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Poland against new UN internet 'censorship threat'
The News PL ^ | November 27 2012

Posted on 11/28/2012 1:21:18 PM PST by knighthawk

Poland is to oppose a UN agency proposal to renegotiate an international internet treaty which critics say would threaten freedom of expression on the web.

The UN International Telecommunication Union (ITU) is to meet behind closed doors in Dubai between 3 and 14 December, where 193 countries are being asked to agree a new information and communications International Telecommunication Regulations (ITR) treaty, which would change the way domain names are monitored and IP addresses are assigned.

The effect of the new treaty would be to take away the domain name system and other technical specifications, currently run by organisations in the US, and give them to a new international body.

The Polish government has said, however, that it will oppose the changes to the treaty.

(Excerpt) Read more at thenews.pl ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1stamendment; firstamendment; freedomofspeech; internet; poland; speech; un

1 posted on 11/28/2012 1:21:29 PM PST by knighthawk
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To: MizSterious; Nix 2; green lantern; BeOSUser; Brad's Gramma; dreadme; Turk2; keri; ...

Ping


2 posted on 11/28/2012 1:22:08 PM PST by knighthawk (We will always remember We will always be proud We will always be prepared so we may always be free)
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To: knighthawk

How about a little ‘solidarity’ with that!


3 posted on 11/28/2012 1:22:49 PM PST by SMARTY ("The man who has no inner-life is a slave to his surroundings. "Henri Frederic Amiel)
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To: knighthawk

The Poles know and understand what is like to be “under someone’s thumb” and they don’t like it.


4 posted on 11/28/2012 1:24:28 PM PST by The Sons of Liberty ( Fast and Furious , Benghazi - What's 0bama's current body count?)
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To: The Sons of Liberty

Michael Medved read an article by a Polish writer who expressed alarm that the Polish people see America drifting toward Socialism. They are truly alarmed.


5 posted on 11/28/2012 1:29:35 PM PST by righttackle44 (Take scalps. Leave the bodies as a warning.)
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To: righttackle44
Michael Medved read an article by a Polish writer who expressed alarm that the Polish people see America drifting toward Socialism. They are truly alarmed.

Yep... 47.5% of Americans are, too. Unfortunately, 51% are diggin' it.

6 posted on 11/28/2012 1:34:07 PM PST by ScottinVA (I've never been more disgusted with American voters.)
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To: knighthawk

—Google has launched a ‘Take Action’ web site, which invites internet users to sign a petition against the proposed changes in the UN ITU treaty.
“Some proposals could permit governments to censor legitimate speech - or even allow them to cut off internet access,” Google claims.
“Other proposals would require services like YouTube, Facebook, and Skype to pay new tolls in order to reach people across borders. —

They may be right, but I hate google anyway! Just a spy agency!


7 posted on 11/28/2012 1:34:07 PM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: righttackle44

Muslims will get Blasphemy laws ,internet style


8 posted on 11/28/2012 1:35:56 PM PST by molson209
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To: righttackle44
...the Polish people see America drifting toward Socialism. They are truly alarmed.

They are correct, except with 0bama at the wheel, we aren't drifting but driving "pedal to the metal" toward socialism!

9 posted on 11/28/2012 1:37:59 PM PST by The Sons of Liberty ( Fast and Furious , Benghazi - What's 0bama's current body count?)
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To: The Sons of Liberty

They seem to enjoy being under the EU’s thumb.


10 posted on 11/28/2012 1:42:03 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Just as much as we enjoy hosting the U.N.!


11 posted on 11/28/2012 1:45:44 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: righttackle44

And under the EU, Poland’s not drifting back towards socialism?

Hard to get news without the clutter anymore.


12 posted on 11/28/2012 1:46:30 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Revolting cat!
What’s sad is that it is pretty much the same thing no matter what. The EU’s constitution/treaties all say that all that they do is with “respect for the principles of the United Nations charter” (Article 3 section 5 TEU, Treaty of Lisbon). The UN is a monster that should have died back in 1947, never mind the EU.
13 posted on 11/28/2012 1:49:56 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: The Sons of Liberty

Poland has really come a long way as a nation. From a Jew hating oppressive state prior to and during the Nazi years, and a freedom crushing state under the Russians, to a pro-life pro-free speech pro-capitalist nation it is now.


