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Stirrings of Secession
Townhall.com ^ | November 30, 2012 | Pat Buchanan

Posted on 11/30/2012 11:57:37 AM PST by Kaslin

"When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another ..."

So begins the Declaration of Independence of the 13 colonies from the king and country to which they had given allegiance since the settlers first came to Jamestown and Plymouth Rock.

The declaration was signed by 56 angry old white guys who had had enough of what the Cousins were doing to them. In seceding from the mother country, these patriots put their lives, fortunes and honor on the line.

Four score and five years later, 11 states invoked the same right "to dissolve the political bands" of the Union and form a new nation. After 620,000 had perished, the issue of a state's right to secede was settled at Appomattox. If that right had existed, it no longer did.

What are we to make, then, of petitions from 25,000 citizens of each of seven Southern states -- 116,000 from Texas alone -- to secede?

While no one takes this movement as seriously as men took secession in 1861, the sentiments behind it ought not to be minimized. For they bespeak a bristling hostility to the federal government and a dislike bordering on detestation of some Americans for other Americans, as deep as it was on the day Beauregard's guns fired on Fort Sumter.

Our Pledge of Allegiance still speaks of "one nation under God, indivisible," but that is far from the reality in the America of 2012.

The social, cultural, moral and political revolutions of the 1960s, against which Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan inveighed to win their 49-state triumphs, have now captured half of the country.

One America believes our history is a catalog of crimes against people of color, that women have an inviolable right to abortions, that condoms should be handed out to sexually active teens in schools where Darwinism should be taught as revealed truth, while Bibles, prayers and religious symbols should be permanently expelled.

The other America sees all this as unpatriotic, godless and decadent.

One America believes in equality of rights; the other demands equality of results brought about through the redistribution of income and wealth, affirmative action, racial and gender set-asides, and quotas.

One America believes in gun control; the other in gun rights.

Now that Christmas and Easter have been expunged from public schools and the public square and the popular culture has been thoroughly de-Christianized, we Americans seem to have but one holy day of obligation that brings us all together: Super Bowl Sunday.

Where one America divinizes diversity, the other seeks out our lost unity and community. Half the country pays no federal income taxes, but half depends on federal benefits.

The occasions when we come together as one, as after 9/11 and during natural disasters such as Katrina and Sandy, seem few and farther between, and the resurrected unity rarely lasts.

Could today's America come together to build an interstate highway system or send astronauts to the moon, as we did just seven years after John Glenn first orbited the Earth?

Environmentalists would have killed Ike's highway system and the Hoover and Grand Coulee dams, as today they seek to stop the fracking for oil and natural gas and block the Keystone XL pipeline.

As for states seceding, however, is that really a solution to national disintegration? Tens of millions with Blue State mindsets live in Red State America, and vice versa. While folks in Texas may talk of seceding from the Union, folks in Austin talk of seceding from Texas.

Yet we should take seriously what is behind this desire to separate and sever ties, for it mirrors what is happening across our civilization.

The West is decomposing.

British Tories seek to cut ties to the European Union. Scots want to leave Britain. Catalans vote to divorce from Spain, to which they have been wedded since the 15th century. Flemish talk of leaving Walloons behind in Belgium. Northern Europeans are weary of carrying their profligate southern brethren and muse about cutting Greece adrift and letting it float out into the Mediterranean.

And Americans are already seceding from one another -- ethnically, culturally, politically. Middle-class folks flee high-tax California, as Third World immigrants, legal and illegal, pour in to partake of the cornucopia of social welfare benefits the Golden Land dispenses.

High-tax states like New York now send tens of thousands of pension checks to Empire State retirees in tax-free Florida. Communities of seniors are rising that look like replicas of the suburbs of the 1950s. People gravitate toward their own kind. Call it divorce, American-style.

What author William Bishop called "The Big Sort" -- the sorting out of people by political beliefs -- proceeds. Eighteen states have gone Democratic in six straight presidential elections. A similar number have gone Republican.

