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Mexico: Rivera's plane hit with 'terrible' impact
AP via Yahoo! News ^ | Associated Press ľ 3 hrs ago | By MICHAEL WEISSENSTEIN and PORFIRIO IBARRA RAMIREZ

Posted on 12/11/2012 9:34:36 PM PST by F15Eagle

MEXICO CITY (AP) — The plane carrying Mexican-American music superstar Jenni Rivera plunged almost vertically from more than 28,000 feet and hit the ground in a nose-dive at a speed that may have exceeded 600 miles per hour, Mexico's top transportation official said Tuesday.

In the first detailed account of the moments leading up to the crash that killed Rivera and six other people, Secretary of Communications and Transportation Gerardo Ruiz Esparza told Radio Formula that the twin-engine turbojet hit the ground 1.2 miles from where it began falling.

"The plane practically nose-dived," he said. "The impact must have been terrible."

Ruiz did not offer any explanation of what may have caused the plane to plummet, saying only that "The plane fell from an altitude of 28,000 feet ... It may have hit a speed higher than 1,000 kph (621 mph)."

Ruiz said the pilot of the plane, Miguel Perez Soto, had a valid Mexican pilot's license that would have expired in January. Photos of a temporary pilot's certificate issued by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration and found amid the wreckage said that Perez was 78.

Ruiz said there is no age limit for flying a civil aviation aircraft, though for commercial flights it's 65. In the United States it's unusual for a pilot to be 78.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Mexico; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: jennirivera; mexico
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Were they in this LearJet with just one pilot in the cockpit?
1 posted on 12/11/2012 9:34:39 PM PST by F15Eagle
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To: All
A Learet 25


2 posted on 12/11/2012 9:37:03 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: F15Eagle

Has Bob Costas gone on a rant about airplanes yet?


3 posted on 12/11/2012 9:38:40 PM PST by Veggie Todd (Eat Mor Chikin)
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To: F15Eagle

The plane stops suddenly, and you are still going 600 miles per hour.


4 posted on 12/11/2012 9:39:39 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: F15Eagle

That’s tragic, I was thinking Jerry Rivers.


5 posted on 12/11/2012 9:40:25 PM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month)
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To: F15Eagle; a fool in paradise; Slings and Arrows

I thought it was Michael Rivera. Still, if it’s his cousin then we can suspect a conspiracy!


6 posted on 12/11/2012 9:41:18 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: going hot

Yes, that is one way to say it. Ouch.


7 posted on 12/11/2012 9:47:46 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: F15Eagle

I would not get in an aircraft if I knew the pilot was 78.. DEFINITELY not if there was only one pilot, aged 78. No way.


8 posted on 12/11/2012 9:50:38 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: going hot

Correction: Your momentum is 600 MPH. Upon impact you are no longer going 600 MPH. Just say’n


9 posted on 12/11/2012 9:51:12 PM PST by doc1019
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To: F15Eagle

I know she had a charity organization that funded treatments for children with cancer, and also helped women who wanted to get out of situations of domestic violence.

RIP


10 posted on 12/11/2012 9:51:21 PM PST by sockmonkey (Of Course I didn't read the article. After all, this is FreeRepublic..)
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To: Veggie Todd

Good one.


11 posted on 12/11/2012 9:53:19 PM PST by Fledermaus (The Republic is Dead: Collapse the system. Let the Dems destroy the economy!)
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To: sockmonkey

That’s a terrible loss for those children she was helping and her family.


12 posted on 12/11/2012 9:53:19 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

I agree with you. Flying with a single pilot aged 78 is risky business and I believe that it is entirely possible that this guy had a heart attack. We will probably never know for sure though.


13 posted on 12/11/2012 9:55:23 PM PST by davisfh
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

I agree. Too great a chance of a serious medical condition. If he was alone and that happened and the plane nosed over, they would likely not have been able to pull it out of a dive.

And from the initial description, I’d figure it was a lot more than 600 mph on the way down.


14 posted on 12/11/2012 9:55:48 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: doc1019
I was talking about the moment just after the plane hits the dirt, and prior to you hitting same.

Goes without saying that in a short amount of time (extremely short) your forward speed be zero.

Reminds me of the joke about what is the last thing that goes through a bug's mind when he hits you windshield.

15 posted on 12/11/2012 9:56:13 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: sockmonkey

She had more talent than Rihanna or Lady Gaga.


16 posted on 12/11/2012 9:59:34 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: F15Eagle

Yeah. All the 24-50 year old motorcycle riders smoking pot and nicking a flask from who cruising down our streets and highways at 90 miles an hour, are much safer.


17 posted on 12/11/2012 10:01:14 PM PST by righttackle44 (Take scalps. Leave the bodies as a warning.)
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To: going hot
Reminds me of the joke about what is the last thing that goes through a bug's mind when he hits your windshield.

Sorry, missed that one ... please share.

18 posted on 12/11/2012 10:01:26 PM PST by doc1019
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To: doc1019

A: It’s a$$.


