Posted on 11/28/2012 12:20:34 PM PST by GlockThe Vote
"You know it's going to be boring, but you just don't appreciate how boring it actually is," one first-year associate at a large New York law firm tells us.
The young lawyer describes long days of reading dense papers, which he only barely understands, and which seem to have no bearing on any actual case.
"Doc review is the most boring experience of your life, but strangely nerve-wracking because you know you're messing it up, but you just can't bring yourself to care that you're messing it up. And you're probably going to mess it up even if you did care, so [screw] it, why even bother," he says.
This is why Biglaw is often described as "soul crushing" and why even as many lawyers struggle to get jobs one recent grad is complaining about the one he has.
(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...
The kid is cut out for congress.
I hear what you’re saying. My son, fresh out of college, could only get a job putting tires on cars at Tire Barn. Dirty, exhausting work. But it was that or nothing. After nine months, he landed a job at a heating & cooling supply warehouse, and in February he will replace the shipping manager. I’m convinced he got the job because he proved that even with a college degree, he’s willing to get his hands dirty. And he also proved he’s dependable, competent and reliable. So his career is progressing.
That’s how it’s supposed to go. At Big Law, however, it appears that the dirty work is an end to itself, and it’s a deliberate plan to burn out and replace these young entry level attorneys. They are being used and discarded.
The problem you run into in big law is that everybody above you in the food chain has proven to be skilled in dissecting language and redefining simple words to mean something else. So they’ve carefully crafted a system to keep them up and others down. But there’s still a path, even if it lead out the door to private practice. The key is don’t actually get burned out, people discard themselves.
True
Office Space
The Firm
The Verdict.
Soul crushing, ruined social lives, boring work, doing the grunt stuff, while the full partners make the big bucks.
The young lawyer describes long days of reading dense papers, which he only barely understands, and which seem to have no bearing on any actual case.Excuse me - Isn't part of the training to become a lawyer supposed to teach them how to fully understand dense papers?
My wife’s office was in the same building as a guy like that until last year. You could really tell when that guy’s clientele were on the elevator with you. They were the ones who looked like they had no business being in an upscale hi-rise office building.
Yeah they do, and not just on law degrees.
We were interviewing for a marketing/web content type person about 3 years ago. Pretty entry-level kind of role, paid between 30-35K right out of college.
We had a fresh grad come in to interview and she told us according to her school counselors, people in these kind of roles should be making 60-65K. We told her only after they have years of experience and if she expected that sort of salary as a fresh grad, they were talking about someewhere other than Houston, TX.
She was good, I'll give her that, but we passed on her, she would have been forever looking for that 60-65K position and would have left us in a heartbeat.
What these large firms get away with is ridiculous, but i blame the clients for permitting it.
Many mid level and smaller firms would give double the service at half the cost and get better outcomes if givin the chance.
Yup. I work for myself and cant imagine being in one of those sweat shops.
Been practicing for 20 years. Started out in a 3 lawyer shop, worked for a big firm, and now am with a mid-size (for my area) firm of 20 lawyers. When I started out, I took a paycut from my last paralegal position, which sucked, but because it was a small firm, I got to do a little of everything and figure out what I wanted to do. Made a couple lateral moves, the second to a 150 lawyer firm where I moved up the ranks and made lots of money, except when you broke it down to an hourly rate. I routinely billed over 200 hrs a month. Real time, no padding. I had one month where I billed 328 hours followed by a 283 hour month. 600 hours in just two months. I was never home. I was not happy. My wife used the opportunity to, um, “explore other options”, if you know what I mean. It just wasn’t worth it.
I am with a smaller firm now. I make good money, enough to be be happy, but I get into the office around 8:45 and leave at 5:30 almost every day, with few weekends working. My life is mine. I do mostly corporate/M&A and enjoy my job and enjoy my life with my new wife, and our two boys (and my daughter from the fisrt marriage).
I tell kids coming out of school to pass on the big firms and go to work for a smaller firm. That way, they get actual experience, work with clients, even go to court, as opposed to their friends who go to the big firms and get big bucks, but bill over 200 hrs a month, buried in paper or in the library with no client contact, no real work experience and no chance to really learn how to practice law. In the big firms, they do a partnership track review around the 3rd year. If you’ve kissed enough ass and get in with the right partners, you may be on the partnership track. If not, you will likely find yourself on the street with no income and a lifestyle dependent on an income of $125k a year... We get this 3rd year associates applying for a job... looking for $125 or 130K and they have no real legal experience. They can’t draft a pleading or a contract, they’ve never done any real work. We tell them (as do others) that they are essentially first years and that the market for them is about half (or less) than what they are asking... but they bought the big house and the mercedes and they need the big bucks to pay the bills (along with their $150K in student loans). Its sad what happens to these kids. Many end up losing everything, including spouses.
Its not a glamorous life... the life of a young associate in a big firm just plain sucks. Many turn to drugs or alcohol. It truly sucks the life out of you.
I started out in two little ridiculous offices before creating my own little situation. No training nothing.
Learned EVERYTHING almost on my own and by screwing up.
Now 10 years later - I handle everything, litigation, closings, liens, but the construction lit and debt collection for subs is really what keeps me going.
Also no mention of the ultimate lawyer Test! Keep in mind that this was written in 6/11/2001, or at least that's the date on my file for it.
Name the Law School drop-out
Patrick Henry: Tried 1,100 cases from age 19—31 ... Governor of the State of Virginia.
John Jay & John Marshall: Two of the most famous Supreme Court Justices at the foundation of the Republic.
Daniel Webster: Sec. of State. 1840-1842, son of Noah Webster the organizer of the first American Dictionary. A litigator so feared that other lawyer’s would withdraw rather than face Daniel Webster in court.
Abraham Lincoln & Steven F. Douglas: Remember the Lincoln / Douglas debates... Lincoln spoke for 90 minutes. Douglas rebutted for three hours...... image a politician today, saying anything cogent for 9 minute's.
Salman P. Chase: Sec. of State or Treasure during Abraham Lincoln Civil War administration.
Clarence Darrow: Chicago Attorney, The name most closely associated with the aggressive defense of the disenfranchised and the dispossessed.
Robert Morley: The head of the American Bar Association 1953-54.
Senator Strom Thurman: (Remember this article is from 2001, and Strom was very much alive) Who apparently was at the constitutional convention he’s been around so long. Is still a Licensed member of the South Carolina Bar Association.
Answer is Clarence Darrow.
(None of the other’s went to a law school)
Now you sir; would you prefer to have your rights defended by the likes of Patrick Henry or Clarence Darrow, or would you prefer a public government schooled trained attorney like Richard Nixon, H.R. Hallderman or John Mitchell or even impeached William Jefferson Bly Clinton./font color
Different times, different national charachter.
if it weren’t for lawyers, we wouldn’t need lawyers
Everyone hates lawyers until you need one.
That's when you learn to hate them even more. like I said, if it weren't for lawyers, we wouldn't need lawyers. I also love how lawyers talk about billable hours. Most people get paid based on production and what they actually accomplish. Lawyers expect to get paid for hours, productive / useful, or not.
There is no easy way to do it since there are so many variables out of our control when it comes to litigation.
Many things are flat fee like will, closing, DWI or traffic matter, etc.
Most of my work is on contingency.
That reminds me of the joke about the young lawyer who died and was arguing with the devil about he was too young to die. The devil says, "Well, it shows here on my list you're 87 years old." The lawyer replies, "Whoa, I'm only 42. Where did you get the idea I was 87 years old?"
The devil replied, "We added up your billable hours."
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