14 posted on 11/28/2012 2:11:12 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Sam Gamgee
Poland has really come a long way as a nation. From a Jew hating oppressive state prior to and during the Nazi years, and a freedom crushing state under the Russians, to a pro-life pro-free speech pro-capitalist nation it is now.

I can't agree with you, Poland has been a place where people of different believes found their refugee for hundreds of years. Please read this:
"From the beginning of its statehood, different religion coexisted in Poland. In the 16th and 17th centuries, Poland was famous for its unique religious tolerance reasserted by the Statute of Kalisz (1264) and the Warsaw Confederation (1573)."
15 posted on 11/29/2012 12:24:27 AM PST by Verdelet (Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori!)
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To: Sam Gamgee; Verdelet
Sam -- you're talking through your hat. I live in Poland and have history as a hobby -- I'm not Polish nor of Polish origin (my wife is) and your statements are completely wrong to anyone who has read any amount of history

Do you know that Jews were invited to live in Poland by the kings when they were thrown out of England and Germany and Spain? And that they, forget about being persecuted, got rights as equals and these were safeguarded by the kings?

Do you know that Jews in the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth (1389-1793) were pretty much governing themselves and lived in peace -- in the late 1700s they comprised nearly 80% of world Jewry.

Do you know that the Hebrew joke was for 'polonia' (Poland in Latin) to be read as poh-lan-ya (God rests here). In the words osponsa No. 73 of the great Kraków rabbi Moses Isserles 'Remuh' (1510-72): "It is better to live on dry bread, but in peace, in Poland.">

do you know that the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth (from 1389 to 1793) was religiously tolerant? The Poles were Catholics, but Orthodox Ruthenians, Armenian Orthodox, Jews, Unitarians (Polish Brethern), Calvinists and Lutherans as well as Moslem Tartars were free to live,govern themselves and were unmolested and free to practise their religion?

Where do you get this "Jew hating" idea from? Do you know that the largest number of people in Israel's Yad Vashem for "righteous among the gentiles" are Poles?

Do you know that the Nazis considered Polish Gentiles the second race to be exterminated after Jews? And did you know that only in Nazi occupied Poland, if anyone was caught harboring, or even giving a Jew food, they would be sentenced to death with their family? And yet, even then, many Jews were helped?

"Jew hating" -- that's among the most ignorant statements I've heard so far -- to call a nation that was almost a land for Jews (80%) "Jew hating" is ignorant to say the least

16 posted on 11/29/2012 4:22:27 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Sam Gamgee; Verdelet
"freedom crushing state under the Russians" is somewhat correct

Yet, under the first occupation by the Russians (from 1772 to 1918 -- and from 1793 to 1918 poland was wiped off the map, torn into 3 parts by Russia, Prussia and Austria and the partitioning powers had a pact to not even mention the name of Poland) -- during that first occupation, they had 5 uprisings in which Poles, Jews, Lithuanians and Ruthenians participated to recreate the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth -- they were not part of any "freedom crushing state"

Under the second Russian, Soviet occupation, communism never sat well on Poland -- Stalin famously said that "communism in Poland is like putting a saddle on a cow" -- it barely worked and this was because the Soviets didn't try to collectivize the farms (as they did in the USSR and Czechia etc.) and allowed some private businesses after Stalin died

The communist government there did join the rest of the USSR's satellites in crushing the Hungarian spring in '56, but the communists had no real support -- trying to implement an atheistic and globalistic ideology on the Poles who had been denied statehood for 150 years was impossible

17 posted on 11/29/2012 4:27:41 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Verdelet

correct about the religious tolerance — while Germania had the 30 years war, Protestants and Catholics were living together in Poland-Lithuania


18 posted on 11/29/2012 4:29:51 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Verdelet

I was under the impression that in the early years of the immigration to Palestine, many Jews came from Poland because of prejudice they found there?


19 posted on 11/29/2012 11:08:10 AM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Cronos
I am more than willing to stand corrected and I hope what you say is true. I got the impression that Jews were basically left to their own devices during the resistance against the Nazis because Polish freedom fighters didn't want Jews in their ranks. Also that Jews fled Poland to Palestine in the early 1900s because of persecution in Poland?
20 posted on 11/29/2012 11:11:26 AM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Cronos

I suppose it is hard sometimes to distinguish between the actions of the state of Poland and its people. For instance under the Soviet umbrella, Poland, in the UN assembly usually opposed measures by the US and Israel.

