Sen. Graham: Obama’s Economic Plan Will Turn US Into Greece

Newsmax ^ | Sunday, 02 Dec 2012 01:03 PM | Amy Woods

[Olog-hai]

Sen. Lindsey Graham said President Barack Obama’s plan to prevent American from going over the fiscal cliff is “a joke.”

“I think we’re going over the cliff,” the South Carolina Republican said Sunday on CBS’ “Face the Nation.” “It’s pretty clear to me they’ve made a political calculation. This offer doesn’t remotely deal with entitlement reform in a way to save Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security from imminent bankruptcy.” …

[Fightin Whitey]

Even more I suspect he’d like the U.S. to be Kenya.

[SERE_DOC]

What he says is true with or without Obama doing anything else.

How about... if the republicans had a clue they would still snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory...

Or even better:

If Lindsey had any testosterone in his body his mother would still be a man before him.

[RitaOK]

Thank you for your response and your points, with which I certainly agree. You have the oldtimers doing all the squawking nailed.

I have to say, at this point, I am becoming more Libertarian in my rage than I am a strictly conservative Republican.

The conservatives seem to me to have become so rigid and so bloody divisive that they balcanize themselves, becoming easy prey for the Republic party who smells the blood from our quarrels.

We pay the Establishment, work for them, defend them as if they were our mother’s milk, and they take it all, use it, and then mess with us, roll over and leave us. Talk about prostituting ourselves, or talk about being on the plantation, we most certainly are.

Conservative Republicans are not organized. I thought they were going to be a movement, in the Tea Party, but I realized that a lot of their numbers were fiscal Libertarians. The original Tea Party voice brought unity from diverse political philosophies, who were nevertheless able to unify around one or two simple ideas, against the Pelosi driven Obamacare fiscal cliffery and the initial Obama bail outs, resulting from the real estate corruption & collapse, and confiscation of banks and GM.

I don’t know where “we” went from that first T Party collective push, but the Libertarians stuck together with their one guy and bothered to create some havoc with the Party Est. during primaries, during caucasus, during the convention Rules, ballots, and nominations, and their guy dispensed with the bs to follow— the Libertarian did not endorse or support the socialist, Romney.

The Libertarians are not everything I want in many obvious areas, (Israel) but they happen to be the only stand up and fight organization that I see. I prefer their crude, blunt honesty to the establishment pay to play mouthpieces any day.

This would include Rubio, who fails to convince me that he isn’t entirely Bush groomed, and whom last I heard can’t seem to decide whether he is Protestant or Catholic. (Focus groups will come up with that answer for him.)

Another thing, we conseratives support the Constitution doggedly, except where we disagree with it, like foreign wars policy and monetary rules.

The Constitution is taken painfully rigidly and literally by Libertarians, who are seemingly unimpressed with all the contradictory laws and regulations that have flowed from it, in the name of “justice” and fairness. I’m not impressed either, on that count.

[longtermmemmory]

people do not understand how “like Greece” works.

like Greece means:

-I got mine oppressive taxation.

-crony capatalism based on who you know and lobbying for regulation exceptions via bribes. (atlas shrugged)

-becoming a “soft power” rather than the current “hard power”

-surrender of sovereignty

-communists like trumpka in charge of other people’s corprations.

-general motors ... no explanation needed.

-free stuff for the citizens where citizens are reduced to slaves or serfs.

-the court system is meaningless, contracts are meaningless

[longtermmemmory]

people do not understand how “like Greece” works.

like Greece means:

-I got mine oppressive taxation.

-crony capatalism based on who you know and lobbying for regulation exceptions via bribes. (atlas shrugged)

-becoming a “soft power” rather than the current “hard power”

-surrender of sovereignty

-communists like trumpka in charge of other people’s corprations.

-general motors ... no explanation needed.

-free stuff for the citizens where citizens are reduced to slaves or serfs.

-the court system is meaningless, contracts are meaningless

It is not just the spending, it is the insider power grab that is dangerous. All those insider bankers who went to DC and DEMANDED help because “do you know who we are?” thuggery are just looking to solidify their personal power and are willing to sell a piece to Obama for his place overlooking the parade at the USSR.

[nathanbedford]

Rita:

I too have been suffering eruptions which I call my recurring libertarian virus. Many of us predicted before the election that if Romney lost it would be a very serious blow to the unity of the Republican Party, perhaps resulting in a real third party movement. You are quite right, the tea party has not developed into a political party and even has raised questions about whether it even remains a movement. There is a streak of libertarianism in the tea party movement and that is probably why the tea party has failed to extend beyond issues of taxing and some aspects of spending-Medicare, for example, excepted because it is clearly fundamental to the tea party movement that the spending be maintained for programs they like.

So the tea party brings its own inherent inconsistency which perhaps has prevented it from becoming a longer-lasting movement having a recognizable effect on election of 2012. In may have had its effect on the 2012 election but it certainly was not obvious as it was in 2010.

