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Gunman had "altercation" with school staff day before masssacre
NBC News ^ | December 15, 2012 | Tracy Connor

Posted on 12/15/2012 10:03:16 AM PST by xsrdx

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To: P-Marlowe
Where is God At Times Like These? A meditation in the wake of a violent atrocity [Prayer Ping]

We really need to pray for everyone involed. Asking why doesn't give us answers, but asking God what we can do next will provide answers.

51 posted on 12/15/2012 11:25:33 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: xsrdx

First, there are already more than 20,000 gun control laws actively on the books today and none of them prevented this tragedy. Second, millions upon million of people in America own guns and 99.9999% of them have never and will never do anything like this.

So, let’s lose the hysteria and analyze the facts - a PERSON did this, NOT a hunk of steel. In Portland, a PERSON killed two people in the mall, NOT a hunk of steel! In Denver, a PERSON shot up the theater, NOT a hunk of steel!!

NONE of these facts will matter to the gun-grabbing nanny-staters, because they focus solely on the gun and nothing else. So, what happens if ALL guns are outlawed and forcibly collected by the feds? Someone bent on committing mass murder may turn to knives, hatchets, chainsaws or machetes. So, we outlaw those. The next person to commit a heinous crime may use a bat, poison, poison gas or a semi-tractor. And the one after that may use a car, a pen or pencil, a rock, his hands . . . . . . so when do we blame the PERSON and NOT the inanimate weapon!???

The fact remains that until the left understands that murdering humans by ANY means including their favorite method, abortion, human life will be valueless and more copycats will come out to exercise their demented mass murder of innocent people.

All of that said, it occurs to me that the gun-grabbers are from the leftist school of complete control. What that means is that if 1 person commits a gun crime then, under the leftist theory of the “collective” and “groupthink”, they believe that ALL gun owners will commit mass murder unless they eliminate guns (good luck with that!). So, the calls for more gun control by the left after these incidents is twofold - eliminate the “balance of power” the Founding Fathers so carefully wove into the Constitution and gain total control over the people.

Another part that affects all of this is the fact that laws, whether gun laws, robbery laws, or whatever, are written solely to affect law-abiding citizens. People who commit crimes are called “outlaws” and criminals because they DON’T adhere to the laws created to control or stop their illegal activities.

So, should the left create additional gun control laws, will it prevent the next gun-related crime? Of course not. Laws only affect those of us who obey them. Those who disregard the law won’t be stopped from committing whatever crime they want to commit.

As a final note, Adam Lanza did not own the guns he used to murder all of the people at Sandy Hook Elementary. They were his mother’s guns and they were all legally purchased and registered. Which begs the question, what will any NEW gun control laws accomplish?


52 posted on 12/15/2012 11:28:29 AM PST by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for white collar criminals!!)
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To: justa-hairyape
So they did not beef up security after the altercation ?

Oh, but there would be no need to beef up security! The school was a gun-free zone, don-cha-know...

53 posted on 12/15/2012 11:33:26 AM PST by COBOL2Java (GOPe: Already prepping for their 2016 loss - Jeb Bush!)
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To: Noamie

Rather than gun control, they should stop the mind control our youth experience when they watch Hollywood trash, play violent video games, listen to vicious hate-filled music and consume mind-altering drugs.


54 posted on 12/15/2012 11:36:32 AM PST by Toespi
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To: arthurus
“You love those children more than ME!”

Yes, I could see that... if she were still alive to be hurt by it. But after killing her... I don't get it.

55 posted on 12/15/2012 11:39:48 AM PST by A_perfect_lady (Great nations are born stoic and die epicurean. -Will Durant)
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To: maggief

Pen: In case you missed, see post 28 for background for this post.

Maggief: “I wonder if there was a recent crisis intervention of some sort.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Certainly something to keep in mind. This could have been building for a week or two-—one day more emotionally escalating than the day before.

Could have started with an extreme argument with mother.

Mon?, Tues (reports he tried to buy gun), Wed, Thurs, Fri.

Motive then being, not so much an attack on mother & her precious school class, but an attack on the “system” -— mother being part of the system “against” him.

Then, it is possible that the classes he chose to shoot were opportunistic-— the closest ones available.


