Post of the day.
Posted on 12/10/2012 7:09:25 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Texas is waiting for President Obama’s reaction to a petition demanding it be allowed to secede from the United States. They may have to keep waiting.
Sunday marked the last day for Texas’ petition to secede from the union to gather 25,000 digital signatures, the number needed to warrant a response from the White House. The virtual petition achieved that goal four weeks ago. Now it’s up to 119,209, but still no word from the Oval Office.
A White House official told ABC News in November that it would respond to the petition, following a procedure that demands they address any entry to the “We the People” site that rallies the requisite amount of support. On Friday, the White House said they had no prediction for when they might put out at statement.
Even if the White House steps up to the plate this week, it’s possible they will dodge the question, opting to excuse themselves by claiming it does not fall within their jurisdiction.
In the days after President Obama was reelected, several states filed petitions seeking independence alongside Texas. And these petitions gained clicks fast.
By mid-November, every state had at least one petition with more than 150 digital vows of support registered with the White House. Some visitors to WhiteHouse.gov started counter-petitions, asking that the president stop states from seceding.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
You got to shoot at a federal fort to get the Union to pay attention to your articles of secession.
There is no such thing as a secession petition to the white house.
You have petitions in the states, delivering signatures to the State Secretary of State (at least in Texas)
But I believe the WhiteHouse.gov website (under 0bama) established the petition tool as a vehicle for anyone to use regarding any matter.
RE: You got to shoot at a federal fort to get the Union to pay attention to your articles of secession.
You know what happened when they did that...
Why do we need a friggin petition in the first place?
Just do it and tell Zer0 to go to hell!
Post of the day.
I have always been taught that Texas, because it was a free republic when it willingly joined the union, could leave whenever it decided to do so.
*************
It was called "Bull Run"
We don’t have to answer to you.
We’re your government.
Now go pay your taxes - your government is broke.
Post of the day.
We were taught the same thing when I was going through school in Beaumont.
No it wasn’t, I’m sure I got on “another” watch list for signing it.
+1
Exactly! Why the F do you need this faggy petition for? You secede, Odumbo sends troops, troops enter Texas for BBQ and beer, and defends Texas against Odumbo.
Texas State Constitutional Convention File.
Lincoln disagreed with that theory the last time they tried to leave.
You wouldn't be the first to make that mistake.
Reality check here folks. Do you seriously think the Federal government would ever allow this to happen. Sorry, but it’s time to wake up from this little dream.
I’ve read elsewhere that there are over 750,000 signatures to the petition in all 50 States but that was about three weeks ago.
As it should be.
The secession hissy-fit is just that. Be an American. Be a Conservative. Let’s start a Conservative party but it requires not throwing a tantrum. Did all those people take their balls and go home as kids?
Tell that to the Founding Fathers, thank you very much.
"That was just pillow talk, baby."
Obama is adding their names to his mailing list. Those who signed the petition will be asked to contribute to his presidential library fund.
Those who signed the petition will be asked to contribute to his presidential library fund.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Very true....and those that DON’T contribute will contribute more than they ever dreamed.
Conservative party? And do what exactly? Win the next one? right.
Those that are for secession would be much better off supporting a Constitutional Convention. Same for those wanting to form conservative parties, tea parties, etc.
Anyone that thinks we are going to regain our liberty by winning national elections and reversing socialism is wasting valuable time and effort. Most of this country is controlled by the red states. We only need a few more to call a convention and take our country back. The founders gave us the option for the states to call a convention for the EXACT situation which we now find ourselves.
Like it or not, the time to correct the course of our country through elections has past. We are on step two and that's the states calling a Constitutional Convention. Step three is brute force.
You mean to tell me the administration lied! Why, I never....
You have been taught incorrectly. Read the Constitution of Texas of 1876 which was the Constitution adopted after the War Between the States and approved by the Federal Legislature. No right to secede!
