Posted on 11/30/2012 12:10:18 PM PST by Coleus
Controversy is stirring over recent comments made by Rick Warren, author of the best-selling book The Purpose-Driven Life and megachurch leader of Saddleback Church in California, who stated that homosexual behavior “might be” sinful, and that he believes homosexuals go to Heaven. During an interview this week with the Huffington Post, Warren was asked by Marc Lamont Hill if having romantic feelings for a member of the same sex is a sin. Leading up to the question, Warren was explaining that he does not hate homosexuals, and that people should disagree politely on the subject of homosexuality.
“I have many, many gay friends, and have worked around the world with them in gay organizations to try to stop AIDS,” he said. “We’re doing ‘World AIDS Day’ this weekend at Saddleback Church. My wife and I have given millions of dollars to help people with HIV/AIDS and have worked with gay organizations on that.” “What about the love part, though? I hear about the AIDS part,” asked Hill. “It’s not illegal to love somebody,” Warren replied. “But you think it’s a sin,” Hill asserted. “No, it’s not a sin to love somebody,” Warren said. “It might be a sin to have sex with them,” he added. “It might be.”
However, just moments prior, Hill aired a clip from an interview that Warren participated in on Piers Morgan this week, where Warren presented a slightly different answer. He began by responding to the question of whether or not a person can be born homosexual. “I think the jury is still out on that,” he said. “It wouldn’t bother me if there was a ‘gay gene’ found, because here’s what we know about life: I have all kinds of natural feelings in my life, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that I should act on every feeling. … I do not believe that attraction is a sin, but I do believe that some actions are sin.”
Warren stated during his interview with Hill that he believes sex outside of marriage is always sinful, however, and that he obtains his views from the Bible. “I make no bones about it. I’m an evangelical pastor, so my source of authority is, what does the Bible say about it?” he said. “However, people will have other sources of authority.”
“Or, different readings of the Bible,” Hill injected. “Or different readings — that’s very true,” Warren agreed. Later during the interview, when Hill asked Warren if he believes homosexuals will go to Hell, he replied that they will not. “No, not because they’re gay,” he said. “We go to Hell because we choose to reject the grace of God.” When Hill asked what happens to a homosexual that accepts Jesus, Warren responded enthusiastically. “He’s going to Heaven!” he declared. “Without a doubt.”
Warren is not the first evangelical to make the assertion, however. Earlier this year, megachurch author and speaker Joel Osteen similarly told popular talk show host Oprah that he also believes homosexuals are saved. “Will a gay person be accepted into heaven, as you see it?,” Oprah asked Osteen. “I believe they will,” he replied. Craig Gross of “XXXChurch” also made statements in July that he doesn’t think God would send homosexuals to Hell.
“Why do they (religious people) believe that the gay guy goes to Hell, but the fat preacher who builds some of the largest churches in the world makes it to Heaven?” Gross wrote in an online blog. However, many Christians view statements such as these as compromise against the word of God. “The concept of a ‘gay Christian’ is an oxymoron in light of numerous Scriptural instances wherein homosexual behavior is forbidden,” Alex Mason, policy analyst for the Family Policy Network, told Christian News Network. “One cannot live in a continual state of unrepentant sexual sin while calling themselves a Christian.”
“That’s not to say Christians can’t struggle with sin, including sexual sin,” he continued. “The Christian life as a constant struggle against sin, and just as some Christians struggle to defeat heterosexual lust, others may struggle to defeat homosexual lusts.”
Peter LaBarbera, the president of Americans for Truth About Homosexuality, agreed. He stated that he was shocked at Rick Warren’s comments. “You don’t want to give the impression that it’s fine and dandy to live the homosexual lifestyle and as long as I believe in Jesus, I can still go to Heaven,” he said. “It’s one thing to have attractions and [fight] that, [and another to embrace homosexual behavior].”
