Skip to comments.Women in combat a really, really bad idea
Posted on 12/11/2012 5:41:35 PM PST by ReformationFan
America's daughters should not be sent into combat. Period.
Part of the reason is philosophical: we want to live in a nation where we expect men to use their strength to protect the women in their world, not the other way round.
But there are immensely practical reasons as well. God simply did not design women to have the same size, upper body strength, or stamina as men. It's just plain stupid to ignore this biological fact of nature.
The Washington Post, for instance, recently ran a story on the "throwing gap" between men and women, which has stubbornly persisted for the half-century that brain-numbed researchers have been exploring it. Girls age 14-18 throw only 39% as far as boys.
Although the Post never makes this connection, this fact is no longer an idle curiosity when the issue at hand is not throwing rocks or baseballs but things that explode. Reports from the Marine training base at Parris Island indicate that only 45% of female Marines could throw a hand grenade far enough to keep from blowing themselves up. If you're in a foxhole with a woman about to toss one of those, you're not sure whether to treat her as friend or foe. It's one thing to fall on a grenade thrown by the enemy. It's quite another to have a grenade thrown by a friendly fall on you.
The Marines are trying to defy logic, common sense, biology, and the Laws of Nature and Nature's God by admitting women into its Infantry Officer Course. Only two of the 80 eligible female Marines volunteered for the course this year. One washed out on the first day, and the second had to drop out within two weeks for "medical reasons," most likely some muscular or skeletal injury.
(Excerpt) Read more at renewamerica.com ...
Battle of Khe Sahn, some of the positions were over run by NVA. During the hand to hand, one Marine actually held onto and immobilize two NVA by hugging both close to their body as the second Marine shot them off by pushing the rifle barrel between the holding Marine (wearing flak jacket) and one NVA, angle the barrel toward the NVA and firing. Figure the NVA are similar to petite athletic American females in strength and statue. In the end, size and strength did matter.
I'm starting to think....give ‘em a dose of reality and equality at the same time...Come back in 3 yrs and tell me how it worked for ya....
Who cares? This isn’t America we all grew up in!
They have been BEGGING for equality for years. Let them prove themselves. It won’t last for very long.
Women in combat is a done deal. It is going to happen regardless of commonsense or experience, and like much of the bad policy we see forming in this country, it won’t stop until it ends in a train wreck.
This is a copy of a post of mine on FR from a few months back, so I hope you don’t mind my re-posting it.
I do need to clarify my views on this, because there are people who will disregard my objections as simple chauvinism.
I have worked for and with smart, talented, hardworking and dedicated women. Women who could think on their feet, make decisions and would inspire me to work my tail off for them.
But this has nothing at all to do with that. There are people, male and female, who insist that 18 year old men and women can work together as if there is no such thing as sexual interaction, that sex can be regulated away.
Secondly, men and women simply are not the same physically. They aren’t. Women, on average, cannot achieve the same level of physical output for the same duration that men can.
There is a reason that there is a separate category in marathons for men and women. Women cannot compete at the same level as men. In the Boston Marathon, the first woman finished nearly twenty minutes after the first man, and would have come in 28th place overall.
I find it interesting that they do not list the results for men and women together at the official site, and as far as I can tell, there is no option to do so, but I could simply be missing it. But year after year, you hear female athletes analyzing the results and saying that “...with more women running marathons, eventually women will compete at the same level as men...”
Really? They are living in a fantasy world, and they put things like this in newspapers. A lot of people fall for it hook, line and sinker. I am no marathoner, but I will say that when seconds, or fractions of seconds separate first and second place, twenty minutes is insurmountable, no matter how many women run in marathons or how the numbers increase each year. If they take steroids, they might close it up a bit.
And marathons are simply one example. In the military, look at the SEALS, Delta, and the Rangers. It is no coincidence there are no women, or at least women who could get there on the same path the men do. Those units are the top of a pyramid, and in the former selection process, only the top physical and mental performers could clear the bar. If true that the Rangers have begun accepting female candidates, they are finished as an elite unit in the niche they currently occupy. They may be better than a standard infantry unit, but they won’t be the same as the Rangers we have seen, and they certainly won’t have the same mission capability.
They will likely all get to wear nice Ranger berets, though, and wear the snappy Ranger tabs and badges that will label them as elite troops.
