Skip to comments.Disowned for Voting Republican: Part II
Posted on 12/08/2012 8:54:54 PM PST by Behind the Blue Wall
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But that was my whole point, you just threw a pile of all kinds of topics into a massive vanity, and said, 'discuss', they are all hot button issues, some of them of serious disagreement her, yet you mashed them all into a single vanity and say, 'have at it boys'.
By the way, I'm a terrible and lazy writer, so my posts seem harsher than if I was talking to you, I admire that you are such an engaged writer and thinker with your FIL, and I'm excited about your political growth, I do wonder if you are going to become a conservative, or split the difference and choose to stop between conservatism and radical leftism, by switching to calling yourself libertarian.
Thanks for putting in the effort to read it. Hopefully, there is a tiny bit of his consciousness that is still open to another view.
It was laways the Republican administrations that appointed blacks on the basis of merit rather than pandering. You could always count on the Democrats to throw blacks into their designated posts at domestic graft factories like HUD and Education while the Republicans were first to appoint blacks to critical posts like Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Advisor.
What I could never figure out is why blacks fall for the rat con job?
It's a good question. There are a couple of places where I seriously part with libertarians. I don't think it came through in this post as much as my last one, but I have no patience for any thought of appeasing radical Islam. I think it's absolutely the current-day equivalent of the Nazi movement in the 1930's, and we made a big mistake being "isolationist" then, and I don't think we should do the same today. Wherever on Earth they stick their heads up out of the ground, we should act as quickly as possible to cut it off.
I also split with most libertarians on abortion. Social issues where we are talking about consenting adults doing X, Y, or Z voluntarily, and nobody is directly affected, OK, those I'm probably more libertarian. But abortion is the taking of an innocent life, and it is the first priority of government to protect human life.
I do think that Judeo-Christian ethics and morality are the foundation of civil society and our legal system, but only at the more abstract level. When you start getting into more detailed interpretations of religious views, I'm not sure that encoding those interpretations into law is a good idea.
But then again I am legendary in my personal circles for leaving bloody stumps on myself where there once were the "limbs" of relationships.
I agree with others, that your FIL is most likely a hopeless cause. He’s spouting all the MSNBC talking points without missing a beat, including some of the outright laws.
I have a very diverse group of friends, including a couple black and mixed conservative friends. However, I also have a couple black liberal friends who are just as hopeless as your FIL. They completely disregard politics for four years, but come election season, my Facebook starts to get flooded with ridiculous MSNBC/Huffpo garbage. I tried to engage them about what the deficit/debt/Obamacare, etc will mean for our future, but they just kept spouting the typical liberal bull shit.
They kept playing the “we care about others” card that liberals always fall back on when they know they don’t have an argument. I pointed out the fact that neither of them actually gave to charity, so they just believe that government forced redistribution equated to charity. I’ve come to the conclusion, that many liberals are hopeless causes, especially the ones who went all in with Barack Obama for a second term. They honestly believe that they are noble and just, and conservatives are evil and greedy.
Oh, and I’m not quite ready to say that the government should not provide any sort of social safety net. Ideally, nearly everyone should be taken care of by a good economy, strong families, and charity, but realistically, there might still be those who fall through the cracks, and in a modern, relatively affluence society, I don’t think they should be left for dead. Now, that’s nothing similar to the Democrat policy of basically bribing as much of the population as possible with social welfare programs in order to create an ever-growing class of permanent Democrat voters.
I think those were fantastic responses!
I've made that argument a number of times. It ought to be obvious that Dem's want blacks "in their place" no matter their merit, whereas Republicans actually give them a real shot if they're up to it (not that Powell was, unfortunately).
You’re probably right, but there are others being cc’d who are more “persuadable”, so to speak.
How can you be a race traitor? I mean unless you side with these guys and their plans to take over earth or something...
Because there is only one race, and that is the Human race.
Did you know that there is more genetic difference between two cows in the same pasture than there is between a Inuit in Greenland and an aboriginal in Australia?
Humans are all really closely related to each other to the point that all humans aren't even the same species, we are all of the same SUB-species!!!! Homo-Sapiens-SAPIENS!