Mason, whose ministry operates the website HopeForHomosexuals.com, stated that Warren should have explained his beliefs further, so as not to jeopardize the eternity of valuable souls. “Warren failed to define what it means to ‘accept Christ,’ leaving viewers with the notion that a person can simply express a ‘belief’ in Jesus’ existence without turning away from the sins He died to atone,” he lamented.
“When you accept Christ, your behavior changes,” LaBarbera said. “And the attitude is [people like Warren] don’t want to talk about changes. … We know that God changes homosexuals, so why isn’t Rick Warren saying that?” LaBarbera also told Christian News Network that he thinks Warren is treading into very dangerous territory by insinuating that the issue of homosexual behavior is a grey area.
“What part of Romans 1 doesn’t Rick Warren understand? It’s so clear,” he said. “When you make statements like these, you end up losing the Biblical sense, and the Biblical sense is that this is an abomination.” Mason agreed, and outlined that sin needs to be taken seriously by those who wear the name of Christ.
“Christians should not, for one moment, hesitate when asked about behaviors that Scripture clearly calls sinful,” he said. “It is impossible for anyone to legitimize or make holy what God Himself has called unholy.”
“The Apostle Paul did not hesitate to faithfully echo God’s standards in his letter to the Corinthians, wherein he included a long list of sins that will keep people from the kingdom of God, including the sin of homosexuality,” Mason continued, citing 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. “Modern preachers would do well to follow Paul’s example in condemning that which God has condemned, while also proclaiming that the only hope for sinners – homosexual and heterosexual alike — is faith in Jesus Christ: ‘All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved.’”
LaBarbera said that Warren should not only have called homosexual behavior sin, but should have gone deeper to the root issue. “It’s also sinful to lust after another man,” LaBarbera said. “We can’t advocate sin as believers, and we have to think about how that the person that’s struggling with homosexuality is going to hear this.” “There is no Biblical basis for his statements,” he added. “I think Rick Warren needs to retract that ['might be'] statement and clarify it. If he does not retract it, he has fallen into error.”
“Rick Warren has a heart for lost souls, but he seems fearful he’ll offend people he could otherwise lead to salvation by telling the truth about their sin. That may indicate an inadequate faith in God’s sovereignty, or a failure to fully believe God’s Word has the power to transform lives,” Mason concluded. “I pray he’ll find the courage to be just as determined to be the salt of the earth as he is to be a light to the world.” Requests for comment were not returned by Saddleback Church.
Kewl...I can join his church...start banging his wife and not really worry if I was comitting sin.
Same thing right ?
TV image has misguided many a good man to be a fence sitter, he had better review the Bible’s stance on tepid water.
It is sinful just as adultery, stealing, murder etc...
All this I get from my wife:
My wife has a middle aged acquaintance that is a homosexual. He was raised in a Christian home. I don’t know what event(s) made him turn. He lives with his partner (they are very successful) and has vowed to never have children, raise any, nor does he and his flaunt their life style in public (no pda), on the contrary he bemoans all the queers on tv and the jumping up and down they do. He never talks outside his two or three friends about his life.
He has never asked for “marriage” rights only to be able to spend his life as he wants and has indicated “marriage rights for homos are stupid”. He also talked to being a believer and very fearful of God’s wrath for his chosen lifestyle (his words not mine), but says he cannot turn away from it (I do not know his reasoning). A nicer, gentler person you could not meet.
I cannot help but pray for him that he does believe and will turn away from his sin, but he is a sinner just like the rest of us and is depraved like the rest of us and upon his death will be freed from his sin and go to be with the Lord if he truly believes. Only he and the Lord know if he does.
In the end it is all about faith not what men think will get them in.
Saddleback church? Maybe ol Rick has had some ‘brokeback’ experience that influences his perspective.
