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Argument over loud music led to teen's fatal shooting, cops say(Trayvon Martin redux?)
Orlando Sentinel ^ | 11-27

Posted on 11/27/2012 10:23:53 PM PST by Arthurio

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To: marktwain
Very probable scenario, given that just yesterday I was faced with an attempted robbery in similar circumstances. I was trying to enter my parked car at a local shopping center, when another car pulled up from behind. An occupant in the front passenger seat called out to me, and motioned for me to come to his window. Four sullen individuals, straight out of central casting, festooned in dread locks and dressed all in black, were glaring at me from the vehicle. I peered into their vehicle from several feet away, and noticed the passenger was decidedly furtive, nervous. He shifted position, and reached for something under his jacket, as he insisted that I come to his window.

Long story short, this is a common robbery technique during the holiday shopping season in our area. Go after a distracted shopper on condition "white," and catch them unprepared. This time they chose poorly. I survived it. Had a shooting occurred, I have no doubt the MSM would have painted me as some white hispanic vigilante who had shot four "teens" out Christmas shopping for their dear Granny.
51 posted on 11/28/2012 8:48:02 AM PST by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: spetznaz
Good post.

Further reports state that the police found no weapon in the car or near the scene, and that all the passengers in the SUV remained on the scene to make reports.

As it stands, there is zero evidence that anyone in that car was armed.

As you say, the shooter fled the scene and did not contact the police until after the incident was being reported on the news.

The shooter has been described as a "gun collector" but there is no report I've yet seen saying he had a CCW.

More details about the dead teenager are emerging - unlike Trayvon Martin he was apparently a student in good standing at a magnet high school (we'll see if this claim changes) and he was reportedly gainfully employed in an after-school job at a supermarket.

It's unclear if the shooter was coming from or going to a wedding when the incident occurred, but if he was coming from the wedding, there will be testimony about how much he was drinking.

Barring any shocking new facts, this guy is done - and if he was a CCW holder, he may bring Floridians' 2A rights with him.

52 posted on 11/28/2012 9:00:54 AM PST by wideawake
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To: spetznaz
The only way this guy is avoiding prison time is if CCTV shows the occupants of the other vehicle brandishing a weapon. Somehow I doubt such evidence will come up, and I also doubt it happened that way. This was probably a 'nice person' who was having a bad day and events just pushed him over the edge, and he responded in a manner that I believe he wishes he didn't.

My impression is that this is the kind of thing you only see in the movies or among criminal perps. This being a regular guy, I have my doubts. I'm inclined to think that he saw a sudden movement inside the SUV suggesting that a weapon was being readied for use, whereupon he reached for his holstered gun and opened fire. While I think it was a bad idea for him to talk to a bunch of black teenagers who were strangers to him about the noise they were making, simply because of the risk (1) that they were criminals and (2) of escalation, it's not a crime to act in self-defense. Nonetheless, I think there's a chance he may go down for negligent homicide.

53 posted on 11/28/2012 9:03:04 AM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: PowderMonkey
According to reports, they did not accost him.

He accosted them about their earsplitting sound system.

54 posted on 11/28/2012 9:03:04 AM PST by wideawake
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To: Arthurio

It wasn’t self-defense. It was a public service.


55 posted on 11/28/2012 9:23:46 AM PST by patriotsblood
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To: Zhang Fei

No argument from me ZF, but let me ask you something. Were you his legal representative, how would you be able to prove self defense? Sure, he may have seen a sudden movement that made him assume incorrectly, but is that a cogent defense? With the lack of a weapon, and his exit from the scene without reporting the incident to the authorities, I really wouldn’t want to be him. I honestly do not see any way he’d get away with this, and that is without the media attention this case is getting. This is a man in serious need of Alladin’s genie, and even then it may not be sufficient.


56 posted on 11/28/2012 9:26:05 AM PST by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: Arthurio

The bigger problem here is that Dunn used a pistol when that situation most properly called for the deployment of a fragmentation device.


57 posted on 11/28/2012 9:26:25 AM PST by MeganC (Our forefathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: PowderMonkey

What did you survive? Some guy addressing you from his car?


58 posted on 11/28/2012 10:01:43 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12
Article from an hour ago has shooter claiming that he opened fire when youths threatened him with a shotgun.
59 posted on 11/28/2012 10:06:27 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: marktwain
Dunn had a lot to consider. There was no body or vehicle to even show that there was a shooting. If he involves the police, he is likely to miss his son's wedding.