"Can we all just get along?" asked Rodney King during the Los Angeles riot of 1992. Well, if we can't, we can at least dwell apart.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: abrahamlincoln; america; civilwar; usa
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 11/30/2012 11:57:41 AM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

These times demand strong action.

“All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke


2 posted on 11/30/2012 12:04:03 PM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Kaslin

Secession is not what we need. We need to plant our flag right here and invite the God-hating, capitalism-hating, constitution-hating wannabe totalitarians to take a hike. America, love it, live it, defend it or leave it!!


3 posted on 11/30/2012 12:04:11 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Kaslin

4 posted on 11/30/2012 12:07:44 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Kaslin
Secession? Separate ourselves from liberal America?

Why would anyone want a society where our original founding principles are celebrated and honored? Why would anyone want a place where violent crime was a tiny fraction of what the US has today? Why would anyone want to have a small, efficient government? Why would anyone want a military where people are promoted and honored for achievement and ability, rather than for the color of their skin, or their gender...? Why would anyone want a country with a highly effective public education system and the freedom to home-school at will? Why would anyone want a country where individual rights are protected by ever level of government, and politicians run political campaigns based on which one of them would protect individual freedom and provide a safe, secure nation for our families and our descendants? Why would anyone what a country that established strict criminal penalties for voter fraud and then ensured each legal vote was carefully and accurately counted.

Why would anyone want to offer our children and grandchildren a better environment in which to grow up than we gave this generation of Americans? (sarc)

5 posted on 11/30/2012 12:10:48 PM PST by RavenATB
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To: Kaslin
The divisive issues have come to the point that this nation will soon be only governable by force.

It would be better to separate peacefully.

6 posted on 11/30/2012 12:13:47 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment,a Matter of Fact,Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Kaslin

I wonder if anyone has noticed that it is not Americans who are stirring the pot.


7 posted on 11/30/2012 12:13:48 PM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Jim Robinson

problem there is,
places like N.Y. and Calif. where that is exactly what the vast majority is.
And they all ain’t leaving.


8 posted on 11/30/2012 12:15:12 PM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: Jim Robinson
Take a hike to where? The takers now outnumber the makers, and they are feeling strong in self-righteousness now that the redistributor-in-chief has been reelected. They may tell you to take a hike from Mexikalifornistan. I moved from SoCal to North Florida for the freedom. The climate and scenery were better in San Diego. But that was all.

If constitutionalists move to redder regions and vice versa, we can push for de-facto secession by some states beginning to cut off most social welfare benefits, encouraging their moochers to move to a blue state that will be happy to support them.

Let federalism work. See how well rust-belt union states do under nearly pure Marxism. Let Texas become a libertarian republic. Etc. We should permit 50 experiments to happen, with folks voting with their feet. Takers will migrate to places that still hand out welfare to all comers. Makers will migrate to red states where hard work is rewarded.

At this point, the federal govt just won't permit this, but as its power declines with declining American power generally, they won't be able to enforce federal diktats in Alaska or Texas or even Tennessee.

9 posted on 11/30/2012 12:16:25 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Kaslin

The problem is more deeply rooted than simply disagreeing.

Half the country wants to forcibly take from the other half with the barrel of a government gun.

The latter half just wants to be left alone.

The only possible compromise, which we have been operating under for decades, is that the former half only takes part of what the latter half has.

That’s not enough for them - they want it all.

We must either capitulate completely, fight them, or separate.


10 posted on 11/30/2012 12:17:17 PM PST by chrisser (Starve the Monkeys!)
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To: Travis McGee

Cuba.


11 posted on 11/30/2012 12:17:22 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Kaslin
The power of the Federal Govt is an illusion. The standing Army size now is a small as it has ever been in comparison to the total population.

The only thing keeping some states from contemplating secession is fear. Think about a union based on fear. Not really a republic, now is it?

12 posted on 11/30/2012 12:20:16 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Joe Boucher

Problem is Obama carried 23 other states in addition to CA and NY. What is Iowa’s excuse? Or New Hampshire’s? I could go on....


13 posted on 11/30/2012 12:21:01 PM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Kaslin

Who is John Galt?