Did you know that what we consider "African" or "Black" are actually several genetically distinct groups of people! There are the Bantu, the San or the Khosian, and many others others that were once considered "black" but are very distinct in both culture and genetics!
Some fun facts for you to ponder!
Congratulations on another well thought out and written explanation of who you are vis-a-vis your father-in-law.
Please tell him that “symbolism” (i.e. pride in the first black president) isn’t going to get people jobs, feed them, house them, or educate them. Successful businesses that need workers are going to do this, and Romney, in Bain Capital and other positions, did just that.
I’m sure the “good Germans” who liked the Swastika symbol later had second thoughts when they ended up in total ruin, starvation, poverty, etc.
I like your position on nominating or choosing a person because of their varied skills and background rather than focusing on one narrow skill or political orientation.
My father-in-law, after a distinguised career in the military (WW2 combat and Cold War intelligence), got a job in which he headed the logistical efforts for the 1976 Bicentennial celebration in Wash. D.C. He was responsible for housing, transportation, port-a-potties, etc., the whole kit and kiboodle. He did a very good job, yet when he wanted to promote a young black employee in his office up to a higher position with future growth because of his skills and work ethic, it was denied.
My father-in-law, a white guy, recognized the talent that this black young man had in his professional work, and wanted, like you, to promote him, yet the black establishment didn’t want to allow anyone to be a possible challenge to their incompetence. My father-in-law retired a little later, after 20 years. He had had enough of incompetence and corruption.
During his military career, his ability to pick the right people to carry out dangerous missions, or to support him (Iwo Jima, etc) while he went into action, helped ensure that he had a good chance for survival. Color wasn’t even a consideration, but in DC, “color” ruled and this city is still suffering from it (blame most of it on Mayor/Crackhead/convict Council Marion Barry and his supporters (who sound like your father-in-law).
Don’t compromise your beliefs and principles. We need more people who think like you, disregarding color, political affiliations, etc. to pick the best person for the job, to help those who need it despite the establishment’s invested interest in protecting the status quo, and to stand up to those who would politically abuse you for taking a principled stand.
Welcome to FreeRepublic. We have a ball here discussing issues, with a helluva lot of humor you won’t find on the Left, and often we provide ideas and solutions to issues talked about.
Welcome to the “Wonderful World of Free Thinkers”. There is always room at the inn.
Very well said. I sincerely wish I reason and write a tenth as well as you. Well done. The only beef, the progressive income tax is a great evil. It is the foundation st one for most of the present government excesses. It is a marxist construct that needs to be expunged from our nation.
Well if you’d read the whole thing instead of my “Cliff Notes” (not that I blame you!), then you’d have read that I wrote this:
“I don’t believe that there is in reality such a thing as separate “races” such that I could take pride in being a member of one versus another: we are all members of the human race, varying infinitely in color, phenotype, hair texture, culture, etc. “
I'd certainly be in favor of getting rid of it entirely, but if there's an income tax, I think making it entirely flat from the richest to the poorest would be a pretty hard sell.
I think you did an admirable job explaining to some one who is clearly confused. Your father-in-law ignores facts he doesn’t like. He paints with a broad brush to fundamentally condemn white people in general and particularly harshly to those who do not agree with his world view.
It is too bad that he exhibits that 60s attitude that says if you are a person of color you HAVE to be liberal or else you are just a slave. To bad his plantation is run by the likes of Harry Reid and unions thugs like Trumpka.
My guess is that this will not have a happy ending but I wish you good luck in your efforts. Perhaps he will eventually see the light
I know the voting data and the supposed link of blacks and social conservatism and how it fails for republicans, but I think some information is missing.
I still think that social conservatism is the way to reach blacks.
Black voters are different than other voters in ways that we don't need to try and figure out, because right now, we are focused on simply winning 30 to 40% of black voters, we need that just to know that life makes sense.
