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Hero Marine who saved comrades by falling on grenade will NOT get post- humous Medal of Honor -
Daily Mail ^ | 12/12/12 | Beth Stebner

Posted on 12/12/2012 5:59:51 PM PST by Nachum

A Marine who was killed after his unconscious body fell on a live grenade during the Iraq War will not receive a posthumous Medal of Honor, it was revealed today. Sgt Rafael Peralta was 25 years old when he fell on the grenade in Fallouja, Iraq in 2004. Though he perished, his body shielded other American soldiers and saved the lives of other Marines. The Pentagon told Rep. Duncan Hunter it supports the decision of former Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who honored Sgt. Rafael Peralta with the Navy Cross instead of the military´s highest honor.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: marine; medal; peralta
Full title: Hero Marine who saved comrades by falling on grenade will NOT get post- humous Medal of Honor - because he was ´unconscious when it exploded´

-Some lines, should not be crossed

1 posted on 12/12/2012 5:59:58 PM PST by Nachum
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To: Nachum

This is the kind of thing that happens when you have a corrupt, thuggish, clintonoid Communist as Defence Secretary.


2 posted on 12/12/2012 6:18:58 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Nachum
Never having gotten many ribbons in my not-so-stellar Army career I could be wrong but isn't the Navy Cross the second highest ribbon a Marine (and a sailor) can be awarded? And how do they know that he was unconscious when it exploded and,if he was,was he unconscious when he *fell* the grenade?
3 posted on 12/12/2012 6:19:57 PM PST by Gay State Conservative (Benghazi: What Did Baraq Know And When Did He Know It?)
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To: Cicero
This is the kind of thing that happens when you have a corrupt, thuggish, clintonoid Communist as Defense Secretary.

Given that it's the *Congressional* Medal of Honor is the Secretary of Defense at all involved in its awarding? Maybe he must rule on the "merits" and forward the case to Congress? I suppose I could look it up.

4 posted on 12/12/2012 6:24:11 PM PST by Gay State Conservative (Benghazi: What Did Baraq Know And When Did He Know It?)
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To: Nachum

Goddammit, Peralta should get it. Enough of this crap.


5 posted on 12/12/2012 6:29:08 PM PST by real saxophonist (Looking for the joke with a microscope)
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To: Nachum

So the autopsy “said” he was unconscious when he fell on the grenade, but eyewitnesses said he pulled the grenade into his body before he fell. So who do you believe? I would go with the Marines who were there and not some pathologist who was not. Pathology is not an exact science and cannot say within seconds when the brain stopped functioning.


6 posted on 12/12/2012 6:30:43 PM PST by mc5cents
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To: Nachum; xzins

It takes at least 5 minutes of being oxygen deprived before you can get to a “brain dead” state. I don’t recall seeing any grenades with fuses longer than 5 minutes, nor have I ever heard of a brain dead person “falling”.

The grenade managed to work it’s way under his body before it exploded.

Brain dead people don’t usually pull grenades under their body. They do, however, tend to vote for democrats.


7 posted on 12/12/2012 6:34:17 PM PST by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds.)
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To: Nachum

This Marine did not die for the Secretary of Defense or the President, he died for our country, its people, and its freedom. This Marine currently does not give a rat’s as* about receiving the Medal of Honor. Mortal man cannot reward such sacrifice anyway.

God Bless this Marine and his family.

Semper Fidelis.


8 posted on 12/12/2012 6:36:24 PM PST by Patriot95
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To: Gay State Conservative

I don’t know for certain, but I should think that any medal works its way up the chain of command. Probably a CMH needs to work its way all the way to the top. So it wouldn’t reach congress until the evidence was taken and considered and passed on up with the recommendations.


9 posted on 12/12/2012 6:37:37 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: mc5cents

I agree with you.

“No man has greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.”


10 posted on 12/12/2012 6:38:05 PM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
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To: Nachum

Just remember, Private Jessica Lynch was called an “American Hero” and Major Julie Metzger (now back on active duty as A Lt Col) was never prosecuted for lying and desertion. Leadership was something this nation last saw in World War 2. It is rare today.