14 posted on 11/30/2012 12:22:53 PM PST by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: Jim Robinson

We need to get back to the basics. We are losing because the American Spirit is changing from enterprising individualism to dependency as a replacement for achievement.

We need to stop thinking a solution from the government is what we need to help.

We need to start changing hearts and minds. Neighbor by neighbor, block by block, city by city, church by church, school by school.

As long as people see dependency as a means to achievement, no change in government will change anything. Problems will just follow whomever splits themselves apart.

Politicians will always be politicians, they will pander to whom they think will give them votes and money. Until the public’s attitude is changed, nothing will change.

Bottom up, not top down.


15 posted on 11/30/2012 12:25:33 PM PST by mnehring
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Precise and concise, but very well said.


16 posted on 11/30/2012 12:29:52 PM PST by MachIV
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To: Travis McGee

You misspelled feral government.


17 posted on 11/30/2012 12:30:08 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Labor unions are the Communist Party of the USA.)
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To: mnehring
The battlefield is where this will be decided. The two sides are not going to change the hearts and minds of the other. What is keeping the this powder keg from blowing?

I submit the "fun" part of socialism is over. The run on the Treasury was easy as taking candy from a baby. Spending $6 Trillion over 4 years was the "fun" part, now the so called greedy producers will pay the bill or else. We are are entering the "not fun" phase. Where we will start to actually feel the pain...

18 posted on 11/30/2012 12:31:13 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Kaslin

While we are a ways from Social War such a war will be the only solution. A terrible solution.


19 posted on 11/30/2012 12:33:21 PM PST by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: Jim Robinson
Secession is not what we need.

Correct.

My thoughts (again).

I do not see the necessity for the vast portions of conservative values territory to "secede" so much as it should be a priority for such conservative values territories to suggest that the communist agenda "progressive liberal" values territories be (first) "invited to withdraw" from the union of constitutional adhering original intent united States.

It is they that no longer want to live under the framework of the Constitution.

They are the ones that should leave.

They are the ones that want to re-write the Constitution.

Let them.

On their own.

They can have their teaming masses of Obama-droids.

We will keep our conservative population, our "flyover" country, our "makers."

They can keep their "takers."

We can live within our budgets.

They can invent their own currency and "print" it forever under their "QE-Infinity" policy.

We can keep our "oppressive and unnecessary" military.

They can keep their FEMA, TSA, Obama-Youth, etc.

We can keep our "dirty and polluting" oil fields, coal mines, pipelines, nuke plants, natural gas fields, etc.

They can "live" off of their solar panels and wind turbines.

Yes, if they are so "oppressed" by this constitutional Republic they should invoke their beliefs into action by accepting our gracious offer to simply and peacefully withdraw from our union.

.

20 posted on 11/30/2012 12:35:38 PM PST by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: Joe Boucher

And if Pennsylvania could get rid of Philadelphia by allowing Delaware or NJ to annex it, this state would be a whole ‘nother color. We might even be able to convert Pittsburgh with Philly out of the picture. The problems are the overcrowded behives and slum cities like Philly, LA, Chicago, Newark, Detroit, and NYC among others. How in the world could we isolate them? They are the paradox which really doesn’t allow for peaceful secession. These cities exist as centers of absolute corruption and decadence which affect the entire states in which they exist.
Where is Snake Plisskin when you need him?


21 posted on 11/30/2012 12:36:46 PM PST by MestaMachine (It's the !!!!TREASON!!!!, stupid!)
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To: Joe Boucher

Well, the lovers of liberty should not consider seceding from the only country in the world that was founded on the principle that liberty is the God-given unalienable right of the people. Those who hate God, hate liberty, etc, are the ones who should leave. If NY and Calif are the problem, if they cannot abide by the constitution, then THEY should secede (or be purged from the union).

Give me Liberty or give me death!!


22 posted on 11/30/2012 12:37:55 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Jim Robinson

Sorry to be disagreeable with you, Jim. But this is going to end one of two ways. Half the country is going to be enslaved, or the entire country is going to be enslaved.


23 posted on 11/30/2012 12:38:54 PM PST by RavenATB
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To: TLI

How long would it be before they wanted what we had and declared war on us? Not long, I would wager.