I won't won't worry if the democrats consistently win 55 or 60% of the black vote, that is just normal voting, but I am deeply disturbed to see 94 and 96% numbers, that forces me to question what racial elements are driving them, it shakes my faith in individualism and my confidence in what kind of person I am talking to when I am talking to people who are black, whether they are serving me lunch, or testing my eyesight, or writing tickets.
As a Texan, or a Southerner who has had relationships with blacks, unlike some of what we see from people in many regions of the US, I know what it is like to have a black rancher, or bible thumping conservative black, dress you down for being flaky or having too long of hair, or seeming like an unfocused teen, I also know the arguments I had with my black friends and in black bars.
I think the party leader republicans need to start hanging out with people, blacks, Hispanics, blue collar whites. Republicans need to be actually conservative, real life conservatives.
If someone isn't a racist, then they can argue their point of view, especially on social issues, and the issues of the day with anyone, and everyone.
When I talk to wealthy blacks, well, I'm at a disadvantage, I try to talk taxes and how the fundamentals of economic conservatism sustain the machine of economic growth and equality, and education is a good one also if I have the time, then we end up agreeing on education, but when I talk to guys like me, I'm in my element.
During my life, in whatever state I was living in, when I can sit down in a bar and talk to black guys like me, then they often agree that the democrat party is for sissies and weirdos, not real guys, and it is the social issues that we all agree on.
If you want to win votes from people who no longer even see you, then get into some arguments, go mano e mano with them, tussle, fight, take on their current figure heads and leaders in one on one challenges, see blacks as equals, not 'them', engage the guy, get the juices flowing, remind him of who he is in his heart, I know that the average black welder is not thinking that we need more 'gay' stuff in America.
Thanks. It’s pretty hard to believe someone with a straight fact could admit that they are supporting Obama because of race, and then turn right around and condemn others for supposedly opposing him based on race, when they are doing no such thing.
I’ve lurked at FR for a couple of years, so I’m pretty well aware of the gem that this place is.
Works fine for me. But there may be a problem going the other way.
I too have some Indian...Mohawk on my mother’s side. French Canadian too. On my Father’s side there’s a lot of Euro. Depending on which branch of history you follow, “Lenhart” is an alternate spelling of “Lionhart” as in “Richard The..”. So My blood is a bit blue.
If you go the other way, it’s an alternate spelling of “Leinhardt”, which puts me historically somewhere around Berlin.
So I am eternally undecided if I should look down my nose at people, Rule them, scalp them or simply invade and conquer.
I tell ya windy. It’s not easy being me.
So very true. My original email was in fact more focused on social issues. My FIL just ignored that completely and I do know why: he is in his heart absolutely a social conservative. Probably if you went down the line, he'd be more socially conservative than 75% of people out there. So he just brushed by all of that completely. But I completely agree that if there were more Republicans/conservatives who were out there "mixing it up" and challenging black people about the actual beliefs and policies that they are lining up behind, we'd see a lot more movement. The GOP-e just cedes the field to the Democrats however, and nobody really challenges the notion that Republicans don't care about or worse don't like blacks.
Some years ago I had thought that the race thing was over. That we had moved beyond that.
I have now determined that race is a problem—too Black people.
In my opinion O has divided this country like no one else ever. It’s a shame.
Every America bleeds red white and blue.
But there are those that still want to claim race for whatever reason.
But now I believe it is not our problem. It is the problem of those that are Black.
We adjusted and grew. Now is the time for all of us to adjust and grow.
Well if youd read the whole thing instead of my Cliff Notes (not that I blame you!), then youd have read that I wrote this:
I dont believe that there is in reality such a thing as separate races such that I could take pride in being a member of one versus another: we are all members of the human race, varying infinitely in color, phenotype, hair texture, culture, etc.
Yeah I read that which I why I put in the quip about the only way to actually BE a race traitor would be to side with aliens or something!
As a guy who is pretty much fed up with pansy republicans, I’m starting to think that they don’t even know any blacks, I’m starting to see that Reagan is dead, and that perhaps Romney really is “the republicans”.
Which state are you, or your FIL in?
Here is an old post of mine on republicans.