Get real. This isn't a cheesy 1970s made for TV movie.

60 posted on 11/28/2012 10:12:54 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: Musket

I can go out in my front yard and rev up an old Homelite SuperXL chainsaw and as long as the doors and windows are all closed you could sit inside and hardly be aware of it yet we occasionally have one of these DISRESPECTFUL ^&*(_ to come driving by a quarter mile away and I can feel the vibrations in my chair, it makes you wonder just what kind of noise it might be until you stop and think.
This kind of noise is part of a whole syndrome of wanting to attract attention by acting like a thug and wearing pants with the belt halfway to the knees is part of it also. Little do these clowns realize that real tough guys don’t need to act like an idiot to attract attention. They disgust me and some of them are actually palefaces trying to act like blacks. If they want to act like they are black why can’t they act like Alan West?


61 posted on 11/28/2012 10:18:05 AM PST by RipSawyer
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To: ansel12; Uncle Chip

“Gunning someone down at the quick stop and then fleeing the scene and spending the night in a motel, doesn’t help one to appear like a man with a clean case of self-defense.”

Apparently neither does staying around for the police (Zimmerman).


62 posted on 11/28/2012 10:18:47 AM PST by Hulka
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To: spetznaz

We’ll see what comes to light in the months ahead. A forensic team will comb the SUV for any evidence left unscrubbed and if he’s lucky, they’ll find something corroborating his claims. The smart thing to do would have been to call 911, but it’s clear that not everyone thinks straight after having been involved in a shooting.


63 posted on 11/28/2012 10:18:47 AM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: ansel12

Attempted robbery.


64 posted on 11/28/2012 10:20:47 AM PST by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: Hulka

What is your point in regards to this shooting, that the man was wise to flee the scene and the cameras that filmed it?


65 posted on 11/28/2012 10:27:07 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: PowderMonkey

You left out the description of the attempted robbery, how did it go, how did you get away, what weapons did they display, did they chase you?


66 posted on 11/28/2012 10:29:45 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12; Uncle Chip

Your post said fleeing hurt his case.

Zimmerman stayed and it didn’t matter—presumed guilty by you.

Stay and be damned by you.

Flee and be damned by you.

Can’t win with you.

End of discussion.

Bye.


67 posted on 11/28/2012 10:31:17 AM PST by Hulka
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To: Bratch
Gotta feed the narrative.

And the hoodie is a nice touch.

They couldn't find a picture of him without it??

Has Benjamin Crump held his news conference yet???

68 posted on 11/28/2012 10:35:53 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Hulka

Yeah, you are really on top of things.

To: Arthurio
Not everything is a “Trayvon Martin”, where the guy is leaped on and is on the ground fighting for his life, and is already bloody and battered as he desperately squeezes off a shot that saves his life.

It isn’t fair to Zimmerman and to extreme self-defense cases, to keep using this “Trayvon” thing so casually and as a catch phrase.
4 posted on Tue Nov 27 2012 22:33:00 GMT-0800 (Pacific Standard Time) by ansel12


69 posted on 11/28/2012 10:40:50 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: PapaBear3625
Lemonidis has said the teens drove off after Dunn fired at them, and he fired four shots as they left to “make sure they did not fire the shotgun.” She said the teens apparently got rid of the weapon before returning to the Gate station on Southside Boulevard.

He's going to have a problem.

70 posted on 11/28/2012 10:45:30 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: spetznaz; All

Here is some of Dunn’s side of the story coming out. Notice there are direct contradictions in the accounts.

This is becoming a he said/she said case. We will see who becomes more credible. Of course the black youths have a leg up because the black youths reported the shooting before he did.

It was a major mistake to not report it, but consider what the media has set up in the Trayvon Martin case. Zimmerman cooperated with the police from the start, yet he has been demonized. Dunn never knew if anyone had been hurt, until later, while Jordan’s friends had to come up with an explanation for his death. How long was it after the shooting that they reported the incident?

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-11-28/story/man-accused-killing-jacksonville-teen-charged-second-degree-murder


71 posted on 11/28/2012 10:56:23 AM PST by marktwain
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To: Hulka
Apparently neither does staying around for the police (Zimmerman).

