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‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [$33,750 - $45,000 /yr]
CNBC ^ | Published: Thursday, 29 Nov 2012 | 11:24 AM ET | By: Mark Koba

Posted on 11/29/2012 11:31:01 AM PST by Red Badger

One of the key questions lurking in the "fiscal cliff" talks — though well below the public's radar — is what happens to the alternative minimum tax — or AMT.

Implemented in 1969 to make sure upper-income Americans pay their share of taxes, the AMT has increasingly snared more middle-income Americans over the years because it was never indexed for inflation.

During the 2011 tax year for example, the higher tax hit single taxpayers with incomes as low as $48,450 and joint filers making only $74,450.

But millions more Americans could be subject to the AMT in their 2012 returns if Congress fails to reach a deal on the fiscal cliff before year-end. That's because the AMT is currently scheduled to hit individuals making as little as $33,750 a year and joint filers making $45,000. (Read More: Complete Coverage of 'Fiscal Cliff')

"I call it AMT shock," Dick Hoey, chief economist at BNY Mellon, told CNBC recently.

"Normally some four million people pay the AMT," Hoey explained. "But if we don't fix this on the 2012 income, what's due in 2013 will be additional taxes by an extra 28 million households. If you're in the $75,000 to $300,000 income bracket, you can likely forget about a refund if they don't fix it."

The bite on American households would be huge and could have a big impact on US consumer spending—and the economic recovery. (Read More: Stocks Are Being 'Cliff'-Lashed)

"This would hit immediately and likely cost taxpayers an average of some $3,700 in taxes," said Leon C. LaBrecque, managing partner and founder of LJPR, LLC, a wealth management firm. "It would be a rude awakening to say the least."

Yet even if Congress resolves the fiscal cliff, more Americans could still end up seeing a huge tax increase under the AMT. That's because the tax itself is part of the negotiations over ways to boost government revenue. And Congress would need to act separately — putting in a so-called patch — to insure more people aren't subject to it because of inflation.

"It's hard to plan for the AMT with all the uncertainty," said Howard Kaplan, a CPA/PFS in Englewood, N.J. "People are dealing with possible capital-gain tax increases, they don't know what deductions may be gone and wondering if they should sell or keep stocks at the end of the year. The AMT is complex beast on its own and it's even more complex now without a patch and the 2000 year targets."

(Read More: Latest on the Fiscal Cliff Talks in Washington)

The AMT is essentially a parallel tax in that excludes certain deductions — like state and local income taxes — for people making a certain income level each year. That means taxpayers in AMT brackets have to figure out which tax is more, the AMT or regular taxes — and then pay the higher amount.

AMT rates currently range from 26 percent for singles to 28 percent for married.

To keep middle-income people from being unfairly hit by the AMT, Congress has enacted temporary relief during each of the past several years — so-called patches — that raises the income levels. But so far there is no patch for 2012.

The alarm bells over the patch — or lack of one — have reached the point where the acting commissioner of the IRS sent a letter to Congress this month saying the tax collection agency would need to tell some 60 million taxpayers that they may not file their 2012 tax returns or receive a refund until the IRS makes changes to its system (a patch) and that "they might not be able to file returns until late March of 2013."

The Bush-era tax cuts — set to expire at the end of the year as a part of the fiscal cliff — where a boon to some but actually pushed more people into the AMT, after they figured out which tax bill was higher.

More than half of AMT revenue in 2010 came from households with incomes over $200,000, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. But as AMT rates are not indexed to inflation, more upper middle incomes are hit by the tax than the targeted high end incomes.

"If you're income is high enough you get moved out of the AMT. It really effects the $300,000 to $500,000 income levels, and states like California and New Jersey where people can't deduct children or state income taxes," LaBrecque added.

As for what Congress and President Obama will do in the weeks ahead about the cliff and the AMT, that's a guessing game said LaBrecque.

"They could keep some of the Bush tax cuts and do a patch, not keep them and do a patch. Some people might not get hit by the AMT, some may. It's hard to make sense at this point," LaBrecque said.