“”I went to a Young Republican meeting once, taken by a guy that I had helped become a minor player locally, (he could speak in public, and I used to know a lot about politics and talking points and current events and such), this was during an important, earth-shaking period, where we were all in the trenches (1995/1996? or so?), anyway, every guy there of the 30 or so (intimate conference table), were white and male, the only non-white was columnist Joseph Perkins who was to speak to us.
I was stunned, amazed. I asked the guys where their wives and girlfriends were, and they said it was a male group only, it was insane at that time of both republican ascendancy, yet of losing ground demographically,
I asked them if they had black and Hispanic buddies at work, if so, then where the hell are they? (I used to be passionate about government and politics) and they mumbled and seemed a little confused, they were shallow, protected, idiots.
Me and Perkins ended up afterwards basically shaking our heads at how maddeningly bloodless and rigid (clueless) the men there were, although they were all relativity young.
Ive never been a republican, and I can tell you that some of the cliches apply to them, many of them live in little worlds of limited contact with the wider America, and Romney was the ultimate version of that, he was almost straight from that Jason Robards underworld of A Boy and His Dog.””
I think if someone flipped a switch and whites stopped cowering every time someone screams ‘racist’ we’d be half way to a positive outcome.
The joking exchange above between Windy and I would get me banned and him thrown under the bus of the majority of sites and social situations we live in today.
“Why” that would happen is obvious. Someone would take the dreaded ‘offense’ and the racist charges would fly.
Some know I have a black son in law. And if you look at me on paper, I’m the posterboy for Redneck America. Mountain born, tobacco chewing, truck owning/off-roading hick. With a blond/blue eyed daughter.
I’m the guy that should be donning a white sheet and lynching my son in law. According to the vision of us crafted by the left.
But for some strange reason, I don’t seem to agree with them. And our conversations are rather straight up with no PC/BS.
Come to find out, he despises the Sharpton types worse than I do. Which is pretty incredible as my loathing is boundless.
My point? White America can either deprogram themselves from leftist created fear (of talking to those ‘dangerous’ black people) or not. But if they do, they just might discover that the box the left put us each in is as nakedly transparent as Emperor Obama himself.
Same people. Different views perhaps, but not so ‘very’ different views when you get to the core of it all.
And skin tone has not a tinkers damn to do with any of it.
I have long said that the pivotal difference between liberals versus conservatives+libertarians on the issue of wealth is illustrated by this hypothetical example:
If next year, every citizen in the nation was to somehow become 5% richer than they are this year, the reactions would be:
I keep hoping that if they eventually come to see the truth in this example, they might have one of those "glass half full vs glass half empty" epiphany moments. But I've not had a lot of luck.
BTW, those of us who've spent 1000's of hours over the years debating liberal relatives/colleagues/eOpponents/etc, have not been able to escape hearing the exact same worn-out worthless cliched Lib talking points, and the exact same cutesy sarcastic "slams" against us, spouted over and over and over again. So it's handy, and even fun, to come up with some good rejoinders against these cliches, and be ready to go with them.
I'd appreciate hearing some good lines that you all have found to be useful retorts. I'll start off by posting a few I use:
LIB: Ghandi said, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
ME: Ghandi was wrong. It is "No Consequences For Eye-Gougers" that makes the world blind.
LIB: Strength Through Peace!
ME: You have it backwards! "Peace Through Strength!"
LIB: Jesus said, "Let they who are without sin cast the first stone" [to justify someone's sin]
ME: But do you know what the very next verse says? [blank expression on their face] He said to the adulteress, "Go, and sin no more!"
LIB: The definition of a [pick one: Puritan, Conservative, Religious Righter, etc] is someone who lays awake at night worrying that somewhere, somebody is having fun.
ME: Really? Well, did you know that a [pick one: Libertine, Liberal, Democrat, etc] is someone who lays awake at night worrying that somewhere, somehow, someone is living a life that is woefully under-regulated by the Federal Government.
One more: This retort isn't in the category of "Lib vs Con," and isn't one I made up, but I can't resist including it. (No, I've never had the guts / chutzpah to use this!):
FOUL-MOUTHED PERP: "F*CK YOU!!"