And now Poland is a staunch US ally. It makes you wonder what changed?


21 posted on 11/29/2012 11:15:10 AM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Sam Gamgee

The Communist government in Poland was pretty hard on Jews, they drove most of the remaining Jews out of Poland in 1968, under the guise of an “anti-Zionist” purge, following the 1967 Six-Day War.

Today, Poland is Israel’s staunchest ally in Europe. There is a new Museum in Warsaw which is dedicated to the history of Polish Jews, so the new generation is learning of the legacy of Jews in Poland.


22 posted on 11/29/2012 11:19:43 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
I guess the point perhaps is that is was the GOVERNMENT not necessarily the sentiment of Polish people that caused the driving out?

I understand part of the reason Jews are friends of the left is they credit communism where it rescued Jews from the Nazis (such as happened in Hungary) but ignore the purges that came after?

23 posted on 11/29/2012 11:25:56 AM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Sam Gamgee
I got the impression that Jews were basically left to their own devices during the resistance against the Nazis because Polish freedom fighters didn't want Jews in their ranks -- not really: the Armie Krajowa (the polish underground army -- and remember Poland was the only nation conquered by the Nazis that never surrendered officially and didn't collaborate at a national level -- the reason is also because the GErmans wanted to destroy the Polish nation -- whether Jewish Poles or Christian Poles)

Anyway the AK had a section for Jewish affairs -- the head of which, Henryk Wolinski is in teh Yad Vashem

These provided information about Jewish ghetto formations, slave camps, movements to Treblinka to the US and UK's government and mass media -- but this was ignored by the governments and mass media

Have you heard of Jan Karski or Witold Pilecki? Witold broke INTO Auschwitz and gathered information on the atrocities there -- and Jan took this to Churchill and FDR who ignored him

The Jewish Combat Organization ( Żydowska Organizacja Bojowa) received some weapons from the AK and the AK units tried twice to blow up the ghetto wall and one unit under Henry Iwanski fought alongside the ZOB Jewish unit

I've read Leon Uris' Mila 18 too and that was my first book on Poland -- years before I met my wife and years more before I moved here and learnt about the history around this --> he brings up a view of an American Jew who didn't see the situation on the ground -- Szpilman (the Pianist) gave a different perspective

Leon Uris doesn't point out that the AK didn't have a great stack of weaponry -- they didn't get much weaponry from the WEst and none from the Soviets (who viewed the anti-communist AK as the enemy alongside the Nazis). Note what happened in the Warsaw Uprising a year after the ghetto uprising -- the Germans were retreating and the AK rose up to throw them out. But they couldn't -- their weapons etc. were not enough and 70% of warsaw was razed to the ground (yes, the city is completely rebuilt)

24 posted on 11/29/2012 8:53:53 PM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Sam Gamgee
I got the impression that Jews were basically left to their own devices during the resistance against the Nazis because Polish freedom fighters didn't want Jews in their ranks -- Also the problem with this is that we need to read the other conflicts around this -- do read Adam Zamoyski's "Battle of Warsaw 1920" --> in 1920 the Soviets tried to conquer Poland and were beaten back. Poland hated the communists as much as they hated the nazis and the communists realized that Polish nationalism was a block to them

The ZOB was leftist-leaning (not communist) which affected relations with that organization -- but there were still weapons supplied by the AK to ZOB.

There were also many Jews in the Polish Resistance: MArek Edelman, Henryk Chmielewski, Shlomo Aronson, Szmul Zygielbojm , Julian Aleksandrowicz

25 posted on 11/29/2012 8:58:04 PM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Sam Gamgee
Also that Jews fled Poland to Palestine in the early 1900s because of persecution in Poland?

Ok, one needs to understand the history -- in the early 1900s Poland didn't exist - it ceased to exist from 1793 to 11 Nov 1918

There was persecution in the Russian occupied parts of Poland and to some extent in the other two -- as I mentioned above

note the other BIG reason: the rise of nationalism since the French revolution --

in 1783 only 10% of France spoke what we call "French", the Russians were ambivalent about nationality (there was even a proposal to rename the country Petersland after Peter the great), the English had a number of dialects as well as Celtic languages etc. and Germany didn't exist

But in the 1800s nationalism arose and the Russians, French, Germans and English forced their minorities to conform -- the Russification of the Baltic Germans, Poles, Baltics, Finns etc. went forward - and the same in Germany and France and yes the UK (when Welsh was banned with Cornish etc)

Jews were also affected by this -- some assimilated to become Russian or Polish or German or etc. and some retreated to the old ways and some realized the need to move to Zion

the Russians persecuted the Jews just as they persecuted their other minorities to become Russian (NOTE though, the ordinary Russians had life almost as hard in any case)

But when Poland was recreated in 1918 there were many Jews who joined in this recreation

There was some violence against Jews, but no widespread one and this must be placed in the context that the entire lands of the Poles were invaded by 4 different armies in 5 years until 1920, was torn by fights between Poles, Soviets, Lithuanians, Ukrainians etc.