Actually that worked in Zimmerman's favor as it gained him favor from law enforcement. Furthermore they were able to gather all the forensic evidence to validate his story which would not have been possible if he had fled.

This guy has none of that in his favor.

72 posted on 11/28/2012 10:56:38 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: marktwain
Here is a link to a Gannet story where Dunn’s girlfreind says that the SUV was gone from the convenience store when she came back outside.

So he has no corroborating witness.

73 posted on 11/28/2012 11:07:55 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

Shooting bullets into the city and neighborhoods at fleeing bad guys is one of my pet peeves, whether they are cops are non-cops.

There better be a darn good reason for shooting bullets into the rest of the people’s lives in the area.


74 posted on 11/28/2012 11:09:57 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: marktwain
“We are focused on Michael Dunn and protecting him and making sure that what has become a tragic situation does not become a media circus like another Florida case has, because this is totally different,” said Lemonidis, joined by Jacksonville attorney Mitch Stone as co-counsel. “... He was not a vigilante of any sort. He simply responded as he felt was necessary when he was threatened.”

Hey, Lemonidis, Zimmerman was not a vigilante and he did not flee the scene and he only fired his weapon once.

In the days to come you and Dunn will wish the facts fit the Zimmerman case.

75 posted on 11/28/2012 11:13:53 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip; All
So he has no corroborating witness.

The story is still developing. There may be video, there may be other witnesses. She collaborates that the losing parties in the encounter fled the scene as well (as you might expect).

We do not know much about both parties yet. Statistically, the scenario described by Dunn is much more common than the scenario that the friends of Jordan describe.

76 posted on 11/28/2012 11:15:00 AM PST by marktwain
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To: ansel12; All
Dunn had a lot to consider. There was no body or vehicle to even show that there was a shooting. If he involves the police, he is likely to miss his son's wedding.

Get real. This isn't a cheesy 1970s made for TV movie.

Most defensive uses of firearms are not reported to police, even most cases where shots are fired, which happen in about 5 percent of the cases.

77 posted on 11/28/2012 11:18:43 AM PST by marktwain
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To: wideawake; All
Further reports state that the police found no weapon in the car or near the scene, and that all the passengers in the SUV remained on the scene to make reports.

Where do you see this? I do not. It seems clear that the SUV left the scene, then came back to another area later. Did the driver of the SUV take Jordan to a hospital? This would seem to be the obvious thing to do.

78 posted on 11/28/2012 11:21:45 AM PST by marktwain
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To: Arthurio

Loud thumping noise that can heard three blocks away is a deliberate anti-social provocation. The culprits most often are black. Sometimes a car pulls along side mine at a light and is so loud that MY car rocks and vibrates. I certainly understand why it drove the shooter nuts. My house is constantly rattled by thugs driving down the boulevard behind my house; I resent the hell out of it. The law does nothing to stop it. A few more nationally publicized shootings might drive home a point to some of those cretins.


79 posted on 11/28/2012 11:22:48 AM PST by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: Musket

“I’ve been waiting for this to happen. This is not merely loud music, This is WAY beyond that. It’s extreme low frequency vibration that carries for blocks. “

That’s the truth. A lot of these kids are gonna be stone deaf before they get much older. Good thing they’ll have Obamacare. /s


80 posted on 11/28/2012 11:23:13 AM PST by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
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To: marktwain
Get real, this is a middle aged business executive shooting up a car while he is in front of a convenience store and killing someone, and then shooting at the car as it drove off.

Don't try to tell us that normal people merely get the girlfriend in the car and then go to a motel room, and hope that the cameras and witnesses didn't get our information.

81 posted on 11/28/2012 11:32:51 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: marktwain

Is Dunn claiming that the shotgun was fired at him???


82 posted on 11/28/2012 11:34:38 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: ansel12; All
Get real, this is a middle aged business executive shooting up a car while he is in front of a convenience store and killing someone, and then shooting at the car as it drove off.

Or, this is a middle aged business executive responding to a shotgun pointed at him and emptying the magazine to stop the threat as the SUV rockets away.

Yes, he made a mistake, a big one, in not calling the police to the scene. But, how many people here on FR make stupid comments about shoot, shovel, and shut up? People are not always thinking the clearest after a deadly force encounter.

You assume that he knew that he had hit and killed someone, but there is no reason to believe that he knew that he even hit anyone.

