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Sen. Rand Paul: Let Dems raise taxes and own the result (Republicans should just vote "Present")
Hotair ^ | 12/12/2012 | Ed Morrissey

Posted on 12/12/2012 10:16:39 AM PST by SeekAndFind

Are higher taxes inevitable? If they are, Senator Rand Paul wants no Republican fingerprints on them. Last night, he told Greta van Susteren on Fox News that House Republicans should pass a bill with their specific plan to cut spending and fix the tax code to address the fiscal-cliff issues, and dare the Senate to take it up. If Democrats refuse, then Paul wants the House to hold a vote on the Democratic plan, with Republicans voting "present" to allow Democrats to pass the bill. That way, the economic damage from tax hikes will be totally owned by Democrats, and Republicans will have kept their hands clean:

CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE VIDEO

This reminds me of a scene from the otherwise entirely-forgettable film Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins. Wilford Brimley goes over the doomsday scenario of exposure with Fred Ward, which is the suicides of all involved, but then says, “We’re not there yet, boys.” I’m of the same mind; we can see the edge of the cliff from here, but no one’s going to get serious until Friday at the earliest. The legislative language for any deal will need to get written before the House and Senate can take a vote, which means that we’ll have to have a deal in writing by Monday or Tuesday to get the vote in before Christmas, or by Christmas to get it in before New Years Day if Congress stays in session.

If Obama insists on 4:1 tax hikes to cuts and won’t budge, though, this is probably not a bad scenario to follow. I’d amend it to make clear that the debt ceiling isn’t part of the bill, and I would also pass the AMT fix separately in the House with Republican votes. No sense in refusing credit for solving that of the fiscal cliff.



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: democrats; randpaul; tax; taxes

1 posted on 12/12/2012 10:16:48 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
If Democrats refuse, then Paul wants the House to hold a vote on the Democratic plan, with Republicans voting "present" to allow Democrats to pass the bill. That way, the economic damage from tax hikes will be totally owned by Democrats, and Republicans will have kept their hands clean:

How long has Rand Paul been in the Senate? If this passes the House, the media will pin any blame on the GOP and damn the vote.

The Tea Party put the GOP back in charge in the House to stop this nonsense, not play games with it.

2 posted on 12/12/2012 10:19:51 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
GOP Tea Party
3 posted on 12/12/2012 10:28:47 AM PST by FrankR (They will become our ultimate masters the day we surrender the 2nd Amendment.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I actually agree.

No way make it Boner bi-partisan.

Let them take the hits all by themselves. If it is inevitable, do not contribute a single vote.

bobo


4 posted on 12/12/2012 10:39:49 AM PST by bobo1
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To: SeekAndFind

They should, but Bonehead wont allow it.
Bonehead loves Grand Bargains, no matter how bad.


5 posted on 12/12/2012 10:44:42 AM PST by tennmountainman
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To: SeekAndFind

Rand Paul is a traitor. Rolling over is NOT leadership. If other Americans had been Paulie Pussies:

“Don’t retreat until you see the whites of their eyes” - General William Prescott, at the Battle of Bunker Hill in 1775.

“I only regret that I have but one life, so please don’t hang me. I like the British” - Nathan Hale

“Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by harshly worded condemnations.” - Gen. George S. Patton


6 posted on 12/12/2012 10:46:34 AM PST by kidd
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To: SeekAndFind

Rand is Right !


7 posted on 12/12/2012 10:54:49 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: FrankR

There are lots of different idea’s about what republicans should do, lots of idea’s from those in congress, pundits, and average American’s.

The truth is nobody knows the right thing to do, why?

Because there is no leadership, a leader would have; by this time, already know what to do, and would already have been broadcasting to everyone in every available venue, what will be done.

Obama is no leader, but he is dictating, what a dictator, would do...he says this is what I want, and this is what I will do, whether anyone likes it or not, and the opposition sits and twiddles and talks, talks, talks.