Why ask permission? Have we accepted that obama is a dictator? Even the white house says it’s not their jurisdiction. So, what’s the next step? I’ll answer that. It would be to elect a governor who can remember a list with only three items on it.
Why ask permission? Have we accepted that obama is a dictator? Even the white house says it’s not their jurisdiction. So, what’s the next step? I’ll answer that. It would be to elect a governor who can remember a list with only three items on it.
Actually, Texas was allowed in by a treaty that was never ratified. I’d think that would outweigh any old civil war no matter who won.
Direct quote from a post yesterday:
“Holder, however, rejected this argument. “Essentially, the 10th Amendment is a dead letter,” Holder said. “As the Civil War demonstrated no power asserted by any state can stand against the might of the federal government.”
So let me paraphrase:
“Those pussies! Those wuss states! They actually believe their people and legislatures have anything REAL to do with government? What a bunch of tools....
They’ll do what we SAY, not what we do!!!”
We should all be writing our congressmen, writing our state government, and protesting in the streets calling for this and for calling the democrat party , the media, and Obama which all equals the democrat party for what they are election stealing villains , takers of our freedom and birthright.
We should at least name the threat = the democrat party.
What if, come 1 January, Texas workers suddenly found the federal boxes on their pay check stubs zeroed out? That is, more or less, what secession would entail, is it not (physical security of Pantex not considered)? Imagine: a country sustained by sales taxes!
I make it a point to ignore the White House. The man who lives there is not my president.
That may have been the case the first time, but I’d bet more than one beer that it wasn’t the case the second time.
>>>Reality check here folks. Do you seriously think the Federal government would ever allow this to happen. Sorry, but it’s time to wake up from this little dream.
Hmmm. I don’t know. Spread the military thin enough in lots of foreign wars and there’s not much left at home to prevent a state from seceding.
I hope Texas keeps this dream alive. As far as I’m concerned, the more the federal government has to worry about regarding the possibility — or even a hint of a threat — of internal revolt, the better.
Start ignoring federal regulatory edicts and chase the EPA out of the state when they arrive under 10th Amendment rights...that’ll get their attention.
“I have always been taught that Texas, because it was a free republic when it willingly joined the union, could leave whenever it decided to do so”
Tell that to the Southern States that WILLINGLY JOINED the Union. When they tried to leave Lincoln sent his murdering hoardes South and 4 years later almost a million Americans were dead. All the Founding Fathers believed in secession. Every last one of them. The murdering madman Lincoln said to hell with Jefferson, Madison and Washington. They were all wrong. He was right. We have all been slaves to the Federal government since April 1865, when Lee surrendered to Grant.
Adding to your post...
It’s called an Article 5 convention.
“...on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States...”
IMO, this convention could also abolish the federal government.
IF this were to work...In theory, the Texas Legislature in 2013 would have to suspend regular business, or wait till the regular session ended, and the governor (Perry) would have to call a special session to address this issue of separation from the Union first and foremost...
To which the democrats (in this State) would not attend that debate...Which would be fine by me...
Let’s say this all goes down the way some wnat it too...
The state passes this legislation, or puts a referendum on a ballot for a special election to appease the citizens of this state, it passes and the governor signs it...
Our US delegation could then be recalled, ambassador to be assigned, etc etc etc...
Territorial waters and borders to be defined and certified...
Looking beyond the obvious need for a defensive force to be organized from the remnants of the Federal DoD forces who decide to stay in Texas before the United States demands it’s military hardware to be removed from within our borders...etc etc etc...
I would expect that our state investments, both private and government, assets will be confiscated as well...
We need to anticipate that the infrastructure, both industrial, and commercial businesses to decide whether or not to remain within our borders and either keep on chugging, or pull up stakes and get out because of US Federal pressures (i.e.: tax their arses for remaining in Texas)...
The economic impact on Texas, if it decides to go alone will be tremendous...But, I think the alternative is just as difficult...
We will see a massive (personal) migration, both in and out of our boundaries...But, I see a lot of heavy industry coming back to do business with our Republic in short order...But I would not put money on it just yet...