RETORT: "Oh, I wouldn't do that if I were you. You'd never be satisfied with your dog again".
Well anyway, I'd like to see others' useful retorts!
Sad but true.
Great read! Thank you for the vanity posting. Your responses to the various statements of your FIL were great!
I definitely agree that the Left has white people cowering in the corner when it comes to race, and that’s a big part of the problem. Just last night, I got into a conversation with a neighbor. It turns out that he’s descended from the Scottish people who were sent over by the British to hold the Ulster Plantation in Ireland for the Crown. I started to talking about the history of that group, and he said something to the effect that they have a lot of answer for in history. That’s so wrong; Scots-Irish have been on the bottom of basically every society that they’ve been a part of, never part of the ruling class, never the beneficiaries of much in the way of privilege or wealth. But here he is apologizing for them as if they were the worst oppressors in history.
School is now in session ;)
“I keep hoping that if they eventually come to see the truth in this example, they might have one of those “glass half full vs glass half empty” epiphany moments. But I’ve not had a lot of luck. “
The question you ask in anything this situation is “Why do you revel in the poverty of others? Do not tall me how you dispise the so called rich. Tell me and the people here why you are happy about ‘winning’ at the expense of the less fortunate.”
One of the lessons I learned in debating libs (at some fairly high levels of influence) is that everything is a performance to them. They ‘play to the crowd’ in an effort to sway the opinion of the emotions of the crowd...and no one wants to be the only person IN that crowd to go against groupthink.
Fact: High School never ends. the majority of people who go to their reunions revert to the people they were on the day they graduated. Only the Alphas break the mold. And it’s likely they were Alphas the day they graduated.
Likewise, in groups of adults, the crowd dynamic is and always has been that the crowd defers to the person who can play them like a fiddle and give them a false sense of belonging.
The key is to humiliate that person before the crowd using his own words to do it.
The crowd then turns on him and follows the strong horse/new Alpha.
You do not have to BE an Alpha. Just play one on TV. And as a conservative plugged in to the factual reality of the world around you, you are pre-equipped to do it.
You just need to ‘do it’.
In a general sense, the flesh and blood people are the conservatives in the GOP.
Governor Sarah Palin is the leader of the conservative portion of the GOP.
Sarah Palin’s husband in 2008 was union, recently blue collar, a tribal member, all of Sarah’s children are tribal members, as is her grandson.
Who do conservatives love, and republican leadership hate?
One think the left fears more than anthing on that subject is historical knowledge by the masses. It’s why the Communists made such a big deal about usurping education.
Truth: We all oppressed ourselves and all around us.
Fact” Blacks sold each other to Arab slave traders. Whites bought them. Indians murdered whites. Whites returned the sentiment. Spain conquored and was conquored. Vikings raped (as in rape-rape, Whoppi ) and the Germans pillaged.
Not a single group or race on the planet has not been oppressed/killed/tortured/et all by another.
And if that sunk in, we’d be another good way to ‘racial harmony’.
Point being, go back far enough and we are ALL guilty, historicly speaking. Thing is, who has the supernatural right to draw the line and where? How can one group be reperated today, (say for slavery as it’s a recent example) while another continues to be oppressed and made war upon (The Jews) by yet ANOTHER group?
Liberal ideas require the lack of knowledge and history o the part of those they attempt to bullshit. Or it just does not work.
They work to ensure that lack of knowledge. And so, it works.
I was so eagerly anticipating Palin v. Obama it's not funny. I still think she would've won. Too many backstabbers in the GOP though, can't blame her for staying out of it.
And too many backstabbers right here on FR. And other ‘conservative sites.
None of them will admit to it. But they STILL go out and spread BS about here here and elsewhere every time she hits the news.
Can’t have her gain any power after all. Gotta knock her down just like the libs do. Of course, it’s really liberals doing it.
And likewise, not a single group or race on the planet has not oppressed/killed/tortured another group. We are all descended from victims and killers. In fact, it's much more likely that we are descended from killers, that's why we're here, and somebody else's descendants are not. Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond has a couple of interesting chapters on how the Bantu people of Africa wiped out dozens, maybe hundreds of other African tribes, and became the predominant people on the continent. Virtually all African-Americans are descended from Bantu people.
