the chosen mode. Motors, at this point (and even 50 years ago) got to be pretty darn efficient in converting electrical energy into axle torque. Of course, some electric trains have overhead or third rail electrical supply and those don’t need the diesel combustion engine.


35 posted on 11/27/2012 9:45:17 PM PST by Attention Surplus Disorder (This stuff we're going through now, this is nothing compared to the middle ages.)
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To: Kickass Conservative
Just get a team of Unicorns to pull the Trucks, problem solved <<

Yes!!!...and when the Unicorns $hit...the kids will have an endless supply of M+Ms.....

36 posted on 11/27/2012 9:54:41 PM PST by M-cubed
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To: DemforBush

They do make hybrid electric transit buses, but they’re expensive and the advantages are minimal or dubious.

http://www.hybridcenter.org/hybrid-transit-buses.html


37 posted on 11/27/2012 9:57:02 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog

You could buy a lot of diesel fuel for the cost of the electric vehicles. When it comes time for new batteries, there will be real buyer’s remorse.


38 posted on 11/27/2012 9:57:23 PM PST by jonrick46 (The opium of other people's money.)
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To: M-cubed

Those will be some big ass M&M’s.

They could rename them Mochelle & Moochelles...


39 posted on 11/27/2012 10:00:48 PM PST by Kickass Conservative (Looks like my Father was wrong, somebody else DOES owe you a living...)
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To: smokingfrog
I'd be happy with a 1972 58' Hatteras with twin Cummings diesels ☺


40 posted on 11/27/2012 10:03:06 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: M-cubed
Silly boy, everyone knows Unicorns poop SkittlesTM
41 posted on 11/27/2012 10:04:28 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: mylife
Yeah, that's probably more my speed. Not much of a chick magnet though.... ☺
42 posted on 11/27/2012 10:09:16 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog

Nah..


43 posted on 11/27/2012 10:11:17 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: smokingfrog
LMAO!!...I thought of that after I posted...but I didn't want to bring Travon into it and make it racist
44 posted on 11/27/2012 10:17:36 PM PST by M-cubed
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To: Darnright

None.

There are motors that can do it and even exceed the torque of a diesel engine.

But there is no power source that will give a usable amount of power before recharge.

But an electric truck is much easier to start when its -30 in Chicago. The heater will kill the battery before your out of the parking lot but eh, that’s just a technicality.


45 posted on 11/27/2012 10:37:35 PM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: Iron Munro

How bout a natural gas powered one? Those they do make.


46 posted on 11/27/2012 10:38:20 PM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: Jonty30

they are stench mobiles. however, i rate that as a problem of
lesser importance than say removing the gangstas from control of the streets.


47 posted on 11/27/2012 10:41:17 PM PST by RitchieAprile (the obsteperous gentleman..)
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To: Graybeard58
I always thought that when you convert energy from one form to another that there is a net loss and therefore it would make more sense to run them directly with diesel engines. Is it just not practical for some reason?

The reason is that it is much more cost effective to generate electricity and use electric motors to drive the wheels than to build a transmission and clutch to handle the power.

Diesel locomotives are typically 2000 to 6000 horsepower, but have a limited RPM range. They would need a lot more gears than a car which has a transmission with 3 to six gear ratios. And, the gears would need to be much larger than automotive gears to handle the loads. Transmissions also have internal losses. These are typically low, but even 1% loss of a few thousand horsepower is a lot of heat, which is where the power loss shows up.

48 posted on 11/27/2012 11:02:01 PM PST by CurlyDave
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To: Red Badger

Ping-Diesel


49 posted on 11/27/2012 11:36:59 PM PST by moose07 (The truth will out, one day.)
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To: smokingfrog

DIESEL electric trains! And trains don’t have batteries that catch fire when wet. The Rhamster ignores natural gas which already is running trucks all over the city. What a publicity seeking putz.


50 posted on 11/27/2012 11:52:13 PM PST by Thebaddog (Obama won, we lost)
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