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New York AG Takes On "Reciprocity" Gun Bill
Village Voice ^ | Nov. 30 2012 | James King

Posted on 12/07/2012 1:20:25 PM PST by neverdem

guncartoon.jpg

www.commonsensepolitics.org

As it currently stands, the Second Amendment guarantees U.S. citizens the right to own firearms. But each state is permitted to place its own restrictions on the types of firearms -- and the manner in which they're possessed -- that people are allowed to own.

A bill making its way through Congress would grant "reciprocity" for gun owners in states where they don't actually live. In other words, if you can carry a concealed handgun under Ohio law, an Ohio resident can carry a concealed weapon in New York -- regardless of New York's gun laws.

The bill is designed to keep gun owners from getting arrested in other states where gun laws might be different than they are in the state in which they live. But New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman ain't havin' it.


Schneiderman is leading a coalition of attorneys general who oppose "The National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act" and "The Respecting States Rights and Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act," which he says "would force states like New York, and the other co-signing states, to abandon their own gun laws by allowing out-of-state visitors to carry concealed firearms based on their home state's less safe laws, rather than those of the state they are entering."

In a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, the attorneys general expressed their concern that "the bill would restrict their states' ability to control who may and may not carry a concealed weapon within their borders, undermine the ability of police to verify the validity of gun permits, and allow gun traffickers to more easily bring illegal guns into their respective states.

"These two bills would force states to recognize concealed carry permits issued by any other states, even those with poor oversight and weaker permitting standards," the attorneys general wrote. "These bills would create a lowest common denominator approach to public safety that would endanger police and make it more difficult to prosecute gun traffickers."

Scheniderman says, that in 2011, about 68 percent of guns recovered in connection with crimes committed in New York State originally came from outside the state. That said, all of those guns found their way to New York without the help of a reciprocity law.

See the attorneys general's letter below.

The Honorable Harry Reid The Honorable Mitch McConnell

U.S. Senate Majority Leader U.S. Senate Republican Leader

522 Hart Senate Office Building 317 Russell Senate Office Building

Washington, D.C. 20510 Washington, D.C. 20510

RE: Attorney General Opposition To S. 2188, "The National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act" (Begich-Manchin) and S. 2213, "The Respecting States Rights and Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act" (Thune-Vitter)

Dear Majority Leader Reid and Republican Leader McConnell:

We write to respectfully urge you and your caucuses to oppose S. 2188, "The National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act" and S. 2213, "The Respecting States Rights and Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act." These two bills would force states to recognize concealed carry permits issued by any other states, even those with poor oversight and weaker permitting standards. These bills would create a lowest common denominator approach to public safety that would endanger police and make it more difficult to prosecute gun traffickers.

S. 2188 and S. 2213 trample on states' rights by overriding our states' legislative and regulatory authority to determine who can - and who cannot - carry hidden and loaded guns in public. For example, many states have established standards that go beyond federal law in order to keep concealed weapons out of the hands of violent misdemeanants, alcohol abusers, teenagers, and people who have not completed basic safety training. S. 2188 and S. 2213 would gut this framework, and impose the weakest state permitting and verification standards on all other states.

Under current law, states are free to enter into, refuse, or revoke concealed carry reciprocity agreements with other states. These agreements are often contingent on states having comparable permitting standards. For example, authorities in Nevada and New Mexico made the decision to stop recognizing carry permits issued by Utah, which does not require live-fire instruction as part of its training requirements. Nevada has also ended reciprocity with Florida, which only requires individuals to renew their permits every seven years. States would lose this discretion under forced reciprocity.

As Attorneys General, we are most troubled by the threat to public safety posed by local law enforcement's inability to promptly verify out-of-state permits. Contrary to claims by proponents of national concealed carry reciprocity legislation, varying state standards make it nearly impossible for our law enforcement agencies to quickly determine if a carry permit from another state is valid. This further jeopardizes the safety of police and the public. In addition, there is no comprehensive national database or inquiry system that alerts law enforcement officers when a concealed carry permit is counterfeit, expired, or has recently been revoked.