19 posted on 12/11/2012 10:05:31 PM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult (Liberals make unrealistic demands on reality and reality doesn't oblige them.)
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To: righttackle44

24-50 don’t suffer from strokes and heart attacks like many 78-year-olds. Though they do have some.

I would hope the mandatory drug tests will stop most potheads from flying aircraft, at least jets.

But I’m sure a few have figured out how to game the system.

I was studying the AeroMexico crash a few months ago and one private pilot crossed the TCA without permission and drew all the attention of a controller. Another (private) pilot crossed the TCA and clipped the horizontal stabilizer off the AeroMexico plane and doomed the crew and passengers.

Now it that particular crash, I saw no mention of drugs or medical conditions.


20 posted on 12/11/2012 10:06:25 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: doc1019

F=ma.

RIP


21 posted on 12/11/2012 10:19:00 PM PST by onedoug
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To: righttackle44

depends on which gear.


22 posted on 12/11/2012 10:19:57 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: F15Eagle

This is a 2 pilot plane. My husband used to fly one. This was built in 1969 and apparently the owner, Starwood, had a problem a while back with a plane being seized over drug running - or something like that.

Not that I’m a pilot but seems to me that if the auto plot was on - that nose diving wouldn’t have been likely due to a medical condition. If you recall Payne Stewart’s plane flew quite a way with dead pilots and passengers. Sounds more like a mechanical issue.


23 posted on 12/11/2012 10:22:06 PM PST by Aria ( 2008 & 2012 weren't elections - both were a coup d'etat.)
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To: Aria

They were only 10 minutes out of the airport. Even though there are two seats, that doesn’t mean there were two pilots in the cockpit at the time of the event.

Though I’d say 28,000 feet 10 minutes out is a pretty impressive rate of climb.

I would have imagined they were going for a higher altitude but haven’t seen any info on whether the autopilot was engaged. We’ll have to see the CVR / controller transcripts to see what FL they were going for.


24 posted on 12/11/2012 10:26:43 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: F15Eagle
Damn things dont glide worth spit. I wonder if they jetted out of the hole in a steep climb, got to 28K, then jets quit, for whatever reason.

Was it a fall or a power on dive?

25 posted on 12/11/2012 10:30:20 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

There are a lot of very competent pilots flying that are in their 80s.

I’m 75 and don’t intend to quit.

A friend of mine was flying until he got cancer at 92 and quit.


26 posted on 12/11/2012 10:31:18 PM PST by dalereed
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To: F15Eagle

Well this is true...maybe he was flying solo...something my husband never would have even tried.

He said the Lear25 could be tricky to fly...skittish because of it’s configuration. He mostly flew bigger planes - Lear55, did some test piloting in a Lear35, Challenger, Falcon.

I’m guessing by your screen name you know way more about this than I do!


27 posted on 12/11/2012 10:34:04 PM PST by Aria ( 2008 & 2012 weren't elections - both were a coup d'etat.)
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To: going hot

Guess we’ll find out when they analyze the data - maybe the radar track will indicate the speed.

Yikes.


28 posted on 12/11/2012 10:34:32 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: Aria

Well, :). Not that much.

Sometimes private planes do use a single pilot to save on expenses.

I had heard long ago the private pilot that hit the AeroMexico back in 1988(?) had a heart attack but that may have only been speculation. Very tragic.


29 posted on 12/11/2012 10:37:17 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: going hot

The pilot has already arrived, but you’ll be there in a jiffy.


30 posted on 12/11/2012 10:43:18 PM PST by Erasmus (Zwischen des Teufels und des tiefen, blauen Meers)
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To: Erasmus

truly lol.


31 posted on 12/11/2012 10:44:46 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: Aria
A 43 year old plane is going to have a high total time, probably above 16,000 hours. If there was a rapid decompression at 35,000 feet the pilot and copilot would have little time to get oxygen on before losing consciousness. The other alternative would be to nose dive rapidly below 14,000 ft to avoid hypoxia.
32 posted on 12/11/2012 10:47:13 PM PST by pterional
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To: doc1019

Correction: Your momentum is 600 MPH. Upon impact you are no longer going 600 MPH. Just say’n

Correction to your correction.
Your VELOCITY is 600 mph.
Your momentum is 600 mph times your mass.


33 posted on 12/11/2012 11:04:48 PM PST by calljack (Sometimes your worst nightmare is just a start.)
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To: pterional

What mechanical problem would cause the plane to nosedive like this?


34 posted on 12/11/2012 11:25:09 PM PST by Aria ( 2008 & 2012 weren't elections - both were a coup d'etat.)
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To: Revolting cat!

Us old timers are laughing at your joke.


35 posted on 12/11/2012 11:30:00 PM PST by eddie willers
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To: pterional

A 43 year old plane is going to have a high total time, probably above 16,000 hours. If there was a rapid decompression at 35,000 feet the pilot and copilot would have little time to get oxygen on before losing consciousness.
........
Less than 30 seconds or so before unconsciousness.