56 posted on 12/15/2012 11:41:21 AM PST by thouworm (.)
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To: xsrdx

‘Deeply Disturbed’ Lanza Targeted School Psychologist; Media Fixates on Guns

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/12/15/Media-Ignore-Clear-Mental-Health-Evoidence-To-Fixate-On-Guns?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BreitbartFeed+%28Breitbart+Feed%29


57 posted on 12/15/2012 11:43:26 AM PST by Fred (http://thebubblefilm.com/)
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To: penelopesire

Sorry: I addressed you in post 56 and then forgot to ping.


58 posted on 12/15/2012 11:43:58 AM PST by thouworm (.)
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To: Drew68
Come Christmas morning when Americans turn on their TVs and see images of grieving parents, unopened presents and little kid-sized coffins being lowered in to the ground, every minivan-driving soccer mom in the land is going to be screaming for Obama to do something. Congratulations; you just won the internet! Where would you like it delivered? I couldn't agree more with your assertion, sad to say.
59 posted on 12/15/2012 11:44:06 AM PST by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: A_perfect_lady
I’m wondering now if the personality disorder wasn’t Narcissism. Folks like that get absolutely outraged over any personal slight, from what I’ve seen. They have this “How dare you offend me, I will show you what happens when you offend ME...”

Now who does that remind me of? Hmmm. Oh, yeah, that usurper in our WH. He's going to play this for all it's worth in getting guns banned so that only his civilian army has them.

60 posted on 12/15/2012 11:44:41 AM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: Noamie
... it shows the horrible state of our mental health system in America at the private and public levels. THAT’s the real story here.

I agree pretty much. I made some similar comments yesterday that almost all (I believe it actually is ALL) of these mass shootings have involved young men who were taking psychotropic drugs/medication.
But as I thought some more, there is a deeper rooted common thread to this problem. No it is not guns. Yes I believe the problem is greatly aggravated by the over prescription and/or poorly designed prescriptions of drugs that affect the brain. I believe, however, the real problem is an atheistic worldview that has been foisted upon our youth. The Columbine kids were darwinistic (survival of the fittest) atheists who targeted Christians in their school. Although the majority of these killers have leaned Left in their political positions (the Tucson shooter sought out Gifford because she was NOT leftist enough), the Norwegian shooter leaned Right regarding politics, but he was certainly an atheist regarding God and Christ. The Bible speaks about this mindset that afflicts a people - from Romans 1 where God will give a people up to their evil designs when they deny Him, to Psalm 9:17 where He says: The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

We have an anti-God and anti-Christ culture. Politicians mock God's Word; they tell people that butchering babies to avoid a 'problem' is good policy that embraces 'freedom of choice'; the Media will celebrate Christmas as long as you keep Christ out of the equation...
We are reaping what we have sowed. It is not guns. If there is no repentance it will only get worse. The Nation will be turned into hell...

61 posted on 12/15/2012 11:44:46 AM PST by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: Cyber Liberty

The reason it doesn’t matter is that this is not a question of motive but a question of what brought this person to the point where he no longer had a soul.

He was evil. The question is not the reason he did this but the reason why he became a monster. Why was he evil?


62 posted on 12/15/2012 11:48:03 AM PST by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds.)
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To: GladesGuru
What “heroic teachers”? ? ?

I did read one story about a teacher who locked her kids in the calls bathroom and told the shooter that they were in the gym. He shot her dead. What she did was heroic, she saved her kids.

63 posted on 12/15/2012 11:49:02 AM PST by pbear8 (the Lord is my light and my salvation)
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To: xsrdx

Very interesting!


64 posted on 12/15/2012 11:50:07 AM PST by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: gaijin

Could be a total fabrication just like 90% of what we heard yesterday. Or it would explain why he had his 24 year old brother’s ID. A 20 year old can’t buy a gun but a 24 year old can.


65 posted on 12/15/2012 11:50:36 AM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: Enterprise

He allegedly tried to buy a rifle two days before the argument with the four staffers. So the argument appears not to be the underlying motive.


66 posted on 12/15/2012 11:50:53 AM PST by UnwashedPeasant
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To: P-Marlowe
Why was he evil?

That is indeed the ultimate question that needs to be answered here. Motive would be a small part of that.

67 posted on 12/15/2012 11:58:42 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: GladesGuru
What “heroic teachers”? ? ? What is heroic about huddling in a closet?

