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WHO’S AFRAID OF THE FISCAL CLIFF? (Patrick J. Buchanan)
Human Events ^ | 11/27/2012 | Patrick J. Buchanan

Posted on 11/27/2012 9:35:36 PM PST by neverdem

Were the average Republican asked for a succinct statement of his views on taxation, he or she might respond thus:

“U.S. tax rates are too high for the world we must compete in. The tax burden — federal, state, local, together — is too heavy. We need to cut tax rates to free up our private and productive sector and pull this economy out of the ditch.”

This core conviction holds the party together.

Yet today the leadership is about to abandon this conviction to sign on to higher tax rates or revenues, while the economy is nearing stall speed. Yet, two years ago, President Obama himself extended the Bush tax cuts because, he said, you do not raise taxes in a recovering economy.

Why are Republicans negotiating this capitulation?

Because they have been warned that if they do not sign on to a tax hike, they will take us all over a fiscal cliff.

If we go over, Republicans are being told, you will be responsible for tax hikes on all Americans as the Bush tax cuts expire on Jan. 1.

You will be responsible for a surge in tax rates on dividends, interest, capital gains, estates.

You will be responsible for an automatic sequester catastrophic to the national defense.

This is the pistol Obama is pointing at the GOP. This is extortion.

The Debunker asks: Should the GOP cave on tax hikes?

Republicans are being told that they either vote for something they believe to be wrong and ruinous — or get something worse. Pay the ransom, fellas, Obama is demanding, or take the blame for a second recession.

Like the Panama Canal debate that made Ronald Reagan a hero, this is a defining moment. No GOP senator who agreed to the Carter-Torrijos treaty ever made it onto a national ticket.

What are the perils for Republicans who sign on to an Obama deal?

They will sever themselves permanently from much of the base of the party. While their votes may ensure that tax rates or revenues rise, they will have no assurance that the promised spending cuts will ever be made. Even Reagan fell victim to this bait-and-switch.

Then, if the tax hikes slow the economy, Republican collaborators will share the blame. Not only will they have gone back on their word, they will have damaged the recovery. What would be their argument for re-election?

If you believe higher tax rates or tax revenues would be like poisoning an already weak economy, why would you collaborate in administering that poison? Why not just say no?

Having lost the presidency and seats in both houses, Republicans should not partner with a president with whom they disagree on principle.

They should act as the loyal opposition in a parliamentary system whose duty it is to oppose, to offer an alternative agenda and to wait upon the success or failure of the government, as Labor is doing in Britain and the conservatives are doing in France.

What should Speaker John Boehner do?

Tell the president politely that America’s problem is not that we are taxed too little but that we spend too much — and the GOP will not sign on either to tax rate or tax revenue increases. For Republicans believe that would further injure the economy — especially an economy limping along at between 1 and 2 percent growth.

Then Boehner should depart the White House, go back up to the Hill and urge his Republican caucus to do two things.

Pass an extension of the Social Security payroll tax cut and block its automatic rise from 4.2 percent of wages to 6.2 percent. To raise that tax now and scoop off the discretionary income of most of America’s families in this anemic economy makes no sense economically or politically.

The House should then vote to extend the Bush tax cuts for another year, with a pledge to do tax reform — lowering tax rates in return for culling, cutting or capping deductions for the well-to-do in the new year.

Then let Harry Reid work his will. If the Senate votes to let Social Security taxes rise, let Harry and his party explain this to the middle class that gets hammered in January. If the Senate votes to let the Bush tax cuts lapse for those over $200,000, decide in the caucus whether to negotiate — or to go home for Christmas and New Year’s.

As for the automatic sequester that would impose $100 billion in cuts next year, half in defense, do nothing. Let it take effect. The budget has to be cut, and while these cuts are heavy on defense, the depth and mixture can be adjusted in the new year.