Anyone looking for a permanent end to the AMT as part of a long term tax reform package, will be disappointed say analysts. The tax simply brings in too much revenue with no replacement in sight.

The original AMT collected just $122 million — about $700 million in today's dollars — which was just over one-tenth of one percent of all individual income tax revenue. Fast forward to the last tax year of record, 2010, and some $102 billion was collected.

Congressional Republicans have called for ending the AMT, while President Obama said on the campaign trail this past year, that he'd let it go and replace it with the so-called Buffett Tax, a higher tax rate on the very upper income levels.

Meanwhile, the Senate Finance Committee released a proposal on taxes this past August, calling for an increase in the AMT exemption amounts for 2012 to $50,600 (individuals) and $78,750 (married). The proposal would also increase the exemption amounts for 2013 to $51,150 (individuals) and $79,850 (married). But so far, it remains just a proposal.

For now, all taxpayers can do is look to some sort of patch and hope for the best, said Melody Juge, director of Life Income Management, a retirement management firm.

"These guys (Congress and the president) aren't that dumb that they wouldn't do a patch on this," Juge said. "I think they'll do the right thing on the AMT. But honestly, I think the best thing would be a flat tax, end deductions and get rid of the AMT once and for all."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: 1040; 112th; amt; fiscalcliff; irs; middleclass; tax; taxincrease
The Law of Unintended Consequences must be obeyed............
1 posted on 11/29/2012 11:31:05 AM PST by Red Badger
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To: Red Badger

Let it go into affect. REV II comes earlier than expected.


2 posted on 11/29/2012 11:34:06 AM PST by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
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To: Red Badger

Yeh, but we all know the good consequences will be attributed to the genius of The One and the negative consequences will be blamed on the GOP, Bush, a hurricane, bad hair day, etc. The media is so afraid of this administration,,they don’t dare bark out of turn.


3 posted on 11/29/2012 11:35:39 AM PST by austinaero
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To: Red Badger

I never plan for a refund and have always raised my withholdings by 1 if I get one. I was looking for that sweet spot where I don’t get a refund and only have to pay a small amount.

I moved my 401(k) to a Roth and got married this year. On top of that, with all the crap going on in DC, the wife and I are preparing for a perfect storm of taxmageddon. I’m preparing for a tax bill well in excess of $10,000.


4 posted on 11/29/2012 11:37:13 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: rarestia

WE always claim 9 .... and save enough to be able to pay what we might owe....NO WAY is the government going to use OUR money during the year...

EVERYONE should up their deductions to 9....


5 posted on 11/29/2012 11:40:48 AM PST by goodnesswins (R.I.P. Doherty, Smith, Stevens, Woods.)
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To: goodnesswins

Mine’s at 5 and I’ve seen my returns dwindle. This will be the first year in a while that I’m not a student, but my income also went up.

I wish they’d just do away with the current tax code, but I know that’s akin to wishing for a Skittle-shitting unicorn.


6 posted on 11/29/2012 11:46:26 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Red Badger
Is this a THREAT??? Bring it on....

If the SPENDING is not dealt with NOW, nothing else matters anyway. It will only get worse and continue on until the NEXT FISCAL CLIFF when once again we (as in the taxpayer) is at a CRISIS again.

In all my years of living, there has ALWAYS BEEN A CRISIS that WE need to FIX with OUR money. I can't remember a year without one. They simply can't get enough.

Destroy their CREDIT CARD TODAY. If they don't, we need a MAJOR PROTEST IN D.C.

7 posted on 11/29/2012 11:48:15 AM PST by annieokie
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To: rarestia

I do our taxes, and I don’t want Uncle Sam holding my money for a year, so we never get a refund. In fact, we pay withholding, but also I pay in a quarterly Estimated Income form, so I dole out (what I know we’ll owe at the end of the year) slowly to the gov’t., 4 times a year.