In fact, some states also fail to adequately track their own permit issuances and revocations. The Georgia Bureau of Investigations has confirmed it cannot determine when a state permit-holder breaks the law; recently enacted Wisconsin law prohibits law enforcement from accessing permitting information during traffic stops or for purposes of investigating potential criminal activity; and Florida issued permits to more than 1,400 people who previously pleaded guilty or no contest to felonies, 216 people with outstanding warrants, 128 people with active domestic violence injunctions, and six registered sex offenders.

The police officers in our states are already putting their lives on the line when they stop potentially dangerous individuals on the street. Forcing these officers to conduct traffic stops and other police activity with no ability to authenticate every other state's carry permits would pose an extraordinary and unnecessary risk.

Forced reciprocity is opposed by national organizations including: the International Association of Chiefs of Police; the Major Cities Chiefs Association, representing the police chiefs of 62 major U.S. cities; the National Network to End Domestic Violence, representing 56 state and territorial domestic violence coalitions; the Association of Prosecuting Attorneys; as well as various state law enforcement associations and law enforcement leaders. Forced reciprocity is also opposed by Mayors Against Illegal Guns, a bipartisan coalition of more than 650 mayors who collectively represent 54 million Americans.

We urge you to stand up for America's law enforcement community and oppose S. 2188 and S. 2213.

Sincerely,

Eric T. Schneiderman

New York Attorney General

Kamala D. Harris

California Attorney General

George Jepsen

Connecticut Attorney General

David M. Louie

Hawaii Attorney General

Lisa Madigan

Illinois Attorney General

Douglas F. Gansler

Maryland Attorney General

Martha M. Coakley

Massachusetts Attorney General

Catherine Cortez Masto

Nevada Attorney General

Ellen Rosenblum

Oregon Attorney General

Kathleen Kane

Pennsylvania Attorney General-Elect



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Politics/Elections; US: New York
KEYWORDS: banglist; newyork
You know the BS is getting thick when the left invokes states' rights.
1 posted on 12/07/2012 1:20:33 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

We were talking the other day about reciprocity....My beef is with driver’s licenses. One license obtained where you live. When it’s time to renew, if you have moved, you renew it there. Of course the “tax scam” is plates and registering the vehicle every two years (in my State).


2 posted on 12/07/2012 1:26:34 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: neverdem
Only 10 AGs signed that letter.

Only two of them were surprising.

3 posted on 12/07/2012 1:45:56 PM PST by wideawake
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To: neverdem

Eric Schneiderman is a first class d***head. As New Yorkers, we deal with this anti-Constitution AG on a daily basis.

I’m sorry the rest of you have to be subjected to his unparalleled stupidity on a matter such as this.


4 posted on 12/07/2012 1:48:16 PM PST by GnL
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To: neverdem
...he says "would force states like New York, and the other co-signing states, to abandon their own gun laws by allowing out-of-state visitors to carry concealed firearms based on their home state's less safe laws, rather than those of the state they are entering."

Can't allow the plebs a taste of freedom. That would spoil everything. BTT.

5 posted on 12/07/2012 1:50:46 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: neverdem

Don’t know why the NY AG is making such a big stink. There’s a snowball’s chance in Heck Obama would ever sign such a thing.


6 posted on 12/07/2012 1:53:44 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: GnL

So we should pass a law here in Colorado that doesn’t recognize New York drivers licenses.


7 posted on 12/07/2012 1:54:15 PM PST by RockyMtnMan
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To: wideawake; Mrs. B.S. Roberts

I believe that this list of gun-concerned Attorneys General also constitutes a list of the states with most felony gun violence. Also the most left laying. (they leaned so far they fell over)


8 posted on 12/07/2012 1:55:29 PM PST by CaptainAmiigaf (NY TIMES: "We print the news as it fits our views")
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To: Billthedrill

by allowing out-of-state visitors to carry concealed firearms based on their home state’s less safe laws, rather than those of the state they are entering.”
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
For starters, I would really like to see states like VA tell NY, MD, etc “Why do you expect US to honor your same sex marriages when you will not honor our right to carry.