If Republicans walk away from tax negotiations with the White House, market investors, anticipating a sharp rise in tax rates on dividends, interest and capital gains next year, will start dumping stocks, bonds and investments to take advantage of the last year of lower taxes.

The market may tank. Let the party of high taxes explain it.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: buchanan; fiscalcliff

1 posted on 11/27/2012 9:35:53 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

I have a theory that the Dems and the Pubbies have us pushed to the edge of the Fiscal Cliff, and we are backing up toward them while getting the Royal Screw Job!


2 posted on 11/27/2012 9:42:16 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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Forward or Back?


3 posted on 11/27/2012 9:43:50 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: neverdem
My opinion....Obama won!...give ‘em every thing they ask for...

The house should vote “present”...let the Senate decide....

Our kids will lead the rebellion!

4 posted on 11/27/2012 9:44:36 PM PST by M-cubed
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To: neverdem
The repubs should refuse to go along and fight against the tax increases. If and when the economy crashes, they can come back to say, we warned the democrats not to do this. They will not get the blame. If, they go along with the dems with things collapse, the media will blame the republicans. They must stand firm and show Americans that these 2 parties stand differently: w/ higher taxing and the other does not.
5 posted on 11/27/2012 9:45:09 PM PST by Christie at the beach (I like Newt. .Our nation's foundation is under attack.)
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To: neverdem

if we don’t force WashDC to CUT taxes substantially, and quickly, this recession could easily descend into a genuine depression


6 posted on 11/27/2012 9:47:48 PM PST by faithhopecharity (--)
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To: faithhopecharity

We need to cut SPENDING first and foremost!


7 posted on 11/27/2012 9:49:53 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: neverdem

While some argue that going over the cliff gives a total win to the Democrats, they get both higher taxes on the rich and big Defense cuts, I agree we need to stand on principle this time and very forcefully focus the light on Democrats for the tax hit on the middle class - hopefully bringing a lot more people into the role of paying federal income tax. Too many currently have nothing in the game, and the fiscal cliff may be what it takes to get them back in. Those that voted for Zero or sat it out have no one else to blame, it could all have been avoided with some fiscal responsibility from the White House.


8 posted on 11/27/2012 9:51:12 PM PST by LibertyOh
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To: neverdem

We need this degree of drama from some quarter to raise morale. We who are in shock are doing nothing, really, and are leaderless, left basically complying and cooperating, paying our taxes and fees, pounding our keyboards, but offering no real resistance. Yet.


9 posted on 11/27/2012 9:54:17 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: LibertyOh

They’ll all be on vacation in a week.
Nothing will be done to stop the fiscal cliff.

When they return all fat and rested the blame game will commence.

We get screwed, they laugh.


10 posted on 11/27/2012 9:55:31 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: neverdem

I’d be happy if Boehner just went home and refused any contact from the White Hut...


11 posted on 11/27/2012 9:59:48 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: mylife; neverdem
>neverdem - I have a theory that the Dems and the Pubbies have us pushed to the edge of the Fiscal Cliff, and we are backing up toward them while getting the Royal Screw Job!

>>mylife - Forward or Back?

Does it really matter which way we are getting screwed? I see no hope either way. The only difference may be the timing of the fiscal implosion. The "automatic sequester" is only a delay tactic at best. Those who delay preparing now for the inevitable outcome will have only themselves to blame.

12 posted on 11/27/2012 10:14:19 PM PST by whodathunkit
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To: whodathunkit

That is the crux of my theory.


13 posted on 11/27/2012 10:16:27 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: neverdem

All this for measly $100 Billion in cuts? In a year when spending was what, bout $3.5 Trillion? This is madness this talk of a “Fiscal Cliff.” It is nothing of the sort. Including the Defense cuts.


14 posted on 11/27/2012 10:21:13 PM PST by PghBaldy (Pete Hoekstra RE: Petraeus scandal - "There's more here than meets the eye.")
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To: neverdem

Going over the cliff mans that 40% will not pay taxes instead of 47%. Increasing taxes on the top 2% only will make it impossible to ever shift the burden again.
Can you imagine proposing a tax hike on the middle class only or a cut for the rich only?