Lastly, logistical issues ranging from pregnancy to habitation may not seem like much to some people, but that is only going to be true if they DO treat men and women exactly the same in the field with respect to equipment and habitation. Apart from if that is a good idea or not, does anyone think that is going to happen?
Raise your hands if you think it will.
It WON’T happen, that is guaranteed. But you know what? Nobody will notice. In 5 years after women join the Rangers/SEALS/Delta, you will hear talking heads in and out of the military who will say things like:
NEWS ANCHOR/POLITICIAN/MILITARY COMMANDER: “When we integrated women and homosexuals into these units, people were saying it was going to be a disaster, that it would hurt mission capability, morale and such. We are more capable now than we have ever been, and have the moral buttress of diversity and equality. Remember how they said the same thing about the military when blacks were going to be integrated back in 1946? Same result here...the world didn’t end, and it won’t. It was the right thing to do, and we can all be proud of the diversity we now see.”
And you know what? There will be no dissenting opinion.
The next time this comes up is when we go head to head with an opponent who is going to make our elite units use every single ounce of capability to complete a mission, and it isn’t going to happen. We may find ourselves in a situation where we don’t control the air or the sea. Our avenues of supply have been cut off, and our units have to do with their brains and brawn and endurance to win. And we are going to lose, and lose badly.
We will lose badly, because our opponents won’t be stupid enough to do what we have done to our military.
For an analogy, think of what might have happened on Edson’s Ridge on Guadalcanal in 1942 if we had women integrated into those Marine units fighting the Japanese. That is your answer.
But hey. Nobody is going to read this thread or do anything about it. I am a dinosaur and don’t know any better, can’t change with the times...it is embarrassing for some to even read a post like this one. And if anyone even gave a rat’s patootie anymore, they might get angry and attack me personally.
But they won’t. This fight is over.
If women want to be in wars then they better not expect my sympathy when they’re captured and made into sex toys.
Have a scientific test. Create an Amazon Brigade - women only.
Monitor their success for a few battles, then re-evaluate this idea of Women In Combat.
While you’re at it, let’s extend the test to homosexuals in combat. Put them ALL in one brigade, the whole alphabet soup of them (LGBQRXYZ-whatever).
Who gives a sh*t. As another poster said, it ain't my country any longer.
Any workplace I have been, it ends up that the guys do the heavy lifting.
You are so clueless when it comes to this issue.
But things look a bit different and more personal at 30 feet than they do at 30,000 feet.
An 80 year old grandmother can put on a uniform and carry a gun, she can even pull the trigger, what is your point?
Not in combat at 30,000 feet going one on one with a target. As I said, you get hit you’re just as dead as if you were at 30 feet.
Well *sigh* I guess you’re right.
Integrating women and homosexuality into the military is an inside act of national sabotage. Intentional? Not sure ... we know what kinds of intentions the road to hell is paved with, in any case.
The decision to put women in combat aircraft was not a necessary one: It was an arbitrary, political decision.
Women were not forced to beat out men: They were affirmative-actioned in.
That is fact. And you know it.
It was not necessary, and — I submit — it did not make the US a more formidable fighting force. (Quite the contrary: It put a more gentle, feminine face on our military. Very dumb.)
I did not say women cannot fly. I am saying there is no need to put them in combat aircraft to fulfill a leftist agenda.
So lets see, my second combat tour we lost 21 KIA for the BN and my PLATOON alone lost 26 out of 45 WIA in ONE DAY in room to room, house to house combat.
My third time out we lost 12 KIA for the BN and I think the BN had another 30 or so WIA.
My fourth time out when things were winding down....another 2 KIA.
Tell yourself whatever you want to feel like Xena warrior princess, but what it isn't the same reality as ground combat.
Sorry, but DRAFT FEMINISTS.
They’re as good as or better than men-—they tell us that all the time.
DRAFT their asses. Put up or shut up.
Well said, it also explains why I have never seen a woman take over in a biker bar, although that is where you find tough women.
Outlaw bikers don't pretend that women are an equal threat. Actually, no place where there isn't government oversight, (law and job repercussions) does.
I think the battlefield is one of those places also.
And your pretty lady pilots parachute down into jihadland, talibanland, al quedalandyou're completely fine with that too?
Basically what I see is the trashing of women serving their country. Thanks guys. BTW, 125 women serving in Vietnam were killed. It doesn’t matter if you’re up front or behind the lines.