Somewhat agree but where are they supposed to go if there is a gunman outside their door? I'd have had the kids go out the window if possible. We know the building was U shaped but we don't know if this school had windows. Too many schools these days don't have windows and if they do, they can't be opened and are reinforced. It's crazy not having windows that open. Fresh air would increase alertness so the kids would learn more and there would be less flu epidemics but that's another topic.

68 posted on 12/15/2012 12:00:00 PM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: Professional Engineer
Yesterday in China, 20 schools kids were killed with a knife

Please keep the facts straight. While I agree with your primary contention that people out for retribution will find a way to arm themselves with as lethal a weapon as possible, misstating the facts doesn't help make your point.

Knife attack at Chinese school wounds 22 children

69 posted on 12/15/2012 12:00:00 PM PST by GreenAccord (Bacon Akbar)
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To: Drew68

They should be screaming for schools to be better protected. They should demand that the “Gun Free Zone” signs be taken down. Schools advertise to psycho killers and those with temporary insanity or rage that they can come on in, and no one will stop them from doing terrible evil.

If I was one of the parents, I’d be asking why this guy with two average hand guns was able to kill 20 kids and no one was equipped to stop him. It will be interesting to find out how many minutes went by in this incident and how many times he needed to reload. There are two big picture questions from this incident that should be asked; Is it possible to get rid of all guns? Why are responsible protectors unarmed while murderers are armed?

These soccer moms should ask; why are you forcing us to leave our children unprotected?


70 posted on 12/15/2012 12:02:51 PM PST by Windy City Conservative
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To: GladesGuru
Shooting the mad gunner might be considered heroic, but since the North East is hard core commie, they have made it illegal for a teacher to be armed while on the job.

Just curious, but are there any states that allows a public school teacher to carry a firearm while on duty and if so, which states? I'm willing to bet that very few states, if any, allow this.

71 posted on 12/15/2012 12:04:00 PM PST by Labyrinthos
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To: Labyrinthos

Cripes they tried to get permission for pilots of passenger planes to carry and couldn’t do that.


72 posted on 12/15/2012 12:11:14 PM PST by BilLies (The Progressive Liberal American Press will be the death of freedom in this country.)
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To: xsrdx
Gunman had "altercation" with school staff day before masssacre

The questions I have:
1. How big of an altercation?
2. If it was with 4 people, sounds substantial enough for a red flag and the police to be notified.
3. Did it require 4 people to come together in order to force him to leave the school the day before?
4. Were the police notified and did they follow up?
5. If the police were not notified, why not?

73 posted on 12/15/2012 12:11:34 PM PST by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
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To: xsrdx

“Do you know who I am?” syndrome


74 posted on 12/15/2012 12:11:59 PM PST by VRWC For Truth (Roberts has perverted the Constitution)
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To: Windy City Conservative
These soccer moms should ask; why are you forcing us to leave our children unprotected?

Logical responses and emotional responses are two very different things. Gun control laws don't work. We know that. So what? Laws are rarely written to protect people. Often they're written simply to make people feel better. Arming teachers won't make people feel better. Banning guns will.

75 posted on 12/15/2012 12:13:01 PM PST by Drew68
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To: maggief; penelopesire

No record mother EVER worked at the school.

There have been reports that Nancy Lanza worked at the school. But ABC News and “The Today Show” reported that Janet Robinson, superintendent of schools in Newtown, said there is no record that Adam Lanza or his mother Lanza ever worked there.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2969067/posts

From same article:

The gunman forced his way into Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown Friday morning by blasting as many as a half-dozen shots through the front door, police said....

One of those killed, first-grade teacher Victoria Soto, died after hiding her students, a source told The Courant.

Soto was a teacher in room 10, the classroom next to where the shooting began, the source said. She hid her students — 15 or 16 of them, some possibly in a bathroom — before the gunman entered the room.

He wanted to shoot more people, the source said, but, seeing no one but Soto, he shot her, then left the room, the source sad.


76 posted on 12/15/2012 12:13:34 PM PST by thouworm (.)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
EVERYONE should keep their firearms locked up and HIDE THE KEY (and ONLY the person the guns are registered to knows where the key(s) are just in case they’re stolen if not for any other reason!!