The age-old question for us conservatives remains: do we try to reform the Republican Party, in effect purge it of its establishment heresies, or do we strike out into a third-party, such as the tea party might have become, or the Libertarian party. By the way, I do not necessarily believe that the failure the tea party movement to become an actual third-party was necessarily a bad thing. It really depends on the answer to the sentence which led off this paragraph.

Whatever the strategy, it is clear that we cannot go on as we have. We really need a William Pitt in the House of Representatives instead of John Boehner but none appears to me anywhere on the horizon. The lesson is clear, and it can be drawn from the fate of Colonel West at the polls or the fate of Michelle Bachmann has been marginalized by the establishment. This tells me that there is no sanctuary for us in the House of Representatives. John Boehner does not appear to have even the tactical sense of a Tip O'Neill. Can you imagine if we had a speaker of the house who was conservative enough to hold and pursue conservative values to the same extent as Nancy Pelosi pursued her mischief?

I am not unmindful of the injunction of John F. Kennedy, "first you gotta win." Unfortunately, we lost. We are lucky to have the House, such as it is. John Boehner conducts himself a speaker of the house with an eye on the next election, thinking defensively how can he retained his majority? There is no hope that Boehner will risk his majority in pursuit of conservative principles. There is some hope that Boehner will be forced to pursue conservative principles in order to maintain his majority. In other words, John Boehner should be made to fear us more than he fears them.

To return to a consideration of libertarianism, after the 2006 election I wrote a rather long piece about the necessity of the Republican Party to find its soul. I suggested that time modify the Libertarian approach in which we hope to keep the social conservatives because we are adamant about those social issues in which there is an identifiable victim. Abortion is manifestly an example in which I say we should fight to the death. But the victim test does not necessarily include opposition to gay rights because I do not see a clear connection between permitting gay marriage and the destruction of traditional marriage, this even though I am fully aware of the danger of the destruction of our institutions as intended by The Frankfurt School. In the event, we are going to lose this war against gay marriage and in the process we are going to lose the gay vote. If one goes back to Pat Buchanan's convention speech in 1988 he talks about the fight against gay marriage. We lost both.

Please do not misunderstand me, I would much prefer to pursue social issues if we could do so effectively. I do not advocate a policy of appeasement or surrender on these issues. I do advocate understanding what happened to his election and fixing it and that implies much that we already understand and much that we do not understand. On the other hand, I am an advocate of personal liberty, free speech, free exercise of religion and I oppose its establishment. If that makes me a libertarian, so be it.

There is another consideration, which is that most of us on these threads are interpreting this election fiasco that we just experienced as a class issue, the 47% who are riding free. There is truth to this but there is also another perspective of this election which we must not forget: race overlays the class issue and it is not clear that any concessions to socialism will wean African-Americans or even Hispanics away from the Democrat party. In other words, in aint class, it is race. We do not have data to tell us what happened so we are all free to be geniuses. I am saying that it is now the job of competent mechanics, experts like Michael Barone who, despite his wildly false prediction of the election outcome nevertheless retains the respect of most of us. We need experts like this to tell us exactly what happened in this election. Then we must go about fixing it. Until we have the actual data we are just blowing smoke.

[RitaOK]

Absolutely agree to every single point. God knows we have lost this war. We have. We have ceded the nation. BUT, as long as we have breath and we repent of our own grave negligence, we claw back as we are able to mount a new effort and must pray for God to send us either Christ Jesus Himself, or He annoint and appoint for us an earthly leader to assist us. Without our Lord at the front of our Christian brothers & sisters, we shall all be martyrs before long.

These are very dangerous people drunk on money and power who are ruthless because they are Godless.

Let us make a pact to try and pray accordingly. God be with you.

[Tau Food]

Pretty testeronic talk for a liberal Republican Establishment type guy.

Where was this fine mouthpiece when we had conservatives on the rack during the primary? He was off supporting Romney who never convinced anyone of anything, because he had no core on anything.

What is Lindsey up to? He pops up like quarterly taxes. I prefer a conservative emerging as our leader, but not the McCain, Graham, Ayotte trio trying to shape things with pals across the aisle.

He's hoping to avoid a primary opponent in 2014. It remains to be seen if South Carolina voters buy his new act.

He's going to sound more and more conservative as time goes by. So long as he and McCain don't elope, he may pull it off.

[RitaOK]

Btw, not to say that we lead with social issues in this evil era, but God will veil us and make us attractive, unassuming in our pursuits, cunning, as a serpent. Apostle Paul said he all became all things to all manner of men in the doing the work of the Lord. This favor only comes with faith and humility of God.

[RitaOK]

I appreciate your insight and believe the same. It is treachery and the word must get out in SC. We must pray and work for good men, and women, to be raised up to run and that the wicked Graham be exposed for the actor, the ruse and manipulater he is.

Thanks, Rita

[nathanbedford]

Amen