11 posted on 12/12/2012 6:40:29 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: Nachum

Was there not a time when the MOH was given to those who killed or captured mass quanities of the enemy and probably died as a result. So why now must it be given to those who simply commit suicide although for a good cause? Search the Medal of Honor online and read it’s history up to the present and at a recent point in history you may see where is has been cheapened in the name of fell good politics.


12 posted on 12/12/2012 6:44:57 PM PST by Patriot365
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To: Nachum

MILTON L. OLIVE III

Pfc. Olive saw the grenade, and then saved the lives of his fellow soldiers at the sacrifice of his by grabbing the grenade in his hand and falling on it to absorb the blast with his body.

http://corregidor.org/heritage_battalion/moh/olive.html

THE MEN OF OLIVE COMPANY; FOUR SOLDIERS SURVIVED VIETNAM BECAUSE MILTON OLIVE DIDN’T

Chicago Tribune, 12 May 2002
By Don Terry

We are blessed to have such men.


13 posted on 12/12/2012 6:47:23 PM PST by DUMBGRUNT (The best is the enemy of the good!)
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To: Nachum

Speaking as a former Vietnam era Marine I concur ... given the circumstances this is not worthy of the MOH. The Navy Cross is the next highest award and certainly appropriate. In the British military the Victoria Cross is the equivalent of the MOH ... rarely is it awarded for a soldier sacrificing his life by throwing his body on a grenade.


14 posted on 12/12/2012 6:50:17 PM PST by BluH2o
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To: Nachum
I suspect that they got the facts right on this one, but it has set the bar intolerably high and demands a degree of fact gathering that is just impossible in these kinds of combat situations. He certainly did more than many other recepients, and there is no way to say without possibility of error. Consider this citation from WWII:

The President of the United States of America, in the name of Congress, takes pride in presenting the Medal of Honor (Posthumously) to Rear Admiral Daniel Judson Callaghan (NSN: 0-7635), United States Navy, for extraordinary heroism and conspicuous intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty on board the U.S.S. San Francisco, during action against enemy Japanese forces off Savo Island on the night of 12 - 13 November 1942. Although out-balanced in strength and numbers by a desperate and determined enemy, Rear Admiral Callaghan, with ingenious tactical skill and superb coordination of the units under his command, led his forces into battle against tremendous odds, thereby contributing decisively to the rout of a powerful invasion fleet, and to the consequent frustration of a formidable Japanese offensive. While faithfully directing close-range operations in the face of furious bombardment by superior enemy fire power, he was killed on the bridge of his flagship. His courageous initiative, inspiring leadership, and judicious foresight in a crisis of grave responsibility were in keeping with the finest traditions of the U.S. Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life in the defense of his country.

Also awarded the Medal of Honor during this engagement were two others on the bridge. Captain Cassin Young, Captain of the San Francisco and LCDR Bruce McCandless on duty on the bridge. Callaghan and Young were killed as the same instant the fight began, neither was quite certain of the Japanese positions and intent. They were blown to pieces and never knew that the engagement had begun. McCandless was wounded and took command of the ship. The U.S. needed heroes and the Navy wanted to provide them. The Army did the same thing with Colin Kelly.

At least it wasn't Vera Cruz in 1914

15 posted on 12/12/2012 6:52:09 PM PST by centurion316
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To: Nachum
As if the Navy Cross is an insult?

I'm all for acknowledging heroic acts... but his lights were out, and his body fell in a highly fortuitous way. The Navy Cross for his family and posterity is more than enough of a recognition.

Or do we have out MOH's like candy to anyone who dies nowadays?

16 posted on 12/12/2012 6:55:08 PM PST by Teacher317 ('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)
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To: Teacher317

For what it’s worth:

A Doctor once told me of a head-shot victim he helped treat during his residency. He said the victim walked into the ER.

He was dead by morning, but fully conscience when he checked himself in. It was later that the swelling did him in.

I don’t know what caliber the slug was in either case, but it’s not unheard of.


17 posted on 12/12/2012 7:04:02 PM PST by tsomer
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To: Patriot365
Actually the Medal, as it is known to most soldiers and Marines, is given for all sorts of acts. Many living men received the Medal as well as men who died doing their brave deeds. For your edification, most Medal winners got it for falling on grenades and saving the lives of their comrades. It has always been a given that if a combatant fell on a live grenade to save others lives, he got the Medal.

This just sucks.