Got a BIG problem with that word, "EVERYONE". Lotta good that'll do you when someone is comin' through the door! Where I live, everyone has guns. They keep some in cases or safes, and some in the open. Most of these folks have kids. The children learn as toddlers to leave them alone.

(not sure you're on the right forum with that kind of thinking)

77 posted on 12/15/2012 12:16:57 PM PST by Roccus
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To: GladesGuru
I today's PC liberal world Hero means any, mostly adult, victim that survives, or is killed, in a horrific act or mass shooting.
78 posted on 12/15/2012 12:17:16 PM PST by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: xsrdx
Robert Licata said his 6-year-old son was in class when the gunman burst in and shot the teacher.

"That's when my son grabbed a bunch of his friends and ran out the door," he told The Associated Press. "He was very brave."

Wow!

79 posted on 12/15/2012 12:17:42 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: xsrdx
“We’ve been doing everything we need to do to peel back the onion, layer by layer, and get more information,” Vance said.

Peel it back to the early 70's when baby killing was made legal by the 'we have rights' crew and the evil gov't made it legal and then peel another layer to the early 60's when 'the offended' got God out of our schools and the evil gov't made it legal.

Now do everything you need to do - speak out that this nation reaps what is sows, more than it sows, LATER than it sows - and our harvest is we have children who have no value for life and demonstrate it in the godless schools.

80 posted on 12/15/2012 12:18:10 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Red in Blue PA

Makes you kinda wonder, doesn’t it? They coordinate special privileges for the favored media while the Phony in Chief wipes away a tender tear with his middle finger...in barely 24 hours. How well-tuned is their War Room. And since it’s in Conn, the locals want to play along with Obama.


81 posted on 12/15/2012 12:19:49 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: gundog
Me too, frankly. This is the one they've been waiting for.

And now more than ever is the time for rational thought:

-- He drove himself to the school in a motor vehicle, just like the killers in Tucson and Aurora. If only we had outlawed private citizens from possessing a motor vehicle, then there is a good chance these mass murders would not have happened.

-- Suppose this nut job used a bulldozer or Mack Truck to kill these kids. Would we be debating access to heavy equipment and machinery?

-- Suppose this nut fire-bombed the classrooms using incendiary devices made from common household products and ignited with a $.99 Bic lighter. Would we even consider banning the private possession of gasoline, glass bottles, flamable fabric, and matches/lighters.

82 posted on 12/15/2012 12:19:57 PM PST by Labyrinthos
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
” EVERYONE should keep their firearms locked up and HIDE THE KEY (and ONLY the person the guns are registered to knows where the key(s) are just in case they’re stolen if not for any other reason!!”

What good is a locked up unloaded gun if needed in a hurry?

Just as well have a golf club for self defense.

83 posted on 12/15/2012 12:22:38 PM PST by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: Drew68
Arming teachers won't make people feel better.

It would make ME feel better.

84 posted on 12/15/2012 12:23:14 PM PST by iowamomforfreedom
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To: Cheerio
I've said it before and I'll say it again, lock up the criminally insane. Saying that medication and counseling make them "fit into society" just masks their issues. They can "pass" for normal. If they would be found in court as "not accountable for their own actions", then they need to be under house arrest monitored by their caregiver.

But no, the Libs' solution to disarm everyone else (and not the criminals who ignore the laws).

85 posted on 12/15/2012 12:27:32 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

The problem with locks is they only stop the honest.

He lived there. He knew where they were. Over time one can often discern where the key is, what the combination is, or how to cut thru the safe (as some Sawz-All owners learned the hard way). If nothing else, and considering he was hell-bent on killing, torturing her into opening a hardened safe works too.


86 posted on 12/15/2012 12:27:52 PM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: gaijin

The Administration would’ve sold to him if he said he was walking the guns to Mexico.


87 posted on 12/15/2012 12:29:32 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: xsrdx

Instead of being protected by armed men for the rest of his life, why doesn’t Obama advocate gun control that would make having such protection uneccesary? These politicians advocate leaving our children unprotected while they galavant from place to place armed to the T. Meanwhile they say we can’t deport all illegal aliens, but we can round up all the guns. I’m so tired of their constant illogic. It seems logic and politics are completely mutually exclusive.