8 posted on 12/12/2012 10:54:54 AM PST by PoloSec ( Believe the Gospel: how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again)
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To: SeekAndFind

Only problem with the plan is that democrats know that the liberal media will never place the blame on them for anything and if the most recent election has taught us anything it’s that a majority of voters have lost any concept of critical thinking and will swallow what the media spoon feeds them without question.


9 posted on 12/12/2012 10:55:34 AM PST by apillar
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To: SeekAndFind

Wrong answer Rand. Don’t try to get cute. Just vote “No” when the question is raising taxes.


10 posted on 12/12/2012 10:56:08 AM PST by Behind the Blue Wall
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To: SeekAndFind

I’m not sure Rand Paul is entirely serious about this, but it does suggest a strategy that should be front and center for the GOP. Make Obama own it. With the media as a part of his administration, it will take effort and consistent messaging to do it. Make him own it. Giving him his way and voting present is over the top, but the idea of consistently pinning it on him is vital. I’m not expecting that kind of high level strategy from the leadership of The Stupid Party, but I can dream.


11 posted on 12/12/2012 11:05:53 AM PST by cdcdawg
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To: SeekAndFind; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; ...
RE :”Are higher taxes inevitable? If they are, Senator Rand Paul wants no Republican fingerprints on them. Last night, he told Greta van Susteren on Fox News that House Republicans should pass a bill with their specific plan to cut spending and fix the tax code to address the fiscal-cliff issues, and dare the Senate to take it up. If Democrats refuse, then Paul wants the House to hold a vote on the Democratic plan, with Republicans voting “present” to allow Democrats to pass the bill. That way, the economic damage from tax hikes will be totally owned by Democrats, and Republicans will have kept their hands clean:”

The Senate already passed a bill extending part of the tax cuts (rates), even though technically the constitution requires all tax bills to originate in the House.

Why should House Republicans put up a bill they are clearly against and then vote present?

I still think the cleanest idea is to pass two bills, one below $250K and one above $250K, the Senate will drop the second one and then Republicans blame the Dems for raising those taxes.

Say Dems respond with “ We didnt raise the taxes on the rich, those were automatic (to go up.)"
Who would accept this? Dems ran front and square on raising those taxes in fact O is back campaigning on it again after winning re-election on it.

Why would that one trick work better with House Republicans own party base than my idea?

12 posted on 12/12/2012 11:09:27 AM PST by sickoflibs (Dems know how to win. Rs know how to whine.)
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To: dirtboy

The media will blaim the GOP if a pin drops in a room a thousand miles away from the nearest republican. That is what the modern news media is a GOP blame machine.

The state of the world much less the true of the situation is about as far from their broadcasts as the Sun is from pluto. The point is we cant not avoid the lies of the compulsive Obama campaign liers. Choosing not to act will no more make them tell the truth than choosing to act in anyway.

We do nothing they will blame us for Obama’s economic calamity, we do something they call the economic calamity a result of our actions, even if it was their plan & choice of action. The point is there is nothing we can do or not do that will avoid their lying propaganda. So we might as well act according to our believes to protect yourself.

We are not apart of their “community” anymore, to them we are the hated outsider labeled as their devil where as Obama is their God.

I think senator Pauls plan is as good as any, it will only sway the minority not blinded by their hate, but at least it will help to make that minority suffer for their own actions. Once again our focus should be upon protecting Conservatives from their actions, not protecting leftist voters from leftist politicians.

We cannot protect them from themselves, and we would expend too much of our limited time & resources trying. Protect our own, and leave the fools to evil they choose.


13 posted on 12/12/2012 11:14:29 AM PST by Monorprise
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To: SeekAndFind
If Democrats refuse, then Paul wants the House to hold a vote on the Democratic plan, with Republicans voting "present" to allow Democrats to pass the bill.

What a perfectly Republican notion. Sell out your country by inaction.

14 posted on 12/12/2012 11:19:45 AM PST by EternalVigilance (Obamacare is the socialist cancer of the New Deal metastasized.)
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To: SeekAndFind

You cannot permit or let evil happen to bring about a greater good. That is God’s domain. We must fight against the lefts’ insistence on the breaking of the 7th and 10th commandments.