15 posted on 11/27/2012 10:21:29 PM PST by MNDude
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To: M-cubed
...give ‘em every thing they ask for... The house should vote “present”...let the Senate decide....

Agree.

16 posted on 11/27/2012 10:36:27 PM PST by Ken H
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To: neverdem
The Dims out witted the GOP again. They are all for the Defense cuts and are more than happy to see the GOP take the blame for both the likely recession and the Defense cuts...

I have no illusions about the ability of either party to Defend this country from our enemies...

17 posted on 11/27/2012 10:38:37 PM PST by montanajoe
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To: neverdem
The payroll tax cut is nothing. What you gain on your pays tub is offset when you pay income tax on it.

A small business owner needs to write an article detailing in dollars and cents of raising tax rates on "the rich" and the affects on his/her business.

18 posted on 11/27/2012 10:47:27 PM PST by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux)
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To: neverdem

Two days ago I moved my entire portfolio into TAB municipal bonds. (I was aggressively positioned with 70% stocks because I am still fairly young.) I don’t know much about finance, but I do know nothing good can come out of the next 4 years. I am just hoping to outlast the insanity. I’m not optimistic about the Country’s fiscal future! But I’m from a long line of Louisiana rednecks. We have a little land and we know how to put meat on a fire, so I guess we’ll be ok.


19 posted on 11/27/2012 10:52:20 PM PST by Casie (Chuck Norris 2016)
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To: faithhopecharity
There's going to be a depression at some point whether people like it or not. Government needs to be cut, to the tune of 40+%. It makes up enough of GDP that it is what comprises all of what everyone gets all sweaty over as some type of recovery.

In order to halt or fix the problem, they need to not have "lowered rates of increase", and they need to not "cut 5%", they needs the CUTS OF THE APOCALYPSE! Medicare part D, Dept energy, Dept education, Homeland Security, TSA, large swaths of welfare need to just go away. 5-10% from military, and separate UNTOUCHABLE depository for social security.

The ONLY reason that either party wants to "tweak" it like is written of in the media is so they can continue to BORROW and

-----> SPEND MORE, <-----.

If you gave the politicians EVERY tax hike they wanted the deficit would not go down a penny BECAUSE THEY WOULD SPEND IT!

Government needs to get it through it's head that through some way shape or form we are going to starve it into submission...

20 posted on 11/27/2012 11:07:56 PM PST by Axenolith (Government blows, and that which governs least, blows least...)
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To: neverdem

This emotional blackmail has been the strategy behind everything 0bama and the Dems have done. America is being driven to total ruination because no one in DC will stand up to it.


21 posted on 11/27/2012 11:18:12 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: neverdem
Even Buchanon has lost his mind. THERE IS NOTAX RATE THAT WILL INCREASE REVENUES NOW. Much less put a dent of any size in the debt or, apparently, spending.
22 posted on 11/27/2012 11:20:15 PM PST by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: Casie

I would hang on to the land if you can plant or hunt it. Get rid of the paper. Watch Ann Barnhardt’s latest 8 part vid on YouTube. Actually, hunting will probably go fast cuz of poachers. Of course poachers make good dog food...


23 posted on 11/27/2012 11:25:49 PM PST by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: neverdem
What are the perils for Republicans who sign on to an Obama deal?

They will sever themselves permanently from much of the base of the party. While their votes may ensure that tax rates or revenues rise, they will have no assurance that the promised spending cuts will ever be made. Even Reagan fell victim to this bait-and-switch.

Then, if the tax hikes slow the economy, Republican collaborators will share the blame. Not only will they have gone back on their word, they will have damaged the recovery. What would be their argument for re-election?

If you believe higher tax rates or tax revenues would be like poisoning an already weak economy, why would you collaborate in administering that poison? Why not just say no?