I do not see any kind of military threat to this state if it did go this way...It would not benefit anyone to proceed in that direction at this time...
So...
What needs to be well defined is this...
What are the specific political/economic/social ramifications, both positive and negative for such decisive political action by our state government???
Do we continue to utilize a weakened American economy (i.e.: US dollars) to be our form of currency???
Will the money (revenue/taxes) that we normally would send to D.C. (Feds) be enough to offset the immediate economic impact that a separation from the Union???
(Note: Texas is a revenue negative State, meaning that we send more taxes to D.C. than we get back in federal assistance for various programs...)
Also, the folks that decide to stay in the Republic of Texas, may be impacted more by this because of the need to establish infrastructure, that in some ways might be detrimental at first, because if we model our Republic after the United States model, we may very quickly discover that that model is a failed one at best, and be behind right from the gert go...So something else, or some type of graduated system and priorities might be necessary to keep from sinking too fast, too soon...Think about that...
I think there is a lot to be thought out first, and there is a lot more I would like to say, but it is sufficient to say that I, personally, am not opposed to the idea of separation...We are in some pickle to begin with...And we may very well need to actually build our own lifeboat first before we abandon ship...
But, I do not see the political courage in Austin in anyone we have elected to represent us in that Capitol introducing, much less do the prep work needed to really make this work...
So I do not expect, nor does the administration or any other government (elect) official even giving this petition any creedense or answer at all, anytime soon...
Why should they??? they have already turned this issue into a fluke, a joke and anyone associated with it as racist bigots and sour grape losers, of an election where they failed to unseat a very popular President (Santa Claus) that gives his supporters trinkets for their support...
All in all, this is a nation that HAS lost its virtue, both spriritual and human virtue, in that right is wrong, and wrong is right...
Does Texas, or any other state considering this endeavor deserve God’s mercy, grace and blessings to re-constitute under his guidance and laws??? Think about this one, because this is most important!!!
Again, I am not opposed to the idea, but we had better get our act together, before wasting our time with sending a “petition” to King George expressing our grievances, that will, and has fallen on deaf ears already...
It is probably a GOOD thing that the petition was “Ignored”.
We would not want to wake up one morning and find out that the entire state of Texas had been nuked by Obama because his feewings were hurt.
Also remember that a Constitutional Convention can and would be represented by political elements that are detrimental to our goal of restoring virtuous government representation and processes, in the form of government we have at this time...
So I am cautious about what some folks hope for on this particular issue...
The mechanisms for what some want in this discussion about this petition, those goals desired, need significant preparation (socially, fiscally and morally) more than what a (this) petition (might) generate(s)...
BTW, I am not a big Bible thumper type person...But the moral, the virtuous, mindset is one that needs to be thought (prayed) about first and foremost...
We have a government and people that have lost their way...Restoring that virtue may be what repairs the union we have in place now...But that may not happen overnight, and even if it did, would it be sustainable???
Think about it...
Just for fun, and not to make lite of the issue, a part of me itches for a fight...I do want to engage the evil that has consumed and literally spit out the courage and virtuous nature of the founding principles of what this country was founded upon...That is my dilema...It is both a personal and spiritual battle to me...But I need to find something that removes my doubt, my concern about any ounce of futility to what will result from my decision...And that may be more common to others here as well...
So...
What are YOU prepared to do about this???
And...
What are YOU willing to sacrifice to achieve this victory???
These are personal and rhetorical question each and everyone of you need to choose to answer...
The reality of your decision will end up being a personal future YOU (and you alone) will have to accept responsibility for, and more important, be accountable for...
Some of us have made a decision before, and that which we have taken an oath to defend has been cheapened by others with alterior motives and agendas...
So another question is this:
Do we allow the secular and un-virtuous citizenry, not just their representatives, destroy the Union as we understand its duties to be???
Or do we demand that those in the future be very clear and unambiguous to what and where the station of Federal government should return to???