24 posted on 11/30/2012 12:39:50 PM PST by MestaMachine (It's the !!!!TREASON!!!!, stupid!)
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To: MestaMachine

You’re worried about fighting a shooting war against liberals? You’re kidding...right? Who are they going to have do the fighting for them?


25 posted on 11/30/2012 12:43:51 PM PST by RavenATB
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To: Travis McGee

One potential interim play would be to recruit large numbers of conservatives willing to relocate to purple states and turn them red. Conservatives that also prefer large families.


26 posted on 11/30/2012 12:47:00 PM PST by plain talk
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To: Jim Robinson; Kaslin
Secession is not what we need. We need to plant our flag right here and invite the God-hating, capitalism-hating, constitution-hating wannabe totalitarians to take a hike. America, love it, live it, defend it or leave it!!

Let me disagree with you.

The socialists control the POTUS, Senate, and the courts. The culture has been lost to the socialists. If you disagree please tell me what cultural, or political, institution today is conservative. My point is the freedom loving country of old has been replaced with a collectivist godless society.

If we are going to plant our flag we need a secure land to do it from. The idea of secession seems pretty radical right now, but if we began organizing support behind a political party in a state that supports it we can begin the process. Look how the socialists destroyed the culture. They started in the 1960's with the sexual revolution. It took them 50 years, but they accomplished their goal.

Why not fight this war on 2 fronts? Fight to get conservatives in office at the federal level and fight to get a state that pushes for it's freedom.

27 posted on 11/30/2012 12:47:30 PM PST by wmfights
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To: Jim Robinson

Secede? NO

Expell the Leftists? YES, Indeed.


28 posted on 11/30/2012 12:48:06 PM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Joe Boucher; Jim Robinson; Kaslin
JR post: "We need to plant our flag right here and invite the God-hating, capitalism-hating, constitution-hating wannabe totalitarians to take a hike."

JB post: "....places like N.Y. and Calif. where that is exactly what the vast majority is."

Parsing JR's post from the perspective of illegals opposed to the Leftists I believe he was referring to the vast majority of the "Illegal Immigrants" are hardly "GOD Hating", nor are they "capitalism-hating", but they are most certainly ignorant of our constitution, and are lured here by the Leftist's confiscation of our personal wealth such as it is, and the redirection of that wealth in the form of freebies in support of, and to those Illegals that gives them the illusion, on top of everything else that they are special people, perhaps the chosen ones (Did we not learn from such redirection to another ethnicity, and suffer the consequences? The Left never learns from their failures). A dangerous illusion that will not only backfire on the Left, but as we have allowed the Left to continue in their direction for multiple generations will consume us as well.

Another perspective that says the Left's self serving goals have to end NOW.

29 posted on 11/30/2012 12:51:20 PM PST by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, call 'em what you will, they ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: RavenATB

I would advise you to look to the ghettos, barrios, and/or unions where there is no shortage of thugs, venom, OR weapons.


30 posted on 11/30/2012 12:54:02 PM PST by MestaMachine (It's the !!!!TREASON!!!!, stupid!)
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To: MestaMachine
and declared war on us?

And fight it with what? They do not want such an evil entity as a functional and capable military. Will they apologize to us until their "certain victory?"

Perhaps their crack FEMA will bore us into defeat by closing due to "bad weather" or their courageous TSA will confuse is into defeat with a clever strategy of going on strike?

The only strength they have is goading us into "playing fair."

The wisdom of David Hackworth should be considered here.

.

31 posted on 11/30/2012 12:56:21 PM PST by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: Travis McGee

We won’t have to be concerned with forcing secession. Balkanization of the populace using full blown class and culture warfare combined with a complete economic meltdown will bring it to our doorstep. As you stated in so any words, the mob demographics have shifted under our feet against constitutional conservatism. The political party that claims to represent us continues to cave to leftists. We can rant and rave against liberalism all we want without effect. The mob in growing majority want their “free” stuff from the government and will continue to be willing accomplices in election fraud to keep those freebies coming. It’s going to take a massive crisis to turn heads around, and then only if enough conservatives are around and prepared to take control and reset liberty as we once knew it.


