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SOCIAL SECURITY NOW CALLED 'FEDERAL BENEFIT PAYMENT'/ENTITLEMENT!
emal | 12/8/2012 | email edited by Ib Jensen

Posted on 12/08/2012 4:42:06 AM PST by IbJensen

Have you noticed, your Social Security check is now referred to as a "Federal Benefit Payment"?

The government is now referring to our Social Security checks as a “Federal Benefit Payment.”This isn’t a benefit – its earned income!

Not only did we all contribute to Social Security but our employers did too.

It totaled 15% of our income before taxes. If you averaged $30K per year over your working life, that's close to $180,000 invested in Social Security.

If you calculate the future value of your monthly investment in social security ($375/month, including both your and your employer’s contributions) at a meager 1% interest rate compounded monthly, after 40 years of working you'd have more than $1.3+ million dollars saved! This is your personal investment.

Upon retirement, if you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive $39,318 per year, or $3,277 per month.

That’s almost three times more than today’s average Social Security benefit of $1,230 per month, according to the Social Security Administration (Google it - it’s a fact).

And your retirement fund would last more than 33 years (until you're 98 if you retire at age 65)! I can only imagine how much better most average-income people could live in retirement if our government had just invested our money in low-risk interest-earning accounts.

Instead, the folks in Washington pulled off a bigger Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madoff ever did. They took our money and used it elsewhere. They “forgot” that it was OUR money they were taking. They didn’t have a referendum to ask us if we wanted to lend the money to them.

And they didn’t pay interest on the debt they assumed. And recently, they’ve told us that the money won’t support us for very much longer. But is it our fault they misused our investments?

And now, to add insult to injury, they’re calling it a “benefit,” as if we never worked to earn every penny of it. Just because they “borrowed” the money, doesn't mean that our investments were a charity! Let’s take a stand.

We have earned our right to Social Security and Medicare. Demand that our legislators bring some sense into our government –

Find a way to keep Social Security and Medicare going, for the sake of that 92% of our population who need it.

Then call it what it is: Our Earned Retirement Income.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government
KEYWORDS: demorats; everthingevilindc; evilobamaregime; republicrats; socialsecurity; vanity
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What Congress did was to commit a criminal act! Like greedy hogs they stole our money to pay for their sophomoric schemes that turned into something they'd like to forget.

We're not constituents to these big shots, rather we're just some bothersome thing whose comments they do not hear and whose letters they do not read.

1 posted on 12/08/2012 4:42:13 AM PST by IbJensen
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To: IbJensen; muawiyah

So much for your claim that Social Security is not an entitlement.


2 posted on 12/08/2012 4:48:48 AM PST by dinodino
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To: IbJensen

I wonder why they did that?


3 posted on 12/08/2012 4:53:32 AM PST by goldi
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To: IbJensen

Friend, you and everybody who gets a SS check are going to have to get used to the fact that you were taxed all your working life, and there is no return on that tax paid.

You now get an entitlement check from the government, which will continue until they can’t pay it anymore. After that, you won’t get it anymore because we’ll be out of money

Plan accordingly.


4 posted on 12/08/2012 4:59:16 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: IbJensen

It’s issue, actually, is something they we might be able to cram back down Congress throat....


5 posted on 12/08/2012 4:59:25 AM PST by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: mo

This issue...


6 posted on 12/08/2012 4:59:56 AM PST by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: goldi

Now any effort to cut entitlement spending will be reported as an effort to cut Social Security. That sounds like a public relations win for the far left.


7 posted on 12/08/2012 5:01:39 AM PST by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: IbJensen

Be careful about calling it “earned income” They may charge you an additional medicare tax on it.


8 posted on 12/08/2012 5:01:50 AM PST by Daveinyork (."Trusting government with power and money is like trusting teenaged boys with whiskey and car keys,)
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To: mo

“It’s issue, actually, is something they we might be able to cram back down Congress throat....”

A social security check by any other name is still an entitlement.

Folks seem to not understand that we are out of money, and that SS is not going to be paid as folks are expecting or planning. Enjoy each check as it comes. The next one might not. We are that broke!