36 posted on 12/11/2012 11:43:45 PM PST by aviator (Armored Pest Control)
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To: Aria
Anything is possible with a 43 year old aircraft with a prior crash history. A Lear 25 at high altitude can accidentally exceed mach limits and the pilot can lose control or the trim control on the elevator can run out in nose down position. Having an in flight emergency at 3:30 am with a tired crew decreases your chance of survival.
37 posted on 12/12/2012 12:03:54 AM PST by pterional
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To: pterional

So much to go wrong on this flight.

Old plane, maybe a solo pilot who was old, late night. My husband has never flown a jet without a co-pilot - I know there are single pilot Citations but not Lears.

I took a class and we were told that “get home itis” causes more accidents than anything.


38 posted on 12/12/2012 12:17:51 AM PST by Aria ( 2008 & 2012 weren't elections - both were a coup d'etat.)
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To: F15Eagle

Ok I saw the Mexican news and they said there was the older pilot but there was a copilot and he was 20 years of age. They feel it may be due to the age of the pilot and you got a 20 year copilot who is just barely flying with not enough hours. What I don’t like about the Mexican news is that they are graphic. They showed the wreckage but they also showed limbs. I’m thinking why show that. It is the opposite here where the new media cover any picture that is graphic like in 911 or a murder but in Mexico o well lets show it.

I feel bad for the family of Jenni I hope they didn’t get to see that segment. Then of course you have the Gordo Y La Flaca (The Fat & The Thin - not a show on ODumbo & Krispy Kreme =) which is a celebrity news show. OMG they interview the mother and the rest of the family. The one most stupid question the fat dude asked “Who is handling all the paperwork of Jenni’s?”. I’m like “dude this woman lost her daughter and you got the nerve to ask that” Then they recorded Jenni’s son who looks about 11 and I can see he was not fond of them taking picture. There is no respect for the grieving family.


39 posted on 12/12/2012 12:29:51 AM PST by Patriot Babe
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To: Patriot Babe

I’ve very surprised anything was left at the wreckage site, if it nosedived from 28,000 ft. Generally everything would have vaporized, with nothing including engines left to inspect.


40 posted on 12/12/2012 12:40:36 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Patriot Babe

Thanks for the update - yeah terrible about that stuff


41 posted on 12/12/2012 12:41:24 AM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: F15Eagle

I never really thought about that option. I’ve been a Lear passenger about 40-50 times in my lifetime and have always had two pilots. Can’t imagine going with only one. I always enjoyed sitting just outside the cockpit to see what I could learn.


42 posted on 12/12/2012 12:54:53 AM PST by cdga5for4
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To: F15Eagle
Though I’d say 28,000 feet 10 minutes out is a pretty impressive rate of climb.

So do you think he might have stalled?

-PJ

43 posted on 12/12/2012 1:09:53 AM PST by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: F15Eagle
And from the initial description, I’d figure it was a lot more than 600 mph on the way down.
Even at 600 mph, you’re only going about 5 miles, so the duration would be 5/600 hours, times 3600 seconds per hour = 30 seconds.
If the power was high as you suggest, any plane would be shedding parts before it hit the ground.

44 posted on 12/12/2012 1:13:16 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which “liberalism" coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion

At what speed do parts start coming off the Lear 25?


45 posted on 12/12/2012 1:23:32 AM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: Political Junkie Too

Dunno. I’m not surprised it could climb that fast but they’re saying it was missing about 10 minutes out.

Don’t know how many details they’ll be able to recover here, anyways.


46 posted on 12/12/2012 1:34:37 AM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: Cvengr
I’ve very surprised anything was left at the wreckage site, if it nosedived from 28,000 ft. Generally everything would have vaporized, with nothing including engines left to inspect.

That's what happened with a DC-9 in SE Florida. (Broward or Palm Beach County). Leaking Oxygen canisters were blamed in the 90's direct, uncontrolled, headlong descent into Everglades-like terrain. With nothing remaining, a concrete memorial was installed at the crash-site.

47 posted on 12/12/2012 2:15:25 AM PST by Does so (Dims don't think ... they PLOT!)
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To: Aria
What mechanical problem would cause the plane to nosedive like this?

Several reasons. From a Mach tuck gone bad to a broken elevator control system.

The investigation is going to be very difficult given the impact velocity and geometry. Not much survives an impact at that velocity that's bigger than a flake of aluminum.

Maybe part of the engine core and some cable but that will be about it.

48 posted on 12/12/2012 4:33:54 AM PST by Freeport (The proper application of high explosives will remove all obstacles.)
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To: calljack

One more correction. Velocity is a vector, so it’s 600 mph in the downward direction. Speed was 600 mph.


49 posted on 12/12/2012 4:38:06 AM PST by laker_dad
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To: dfwgator

I have more talent than Lady gaga and I can’t carry a tune in a bucket.


50 posted on 12/12/2012 4:43:46 AM PST by Venturer
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