15 posted on 12/12/2012 11:34:09 AM PST by frogjerk (Obama Claus is coming to town!)
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To: SeekAndFind
I absolutely agree. In November, the electorate made a stupid and damaging choice. They chose socialism. I didn't choose it, you didn't choose it, but sadly a growing block of voters chose it and will continue to choose it so long as this slow collapse continues.

By obstructing, voting no, or even voting yes, we are providing an avenue for capitalism to be blamed when all comes crashing down. So long as capitalism can be blamed, socialism will continue its choke-hold.

I do not believe the power of good arguments or a sound philosophy is enough to convince people to choose the right path anymore. As long as we continue to receive checks, we will do what we are told and cast blame on capitalism for every consequence.

I believe it will take getting to a point where the checks are simply impossible to write before the American people fully realize what we have done. It will be even more painful for those of us who cherish our dwindling liberty and the fundamental principles on which our country was founded.

As we are picking up the pieces in the aftermath, we must let there be no doubt that socialism, liberalism, progressivism were the evil that caused the collapse.

Politicians should prepare their constituents. They should let them know that the only remaining way to expose Obama's philosophy for the failure it is, is to allow it to be viewed in its full "glory".

It will not be easy to promote this or follow through with this strategy. It will take true leadership to abstain.

This fight goes beyond which party is to blame, which party wins, or which party loses. It boils down the the base concept that capitalism and personal liberty are the only true path to prosperity. The inevitable abject failure of socialism is the only thing we have left to convince them of that.
16 posted on 12/12/2012 11:36:25 AM PST by mmichaels1970
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To: EternalVigilance

The Rs are darned if they do and darned if they don’t. zero wants to destroy the party - and pin this on them. If they go along with raising taxes then the Ds will say - see your policies caused this mess and the next R who runs for office won’t have the platform to promise to cut taxes. See, how devious this is? The Rs should either vote no or present is also a good solution.

Some open their mouths before they think things through on this forum. Use common sense.


17 posted on 12/12/2012 11:39:51 AM PST by Catsrus
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To: SeekAndFind
Maybe they should vote “obama” and turn it into a word meaning empty, vacuous, inconsequential as in “Just pick an obama chair anywhere.”
18 posted on 12/12/2012 11:53:16 AM PST by Aevery_Freeman (The trouble with the "masses" is that they never achieve the "m")
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To: SeekAndFind
"Present"?!?

"Present"?!?

Didn't we endless harangue the "O" for this spineless tactic? What, congressman, you haven't had the time to make up your mind one way or the other? "Gee, it's just so complicated..." If you oppose it, vote "NO" on the record.
19 posted on 12/12/2012 11:55:39 AM PST by Rebel_Ace (Tags?!? Tags?!? We don' neeeed no stinkin' Tags!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Rand Paul is done.

This is inexcusable in my mind. It’s one thing to give a lost cause but it’s another thing to make a stupid assumption like the GOP won’t get blamed anyway.

Sure let Obama have more money to buy more votes - that will work great Rand... you ding dong.

If this is the thinking up on the hill by conservatives we are done.


20 posted on 12/12/2012 12:05:50 PM PST by mike_9958
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To: bobo1
All it takes is one Pubbie vote for the Dems and the Drive by Media to call it bi-partisan.
21 posted on 12/12/2012 12:07:40 PM PST by gov_bean_ counter (Hope and Change has become Attack and Obfuscate.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I hate to be the one to break it to him, but Republicans have rolled over for the Democrats for four years now, and for their lack of resistance, the Democrats have just grown stronger, and the destruction they have wrought is far worse.

“Moral victory” just means you got your butt stomped. Nobody cares about or will remember those who quit instead of fight.