32 posted on 11/30/2012 12:58:08 PM PST by TADSLOS (No need to watch the movie "Idiocracy". We're living it.)
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To: Kaslin

This country is headed toward either a Second Civil War or mutual separation (see Czechoslovakia).


33 posted on 11/30/2012 1:12:53 PM PST by Repeal 16-17 (Let me know when the Shooting starts.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Bingo!

If people want to live in the bliss of Europe, they should relocate there.

Those of us who understand why our forefathers fled Europe, should be able to remain here in peace and free.


34 posted on 11/30/2012 1:12:59 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Hurricane Sandy..., a week later and over 60 million Americans still didn't have power.)
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To: TADSLOS; Travis McGee
The mob in growing majority want their “free” stuff from the government and will continue to be willing accomplices in election fraud to keep those freebies coming. It’s going to take a massive crisis to turn heads around, and then only if enough conservatives are around and prepared to take control and reset liberty as we once knew it.
 

You're preaching to the choir - as it were - as you post this to Travis McGee. I don't know if Secession is coming. I hope not. And I hope that CWII will not happen either. But if it does; it will begin with EBT cards. I have this thread bookmarked. It is chillingly prophetic.

 

 

When The Music Stops – How America’s Cities May Explode In Violence
Western Rifle Shooters Association ^ | September 4, 2012 | Matt Bracken
 

Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2012 7:37:03 AM by Travis McGee

35 posted on 11/30/2012 1:20:19 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Jim Robinson
Well, the lovers of liberty should not consider seceding from the only country in the world that was founded on the principle that liberty is the God-given unalienable right of the people.

Yes. The word "was" -- past tense -- is correct. But this country no longer operates on these principles of liberty.

Those who hate God, hate liberty, etc, are the ones who should leave.

Yes. They "should" leave. But the word "should" is an empty, meaningless word. They should leave. They WON'T.

If NY and Calif are the problem, if they cannot abide by the constitution, then THEY should secede (or be purged from the union).

Yes. They are a huge part of the problem and "should" be purged from the union. But they WON'T be.

In my opinion, urging the enemy to abandon their "prinicples" -- especially after they WON the election -- is nothing but empty rhetoric, or as Shakespeare called it: sound and fury, signifying nothing.

We're not going to change them, reform them, or purge them from the country. But we can defy them, through the 10th Amendment, by challenging every federal fiat at the state level. I suggest we try that first.

And if that doesn't work?

Secession.

36 posted on 11/30/2012 1:20:45 PM PST by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: central_va

To gain power and votes the Progressives and there Media Helpers have created this state of groups at each other’s throats. Look what they did to the Tea Party who just wanted smaller government and lower taxes—Turned them into racists yahoos with no brains and closet KKK robes. People talk of decapitation Tea Party members without even listening to what they have to say. What would happen if the Tea Party said such things about the Left? Any group that is victimized and slandered will—in time rise up. Look at the Amish —they now have the Amish Mafia? Mormons were abused—their prophet killed etc... they formed the Danites and Avenging Angels. Chinese in 19th Century turned to the Tongs for protection. After forced changes that came after the Civil War, the south turned to the KKK. The ‘invisible Empire’ I tell you a new force will be born out of the will of the people that will prove more violent than the Weathermen and their bombs. The Chickens will truly come home to roost. As for Secession—its too soon—but, if Obama and his “winning team” continue to force their will upon the people—it will explode and—like before— it will happen in the South. It will spell the end of American World Prominence. The USA will be off the world stage for a decade if not longer and may break into three or four nation states. A Russian guy predicted this a decade ago—I laughed then—but now I think the fellow might have been on to something.


37 posted on 11/30/2012 1:21:56 PM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Jim Robinson
I am also sorry to disagree with you Jim. We have played by the rules while socialist marxist slugs have created an entitlement society that is basically sapping this country dry.