Most voted with Romney, I think the percent of whites who voted for Romney is higher than voted for Reagan even during his landslide elections. The forty or so percent who didn’t are made up primarily of extreme leftists, single women/feminists, and gays. Those groups aren’t going to be much easier to reach than blacks.
But anyway, here's an excerpt from the Amazon description:
Through engrossing chronicles of the challenges the Scots-Irish faced, Webb vividly portrays how they developed the qualities that helped settle the American frontier and define the American character.
Born Fighting shows that the Scots-Irish were 40 percent of the Revolutionary War army; they included the pioneers Daniel Boone, Lewis and Clark, Davy Crockett, and Sam Houston; they were the writers Edgar Allan Poe and Mark Twain; and they have given America numerous great military leaders, including Stonewall Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant, Audie Murphy, and George S. Patton, as well as most of the soldiers of the Confederacy (only 5 percent of whom owned slaves, and who fought against what they viewed as an invading army). It illustrates how the Scots-Irish redefined American politics, creating the populist movement and giving the country a dozen presidents, including Andrew Jackson, Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Ronald Reagan, and Bill Clinton. And it explores how the Scots-Irish culture of isolation, hard luck, stubbornness, and mistrust of the nations elite formed and still dominates blue-collar America, the military services, the Bible Belt, and country music.
Both a distinguished work of cultural history and a human drama that speaks straight to the heart of contemporary America, Born Fighting reintroduces America to its most powerful, patriotic, and individualistic cultural groupone too often ignored or taken for granted.
There is a fascinating book I have recommended dozens of times. “The 48 laws of power” by Robert Greene. It should sit on the bedstand of every person that even thinks they might really be a conservative.
It explains so much and so well about power, what it his and how the most powerful people in history have wielded it. For good and evil.
But this and your tribal example really come back to that whole education thing. People have been programmed to believe it’s not ‘cool’ to know things.
“Why” that is, is covered in the 48LP ;)
Then again, judging by your OP, I’ll bet you’ve read it.
Funny you should mention that, because I did suggest exactly that, that he read Webb’s book. I hadn’t heard about the Bush incidence, what a jerk. But yes, excellent book. One of the few books I’ve read in my life that fundamentally changed my understand of the world around me.
I haven’t, but I’ll check it out.
Now, thats nothing similar to the Democrat policy of basically bribing as much of the population as possible with social welfare programs in order to create an ever-growing class of permanent Democrat voters.
That is essentially what the news media and Dems blasted Romney for saying after the election. Thank you for acknowledging that the Obama regime did secure votes by giving taxpayers’ dollars to non-contributors in record amounts.
I keep loaning copies out and have yet to get them/one back ;)
Please do. It will put so many things we see politically speaking into rock solid perspective. On the Dem AND the GOP side. Hell regarding any power struggle.
It’s a very dense work and extremely cerebral. But it is SO good.
Your father in law wrote: “ Wisconsin is one clear example where, to pay for the very generous tax breaks given to the rich”
You should have pointed out that there is NO SUCH THING as “paying for a tax cut”. A tax cut isn’t an expenditure. A tax cut is the government stealing less from the people. Or letting them keep more of what they earn. It’s their money in the first place. It belongs to those who earned it. Not to government. Giving tax cuts to people doesn’t cost government one thin dime because its not spending one thin dime when tax cuts are enacted.
Wow, you actually CUT stuff out?!?! That’s a hell of a LONG exchange, but I get the drift. When you said you don’t think you’re as conservative as others here, trust me that you’re not alone! I was accused of being a member of the “GOP-e,” a term I didn’t know until I figured out it was the GOP establishment! Bwahaha! Little did my “FReerepublic Attacker” know — I am about as conservative as they come and yet I was attacked as not being conservative enough, so take heart, enjoy the exchange of ideas, ignore those who appear to be the arbiter of the orthodoxy of your level of conservatism since they seem to be the self-appointed Popes of their own religion.
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