One of the men to receive the Medal while still living Was Audy Murphy. Most of them are awarded Posthumously.

If you doubt me on the fact that most Medal winners got it for falling on Grenades, read all the citations and see exactly what each one was awarded for.

18 posted on 12/12/2012 7:24:06 PM PST by calex59
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To: BluH2o

Have you heard about SEAL Mike Monsoor ?

Here ya go :

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2008/04/us-navy-seal-mi.html


19 posted on 12/12/2012 7:38:25 PM PST by simplesimon (NEVER forget Benghazi ~!)
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To: Teacher317

No, we don’t hand them out like candy. But we have turned them into a cult like award, with ridiculous standards. They are also more political than ever, and are only awarded to people who also pass a public relations vetting process.
It’s a disgrace that they do not award them as they should in the modern era. Half the MOH in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam would not have been awarded under today’s standards. THAT cheapens, not enhances, the award. Douglas Macarthur got one for heavens sake, for little more than sitting in Corregidor. He was a 1941 Petraeus, thats it.

And if you think all he did was fall in a lucky manner, and that his dead body had no intent whatsoever to do anything with that grenade, then why should he even get a Navy Cross?

NO matter how the British give awards, no matter what all the REMFs think, the men with him saw exactly what he did. But i guess they were all liars.

And as for experts who say people with a fatal headshots are 100% DRT, those shot people have a funny way of not doing what you think. The guy murdered on the sidewalk in NYC a few days ago is a classic example. He was shot in the back of the head. Witnesses said half his face was gone. They said he was still trying to speak for a few seconds afterwards.

Futhermore, the absence of just distribution of awards bumps down the line. The Navy Cross isn’t given thhe way it should be because it’s the new MOH. And Bronze and silver stars even used to mean something. Now thats what they give Jessica Lynch for not firing a round, hiding in the back seat in the fetal position, and getting captured.

Nobody does what they do for medals. But it’s a travesty to cheapen the lowest medals, and to be so stingy with the top ones that they are realistically never awarded.

The truth is that our goverment simply doesn’t want to give medals to anyone for fighting moslems. Also, they do not want MOH recipients walking around another 4 or 5 decades being a pain in the a$$.


20 posted on 12/12/2012 7:52:30 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: calex59

2600 were awarded before WWII, since then 861, 530 posthumously. A while back I did read all of the citations from the WWII period forward. While the act of falling on a grenade was recognized I believe it was about 15% of the time that it was the cause of the award.


21 posted on 12/12/2012 7:54:36 PM PST by xone
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To: BluH2o

All that aside, it seems rather insulting to say that he didn’t intend to do as such when apparently his fellow Marines said he intended to do it.


22 posted on 12/12/2012 8:00:26 PM PST by Bogey78O (We had a good run. Coulda been great still.)
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To: xone

More MOH have been awarded for deliberately falling on a grenade, than for any other single act.


23 posted on 12/12/2012 8:03:39 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: DesertRhino

No doubt, since there are so many other ‘acts’ that can rate it. The point is that falling on a grenade doesn’t account for ‘most’ of the MOH awards.


24 posted on 12/12/2012 8:11:34 PM PST by xone
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To: simplesimon
Sargent York in WWI was awarded the MOH for the right reason. The Navy SEAL’s are one one of the best examples of mission creep. They started off clearing mines in WWII from enemy beach heads to facilitate Marine amphibious landings and evolved to where they are today. The Army has their Rangers, Green Beret, and Delta Force ... the Marines RECON. The Navy has their SEAL teams ... totally redundant.
Not diminishing Mike Monsoor ... but his sacrifice is not worthy of the MOH.
25 posted on 12/12/2012 8:12:17 PM PST by BluH2o
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To: xone

The point is, it isn’t exactly rare as you wished to imply. If you got it, it is more likely you did -that- than anything else.


26 posted on 12/12/2012 8:16:41 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Bogey78O
All that aside, it seems rather insulting to say that he didn’t intend to do as such when apparently his fellow Marines said he intended to do it.

My point was, whether he was conscious, or not, when his body ended up on an exploding grenade ... it's not an act worthy of the MOH. A lesser award yes ... not the MOH.

27 posted on 12/12/2012 8:21:31 PM PST by BluH2o
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To: BluH2o

I know, that’s why I said “all that aside”.

