Posted on 12/15/2012 7:57:59 AM PST by marktwain
Backers of laws that let pretty much all law-abiding carry concealed guns in public places often argue that these laws will sometimes enable people to stop mass shootings. Opponents occasionally ask: If that’s so, what examples can one give of civilians armed with guns stopping such shootings? Sometimes, I hear people asking if even one such example can be found, or saying that they haven’t heard even one such example.
Naturally, such examples will be rare, partly because mass shootings are rare, partly because many mass shootings happen in supposedly “gun-free” zones (such as schools, universities, or private property posted with a no-guns sign) in which gun carrying isn’t allowed, and partly for other reasons. Moreover, at least some examples are contested, because it might be unclear — as you’ll see below — whether the shooter had been planning to kill more people when he was stopped. But here are instances that I have seen, not counting killings stopped by people who were off-duty police officers (or police officers from other jurisdictions) at the time of the shooting.
1. In Pearl, Mississippi in 1997, 16-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned to death his mother at home, then killed two students and injured seven at his high school. As he was leaving the school, he was stopped by Assistant Principal Joel Myrick, who had gone out to get a handgun from his car. I have seen sources that state that Woodham was on the way to Pearl Junior High School to continue shooting, though I couldn’t find any contemporaneous news articles that so state.
2. In Edinboro, Pennsylvania in 1996, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students. He had just left the dance hall, carrying his gun — possibly to attack more people, though the stories that I’ve seen are unclear — when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home. It’s not clear whether Wurst was planning to kill others, would have gotten into a gun battle with the police, or would have otherwise killed more people had Strand not stopped him.
3. In Winnemucca, Nevada in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with three hundred people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed carry license). It’s not clear whether Villagomez would have killed more people; the killings were apparently the result of a family feud, and I could see no information on whether Villagomez had more names on his list, nor could one tell whether he would have killed more people in trying to evade capture.
4. In Colorado Springs in 2007, Matthew Murray killed four people at a church. He was then shot several times by Jeanne Assam, a church member, volunteer security guard, and former police officer (she had been dismissed by a police department 10 years before, and to my knowledge hadn’t worked as a police officer since). Murray, knocked down and badly wounded, killed himself; it is again not clear whether he would have killed more people had he not been wounded, but my guess is that he would have.
So it appears that civilians armed with guns are sometimes willing to intervene to stop someone who had just committed a mass shooting in public. In what fraction of mass shootings would such interventions happen, if gun possession were allowed in the places where the shootings happen? We don’t know. In what fraction would interventions prevent more killings and injuries, as opposed to capturing or killing the murderer after he’s already done? We don’t know. In what fraction would interventions lead to more injuries to bystanders? Again, we don’t know. Finally, always keep in mind that mass shootings in public places should not be the main focus in the gun debate, whether for gun control or gun decontrol: They on average account for much less than 1% of all homicides in the U.S., and are unusually hard to stop through gun control laws (since the killer is bent on committing a publicly visible murder and is thus unlikely to be much deterred by gun control law, or by the prospect of encountering an armed bystander).
Still, people have asked for examples of some shootings in which a civilian armed with a gun intervened and brought down the shooter — so here they are.
Or as likely, feel as charmed by the prospect as by the prospect of dancing in the sewer. No earnest advice to stop it would be needed.
Another thread just mentioned a shooter @a Birmingham hospital. Shot three people, he was killed by an armed security guard.
That’s the one, thanks again
Not a good idea to copycat Connecticut in red state, red neck, Alabama. Where they at least dare to have guards with guns, if not more.
Jeanne Assam is probably the best & most recent example, although your average person would not be as well trained as she was.
There was this time I attached ACME rockets to roller skates........
I’m afraid I’ve forgotten the title, but there was also a book with statistical analysis on where there is more gun violence—in gun free cities and states, or in states which allow citizens to carry. The statistics are pretty clear.
An American citizen can carry a fully automatic weapon... And kill bad guys that are out to maim,torture, and kill other citizens..... But that's only if they are in a different country and under orders by an American president. Yet in our own country, The American citizens are not aloud to fully protect ourselves and our loved ones from the bad guys, with semi-automatic weapons or rifle that our founders and the Constitution guaranteed us.Crazy isn't it.
Albeit the 32 homicides in Chicago this year are not ‘mass shootings’ however, leave people just as dead. Titillating Sit coms or music video with sexy themes with half clad people or showing leather jacked foul mouth tough women and men killing “the enemy” as role models or car ads showing reckless driving etc. etc. are all complicit in this amoral culture we live in where life is dirt cheap and people made even cheaper....some how this must affect the minds of those on the edge. Cleaning up that exposure might help some....
EXCELLENT!
I know a lot of people here do not like Rudy; however, when he took over as Mayor of NYC he cleaned up what was once a cr@p filled toilet bowl with no running water.
Everyone hated him, especially the unions. He cleaned up the streets, locked up the crazies, removed the homeless from the streets, made NYC a clean safe place.
Now NYC is becoming what it once was, prior to Rudy.
Actually, I’ve seen a lot of violent game addiction, up close and personal.
Almost always hitting far-left, liberal adults and youngsters. To get “turn” at the game could lead to fistfight, sometimes. Very weird.
Chicago sees that many killings in a hot weekend... whaddya mean this year?
A good point in this article is that most times these mass shootings take place in a gun free zone. The shooter knows he is not going to be thwarted.
How many mass shootings have we ever had in a Pro Bass or a Cabela’s store? Safest place in the world to be. Half the customers are CC.
Politically correct euphemisms are offered up to confuse facts.
good baddog
Another consideration is that if a civilian stops a shooter early, it’s difficult to know whether or not a mass shooting was averted. And since it’s a non-event, the media won’t cover it.
Not even the vague “the killer was angry.”
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