9 posted on 12/08/2012 5:03:12 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: IbJensen

The goal is to enslave a permanent majority of Americans on the ‘Rat EBT welfare-slave plantation.


10 posted on 12/08/2012 5:04:30 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: dinodino

You can call a shaved goat a bulldog if you want, but it’s still a goat.


11 posted on 12/08/2012 5:06:01 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: IbJensen

They ought to call it what it actually is - a ponzi scheme.


12 posted on 12/08/2012 5:06:01 AM PST by Hoodat ("As for God, His way is perfect" - Psalm 18:30)
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To: RFEngineer

Well said.


13 posted on 12/08/2012 5:08:27 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Republicans have made themselves useless, toothless, and clueless.)
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To: IbJensen

The SS revenues were confiscated years ago to be spent in the general fund. It’s all IOUs in the SS pot now. People in the private sector are in jail for such shenanigans.


14 posted on 12/08/2012 5:12:43 AM PST by VRWC For Truth (Roberts has perverted the Constitution)
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To: mo

Funny thing. This is the exact complaint government workers have regarding their pension plans in individual States. In many states it is the same Ponzi scheme. State government workers paid into their pension funds for years, and for years the central State government robbed those pension funds using them as a piggy bank for their pet projects and favorite welfare programs. And the workers get screwed.


15 posted on 12/08/2012 5:13:02 AM PST by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: VRWC For Truth

SS=Schutzstaffel


16 posted on 12/08/2012 5:15:31 AM PST by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: IbJensen
Social Security gives you a millionaire's savings account, but a paupers pension. There is no government program in the history of the world that is cost effective.

I live at the end of a half mile long dirt road that serves seven houses. One of the owners collects money to have the road chlorided in the summer for dust control. It's a microcosm of a typical government program:

Two of the home owners don't pay because they are old, and on pensions. A third owner refuses to pay. The four of us remaining pay the whole bill. I receive zero benefit, because I'm on the end, and no one drives by my house. I pay to "do my duty" for harmony in the community. The houses receiving the most benefit don't pay anything. The remaining three get a little benefit. Their attitude is that "it really doesn't cost me that much". (It's a hundred bucks a year.) I presume they think it is cost effective.

This is just a 7 household VOLUNTARY program. Imagine multiplying it by 300 million.

17 posted on 12/08/2012 5:18:30 AM PST by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: IbJensen
Only fly in the ointment I see in that email is this:

"..at a meager 1% interest rate compounded monthly, after 40 years of working you'd have more than $1.3+ million dollars saved!"

They were never going to get a return of 12.68%/yr. - doubt you would either as an average over 40 years.

However, the point is a very valid one - you would have been lots better off, and the country would have grown much more, had that money been invested in relatively safe investments rather than being in the hands of the money grabbing baboons that are in Washington, and the irritating hyenas that devotedly cheer them on!!!!!

18 posted on 12/08/2012 5:22:11 AM PST by DelaWhere (Better to be prepared one year early than one day late!)
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To: dinodino

Entitlement? After all these years I thought it was a “social contract” ...


19 posted on 12/08/2012 5:23:51 AM PST by Susquehanna Patriot (U Think Leftist/Liberals Still Believe That Dissent = Highest Form of Patriotism?)
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To: IbJensen

“It totaled 15% of our income before taxes. If you averaged $30K per year over your working life, that’s close to $180,000 invested in Social Security.

If you calculate the future value of your monthly investment in social security ($375/month, including both your and your employer’s contributions) at a meager 1% interest rate compounded monthly, after 40 years of working you’d have more than $1.3+ million dollars saved! This is your personal investment. “

Sorry, I’m not able to calculate the same numbers. Not even close.

Try this saving calculator and post your numbers:

http://www.calcxml.com/calculators/savings-calculator-growth?skn=#calcoutput

Thanks


20 posted on 12/08/2012 5:24:17 AM PST by GaltTrader
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To: IbJensen

Without doing the math i am pretty sure u compounded the total contribution as a lump sum when in fact one needs to take each years contribution, multiply by 1% then add next years and compound the new sum by 1% for as many years as u wish.
1,3 million using 1% seems a stretch.