The Navy Cross is still a fine honor.


28 posted on 12/12/2012 8:24:46 PM PST by Bogey78O (We had a good run. Coulda been great still.)
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To: BluH2o

Here’s the law.

“distinguished himself conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty.”
Thats it, period. Very simple and easily explained.

Mansour saw the grenade, warned his team, and deliberately absorbed the blast to protect them. Do you argue he did not distinguish himself gallantly, intrepidly?
Did using his body to absorb a grenade risk his life?
Is it beyond the call of duty to ask them to willingly, and immediately, die to save their team?

You are falling victim to the wacky cult that says a MOH must have some comic book kind of plot to be awarded. It is actually simple criteria until rear echelon jackasses and jealous carreerist 0-7s get to decide what rates it.

It’s simple, an above and beyond effort, deliberate, solid and bravly performed, with a risk of life beyond the call of duty. All grunts are at risk of being injured or killed by grenades,,,but they are trained to seek cover, not to use their body to absorb the blast. THAT is why it is above and beyond.


29 posted on 12/12/2012 8:40:42 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Patriot365
In the Civil War it was awarded to men for saving the flag from being captured by the enemy or keeping it from falling to the ground after its bearer had been shot. Search the Medal of Honor online

I have, extensively.

So why now must it be given to those who simply commit suicide although for a good cause?

It has been awarded many many times for exactly that. Perhaps you should study the history a little more.

30 posted on 12/12/2012 8:50:25 PM PST by Graybeard58 ("Civil rights” leader and MSNB-Hee Haw host Al Sharpton - Larry Elder)
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To: DesertRhino

Thank you ~

I couldn’t find the words so I will “ditto” what you’ve said.


31 posted on 12/13/2012 4:19:35 AM PST by simplesimon (NEVER forget Benghazi ~!)
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To: BluH2o

If it’s so redundant, then why have any special teams in any of our branches ?

In my not so humble opinion, you indeed are diminishing Mike. You are saying his sacrifice is worthless by stating it’s not worthy of the MOH ~!

You have your opinion and I have mine so we’ll just have to agree to disagree.


32 posted on 12/13/2012 4:26:35 AM PST by simplesimon (NEVER forget Benghazi ~!)
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To: Patriot365

Commit suicide? What? He sacrificed himself so others may live. Did Jesus Christ commit suicide? Never mind don’t answer that.


33 posted on 12/13/2012 6:30:54 AM PST by Bulwyf
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To: Bulwyf
There was a time when our national morality, the federal government that represented the people and general Judeo-Christian ethics all ran parallel with one another. The prevailing notion that there is no greater love than to lay down one's life for others made memorializing the ultimate sacrifice with the highest degree of recognition a no-brainer.

We've *evolved* beyond such quaint notions.

34 posted on 12/13/2012 6:37:50 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: DesertRhino
I have never implied it was rare.

If you got it, it is more likely you did -that- than anything else.

That's not true at all, it has been awarded almost 3500 times, and most were for something else. It is interesting reading, but at the same time very difficult to read the citations from WWII forward.

35 posted on 12/13/2012 7:16:14 AM PST by xone
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To: simplesimon
You are saying his sacrifice is worthless by stating it’s not worthy of the MOH ~!

Don't follow your logic on 'his sacrifice is worthless' ... that's not what I said or implied. The Navy Cross, yes ... the MOH, no.

36 posted on 12/13/2012 8:45:14 AM PST by BluH2o
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To: Gay State Conservative
Given that it's the *Congressional*(sic) Medal of Honor

The Medal of honor is presented by the President in the name of Congress. It is not the Congressional(sic) Medal of Honor as you can see from the following:


37 posted on 12/13/2012 9:16:27 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: Gay State Conservative
how do they know that he was unconscious when it exploded and,if he was,was he unconscious when he *fell* the grenade?

That is a very good question.

38 posted on 12/13/2012 9:22:55 AM PST by McGruff (No New RINOs!)
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To: BluH2o
The Navy SEAL’s are one one of the best examples of mission creep. They started off clearing mines in WWII from enemy beach heads to facilitate Marine amphibious landings and evolved to where they are today.

They were not the Navy Seals in WWII. My father was Navy UDT #6 and the Underwater Demolition Teams were the foundation of what would become the Seals. He did a lot more than clear mines too, BTW.

