Skip to comments.The Real Root of Atheists' Anti-Christmas Rage
Posted on 12/02/2012 3:18:49 AM PST by Kaslin
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no god == no absolutes == no sin
I have seen that (even here) in exchanges with some who absolutely refuse to even allow any alternative and reasonable explanation of Scriptures which refutes their misconstrue which is used to justify their angry scorn and rage against God and the Bible.
If I am not mistaken, in a Jewish court of law, there need to be two witnesses to convict one of a serious crime.
Society affirming the Incarnation is the second witness.
When I am asked by a Christian to read some particular work of apologetics, I agree to do so, provided that my Christian friend will read "Who Knows?" by Raymond Smullyan. A book which I strongly recommend to you, his concept of hell is somewhat in line with yours.
I was not aware that Michael Pfleger claimed to be a conservative.
The most dangerous, frightening, politically incorrect word in the English language. Try using that in a sentence, regardless of context, at any fashionable cocktail party.
I've always loved Doug for his boldness.
But he does claim to be a Catholic. And the Catholic church does seem to accept him.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.
Lots of people claim to be Catholic, with no supporting evidence, and no response from the Church.
Much to my eternal dismay.
Oh, it’s not my concept of hell. I think when we die, that’s it. I’m just saying that the Christian construct is rather uncomfortably in line with liberal thinking.
And you are welcome to believe as you choose. I'll never insult your faith and never have.
I don't have a problem with a nativity scene on the courthouse lawn, either. In Jefferson's great phrase, "It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg".
I love that Jefferson quote as it sums up what we should all hold dear when it comes to religion, our religion, the religion of others and the rights of non-believers.
While I am for all intense purposes an atheist as I do not believe in a supernatural supreme being or in supernatural beings or in the supernatural world period, I usually refrain from calling myself an Atheist, preferring something like non-believer or non-religious or simply a rationalist because of the few Atheists who make complete asses of themselves, especially at this time of year, those who have no idea of what religious freedom really means.
Like you, I'm pro-America, pro-life, and pro-liberty and I've been an atheist nearly all my days and I have absolutely no problem with public Nativity scenes or calling the big brightly lit pine tree in the town square exactly what it should be called a Christmas Tree and not a Holiday or Seasonal or Winter or Festive tree. Unless I know for sure that someone is Jewish or of some other non-Christian faith, I wish people a Merry Christmas (I have no problem BTW wishing my Jewish friends a blessed Hanukkah, my Hindu friends a joyous Deepavali (Festival of Lights), etc.) but I have no problem with my Christian friends and family or complete strangers wishing me a Merry Christmas. My Jewish and Hindu friends wish me a Merry Christmas BTW and I appreciate that.
While I may not believe in a personal supernatural supreme being and savior, I consider myself a Cultural Christian as it is the culture of my forbearers and a big part of the predominate culture of the country that I love.
And I love Christmas. I love the story of the Nativity, I love the music (including traditional and ancient religious carols along with the more secular Christmas songs), the lights, the decorations, the food and most of all the spirit of giving and of charity. I love sharing with my niece and nephew and now their little children our family traditions and recipes; some of the PA German/Dutch and Welsh traditions originating from my mothers side of the family and some of the traditions from my Norwegian born fathers side of the family along with the American traditions from my childhood. For instance, its been a long standing tradition that Christmas doesnt officially start in our family until the real Santa makes his appearance at the end of the Macys parade on Thanksgiving. I always watch A Charlie Brown Christmas and get choked up at the end when Linus explains the real meaning of Christmas every single time just as I do when the Grinchs heart grows and I watch the 1951 movie version of A Christmas Carol every Christmas Eve. I love baking Christmas cookies and giving them out, I put a Christmas wreath on my front door and put up a Christmas Tree decorated with family heirloom hand blown glass Christmas ornaments, a few of which came over to America with my mothers great-grandparents from Germany in the mid-1800s.
The only other holiday that gets me as teary eyed and feeling all warm and fuzzy inside is The 4th of July.
I tend to think that there are a good number of us non-believers, a good many of us conservatives like you and me and others here. The militant Athiests are more akin to Communists IMO. Unfortunately they are loud and militant and angry, were as most of the rest of us are a silent majority among non-believers who are simply content to live and let live. So the believers dont hear from us as we dont find it necessary to say otherwise, to question or insult their faith or stand in their way in practicing it or among those of us who have not abandoned the traditions of Christmas.