We should not only begrudge, but we should discriminate there is no place for women in the military let alone combat.
The number that are as capable as their male counterparts is very very few. And just because they are well aware of the risks, doesn't mean that I, as a fighting man, accept the risks associated with her.
There already are too many distractions on the battlefield and too many units left short handed because some chick got knocked up down range or just prior to the unit deploying. Yup, got it; it's the guy's fault too, but that doesn't change the fact.
The military does not exist as a social experiment. It does not exist to make people feel good, to build nations, to make equal opportunities for all.
It is to seek out, close with, and destroy the enemy. It is to outsmart and out pace so that he can kill the enemy in the most effective manner possible. It is to demoralize and destroy. It is not a job for women.
When it comes time to look at a group of muslim terrorist POS and dump a few 6-8 round burst on a rocking and rolling M240G or M240B and remove them from the the rest of humanity, that is the time of a fighting man.
Jessica Lynch supposedly knew the risks involved. And when the SHTF she was "huddled in a protective ball in her humvee." Now, I may have only done four back to back combat deployments, but I have never been taught this fearsome fighting position......most would say it is cowering in fear. And what happened? Another soldier died trying to protect a woman.
A woman that never learned how to properly clear a jammed weapon. Why? Because there was always a man around to do it for her. And when it mattered most she couldn't perform and another soldier lost his life. But don't worry, she was put in for the Bronze Star for that other soldier's bravery. And then we know the rest of the story about how she was captured.
But don't worry, it was denied she was raped and sodomized in order to prevent the rest of U.S. forces taking out vengeance on the enemy.
There has already been enough wussification of the U.S. military. We used to teach how to kill. In the Marines we were taught Line Training. No BS hand to hand tactics on how to take another human being's life. Now "MCMAP" aka the quickest way to get your ass kicked is all about restraint. It is the Napoleon Dynamite style of fighting.....'grab my arm, no my other arm, no with your other arm.' "Never given always earned" or whatever the faggoty BS everyone gets a trophy slogan is. For you Army types out there, don't laugh your "combatives" are just as much horsesh#t too.
We spend countless upon countless hours being taught how we're all equal and women just the same as men. Well, why don't they have the same PFT, CFT, and MCIRS standards? Why are women able to do less to get better scores to promote faster? Because they are not equal in military ability and they never will be.
We can't sing cadence about killing any specific group or type of people - even those we are at war with. Can't sing about sex, murder, burning villages, or even cuss because some faggoty-ass sissy, or chick might get offended. You can go to an early grave son, but don't you dare sing about dropping napalm on a village.
It's jacked up some chick with half the time in, had a lower standard to meet and out ranks you and is now in a "leadership position" when she hasn't had the time or experience necessary to be there........it's for the greater good of equality.
I don't say any of this out of opinion or conjecture or what I've been taught....I say that as having spent 14 years of my life doing this and damn near a decade either on, or training for the two way shooting range.
I have been in some of the largest and most intense battles the U.S. has ever fought in urban warfare straight - up killing people. More than 30 young men I've served with in 3 different infantry battalions haven't made it home, and countless more wounded; myself included - in ONE DAY of fighting more than half my platoon was wounded in combat.
I thank the Good Lord above we didn't have women in our platoon. And if they were there.....I'd find every way possible to leave them back. You can charge me burn me, take my chevrons, GFY.
I don't care if you are a woman in the military; were in the military; your neighbor, sister's neighbor's cousins, niece is in the military and so you feel a need to somehow justify it....but flat out THERE IS NO PLACE FOR WOMEN IN COMBAT.
And to add in another previous post that the we're all equal crowd should read....here's a sample of ground combat, I PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED:
Fallujah, Iraq, pinned down, cutoff, and surrounded 360 degrees while taking heavy enemy fire, while the LT calls in 155 all around your pos with arty shrap blowing in through the windows.....and all because you're down to -100 rnds per 240G (both guns; having started with 1K each), no belted SAW ammo, no hand grenades, no 203 40mm grenades, no SMAW rockets, no AT4s, and trading out magazines because your buddy went "winchester" and there's still a whole f###ton of muj out there. /post
Oh yeah and you're covered in your blood, and a few of your buddies too. And this is with 120lbs on your back.