Even got a slogan (everything needs a slogan or rhyme these days)

“YOU RECOGNIZE OUR RIGHT TO CARRY,
WE WILL RECOGNIZE YOUR RIGHT TO MARRY”.


9 posted on 12/07/2012 1:58:17 PM PST by xrmusn (6/98 "It is virtually impossible to clean the pond as long as the pigs are still crapping in it")
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To: neverdem
As it currently stands, the Second Amendment guarantees U.S. citizens the right to own firearms. But each state is permitted to place its own restrictions on the types of firearms -- and the manner in which they're possessed -- that people are allowed to own.

So will these same AGs allow "states rights" restrictions on women voting, slavery, cruel and unusual punishment, self-incrimination, or things not even in the Constitution like gay marriage or abortion?

Of course not, there's the catch-all "equal protection" argument!

It's only your 2nd Amendement Right that's... not really a "right" but... more like guidelines... (says Capn' Barbosa)

10 posted on 12/07/2012 2:00:50 PM PST by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: RockyMtnMan

For years when people frist started to get drivers lic. They were only good in one state.

Full reciprocity took years to come about same with vehicle registration.

Most people are not aware of that fact because it was some time ago.


11 posted on 12/07/2012 2:05:43 PM PST by riverrunner
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To: neverdem

Truthfully I am apprehensive about forced reciprocity, because I fear it opening up a can of worms.

There are a very large number of reciprocity agreements between the states over all sorts of things—with no federal hand in any of it. But this is not to say that the federals would not love to horn in to these agreements if they could.

Right now they do horn in if there is great disagreements, such as over water in the western states. And once the feds decide something, good or bad, the states are stuck with it.

I can almost guarantee that if federal gun reciprocity is passed, the very next efforts will be to make “homosexual marriage”, “abortion rights”, “hate crimes laws”, and other such things as binding federal reciprocity agreements.

And lord knows what all else. So, at least for the time being, it is less harmful to just know that you cannot transport guns through some parts of the US, where the constitution means little compared to the corruption of government.


12 posted on 12/07/2012 2:06:14 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Pennies and Nickels will NO LONGER be Minted as of 1/1/13 - Tim Geithner, US Treasury Sect)
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To: neverdem

“You know the BS is getting thick when the left invokes states’ rights.”

No kidding.


13 posted on 12/07/2012 2:07:20 PM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: wideawake
Only 10 AGs signed that letter.

Hmmmm. One of them isn't even an AG yet.

14 posted on 12/07/2012 2:07:20 PM PST by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: wideawake

“Only 10 AGs signed that letter. Only two of them were surprising.”

I assume you are talking about Nevada and Oregon. Their respective AGs are very liberal women, so their inclusion is actually not at all surprising.


15 posted on 12/07/2012 2:10:24 PM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: ought-six
I was thinking of NV and PA.

PA is a state with many firearm owners, who often find themselves in trouble in NY and NJ.

Shocked and pleased that Chiesa did not sign.

16 posted on 12/07/2012 2:13:36 PM PST by wideawake
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

My thoughts exactly.


17 posted on 12/07/2012 3:06:53 PM PST by MachIV
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To: neverdem
As it currently stands, the Second Amendment guarantees U.S. citizens the right to own firearms. But each state is permitted to place its own restrictions on the types of firearms -- and the manner in which they're possessed -- that people are allowed to own.

What a metric load of horse hockey.

Why then can't each state place its own restrictions on the 1st Amendment? The 4th? The 6th? 7th? 8th?

The truth is, the Constitution is just a convenient fiction. It is no longer operative. The Left has control, and is just deciding its moment to fully seize power, and how many deaths they are willing to entertain to get it.

18 posted on 12/07/2012 3:16:24 PM PST by backwoods-engineer ("Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the gov officials committing it." -- K. Hoffmann)
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To: neverdem

State’s rights to repress rights. They’re consistent.


19 posted on 12/07/2012 3:47:37 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: neverdem
Nonsense from the article: "These bills would create a lowest common denominator ..."

Now, that would be a problem, wouldn't it.