In fact the Jewish population rose to become 10% of the population

There was a National Party (NP) which had some anti-semitic views, but they had anti-minority views as well -- they wanted all to become Poles, and all the Poles to speak the same version of Polish - so they antagonized the Lithuanians, Belarussians, Germans and Ukrainians living in Poland as well as the Jews. But the minorities were 34% of the population and also the ND didn't have a majority support among Poles -- the Poles instead revered Josef Pilsudski, the guy who won Polish independence and who, of Lithuanian origin, believed in teh multi-cultural, mutli-ethnic, multi-religious character of the Old Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth.

26 posted on 11/29/2012 9:12:26 PM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Sam Gamgee
And now Poland is a staunch US ally. It makes you wonder what changed?

Well, communism fell and the Red army isn't at the gates of Poland, right?...

27 posted on 11/29/2012 9:13:09 PM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: dfwgator; Sam Gamgee
The Communist government in Poland was pretty hard on Jews, they drove most of the remaining Jews out of Poland in 1968, under the guise of an “anti-Zionist” purge, following the 1967 Six-Day War.

Well, yes and no -- in the years following the war they didn't do this. They had a visible % who were of Jewish origin (athiests by religion) and in the 60s, to divert people's attention they turned on Jews and Germans living in Poland

you know the old thing "ooh, ignore the problems caused by governmetn and look at these minorities who are the root of your problems"

28 posted on 11/29/2012 9:17:16 PM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Sam Gamgee; dfwgator
I understand part of the reason Jews are friends of the left is they credit communism where it rescued Jews from the Nazis (such as happened in Hungary) but ignore the purges that came after?

Again, it's wrong to blanket an entire group -- they are not "friends of the left" -- some are, definitely not all

Communism was a false god -- and I emphasise "god" as you had to reject your religion to join them

29 posted on 11/29/2012 9:20:30 PM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Sam Gamgee
I suppose it is hard sometimes to distinguish between the actions of the state of Poland and its people.

well, no, its not. For instance, did you know that the Obama regime actively targets countries that do not give "gay rights"?

30 posted on 11/30/2012 12:34:36 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Sam Gamgee; dfwgator

Sorry, to add to the above — Obama’s actions in no way signifies the actions of the US people.


31 posted on 11/30/2012 1:10:58 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos; Sam Gamgee; dfwgator
I'm sorry I can't reply to this topic as often as I would like to, but it's mostly due to time difference and workload I have;)

It's amazing how totalitarian regimes find it easy to target minorities and blame them for governments inadequacies.
Nazis did it, Commies did it, Sino-Commies did it, every muslim teocratic regime did it.
32 posted on 11/30/2012 2:34:19 AM PST by Verdelet (Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori!)
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To: Verdelet; Sam Gamgee; dfwgator
It's amazing how totalitarian regimes find it easy to target minorities and blame them for governments inadequacies.

It's not just totalitarian regimes. But in the case of communists it made logical sense as the system failed in the 50s as it is impossible to command run a complex economy

33 posted on 11/30/2012 3:40:39 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos

True it wasn’t always that way in the PRL....there were two main factions in the ruling Polish United Workers Party, one of which was known as the “Nationalist” wing, who were the more anti-semitic wing, which Bierut was able to keep in line to a degree. Once Gomulka took over, they gained the upper hand in the party, and in response to the growing protests that were taking place in the Universities there, and also to divert attention from the failing economy, they took it out on their “domestic enemies.” I think what happened in 1968 did more to poison future relations between gentile Poles and Jews than what happened during WWII.

One story about 1968 that wasn’t widely known was that Irena Sendler, threatened to once again harbor Jews, like she did during the war. In response, the Communists expelled her children from their universities.


34 posted on 11/30/2012 7:31:01 AM PST by dfwgator
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