What does it get me in the end, nothing more than the satisfaction that they didn’t get our money ahead of schedule. Used to be some advantage to it when interest rates on savings were higher, but no advantage to it now that interest rates are so low...just satisfaction in knowing it’s in our possession until I absolutely have to pay :)

P.S. I pay it in quarterly to avoid penalties for not having paid in enough during the year.


8 posted on 11/29/2012 11:53:49 AM PST by memyselfandi59
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To: Red Badger
I use TurboTax to handle my taxes. If I trigger the AMT, it is usually because of my home mortgage interest or local property taxes inserted as deductions. Sometimes you are simply ahead to remove those deductions and recalculate. The money is gone already. It's a matter of optimizing the refund of excess I've already paid.

Rush has been discussing chatter about taking away the 401k deductions. That will ensure that I stop making those contributions and move the money accrued to a better place. The bastards always have their hands in your pockets.

9 posted on 11/29/2012 11:59:47 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: Red Badger

unintended consequences?

This was all agreed back in the day for the debt ceiling increase, right??


10 posted on 11/29/2012 12:01:34 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: rarestia

They may go after 401K’s AND IRA’s!!


11 posted on 11/29/2012 12:04:32 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Red Badger

I don’t calculate if I owe AMT, never have, never will. If the IRS want’s to do the work and determine I owe it and send me a bill, more power to them. But so far they haven’t...


12 posted on 11/29/2012 12:04:44 PM PST by apillar
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To: Red Badger

This was all foreseen and intended. There is no Unintended Consequences. Nothing that happens in politics is unintended or unforeseen. They wanted it this way.

They deliberately and intentionally, with full knowledge and awareness, refused to index this tax for inflation.

Note that the same bastards indexed their pay and pension for inflation.

It’s not incompetence. It’s deliberate.


13 posted on 11/29/2012 12:05:35 PM PST by I want the USA back (Fascism is wrong even when practiced by the government.)
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To: Red Badger

“Implemented in 1969 to make sure upper-income Americans pay their share of taxes, the AMT has increasingly snared more middle-income Americans over the years because it was never indexed for inflation.”

You can’t blame Pres. Bush for this one. This is the doing of the Democrat congress in 1996 playing the class warfare game, and now, with the shameful devaluing of the dollar by inflation over the decades, people making as little as
$33,750 are considered “rich” enough to pay this surcharge on “millionaires.”
Sound familiar? Obama’s class warfare/redistribution scam will gut the middle class just as Democrats have always done.


14 posted on 11/29/2012 12:07:15 PM PST by txrefugee
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To: Red Badger

Every year they put a temporary patch on it because they don’t really want to fix it.


15 posted on 11/29/2012 12:15:35 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Why is the government more concerned about protecting a microbe on Mars than an unborn baby here?)
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To: txrefugee

1969........not 1996......


16 posted on 11/29/2012 12:17:45 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: goodnesswins

Except there is a fine for both underpaying and overpaying on your W-4.


17 posted on 11/29/2012 12:17:45 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Why is the government more concerned about protecting a microbe on Mars than an unborn baby here?)
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To: annieokie

“We’ve always been at war with Eastasia, Winston”........


18 posted on 11/29/2012 12:20:45 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: GeronL

I expect them to. I moved to IRA to avoid the tax hit at retirement time, but since I’m 32, I was doing it anticipating that it won’t make a lick of difference anyway. I’ve got a job that pays me more than I expected to make, so the hit that comes in my taxes will likely be offset when I stop paying into my IRA after they confiscate it.

I just hope the market completely tanks and I lose everything in it before they think about taxing it. Let them pound sand.


19 posted on 11/29/2012 12:28:19 PM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Red Badger

I’m thinking that I picked a bad time to tile the kitchen.