If Republicans want to save this party and fight another day, it's time to once again, say "NO."

24 posted on 11/27/2012 11:30:06 PM PST by GVnana
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To: Axenolith

Thanks. And then cut taxes too. The economy needs it badly


25 posted on 11/27/2012 11:45:05 PM PST by faithhopecharity (--)
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To: wastoute
Good advice. I have watched Ann's vid's. It took me several hours because I kept re-watching sections searching for flaws in her logic... the truth of our financial situation is very ugly and I found it difficult to accept!

Usually stories of a stock market melt down are written by people selling silver or gold, and I always try to take that into consideration. I actually searched out articles that aggressively attacked Ann. Lots of people call her a lunatic and compare her to a bum holding up a sign pronouncing the end is near.

But I noticed those articles don't present any actual reasons why she is wrong. I even wrote to Gary North about his article on Ann and instead of giving me a single small example of why he thinks Ann is incorrect, he told me to get lost and ended his email with "I don't care what you think."

At this point I really have no faith in the market at all. Everything Ann says could very well happen. I'm just not ready to let go of that last shred of "reasonable" thinking that says cashing out is drastic and fanatical. That little voice that says, "Just try and protect accounts as best as you can and wait for the whole thing to blow over". And just in case... buy that hand pump for the well.

26 posted on 11/28/2012 12:01:00 AM PST by Casie (Chuck Norris 2016)
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To: Casie

I am no financial advisor, but do some research on munis. They are probably not the place to be either. We are going to go deflationary first—cash is king. Munis will fail along with the rest of them.


27 posted on 11/28/2012 12:03:15 AM PST by Vermont Lt (We are so screwed.)
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To: neverdem
Pass a Bill in the House that makes the Bush Tax Cuts permanent then send it to the Senate..

Then unplug the Phone in the Office of the Speaker of the House.

28 posted on 11/28/2012 12:04:04 AM PST by agincourt1415 (Tired of the current State, and Federal Tax System go here: APTTAX.com)
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To: Vermont Lt
Thanks for the info Vermont. The more I learn about the market the more I realize how completely over my head I am. I miss the days of being able to take it for granted that my financial adviser was just magically taking care of things.

I went with the municipal bonds simply because they had the least amount of risks of the options I had in front of me. The chart showed a slow steady turtle-like line plodding on over the last 90 years, almost staying in range of inflation but not quite. When you talk about cash, are you saying cash in hand or cash holdings? Thinking about that 10% penalty + personal tax rate is a loss makes me so darn angry! I sometimes wish I had just skipped investing. I could have bought a killer pontoon boat, some sweet fishing gear, maybe new kitchen counter tops...

29 posted on 11/28/2012 12:19:22 AM PST by Casie (Chuck Norris 2016)
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To: Casie

No one can refute a single thing she says. Notice the Brown Shirt Media isn’t the least interested in any part of it. Think of it. Two and a half HOURS of vid watched by thousands and the “journalists” ignore it. Even “conservative” so called journalists. Even Krauthammer, who I used to think had a pair. It’s like these folks aren’t stupid. They have to KNOW. They sure as hell don’t go near it with a story. Not even by accident. It is frightening, really. They do their best to fill their time with manufactured outrage over crap like Benghazi or what the hell ever but imminent global financial collapse isn’t even on the menu. Nowhere. Friggin’ spooky.


30 posted on 11/28/2012 12:22:32 AM PST by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: TigersEye

The founding fathers would have had lead flying by now.


31 posted on 11/28/2012 12:36:45 AM PST by MachIV
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To: wastoute
Exactly. Their silence reeks of collusion.

But according to them we are all a bunch of conspiracy nuts clinging to our guns and religion... so what do we know? Heh!

32 posted on 11/28/2012 12:37:02 AM PST by Casie (Chuck Norris 2016)
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To: neverdem
Nothing the 535 plans will stop anything. The plans they are contemplating are the equivalent of a BB in a box car.