Imagine if our Founders had been so foolish as to provide a common expectation like, for example, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". That would really be a problem.

The anti-gunners' heads are going to explode unless Obama is able to change the present make-up of the Supreme Court.

20 posted on 12/07/2012 4:34:24 PM PST by William Tell
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To: riverrunner

The biggest scam about drivers licenses is that all those many years ago when they were first passed, they only applied to commercial drivers. Because it was widely known and accepted that you have a common law right to travel the public roads. Sadly 70+ years of propaganda have convinced many that you must ask permission from the government to travel.


21 posted on 12/07/2012 5:22:58 PM PST by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: neverdem

“...Kathleen Kane
Pennsylvania Attorney General-Elect...”

Well, gee, It didn’t take long for this effing witch POS Kathleen Kane to show her true colors.

We’ll see how a couple thousand letters to the Republican Governor and House and Senate, and every gun rights organization in the state organizing against her sticks this right up her ass if she tries her liberal freak BS with Pennsylvania gunnies.

Game on, sweetie.


22 posted on 12/07/2012 6:25:50 PM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: William Tell

“...anti-gunners’ heads are going to explode...”

Oh, what nice imagery you paint....


23 posted on 12/07/2012 6:28:04 PM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: RockyMtnMan
So we should pass a law here in Colorado that doesn’t recognize New York drivers licenses.

Yes. Time for the gloves to come off.

24 posted on 12/07/2012 6:37:20 PM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: neverdem

Sure.

Then you would need a separate drivers, marriage or any other license when you visit a state.

Actually, the marriage license thing was an issue in the early 1900’s when biracial couples would travel through parts of the South.


25 posted on 12/07/2012 8:23:59 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy; sickoflibs
Truthfully I am apprehensive about forced reciprocity, because I fear it opening up a can of worms...

I can almost guarantee that if federal gun reciprocity is passed, the very next efforts will be to make “homosexual marriage”, “abortion rights”, “hate crimes laws”, and other such things as binding federal reciprocity agreements.

fed regs are near universally B...A...D !!!

full reciprosity would eventually lead to the *least common denominator* being a fed standards for CC written by NY, Ill and Cal, which will trump the rest...bet on it...

26 posted on 12/07/2012 8:37:55 PM PST by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3; yefragetuwrabrumuy

Wouldn’t that law force states to recognize and honor same sex marriages from liberal states?

I understand the attractiveness of this bill for gun permits but then why have states to begin with?


27 posted on 12/07/2012 8:46:46 PM PST by sickoflibs (Has Bohner caved yet? And called it historic again?)
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To: neverdem

Another Harvard educated Jewish lawyer who hates “little people” and thinks he’s just the answer for all our problems.


28 posted on 12/08/2012 4:58:59 AM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: neverdem
Forced reciprocity is opposed by national organizations including: the International Association of Chiefs of Police; the Major Cities Chiefs Association, representing the police chiefs of 62 major U.S. cities; the National Network to End Domestic Violence, representing 56 state and territorial domestic violence coalitions; the Association of Prosecuting Attorneys; as well as various state law enforcement associations and law enforcement leaders. Forced reciprocity is also opposed by Mayors Against Illegal Guns, a bipartisan coalition of more than 650 mayors who collectively represent 54 million Americans.

In other words, the Reciprocal Right to Carry law is good for America, good for patriots, good for freedom, good for liberty....and bad for the socialist despots who want to destroy our Constitution & rule the country as dictatorial elitists & fascist-socialists.

29 posted on 12/08/2012 6:12:23 AM PST by rcrngroup
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To: Sacajaweau
In Texas we get to renew ours every single friggin year. Plus we have to have our vehicles "inspected" every single year. For "safety" of course.
30 posted on 12/08/2012 6:40:31 AM PST by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: backwoods-engineer

“As it currently stands, the Second Amendment guarantees U.S. citizens the right to own firearms. But each state is permitted to place its own restrictions on the types of firearms — and the manner in which they’re possessed — that people are allowed to own.”