21 posted on 12/08/2012 5:25:27 AM PST by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: IbJensen
This post is a tragic example of why the country is lost. IbJensen clearly understands that Social Security and Medicare are failed Ponzi schemes. Yet, incredibly, like so many others, IbJensen is still looking for the same Government that stole the money to make it right!

I do not mean to be unsympathetic. Indeed we as Americans are just beginning to realize the devastation wrought by unconstrained government. But facts are facts. And wishing things different cannot change the facts. And a failure to recognize and deal with the facts only prolongs the agony. Here are the facts.

To describe Social Security and Medicare as failed Ponzi Schemes is not exactly correct. Social Security and Medicare were very successful Ponzi Schemes ... for the perpetrators. Social Secutiry and Medicare are exposed Ponzi Schemes. And the victims are just now becoming aware of the deception.

The most difficult thing for the victim of a Ponzi Scheme or any other fraud to do is to come to grips with the fact that the money is gone! No entity can bring it back, least of all the government that stole it from you.

It is in fact extremely counter productive to do computations like you see in this post describing how much money one might have had had the Ponzi Scheme not been a Ponzi Scheme. This just invites the victim to continue to fall prey to the perpetrator. Or worse yet, seek recompense at the expense of others (which seems to be where we are headed).

America is currently in the thrall of an extremely dangerous demagogue. And sadly the opposition party is scant better. The only hope is for a majority of Americans to stop fretting over their lost money and start fretting over their lost Liberty. Let the process begin here.

22 posted on 12/08/2012 5:27:10 AM PST by trek
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To: IbJensen

ANYTHING the feds oversee is an “entitlement” by design - how else can they steal from those who contribute in order to give it to illegals?


23 posted on 12/08/2012 5:29:52 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: IbJensen

Since when is 1% compounded monthly a meager or realistic interest rate, especially considering that you consider it to be risk free?

A realistic risk-free rate would be 3% per year, bringing your grand total to less than double the amount you’ve put into it—and a fraction of the ‘earned’ benefit you’re claiming.


24 posted on 12/08/2012 5:30:03 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: IbJensen

I also pay income taxes on my Federal Benefit Payment. Do people pay taxes on their food stamps?


25 posted on 12/08/2012 5:33:21 AM PST by ThanhPhero (Khach hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: RFEngineer

“You now get an entitlement check from the government, which will continue until they can’t pay it anymore. After that, you won’t get it anymore because we’ll be out of money.”

This would have been true if we were on the gold standard. In theory, if you’re on the gold standard you can’t print more money than can be backed up with gold at the legally set price. However, LBJ wanted to carry on the Viet Nam war and engage in the largest social program ever attempted. (Actually, it was a wealth redistribution scheme, but that’s a whole article.) To do this without raising taxes LBJ printed more money than the US had gold to back it at the then legally set price. Charles de Gaulle, then the head of France, realized LBJ had done this and he started buying dollars and converting them into gold. President Nixon took us off the gold standard to prevent de Gaulle from draining the national treasury. After that, with money no longer limited by the amount of gold you had the money supply growth became exponential. In 2008 Obama doubled the money supply and in 2009 he doubled it again. The government is currently creating 87 billion dollars per week.

One might ask, if the government can create money without taxation, why does Obama want to raise taxes? The answer is to remove wealth from private hands and put it exclusively in government hands and the hands of specially selected cronies.


26 posted on 12/08/2012 5:36:50 AM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: trek

Excellent summary!


27 posted on 12/08/2012 5:37:51 AM PST by Susquehanna Patriot (U Think Leftist/Liberals Still Believe That Dissent = Highest Form of Patriotism?)
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To: trek

Outstanding post. Spot on.


28 posted on 12/08/2012 5:43:36 AM PST by EternalVigilance (America's creed: Our rights come from God, not men. Governments exist to secure those rights.)
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To: VRWC For Truth
The SS revenues were confiscated years ago to be spent in the general fund. It’s all IOUs in the SS pot now.