Our country is flat broke and everything ZERO plans does nothing to correct the problem.
The only good thing is maybe we can start over and get the congress our founding Fathers designed for US. Citizens going to Washington to serve kinda like Jury Duty. Not the cushy jobs & perks they have now.

33 posted on 11/28/2012 1:34:35 AM PST by DeaconRed (We couldn't beat the least qualified and absolute worst president ever. Our party is done for.)
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To: agincourt1415

“Pass a Bill in the House that makes the Bush Tax Cuts permanent then send it to the Senate”

That’s the right thing to do. And re-pass the Ryan budget and say ‘this meets the criteria to avoid automatic tax hikes and spending cuts’, and go home. Reid and 0bama would need to present their full plan (not just the $90B ‘rich’ tax hike).

In reality, this won’t happen, and no agreement will happen. Possibly 0bama and Boehner have already agreed to something and their lackeys are working out the details. Then watch for a bait-and-switch, and Republicans will get the blame for the resulting mess.


34 posted on 11/28/2012 2:23:02 AM PST by ReaganGeneration2
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To: neverdem

bump


35 posted on 11/28/2012 3:25:51 AM PST by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: neverdem
Pass an extension of the Social Security payroll tax cut and block its automatic rise from 4.2 percent of wages to 6.2 percent.

Social security is bankrupt, so lets underfund it. Brilliant!!!

36 posted on 11/28/2012 3:38:57 AM PST by Go Gordon (It's barack hussein obama - because he doesn't believe in capitalism.)
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To: neverdem

I agree with Pat on this but the SS cut never should have happened and it should be allowed to expire.


37 posted on 11/28/2012 3:48:07 AM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: M-cubed
My opinion....Obama won!...give ‘em every thing they ask for...

Easier to just vote "present", say that if it was good enough for the President while he was a Senator, it's good enough for them, and let tax hikes and sequestration occur under the law the President signed a year and a hald ago...

38 posted on 11/28/2012 4:04:08 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: ReaganGeneration2

If anything guarantees failure, it is Obama AND Boehner.


39 posted on 11/28/2012 4:24:58 AM PST by Theodore R. ("Hey, the American people must all be crazy out there!")
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To: neverdem

Let it all collapse.Let the world see what eighty years of the welfare state produces. There’s nothing of value left anyway, let it die


40 posted on 11/28/2012 4:25:58 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: neverdem
“U.S. tax rates are too high for the world we must compete in. The tax burden — federal, state, local, together — is too heavy. We need to cut tax rates to free up our private and productive sector and pull this economy out of the ditch.”

Really? The average Republican's first thought is that taxes are too high to compete in the world? I don't think so.

Let me try: "Taxes are too high and they're killing us."

There, that's my first thought.

41 posted on 11/28/2012 4:48:37 AM PST by Jabba the Nutt (.Are they stupid, malicious or evil?)
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To: neverdem

What are the perils for Republicans who sign on to an Obama deal?


Well, they found out this last election didn’t they?


42 posted on 11/28/2012 4:49:38 AM PST by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: neverdem

43 posted on 11/28/2012 4:54:23 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: ReaganGeneration2
Or how about this. No taxes, every federal tax rescinded.

Then as a free market economy we take in all the money that flowed out of the country to somewhere else. The United States has NO TAXES!

Manufacturing comes back, everything comes back from overseas.

The government prints money, and we take the inflation hit, but thats what we are doing now, except we are taxed on top of it, and taxes wont pay for anything now.

At least with no taxes, we have something to show for the inflation hit, and with proper money management, inflation might be down to a few points a year.

Other thing is open drilling anywhere in the US. And build the synthetic oil plants, because they make financial sense at about 60 buck a barrel for oil.

Low priced oil will take us back down to a buck a gallon for gas.

44 posted on 11/28/2012 2:49:43 PM PST by agincourt1415 (Tired of the current State, and Federal Tax System go here: APTTAX.com)
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