83 posted on 11/28/2012 11:42:10 AM PST by marktwain
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To: Uncle Chip
Is Dunn claiming that the shotgun was fired at him???

Not that I have seen.

84 posted on 11/28/2012 11:43:18 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Well we know for a fact that he shot and killed someone, but we don’t know for a fact that a shotgun was pointed at him.


85 posted on 11/28/2012 11:47:14 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: marktwain

Why play the internet weirdo and start working on a long imaginative narrative about a shooting that you don’t know about yet, but are determined to try and pretend that what little we do know isn’t real, while your narratives are?

So far, the facts are that this guy killed a man, fired shots at a fleeing car, and then got his girlfriend and fled to a motel.

This guy is in some serious trouble.


86 posted on 11/28/2012 11:48:06 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: sakic
You were waiting for someone to shoot 8 bullets at people who had no guns because their music was too loud?

I don't condone what happened, I'm just saying I knew eventually something like this would happen.

For this is not merely loud music. It's torture. This is ultra low frequency vibration that carries for blocks, goes through walls and into your house and rattles you in your chair, wakes up you up if you're sleeping and scares small children and grandmothers. Until recently I had neighbors who would wake me up 5-7-10-12 times a day with these car subwoofers. They need to be banned. We banned Glasspacks and Engine Brakes and they both are nowhere's near as loud, far-reaching and pervasive as these subwoofers.

I, having tinnitus, am very sensitive to this. I have gone up to drivers and asked them to please turn it off and was met with a hearty "F-U!" and "Mind your own F-ing business". I said "Pal, you've made this my business" and stared at him like I was a crazy man.

I just walked away thinking to myself - somebody is going to get hurt over this some day. Well, it happened.

87 posted on 11/28/2012 11:54:03 AM PST by Musket (It's very simple:<i>your quoted text pasted here</i><p> produces Quoted Italic with paragraph break)
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To: TexasRepublic
A few more nationally publicized shootings might drive home a point to some of those cretins.

Right. It's a shame that people will be hurt and possibly die because our elected officials are too timid to address the problem and ban the subwoofers.

88 posted on 11/28/2012 12:21:31 PM PST by Musket (It's very simple:<i>your quoted text pasted here</i><p> produces Quoted Italic with paragraph break)
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To: Arthurio

This is an outrageous article by CNN, someone needs to post it.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/28/us/florida-music-shooting/index.html


89 posted on 11/28/2012 12:36:29 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12
So apparently Dunn after he found out that someone in the vehicle died and they were looking for him, rather than drive to the police station and turn himself in, drove to his home in Brevard where he was arrested.

He is in trouble.

90 posted on 11/28/2012 1:01:45 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: ansel12; All
Why play the internet weirdo and start working on a long imaginative narrative about a shooting that you don’t know about yet, but are determined to try and pretend that what little we do know isn’t real, while your narratives are?

So far, the facts are that this guy killed a man, fired shots at a fleeing car, and then got his girlfriend and fled to a motel.

This guy is in some serious trouble.

I am no more portraying an imaginary scenario than you are. There are at least two sides to this account. You are accepting one side because it was presented first.

You could as easily say some people pointed a shotgun at a man who responded with lethal force. They fled the scene and then concocted a story for the police. That is what the other side is saying. Should we believe one side over the other, because the side that lost the encounter went to the police first?

I agree, we do not know much about it yet, but you are certainly accepting a version of it. I am saying that there is at least one alternate version.

91 posted on 11/28/2012 1:11:30 PM PST by marktwain
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To: Uncle Chip
So apparently Dunn after he found out that someone in the vehicle died and they were looking for him, rather than drive to the police station and turn himself in, drove to his home in Brevard where he was arrested.

He is in trouble.

I absolutely agree with you. He is in serious, big time, trouble. He should have called the police from the convenience store.

92 posted on 11/28/2012 1:16:46 PM PST by marktwain
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To: ansel12

Dunn said he saw the barrel of the gun and then reached into his glove compartment and then had to take the time to load his weapon. That’s going to be a problem.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/Lawyer-Murder-suspect-saw-shotgun-in-teens-SUV/-/475880/17566116/-/ku79pw/-/index.html


93 posted on 11/28/2012 1:19:03 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: marktwain

Don’t play that game, you are making up an imaginary narrative of events, not me.