You can thank, LBJ. He wanted to use the money to fight the war on poverty. To lift the poor into the middle class so that they could be contributing members of society.

Now that they squandered the fund they decided that the SS insurance was really just a tax and the money they returned was an entitlement. Then they decided that the charity previously known as welfare was also an entitlement and lumped all the entitlements together.

Now it turns out they can't afford all these entitlements so they want to cut back on the social security/medicare portion but no mention of cutting back on the war on poverty portion.

29 posted on 12/08/2012 5:44:10 AM PST by oldbrowser (Put Obama in check, now.)
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To: IbJensen; All

Plunder & death...socialism & totalitarianism. Plunder built on the backs of dead Americans. Those who looted us should be dug up and given a proper hanging. Those living looters are roaming the halls of congress.

We need more dead Americans to fund it BUMP! (Obamacare)

Get me out of the FORCED debt/death matrix. Give me my money back. I’ll save for my own retirement and medical care. Myself and my family will determine how my last days are lived and they will not go into debt to extend my life unless they decide otherwise...and...

this side of America’s debt burden is eliminated and the rest of you and your children and grandchildren aren’t taxed/paying for it.

“It is impossible to introduce into society a greater change and a greater evil than this: the conversion of the law into an instrument of plunder.” - Bastiat 1801-1850

See the socialist time-bomb that will explode into totalitarian control at the time of their choosing...here...

http://www.usdebtclock.org

“Socialism Is Legal Plunder” - Bastiat 1801-1850 (They have FORCED us into this mess)

BIG GOVERNMENT IS CRONY SOCIALISM

DEFUND DEFUSE DISMANTLE DEPOPULATE

Socialists/Totalitarians are useless eaters of our productivity

live - free - republic


30 posted on 12/08/2012 5:45:10 AM PST by PGalt
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To: RFEngineer

Ditto! It’s always been a tax, no more, no less.
Fleming vs Nestor- (SS as a ‘social contract’)
=The Court ruled that no such contract exists, and that there is no contractual right to receive Social Security payments. Payments due under Social Security are not “property” rights and are not protected by the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment. The interest of a beneficiary of Social Security is protected only by the Due Process Clause. (wiki)


31 posted on 12/08/2012 5:51:13 AM PST by griswold3 (Big Government does not tolerate rivals.)
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To: IbJensen

FICA is just another tax, that’s all.


32 posted on 12/08/2012 5:51:47 AM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: trek

Thank you. My Dad is just like this poster. I’ve pointed out that he didn’t pay the amount of TAX he claims he did AND he isn’t getting HIS money back, he’s getting his grandchildren’s money. Doesn’t hear it.


33 posted on 12/08/2012 5:53:45 AM PST by Varda
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To: trek

New tagline...


34 posted on 12/08/2012 5:53:45 AM PST by EternalVigilance (Yes, America, life outside the socialist cell door is risky, but liberty is worth it, believe me.)
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To: VRWC For Truth

The funds weren’t confiscated willy nilly ~ they were accounted for.


35 posted on 12/08/2012 5:56:16 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: trek

Does that mean it is not too early to start shooting people????


36 posted on 12/08/2012 5:59:14 AM PST by eartick (Been to the line in the sand and liked it)
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To: trek

The US government has assets ~ it can make good on all its obligations. This is NOT Greece!


37 posted on 12/08/2012 5:59:32 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: IbJensen

“If you calculate the future value of your monthly investment in social security ($375/month, including both your and your employer’s contributions) at a meager 1% interest rate compounded monthly, after 40 years of working you’d have more than $1.3+ million dollars saved! This is your personal investment.”

You obviously didn’t read the bill before you passed it.

It’s a direct tax, property of the government to dispose of at will. This was ruled on by USSC more than 70 years ago, IIRC.

Any talk of savings or investment is just a silly lie.


38 posted on 12/08/2012 6:00:12 AM PST by Jim Noble (Diseases desperate grown are by desperate appliance relieved or not at all.)
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To: Gen.Blather

The need for a reserve (off gold, silver, property) is a requirement for private issuers of currency. That used to be quite common.