88 posted on 12/15/2012 12:32:07 PM PST by Windy City Conservative
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To: thouworm; penelopesire

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/adam-lanzas-mom-pulled-school-relative/story?id=17985433

The aunt of Connecticut shooter Adam Lanza said the shooter’s mother pulled him out of Newtown’s public school system because she was unhappy with the school district’s plans for her son.

Adam Lanza’s mother Nancy, 52, was the first victim of his Friday shooting spree. Lanza shot Nancy in the face and then drove her car to Sandy Hook Elementary School, where he killed 20 students and six adults before taking his own life.

Marsha Lanza, who is Adam’s aunt and Nancy’s ex-sister-in-law, told Evelyn Thomas of ABC-owned-and-operated station WLS in Chicago that Nancy had once been a classroom aide at the Sandy Hook school.

Marsha, who lives in the Chicago suburb of Crystal Lake, said that Nancy had home-schooled Adam after pulling him out of the Newtown public school system. She did not know when Adam had left school. According to former classmates, Adam had attended the local high school at least through part of 10th grade.


89 posted on 12/15/2012 12:36:30 PM PST by maggief
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To: thouworm

Q. Why wasn’t LE on site if there was trouble the day before?


90 posted on 12/15/2012 12:40:32 PM PST by maggief
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To: maggief

was just going to post that to you

so...

homeschooled for at least for 2 yrs.

because she was unhappy with the school district’s PLANS??? for her son.

Nancy had once been a classroom aide at the Sandy Hook school. -— [and back to this again... even though there is no record accding to school sup. Volunteer???]


91 posted on 12/15/2012 12:44:27 PM PST by thouworm (.)
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To: Beagle8U

BTW there are what is known as ‘safe storage’ gun control laws by state. Do not know if CT has them.


92 posted on 12/15/2012 12:49:48 PM PST by Fred (http://thebubblefilm.com/)
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To: maggief

Oh, goody...

a twofer....

gun owners AND home schoolers.

A liberal’s wet dream come true!


93 posted on 12/15/2012 12:52:31 PM PST by Roccus
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To: Windy City Conservative

If Obama (and Bloomberg) are really concerned about GUNS in public, rather than the PUBLIC with guns, they should begin by getting rid of all of the evil guns carried by their security details. Lead by example.

I wonder if the Secret Service is disarmed when Obama goes into a “gun free zone” school to give a speech. It would make a good press-conference question. (Actually, I don’t wonder—hence my tag line).


94 posted on 12/15/2012 12:54:47 PM PST by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: thouworm

Volunteer? That’s my guess.

Looks like problems may have been escalating. I wonder if some of those guns were for her own protection from her son. The seemed quite isolated.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/nyregion/friends-of-gunmans-mother-his-first-victim-recall-her-as-generous.html?_r=0

“She was really kind and warm,” Mr. Leff said, “but she always seemed a little bit high-strung.”

He declined to elaborate, but in a post on his personal Web site, he said he felt a distance from her that was explained when he heard, after the shootings, “how difficult her troubled son,” Adam, “was making things for her.”

She was “handling a very difficult situation with uncommon grace,” he wrote.


95 posted on 12/15/2012 12:55:48 PM PST by maggief
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To: iowamomforfreedom
It would make ME feel better.

I'm not talking about you or I posting here on the Free Republic echo chamber. I'm talking about those millions of others out there who don't see any good reason why we should own semi-automatic firearms and high-capacity magazines. Their guy won the election.

96 posted on 12/15/2012 12:56:41 PM PST by Drew68
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To: Roccus

Good point.


97 posted on 12/15/2012 12:57:55 PM PST by maggief
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To: maggief; The Cajun

good question-—that can only be answered by the only living witness to the altercation

btw, also was one of TheCajun’s very good questions about the altercation, See post 73.


98 posted on 12/15/2012 1:00:50 PM PST by thouworm (.)
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To: BilLies
"Cripes they tried to get permission for pilots of passenger planes to carry and couldn’t do that."

Incorrect. That was legalized.

99 posted on 12/15/2012 1:05:15 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: a fool in paradise

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/12/far-left-groups-defeated-connecticut-mental-health-protection-laws-just-months-before-shooting/


100 posted on 12/15/2012 1:06:30 PM PST by Fred (http://thebubblefilm.com/)
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