What I posted seem to be the accepted basic outline of the story so far.

“”So far, the facts are that this guy killed a man, fired shots at a fleeing car, and then got his girlfriend and fled to a motel.””


94 posted on 11/28/2012 1:27:42 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: marktwain
He should have called the police from the convenience store.

That's is correct, actually the clerk that they bought the wine from had probably already called the police, the shooter should have waited for them.

95 posted on 11/28/2012 1:30:35 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: Scoutmaster

Ping


96 posted on 11/28/2012 1:32:31 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Venturer
I have found that Bluegrass music played back at them is a bit like shoving a ice pick in their ears.LMAO

Back when I was a youngster, I played bass. I had a station wagon. I had the use of a MASSIVE speaker for the bass, it was just easier to leave the thing in the car than to lug it into and out of the house. I had to fold the back seat flat to accommodate it. It was almost the size of a twin bed. I bought a decent amplifier and equalizer for it, and found that it delivered wonderful tone quality when played at a reasonable volume, which I preferred. Reasonable to me at that age meant that you could have a normal conversation in the car while it was playing.

One day I rolled up to a red light while passing through a sketchy neighborhood, and some nasty thug rolled up next to me with his crap blaring out the windows, giving 'you want a piece of me?' looks at everyone who appeared not to like it.

I put on Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, and turned it up to the point where it was practically shaking the bolts loose in my car. He looked like somebody's grandmother had just decked him with a right hook. Even pedestrians were laughing.

It had the same effect on me as a day at the range without hearing protection would have, so I never did it again. Funny as hell, though.

97 posted on 11/28/2012 4:57:29 PM PST by Riley (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)
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To: Uncle Chip; All

The link that you posted does not say what you typed.

Uncle Chip typed:

“Dunn said he saw the barrel of the gun and then reached into his glove compartment and then had to take the time to load his weapon. That’s going to be a problem.”

Here is what was at the link:

“Absolutely he was threatened. He was threatened,” Dunn’s attorney, Robin Lemonidis, said. “With a firearm. Mr. Dunn is very, very familiar with firearms. He is an avid firearms owner. Has a concealed weapons permit. Had his firearm properly secured and encased in his glove compartment, no rounds in the chamber, and when he started hearing epithets, and I don’t think I should say them here, in polite company, epithets that were extraordinarily threatening to him.”

She went on to say what her client told her he heard the teens say.

“Uh, ‘Kill that mother (expletive),’ ‘That mother (expletive) is dead,’ ‘You dead (expletive),’” Lemonidis said of what Dunn heard from the teens. “And he sees that much of a shotgun coming up over the rim of the SUV, which is up higher than his Jetta, and all he sees are heavily tinted front windows that are up and the back windows that are down, and the car has at least four black men in it, and he doesn’t know how old anyone is, and he doesn’t know anything, but he knows a shotgun when he sees one because he got his first gun as a gift from his grandparents when he was in third grade.”

Jacksonville police said Monday there was no gun found in the victim’s vehicle.

“I humbly suggest that they may not have looked hard enough, and it certainly would not have been in the vehicle when they looked unless they had stopped it immediately, which I doubt they did,” Lemonidis said.


98 posted on 11/28/2012 5:27:36 PM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

<>The link that you posted does not say what you typed.<>

Oh Really!!!!

Did you fail to click on the little black box there with arrow in the middle with the word “PLAY” in it. Do that and the talking torsos will come up. Fast forward to 7:20 mark and listen to the federal prosecuting attorney.

He says that per Dunn’s own words, he reached into the glove box, gets the gun, loads the gun, and uses the gun. It doesn’t meet the requirements of being in imminent fear of death. He could just as easily backed his car up and driven away.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/Lawyer-Murder-suspect-saw-shotgun-in-teens-SUV/-/475880/17566116/-/ku79pw/-/index.html

He dunn got big problems and his lawyer knows it. That’s why she is babbling nonsensically saying stuff like this:

“but he knows a shotgun when he sees one because he got his first gun as a gift from his grandparents when he was in third grade.”

Please ————


99 posted on 11/28/2012 7:13:06 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Arthurio; All

Here, both sides of the story are presented, in the New York Times, no less! I think it took them much longer to present Zimmerman’s side of events, but, that was before the election.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2963945/posts


100 posted on 11/29/2012 12:56:36 AM PST by marktwain
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