I have one question -How does one truly defend and uphold inalienable rights endowed us by the Creator when one does not consider the Creator to exist?
In my opinion -this belief and acknowledgment of the Creator in context with the people and the role of government is truly what separates America and our form of government from all the others.
Remember the old phrase “Give credit where credit is due”? Celebrating Christmas without a belief in the Savior is what I would call “eating the seed corn.” There is nothing contributed to the next generation. To continue Christmas, you have believe in the real meaning of Christmas, otherwise it will become a silly secular annual event used by commercial interests and eventually die out.
We celebrate Christmas because Christ was born. Without that, you are missing the point. It’s not just a cozy, picturesque time of year, with special music and food. He became one of us and lived among us, an unfathomable mystery and miracle—and just what we needed, although few people knew it at the time.
I don't "rage" at Christmas in the slightest, nor do I feel in the least upset that all these beautiful traditions are, at the core, based upon an event in which I do not believe.
You think I am an example of that slander against Puritans, that they fear someone somewhere might be having a good time?
Actually, I am the mad defender of atheists’ rights, on FR and in a pro-life group that I belong to where everyone keeps wanting to start with a prayer. Not only do we have different religions in the group, who often don’t appreciate others’ prayers or methods of prayer, we also have one atheist, and I insist in the face of much pious disapproval that we do not begin or end with a prayer out of respect for his beliefs.
Athesists must have their freedom, uncoerced in any way whatsoever to participate in religious observances. If they don’t have that complete freedom, they will not easily be able to choose the religion they want, if they should ever reconsider. The only true beliefs are those freely chosen.
I guess you have never witnessed the s-storms of outrage when I express these views on FR.
I guess I’ll go try to find some atheist having fun at Christmas and go jump on their Chritmas wreath. “ )
what faith were you born to or of your ancestors?
i have found in my life that most atheists are Jewish born ..in fact most Jews I know do not really believe in their creed much but they cling to the identity/history/sense of belonging by blood and most agnostics were Catholic born and christened
lapsed Southern baptists and Pentecostals while do occur are less common...rare is one who will profess atheism....usually they will parse it like...I'm a believer but I don;t go to church or I believe how I want to believe ...or I hate organized religion, or church is full of hypocrites...it is...we all are to some degree but that is our fault not God's
however...few die atheists...not from what my oncologist friend says...wonderers maybe but deniers are quite rare
however...you can be conservative...even socially and not be Christian or serious Jewish
not many but some
I'm a Christian...southern..old school...I've never forgotten it even when i was bad...and I mean...like really bad...worse than 99.9% here ever dreamed of
but I never forgot God or my culture
wish the best...I hope you find a route to live outside yourself...kids maybe?
I do think you ought to ponder where this goodness you sense in your intellect that drives your thoughtfulness gegarding behavior comes from? parents maybe?...but where did they ge it?
some is innate...like toddlers know stomping puppies is bad
questions men pondered from the first fireside where one could repose...without immediate fear of death
Well put, and you have my apology.
You are of course referring to the one mention of a creator in our founding documents. In my opinion, Jefferson was looking for a way to de-legitimize the authority of the British crown over the colonies, and he hit upon this construction. (Not that it would have made much difference if we had lost the war).
It's also interesting that the British state, made up of people who were nearly all believers in a traditional, trinitarian Christianity based on an inerrant Bible, were opposed to a loose association of colonial leaders - some clearly deists and others with their own freelanced views of God and the Bible - and God, if he indeed took a side, was apparently on the latter.
Which leads to another question. If God wants people to be free citizens, and if He intends them to have inalienable rights which no state can extinguish, why did nations based on that "endowment" not come into being with the start of the Christian era? What was it about the founding generations of Americans that made them different, not just from all other nations but from all preceding Christian nations??
OK, I'm going to challenge you about that.
Suppose you were able to follow me around today in my daily routine with work and family.
And suppose that next week I were to give up atheism.
If you were to follow me around on a Monday sometime next month, what do you think you would observe about how my life had changed??
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