125 out of 50,000,000? Wow, those are quite the odds and there were no reason for them. BTW, how many exponentially more men died trying to save those 125?. Check my post 26.
I'm sorry your feelings are hurt, but your feelings aren't worth the LIVES of my Marines.
What I see is the underlying current of “Go to the kitchen and make me a sammich” Those women you so gallantly tossed off some of whom were medical specialists, doctors, nurses trying to save people like you. Some were shot down in medevac’s coming to the aid of guys who may not make it if they didn’t show up - my feelings aren’t hurt. So don’t concern yourself. Just sit back, have your beer or whatever and tell your mates how you really smacked down a stupid ....
I agree with that. Draft all the members of NOW and Sandra Fluke immediately.
Oh no, I’ve seen a lot of recent movies and tv, and it clearly shows that many women are much stronger than men. I’ve seen 120 lb women on the screen easily beat up men weighing twice and much. Huge, muscular men are easily punched out and thrown around by these seemingly very small women. I’m sure that reflects real life. (snicker)
Next, please tell us how horrible it is that the sexist patriarchy that runs the NFL won’t let women play pro football.
Call the WAAAAAHbulance! Life is So unfair to SkyDancer!
Indeed. A five-foot-two anoxeric stick model can easily wipe out a room full of 100 men. It must be true because Hollywood says so/sarc.
One of the primary reasons we have 20 million illegals in this country is because the border agencies have been so thoroughly feminized. Perhaps the worst thing that ever happened to the Border Patrol was allowing women to join.
Usually happens when people like you run out of ideas and have to resort to kindergarten type talk ...
If the military goes the way of the Border Patrol our enemies will make short work of us.
Really she didn't fire a single shot and was captured, raped and tortured.
You mean the Israel that turned over half of their country to terrorists sworn to exterminate them all?
So, it’s “kindergarten talk” to wonder why there are ZERO women in the NFL, but there should be women in infantry combat, where the risk is not a rough tackle, but getting killed (dead, not just injured) in physical hand-to-hand combat?
Grow up, girl. Reality is reality, even if you want to stamp your feet and pretend that fantasy is reality.
I have a news flash for you: real war is not a rerun of Star Trek. They don’t just shake the camera and blow in some smoke, then declare the Klingon ship to be destroyed.
You’re missing his point and, by over-dramatizing with the bs kitchen comment, proving a part of his point.
And women didnt ride or fly dust off, or medevac, in Vietnam. Though you are right, some hospitals were over-run and several brave non-combat nurses were raped and killed.
Women in "combat" are more likely to be impregnated than they are shot and killed by the enemy.
I wonder if Miss Lynch ever later commented on whether she ever regretted joining the military after her horrific experience?
Okay, so why does the aircraft in the bottom picture have a bulldozer as a “kill” marking?
While in Iraq, during the course of ONE deployment, 1BTB, 3d ID had IVO 28 pregnancies......that's ONE unit during ONE deployment that had nearly one quarter as many pregnancies as the total number of women KIW in 8 years of war. Where did I get the number 28? My ex-wife was in that unit during that deployment.
Just so no one accuses me of saying get me a sammich and talking out my ass.
She was Army Lt. Sharon Lane. I don't know how many female soldiers the public has seen die in Vietnam from shows like 'China Beach'.
""During the early hours of June 8, a Soviet-built, 122-mm rocket slammed into Ward 4 of the hospital. A piece of shrapnel ripped through Lane's aorta, killing her instantly. She died just one month short of her 26th birthday.
Lane is the only American servicewoman killed as a direct result of hostile fire during the Vietnam War.""
A rapid solution - start a random number draft of girls 18-30 for the front lines of combat to serve in Syria, Libya and whatever Muslim nation Obama chooses to invade. If half the ground forces are female, then it is fair, and we’re less likely to be seen as horrific invaders.
With 19 year old airheads and 29 year old feminist career gals drafted, you’ll see a lot more women saying, “No, leave it to the guys.”
I believe SkyDancer confused Vietnam with Iraq insofar as the number of women KIA. There were 124 women KIA in Iraq.....I provided the link in my last post.
It’s a fight for survival. And the Israelis had a great solution to the problem of Muslims attacking buses full of kids. They put women with guns on them.
And the U.S. would do more for its security to have armed mothers walking kids to school, riding every school bus and all the public transportation to take out potential terrorists and threats than TSA’s antics.