Of course we're all sinners, but homosexuality is the only sin that denies BEING one. I don't see adulterers, liars, thieves, and murderers running around, demanding that their sins be fawned upon and pronounced normal and right.
see post 40
re: “Or, different readings of the Bible,” Hill injected. “Or different readings — that’s very true,” Warren agreed. Later during the interview, when Hill asked Warren if he believes homosexuals will go to Hell, he replied that they will not. “No, not because they’re gay,” he said. “We go to Hell because we choose to reject the grace of God.” When Hill asked what happens to a homosexual that accepts Jesus, Warren responded enthusiastically. “He’s going to Heaven!” he declared. “Without a doubt.”
Here is the quote from the article that is creating the problem:
“When Hill asked what happens to a homosexual that accepts Jesus, Warren responded enthusiastically. “He’s going to Heaven!” he declared. “Without a doubt.”
If you take what Warren said, without qualifying that a homosexual/lesbian must stop practicing homosexuality, then it can sound like he’s saying that a practicing homosexual, if he/she accepts Christ as their Savior, will go to Heaven.
On the other hand, it is possible that Warren implied that the homosexual who turns to Christ must stop living that life of sin - but what is reported in the article does not do that. So, one could be left with the impression that as long as a homosexual accepts Christ as Savior, no lifestyle change is necessary and that person will go to Heaven.
Warren needs to explain what he meant by his last statement.
So, we’re to not consider the context in this mysterious and superior “reading comprehension” that you’re referring to?
Are you seriously trying to defend Rick Warren on this?
Or are you in awe of his ability to _technically_ not answer the question yet appear to?
He’s separating attraction from action, and saying that being attracted to same sex is far different from having sex with the same sex.
Just as a man might be attracted to a woman who is not his wife, but that isn’t a sin. The sin is when he acts on that attraction, and has sex with a woman who is not his wife.
Similarly, one might also be tempted to steal, lie, cheat, or even kill,but not take the step to act on that.
Scripture tells us to repent and believe and we will be saved. Warren's quote describes belief without repentance. The demons also believe, and tremble.
Does anyone know what The Message says about homosexuality? That’s the “bible” “pastor” Rick uses isn’t it? Warren is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations so his true religion is more aligned with humanism and Gaia worship. Eternity isn’t going to be a good time for wolves Ricky boy.
Homosexual ACTS are a sin. Yes. I don’t believe he said they weren’t. And, I hate to break it to you, but heaven is filled with sinners.
I'm no fan of Rick Warren, but the way I read that statement, he isn't speaking to just homosexual acts. It isn't a sin to love somebody. A man who loves his wife is not sinning. It also isn't necessarily a sin to have sex with someone you love: a man who sleeps with his wife is not sinning. The "it might be" statement, to my understanding, acknowledges that there are situations in which having sex with someone you love is a sin--sex outside of marriage, for example, or homosexual acts, although Warren does seem to dodge the line of questioning a bit.
OK, so, to paraphrase some other sin into his quote -
“it’s not a sin to be tempted to steal something, but it MIGHT BE a sin to actually steal it. MIGHT BE.”
What he’s saying is that it MIGHT BE a sin, which means he’s saying that it possibly could NOT be a sin.
If he were, as you say, separating the act from the temptation, he wouldn’t have said “might be”, much less RE stated “might be” for emphasis.
For those who stumble over the "homosexual" angle, substitute any sin...shoplifting, coveting, adultery, whatever...all sin separates from God equally, and all sinners need to repent to be saved from it.
” Any “Christian” who expresses ambivelancy about the sinfulness of homosexuality has no place behind the pulpit of a Christian church.”
Guilt-free churches attract many, and make big money.
Seriously, this is as bad as arguing with liberals who try to isolate down the quote or the behavior to the point where they exclude all context in order to deny what is plainly obvious about a person and their beliefs.
Rev. Graham fully understood the risks and did the right thing anyway. Warren seeks to avoid the risks.
If Rev. Graham is the Moses at Mt. Sinai, then Warren doesn't even amount to Aaron who consented to making the golden calf.
He’s a con.
LOL! ‘SaddleUp’
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