As long as we still have the mechanism to effect change every two years (Federally), we can still do this...But those that desire to represent us need to re-commit to the originalist foundations and restrictions placed upon that office (government entity) within our ratified Constitution...
And deviation from that virtuous principle(s) should be rejected with ALL due prejudice!!! Nothing less should be acceptable...
BTW, if anyone likes what I have written here today wish to do so, in whole or in part, you are very welcome to do so, take this to your elected officials, whther they be democrat, republican or independent...These are your words, these people need to hear directly from you...
I intend to take these words to my congressman when he comes back from D.C. for the Christmas holidays...I have already set up an appointment to see him in his district office, and I intend to deliever this “idea” to him, all kidding aside...
Then put him in a headlock, and give him a big “noogie” for being such a political putz...;-)
We can still turn the ship around, we just need to encourage a change of perseption and re-focus these representatives up and down the chain of command before it is too late...I still believe in the Union, but I do not see a permanent/negative outcome from a separation movement within the state of Texas, or any other state at this time...
This is just my opinion and thoughts, therefore open for flames, and other sources of agreement or dissagreement...Any hurt feelings are of no personal concern to me, I grieve for the lives that have been lost in maintaining this Union, if we fail to correct the course this nation is on right now...
So if I were to Bible thump, I would say this...
God does want to bless and love this nation, but we need to return to a virtuous mindset before I believe we will return to his good graces...That is where our fight really lies...
Q: Doesn’t the Texas Constitution reserve the right of Texas to secede? [BACK TO TOP]
A: This heavily popularized bit of Texas folklore finds no corroboration where it counts: No such provision is found in the current Texas Constitution[1] (adopted in 1876) or the terms of annexation.[2] However, it does state (in Article 1, Section 1) that “Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States...” (note that it does not state “...subject to the President of the United States...” or “...subject to the Congress of the United States...” or “...subject to the collective will of one or more of the other States...”)
http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm
READ MORE ABOUT TEXAS Secession...
that's different...Texas was an independent republic, actually a separate country when it elected to join the union. If Canada elected to join the union, I do believe that they would have the right to unjoin it down the road.
You don't ask for permission to secede from the federal government. Texans are joining the Texas Nationalist Movement in great numbers - meetings are being held in many Texas cities. The Texas legislature meets in January and that is where TNM is working to get a bill submitted.
Join us on the steps of the State Capitol on January 8th!
It's possible, however very unlikely. The Convention would be and should be limited in scope. And keep in mind this process really just puts amendments on the table that then must be ratified by the states. This is the part that those that fear a Constitutional Convention do not understand. Yes libs may attempt to propose left wing amendments but the kicker is they would NEVER be ratified by all the red states. This is where and how we WIN! This is how we take our liberty back and put the federal government back under the rule of law. It's taken over a century for the left to find and exploit the weaknesses in the original text of the Constitution. Just think what an amendment that clarifies and strictly limits the federal governments authority over interstate commerce would do to defang the beast. Half the government laws and regulations would disappear overnight. My own opinion is to ELIMINATE the interstate commerce clause completely. If anyone is interested in learning more about amending the Constitution through convention I strongly suggest downloading and reading this from the Goldwater Institute.
http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/article/amending-constitution-convention-complete-view-founders-plan-part-1-series
You can download the series in .pdf format. The link is just below the executive summary.
Your fears are unfounded. Yes there would be some attempts from the left to introduce left wing ideas but the left is so outnumbered they would not get off the ground. Even if they were able to propose some liberal amendment it could NEVER be ratified.
This is the very reason the democrats block any attempts to bring a balanced budget amendment to a vote of the people. THEY KNOW IT WOULD BE RATIFIED BY THE STATES AND THEY WOULD BE POWERLESS TO STOP IT!
If you fear a Constitutional Convention you do not understand the weakness of the left. The simply DON'T have the numbers. They never have. They fear the will of the people more than anything.
A Constitutional Convention allows the will of the people to be voted on.