22 posted on 12/12/2012 12:31:49 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Pennies and Nickels will NO LONGER be Minted as of 1/1/13 - Tim Geithner, US Treasury Sect)
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To: dirtboy

Look everybody, another massive double-dipper recession is going to happen in the next four years. Obamacare mandates are a virtual guarantee of a hiring freeze for full-time work and large businesses, to say nothing of higher tax rates. A hiring freeze will paralyze the economy and the higher taxes and costs due to regulation will cause large layoffs all over the country. Meanwhile, millions of people will graduate from college each year with lots of debt and no real prospects, adding to the unemployed and underemployed.

A huge global recession with no cure in sight, apart from RADICAL welfare state reform and massive cuts in defense spending, and lowered regulations, is coming. It’s not “if,” it’s “when.”

And all the RINOS in Congress can do is buy us a little time. They have no power to do anything else. So let’s just let it happen soon and let the Dems own it.


23 posted on 12/12/2012 12:43:07 PM PST by LifeComesFirst (http://rw-rebirth.blogspot.com/)
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To: LifeComesFirst

I agree. I’m not even going to fasten my seat belt as required by law. Lets go over the cliff and get it done with.


24 posted on 12/12/2012 12:51:14 PM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: cableguymn

Sen. Paul’s advice is exactly the same thing I sent in a message to Speaker Boehner the other day. When we voted a majority of Republicans to the House in 2010 and 2012, we sent a message for them to do what we wanted done. Make no deals. Pass the law in the House the way we know is right. Send it to the Senate and let the Democrats do whatever they want and OWN it.


25 posted on 12/12/2012 1:05:23 PM PST by Jude in WV
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To: Catsrus
Use common sense.

Common sense would be to quit playing political games and simply vote NO on a bad bill. Not fold your hands and acquiesce.

26 posted on 12/12/2012 1:12:19 PM PST by EternalVigilance (Obamacare is the socialist cancer of the New Deal metastasized.)
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To: kidd
Rand Paul is a traitor. Rolling over is NOT leadership. If other Americans had been Paulie Pussipes:

Paul is right, and it's not rolling over. It's folding a losing hand. Here is what is going to happen: first, there will be no deal this year, because Obama wants the Bush tax cuts to expire. Then with the new Congress in session, the Dems will propose a bill that will renew them, plus the payroll tax reduction (2% on everyone with a paycheck), except for "the rich". Then the Pubs will have two choices, both losers. They can either vote for the Dem bill, or be held responsible by for 98% of taxpayers (including those who pay only payroll taxes) for getting a smaller check each week. In addition the Republican claim to be the party of lower taxes will be permanently changed to "the party of lower taxes for the rich only".

So what's your recommendation when that happens?

27 posted on 12/12/2012 1:28:01 PM PST by Hugin ("Most times a man'll tell you his bad intentions, if you listen and let yourself hear."---Open Range)
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To: Hugin

Good golly. The ability to control the budget is the GOP’s strongest power. It should not be surrendered lightly, or for the sake of political theater.

1. Approve only temporary measures. Anything to move the “fical cliff” to March.

2. This will force Obama to submit a budget BEFORE any subsequent “fiscal cliff” negotiations take place.

3. Get every republican in front of every camera that they can, to emphasize the reckless spending in Obama’s plan.

4. Emphasize that there will be NO tax increases WITHOUT earnest spending cuts.


28 posted on 12/12/2012 1:43:55 PM PST by kidd
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To: kidd

“4. Emphasize that there will be NO tax increases WITHOUT earnest spending cuts.”

That’s unfortunately just not true, which is the problem. There WILL be tax increases, both in rates and a 2% increase in Social Security withholding as of 1/1/2013 if nothing is done, along with massive cuts in the military, but no cuts to entitlements. Which is why Obama is perfectly willing to let it happen and keep in campaign mode.


29 posted on 12/12/2012 1:50:59 PM PST by Hugin ("Most times a man'll tell you his bad intentions, if you listen and let yourself hear."---Open Range)
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To: dirtboy

I agree - Rand Paul is starting to go looney on us by suggesting this.


30 posted on 12/12/2012 2:28:24 PM PST by Sioux-san
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To: SeekAndFind

Not a bad idea.


31 posted on 12/12/2012 5:16:20 PM PST by SoFloFreeper
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