39 posted on 12/08/2012 6:02:02 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: IbJensen

SS is undeniably a ponzi scheme but your numbers need some revising.

The SS portion of the employment tax was 12.4% not 15%. 6.2% was taken from you (until recently) and 6.2% from your employer.

You cannot assume an “average” income and then calculate the SS taxes paid on this average. I would bet that nearly everyone earned considerably less 40 years ago. If you made $15,000 per year when you first started working in 1972 that was decent money but your total SS payment was only $1860 per year. Interest paid on the oldest money would have earned the most but the oldest money was also the smallest. Saying that income was steady at $30,000 per year makes the calculation easier but puts a disproportionate amount into SS in the early years and exagerates the interest calculation.

Your assumed rate of interest of 1% per year compounded monthly is much lower than the actual rate of return. This can be seen at: http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/intRates.html

Although the entire SS scheme was based on the faulty assumption that the number of workers contributing to the scam would always greatly exceed the number drawing out money, another fatal reality is that retirees withdraw much more than they ever contributed even taking into account the interest paid on that money. And that was especially true for retirees in past decades. My grandfather would have contibuted very little before he retired and started receiving payments in the 1960’s.

SS will be “fixed” by means testing and raising the retirement ages. I’m 60 and I expect that the SS retirement age will move ahead just enough every few years so that I will stand little chance of getting a SS check before I die. But the SS problem will be fixed - if you call swindling a generation out of their savings a “fix”.


40 posted on 12/08/2012 6:02:02 AM PST by zagger
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To: IbJensen
Not only do you pay into it...When you do get it...They steal from it for Medicare Part B.

Every month, they will take $104 out of our SS checks next year....That would be most of us who are over 65) That's 11.1% of MY SS check. The "rate" was $3 for Medicare Part B when it started.

As usual, Seniors are getting scr**** royally because most of that "stolen money" is likely paid to Medicaid folks...Ahhhhhh...Socialism !!

41 posted on 12/08/2012 6:03:33 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: RFEngineer

I agree.

Though prepare to get slammed as all the fair weather “fiscal conservatives” scream “ITS MY MONEY AND I WANT IT NOW!”


42 posted on 12/08/2012 6:04:52 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Varda

If he’s heavily armed you really ought to refocus your arguments to other topics though.


43 posted on 12/08/2012 6:05:19 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Jim Noble

Any definition that depends solely on the Supreme Court is, in the long run, worthless ~ they drift and meander and change their minds ~


44 posted on 12/08/2012 6:06:58 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: zagger
Present value analysis is useful for comparing projects but it's really useless for predicting value.

There are all sorts of reasons lifespan might change ~ and inflation can definitely change the picture, but so can deflation.

As long as the US government owns 30% of the land in this country, and an even higher percentage of the subsurface mineral rights, there will be funds to pay all obligations.

45 posted on 12/08/2012 6:10:51 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

“Any definition that depends solely on the Supreme Court is, in the long run, worthless ~ they drift and meander and change their minds ~”

As worthless as a social security “social contract”.

The Supreme Court can rule any way they wish, we still don’t have the money.


46 posted on 12/08/2012 6:12:45 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: griswold3

Yep.


47 posted on 12/08/2012 6:12:45 AM PST by EternalVigilance (Yes, America, life outside the socialist cell door is risky, but liberty is worth it, believe me.)
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To: trek

You are exactly correct! Thanks.


48 posted on 12/08/2012 6:12:54 AM PST by zagger
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To: muawiyah

“As long as the US government owns 30% of the land in this country, and an even higher percentage of the subsurface mineral rights, there will be funds to pay all obligations. “

Sort of a “reverse Louisiana Purchase” sale to foreigners with Social Security recipients as the sole beneficiary? I don’t think so.


49 posted on 12/08/2012 6:18:14 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: IbJensen

So, the mugger wants you to call him generous for not taking your clothes, and you’re complaining?


50 posted on 12/08/2012 6:19:04 AM PST by Empire_of_Liberty
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