I for one am a proud American, but the punk POTUS and his minions are out to redistribute the gain of all who have worked hard their lives. Now with grumblings of IRA / 401K confiscation, I for one support a free and clear Texas from the union. A conservative government for conservative people (Texas) seems to be a better alternative to where we are heading.

38 posted on 11/30/2012 1:22:44 PM PST by catfish1957 (My dream for hope and change is to see the punk POTUS in prison for treason)
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To: wmfights

Disagree all you wish, but I’m not seceding. If the liberals cannot or will not abide by our constitution, then it is they who should be doing the leaving. I’m standing my ground for God and country.


39 posted on 11/30/2012 1:27:02 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: wmfights
They started in the 1960's with the sexual revolution. It took them 50 years, but they accomplished their goal.

Actually this started during the Progressive Era, especially the 16th and 17th Amendments. The Liberals/Progressives/Socialists/Communists took over a century to give us the country we now inhabit. We can't afford to take that long to undo the damage.

40 posted on 11/30/2012 1:34:02 PM PST by Repeal 16-17 (Let me know when the Shooting starts.)
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To: Kaslin

Actually, many of us in Texas have long wanted to build a wall around Austin and impose passport control on I-35 and 290.


41 posted on 11/30/2012 1:41:31 PM PST by Zippo44 (Liberal: another word for poltroon.)
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To: MestaMachine
I would advise you to look to the ghettos, barrios, and/or unions where there is no shortage of thugs, venom, OR weapons.

Thanks for the reminder. There are also liberals and union thugs dispersed throughout the red state regions who are not friendly to conservatives. These will be as snakes in the grass.

However the coming months or years play out, it will not be pleasant or easy for anyone. Living, or dying, in a war-torn $hithole is just that.

42 posted on 11/30/2012 1:46:37 PM PST by meadsjn
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To: Jim Robinson
"then it is they who should be doing the leaving"

How do you propose doing that?

43 posted on 11/30/2012 1:48:45 PM PST by catfish1957 (My dream for hope and change is to see the punk POTUS in prison for treason)
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To: Responsibility2nd; Travis McGee

Thanks, and I agree. The EBT failure will be a major trigger.


44 posted on 11/30/2012 1:51:45 PM PST by TADSLOS (No need to watch the movie "Idiocracy". We're living it.)
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To: catfish1957

I don’t care how they go, but it’s up to us to defend OUR constitution. And defend it we will. I’m not seceding. If the liberals insist on living under communist rule, they should move to Cuba. This is America and we believe in and defend Liberty!!


45 posted on 11/30/2012 1:59:08 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: catfish1957

But... but... all we have to do is work harder and win the next election! Right? Is this thing on?


46 posted on 11/30/2012 2:02:21 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: RavenATB
My liberal sister is terrified of my purse. It contains a S&W .357 Magnum. I don't see her marching on us “right-wing nut jobs”, rifle in hand. I however, fat old grandmother that I am, am ready to man the barricades.
47 posted on 11/30/2012 2:02:47 PM PST by Himyar
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To: Jim Robinson
Going over the Cliff is probably the best option. The defense cuts are the hardest to stomach though
48 posted on 11/30/2012 2:05:05 PM PST by Figment
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To: Kaslin
For all those that think secession is illegal, think again. There is nothing in the constitution that disallows secession, in fact to claim it is illegal it to fly in the face of everything the constitution stands for. Freedom, freedom to leave the Union as well as to join it, once the feds start taking our freedoms we can leave the Union. Lincoln was wrong and started(yes, the North started the war)the civil war illegally. Losing that war cost us our 10th amendment rights.

We are at a point where we may never get back all of our freedoms if we stay in the Union, secession may be the only way out.

49 posted on 11/30/2012 2:09:14 PM PST by calex59
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To: Kaslin
. . . the issue of a state's right to secede was settled at Appomattox. If that right had existed, it no longer did.

Disagree. The Confederacy was bludgeoned back into the Union. Adding insult to injury, the Southern states have been supporting the rest of the country economically for at least the last 50-years.

50 posted on 11/30/2012 2:12:56 PM PST by Arm_Bears (The MSM lies about conservatives; and it lies about liberals.)
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