“As it currently stands,” the US Supreme Court incorporated the second amendment among the states. Although simply ignored by some states and municipalities, the second amendment simply formalizes the human right to self-defense and the USSC has acknowledged that right as well as affirmed that it applies everywhere. No state is “permitted to place (any) restrictions” on that basic human right. The AG of NY is wrong—but when has that ever stopped govt officials from oppressing people? I am sure there are legal “experts” out there who can cough up a convoluted legal argument denying this but the intent of the 2nd amendment and the rights of human beings remains clear.


31 posted on 12/08/2012 7:05:51 AM PST by iacovatx (Conservatism is the political center--it is not "right" of center)
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To: neverdem
"You know the BS is getting thick when the left invokes states' rights."

That's always entertaining when Lefties start sounding like 'originalists'. When it serves their ends, even Nancy Pelosi can sound like a Constitutional Scholar.(well, that may be taking it a bit too far)

"all of those guns found their way to New York without the help of a reciprocity law."

Did the guns just all walk up to NY all on their own? Maybe they flew. Perhaps an SUV gave them a ride.

32 posted on 12/08/2012 7:20:56 AM PST by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: neverdem
Michigan DemocRATS have recently asked Øbozo to "[hold] back federal money for a new international bridge project to Canada and a badly needed mass-transit program in ailing Detroit" in retribution [as punishment] for a Michigan vote making Michigan a right-to-work State.

"Punishment" of States by threatening to withhold a pittance fraction of the taxes paid by State citizens to the FedGov must CEASE! Remove that threat, and we remove the FedGov's sole effective power over the States.

Therefore...

It is time for all sovereign "Red" States to begin "Economic Secession" from the "Blue Hellhole" cities and the tyrannical Federal regime.

The first step in "economic secession" should be declaration from all Red States that

"No 'order' (tyrannical fiat) issued by the Federal Executive Branch or any 'regulation' issued by any Federal agency of unelected bureaucrats shall bear the force of law within this State."

The second step in the "economic secession" of the red states from the blue hellholes should be a "Red State 2nd Amendment Reciprocity Bill".

The next step in "economic secession" should be Red State bills declaring all taxes paid by that State's citizens or businesses to be State Taxes -- with the State legislatures releasing to the Federal Government only those funds required to support that State's fraction of essential services (i.e. National Defense) that are Constitutional Federal responsibilities.

States should then be required by their citizens to reduce their citizens' taxes commensurate with the difference between taxes now paid to the FedGov and the pittance ratio of "Federal" funds returned to the state in the prior five years.

IOW, "Red" States should immediately refuse to pay for FedGov waste -- and should should cut their State citizens' taxes commensurate with the savings.

And then, Red States should begin a sequence of withholding their shares of any monies going to worthless or harmful agencies such as IRS, EPA, ATF, HHS, TSB, etc., etc., etc... And then, the States should reduce their citizens' taxes by a proportionate amount.

It is time for "Economic Secession" by the Sovereign Red States!


33 posted on 12/08/2012 9:19:05 AM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias... "Barack": Allah's current ally...)
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To: neverdem

Note that the “second step” in #33, above, specifically addresses the issue of this thread...


34 posted on 12/08/2012 9:21:21 AM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias... "Barack": Allah's current ally...)
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To: neverdem

2A legislation is the big stumbling block of centralization. The idiots know if they pass an egregiously stupid law some states will not only ignore it they will completely circumvent it. Kind of like select fire rifles and MGs without the dog license. (FTR I want a M-249) Since America is being reduced to a combination day care center/Jim JOnes cult with people desperate to get out of this show of freedom could set off a rapid demise of the baby sitting regime.


35 posted on 12/08/2012 9:31:28 AM PST by junta ("Peace is a racket", testimony from crime boss Barrack Hussein Obama.)
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To: neverdem

One question: Does Schneiderman carry in New York or in ANY state he visits?


36 posted on 12/08/2012 3:24:05 PM PST by Candor7 (Obama fascism article:(http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html))
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To: neverdem; All

I went to the Village Voice and looked at the comments. Amazingly, all 13 of them were against Mr. Schneiderman.


37 posted on 12/08/2012 4:46:18 PM PST by marktwain
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