20 posted on 11/29/2012 12:37:46 PM PST by Gator113 (**WHO in the hell gave the damn order to NOT rescue our men in Benghazi?**)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Well aware of the “fine”....but, you can plan so that you avoid it...you just have to have a good financial person thinking about it (which my husband is)


21 posted on 11/29/2012 12:37:46 PM PST by goodnesswins (R.I.P. Doherty, Smith, Stevens, Woods.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Should have added....planning by paying QUARTERLY Estimated taxes...


22 posted on 11/29/2012 12:41:27 PM PST by goodnesswins (R.I.P. Doherty, Smith, Stevens, Woods.)
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To: Red Badger

Good!!!! I got hit with the AMT once, it was very, very painful. I want the pain to be felt FAR and WIDE.


23 posted on 11/29/2012 12:41:27 PM PST by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: Red Badger

If only people making $33K a year WOULD pay some taxes.

Right now I think they are on the bubble for getting EITC.


24 posted on 11/29/2012 12:42:16 PM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: annieokie
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed - and hence clamorous to be led to safety - by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

-- H. L. Mencken

25 posted on 11/29/2012 12:43:29 PM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: apillar

It takes me about four hours to complete the stupid form. Not an easy task, especially after a few glasses of wine. I have screwed it up three times in the last few years and usually to my advantage, so they send me a larger refund.


26 posted on 11/29/2012 12:46:42 PM PST by crusty old prospector
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To: goodnesswins

Wish everyone had to pay their taxes quarterly. You would see a LOT of people crawling all over their congressmen to get the code changed and rates lowered.


27 posted on 11/29/2012 12:51:07 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Why is the government more concerned about protecting a microbe on Mars than an unborn baby here?)
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To: Red Badger
With apologies to John Ratzenberger...


28 posted on 11/29/2012 12:57:58 PM PST by SparkyBass
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To: pgyanke

in other words: Keep em occupied.......over there.


29 posted on 11/29/2012 1:03:36 PM PST by annieokie
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To: rarestia

Don’t be such a passive quitter!

Cant you get your IRA into something you can self-manage?

having some of your IRA in physical gold or silver will ensure you do not lose every paper dollar of it

after you stop funding your IRA think hard about some tangible investment you can buy and hold for the long term!
Even a doublewide parked on some arable land with underground water, owned free and clear


30 posted on 11/29/2012 1:17:56 PM PST by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: GeronL

They will.

To many people on SS and other forms of governmental assistance. The pile of money is to large.


31 posted on 11/29/2012 1:22:21 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

My plan:

move tax day to Oct 31st and eliminate withholding.

Make everyone write one big check right before election day.


32 posted on 11/29/2012 1:24:59 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Mouton

Let it go into affect. REV II comes earlier than expected.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Agreed. Its time to make POSHITUS pay.


33 posted on 11/29/2012 1:29:52 PM PST by Candor7 (Obama fascism article:(http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html))
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To: MrB

I have long advocated exactly that.


34 posted on 11/29/2012 2:02:11 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Why is the government more concerned about protecting a microbe on Mars than an unborn baby here?)
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To: Blood of Tyrants; All
Go here for more info from "Investment News" posted Monday...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2963306/posts

As usual FR is ahead of the curve....

35 posted on 11/29/2012 2:05:33 PM PST by taildragger (( Tighten the 5 point harness and brace for Impact Freepers, ya know it's coming..... ))
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To: taildragger; All
BTW....

I posted weeks ago what are your CPA's and Enrolled Agents doing? Are they Freaking? Mine are, they have been warning of all this for weeks.

Tomorrow I go see the a CPA friend who has taken a tax planning program and taken out the "Patch" to see if we are in AMT land this year if this all falls apart, I'll keep you posted....

This is all serious as a Heart Attack folks, I need to start another thread about CPA's etc and what they are experiencing and what they are recommending their clients to at least consider....

36 posted on 11/29/2012 2:09:40 PM PST by taildragger (( Tighten the 5 point harness and brace for Impact Freepers, ya know it's coming..... ))
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To: Red Badger
The funny and annoying thing about the AMT is that it is an alternate flat tax system. I guess the flat part is funny since an out front flat tax is controversial; the annoying part is that you have to go through the tax calculation twice, picking whichever is worse. What's more, insofar as there are tax incentives in the code to act/spend/invest one way or another, they are unclear--you don't know whether or not to act upon them, or whether they'll make no difference until you calcuate your tax both ways at the end of the year.