Secession is a huge loss even if it succeeds. Why on earth would we want to give up huge parts of the country? Wouldn't it be better to actually have California as part of our country AND have them abide by our Constitution? Imagine ALL the states actually following the constitution. We can have that again.
“Your fears are unfounded.”
I have no fear...What ever gave you that idea???
I seriously question YOUR confidence, and YOUR enthusiasm to convene such a mechanism to “change” the Constitution “as-is” to somehow better fit today’s environment...
I DO NOT trust YOU to even be considered to be a delegate to such a gathering to promote such an agenda...If that is what YOU seem to be extremely excited about in this case...
HOWEVER, the Constitution “as-is” IS very much up for debate (discussion) to fomulate a BETTER UNDERSTANDING of it’s original intent, application, regulation and restrictions placed upon the government WE the people send our peers to do the countries business...
And somehow YOU believe getting ALL the people together to tell the elected cadre (seated now) what they are going to do will somehow force them to do, what we tell them to do???
Your confidence in the left’s weakness is absolutely unfounded...Did you get some sort of memo to the “real” results of the general election last month???
And you feel it is acceptable to allow representation from that “left” to sit at the table to discuss how to better do things in D.C.??? I reject/refuse to introduce a process to give the left ANY chance to throw their monkey wrench into the already damaged gearbox...
Doing so would absolutely allow it to never come to fruition a Balanced Budget Amendment at this particular political time and environment!!!
As a point of order, what state do you live in??? I believe that would explain a lot about you and your motivations...
Now for the real debate...
“Secession is a huge loss even if it succeeds. Why on earth would we want to give up huge parts of the country?”
[Giving up??? I hope you realize, and understand that my state (Texas) is a “revenue negative” state...We send more tax dollars to D.C. than what “we” get back in Federal funds for manicures and pedicures, and that most of “us” in the know, feel it is time to send less to the Feds and other states to benefit “their” welfare state and all the entitlements and overspending, waste, fraud and other nonsense that revenue supports...You are most correct to note that getting the budget balanced IS a very good and proper thing to do!!! And until that is accomplished, in our regular processes, I reject any attempt to muddy the waters with changes to the standing procedures, and risk allowing it to be that much more difficult to do so...]
“Wouldn’t it be better to actually have California as part of our country AND have them abide by our Constitution?”
[”Really??? I have a bookie in Vegas that wouldn’t entertain those odds...California needs to turn itself around, and not on the backs of the rest of us who have been placating the abuses they perpetuate on the rest of us at the same time...I do not as much blame the people of that state, but more the culture of corruption and unrealistic expectations THEY have that somehow THEY deserve more and more help from Uncle Sam to stave off the inevitable collapse, and unsustainable feduciary vacumn that is draining the rest of the country with it...And THEY are not alone in those abuses!!!]
“Imagine ALL the states actually following the constitution. We can have that again.”
[You ARE CORRECT!!! But until we have a real return to “virtuous” people representing us at ALL levels of government, we cannot expect that to happen, there is too much menusha and nonsense going on that honestly I do not see anything but a total economic collapse will make an impact on the psychy of our population...The idea of somehow there is this assumption that government can fix a problem IT ALONE CREATED, is begining to wear down the intelligence of the majority of people on both sides of the aisle...And democrat/liberal/progressive/socialists are sucking up the remaining intelligence this country has in its coffers!!! To me that is unacceptable, and that is why I believe it is proper to discuss a separation from this failing system to get the message across...]
In conclusion, I have only one request...
Do not question my loyalties, patriotism, or fears again...
I do not fear any man, but I do have concerns, that the fears and agendas of others, with good intentions, that might gain enough traction with people of politically apathetic attention spans, will base their emotional responses and votes on the messages with underlying destructive, but well-meaning intents...
I have to respect the left in only that they have the attention of many people who DO NOT pay attention to what is going on past American Idol, Survivor and other nonsense coming through the boob tube these days...
Why give them a chance to make it even harder to correct the course of this ship???
/rant
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