39 posted on 12/13/2012 10:18:02 AM PST by mc5cents
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To: mc5cents
They were not the Navy Seals in WWII. My father was Navy UDT #6 and the Underwater Demolition Teams were the foundation of what would become the Seals.

Well aware of the history of the UDT/SEAL teams. Visited the UDT/SEAL Museum (twice) in Fort Pierce, FL which was the original WWII training site for Navy UDT. Met the curator of the museum, at the time, 'Patches' Watson. He was an original plank owner when UDT transitioned into the SEAL units. Also met a WWII UDT vet that cleared the landing zone of underwater obstructions at Iwo Jima prior to the Marines amphibious assault of the island.

40 posted on 12/13/2012 10:49:27 AM PST by BluH2o
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To: DesertRhino; calex59
I am still in the "B's" at CMOHS.org. I have reviewed records from WWII forward. As the list is aphabetized it covers 250 recipients from all conflicts. There have been 13 cases of smothering a grenade even though in some cases that wasn't the end of the action. As to the other things I had referenced these are but two:

From Vietnam, Capt Bennett:

Capt. Bennett was the pilot of a light aircraft flying an artillery adjustment mission along a heavily defended segment of route structure. A large concentration of enemy troops was massing for an attack on a friendly unit. Capt. Bennett requested tactical air support but was advised that none was available. He also requested artillery support but this too was denied due to the close proximity of friendly troops to the target. Capt. Bennett was determined to aid the endangered unit and elected to strafe the hostile positions. After 4 such passes, the enemy force began to retreat. Capt. Bennett continued the attack, but, as he completed his fifth strafing pass, his aircraft was struck by a surface-to-air missile, which severely damaged the left engine and the left main landing gear. As fire spread in the left engine, Capt. Bennett realized that recovery at a friendly airfield was impossible. He instructed his observer to prepare for an ejection, but was informed by the observer that his parachute had been shredded by the force of the impacting missile. Although Capt. Bennett had a good parachute, he knew that if he ejected, the observer would have no chance of survival. With complete disregard for his own life, Capt. Bennett elected to ditch the aircraft into the Gulf of Tonkin, even though he realized that a pilot of this type aircraft had never survived a ditching. The ensuing impact upon the water caused the aircraft to cartwheel and severely damaged the front cockpit, making escape for Capt. Bennett impossible. The observer successfully made his way out of the aircraft and was rescued. Capt. Bennett's unparalleled concern for his companion, extraordinary heroism and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty, at the cost of his life, were in keeping with the highest traditions of the military service and reflect great credit upon himself and the U.S. Air Force.

From WWII, Lt Antrim:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while interned as a prisoner of war of the enemy Japanese in the city of Makassar, Celebes, Netherlands East Indies, in April 1942. Acting instantly on behalf of a naval officer who was subjected to a vicious clubbing by a frenzied Japanese guard venting his insane wrath upon the helpless prisoner, Comdr. (then Lt.) Antrim boldly intervened, attempting to quiet the guard and finally persuading him to discuss the charges against the officer. With the entire Japanese force assembled and making extraordinary preparations for the threatened beating, and with the tension heightened by 2,700 Allied prisoners rapidly closing in, Comdr. Antrim courageously appealed to the fanatic enemy, risking his own life in a desperate effort to mitigate the punishment. When the other had been beaten unconscious by 15 blows of a hawser and was repeatedly kicked by 3 soldiers to a point beyond which he could not survive, Comdr. Antrim gallantly stepped forward and indicated to the perplexed guards that he would take the remainder of the punishment, throwing the Japanese completely off balance in their amazement and eliciting a roar of acclaim from the suddenly inspired Allied prisoners. By his fearless leadership and valiant concern for the welfare of another, he not only saved the life of a fellow officer and stunned the Japanese into sparing his own life but also brought about a new respect for American officers and men and a great improvement in camp living conditions. His heroic conduct throughout reflects the highest credit upon Comdr. Antrim and the U.S. Naval Service.

These records make it difficult to research many in one sitting as one is compelled to read the whole citation and the courage and selfless devotion displayed therein drive honest men to their knees.

41 posted on 12/17/2012 12:53:48 PM PST by xone
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