You don't have to be wealthy to be annoyed with this. Just be middle class and use TurboTax (or its equivalent) and you'll know what I mean.

37 posted on 11/29/2012 2:12:01 PM PST by Pearls Before Swine
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To: Pearls Before Swine

It seems totally ‘unfair’, in that if you calculate your taxes, using the government’s own laws and pay too little, then they say you have to pay more simply because you are obeying the laws.....They should just come out and say, “If you make this much, then you pay this much.” and be done with it, don’t beat around the ‘Bush”..............


38 posted on 11/29/2012 2:25:59 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: silverleaf

Unfortunately I’m a bit of a pessimist. I’m 32 and don’t believe I’ll live to see retirement. When the gun grabbers start going door-to-door, I’m of the ilk who will fire back and likely die in the fusillade. If that doesn’t happen, I don’t believe this nation will resemble anything we currently know as I get older. If I make it to retirement age and the world hasn’t completely shit the bed, I’ll either have nothing left in my accounts or will be so beat down that I don’t care.

I was preparing for pastoral formation at one point in my life and was contented with the idea of living a life of poverty, sacrifice, and worship. Now that I’m a successful engineer making a modest living, I have no debt and do not covet material possessions. If I lost everything tomorrow, I would not weep for my loss but be thankful for my life. Material possessions can be replaced.

As life becomes more difficult in this country, I’ll be spiritually prepared to fight for my liberty, and at this point, retirement is far off and something I pray to achieve but under which don’t plan to live a life of excess.


39 posted on 11/29/2012 4:38:51 PM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Red Badger
I wish I qualified for the AMT -- it would lower my taxes.

But yes, Washington creates tax laws then gets upset when people follow them and the rich don't pay enough. So they create a second tax system which doesn't solve the problem. And they're still upset when rich people still don't pay enough taxes. So they create a third tax system...

40 posted on 11/29/2012 6:34:56 PM PST by RagingBull (Talent does what it can; genius does what it must)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
"Wish everyone had to pay their taxes quarterly. You would see a LOT of people crawling all over their congressmen to get the code changed and rates lowered."

Ain't THAT the truth!!!

41 posted on 11/29/2012 7:05:36 PM PST by goodnesswins (R.I.P. Doherty, Smith, Stevens, Woods.)
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To: All


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42 posted on 11/29/2012 7:08:04 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: rarestia
well, you're going to hear this a lot but... I wish I was a healthy 32 year old engineer. The rest I would deal with as it comes.

From my perspective, the age ahead will be one to develop self .... physically, spiritually, and for practical means of being self sufficient. As an engineer you already have the golden talent of being able to figure out how to “fix” things. You can use that talent for yourself, and for others!

I suggest you start now to preserve some of your wealth while it is being provided by an employer- buy yourself at least a couple gold coins and a couple pounds of silver coins every year and set them aside in a safe place in your possession. (I like Eagles and Maple Leafs, and also started junk silver coin collections for my kids).

If nothing else, your grandkids will enjoy playing with them someday

If someone had bought me a gold coin and a pound of silver coins for my birthday every year - and I started buying some for myself when I was 32 - I might be posting this from Singapore!

43 posted on 11/30/2012 4:42:31 AM PST by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: silverleaf

I’d love to transfer some of my money to tangible assets, but I Don’t know where to go or where to start. Everyone’s out for their own interests, and I’m not learned enough in the business to understand or know where to get the best buys.

If you have suggestions, I’m open to listen. At this point I’m simply stockpiling lead, steel, and food.

And I thank you for your kind words. My wife calls me an “old soul.” I often feel much older than 32.


44 posted on 11/30/2012 5:50:32 PM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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