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Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter
nwcn.com ^ | 14 December, 2012 | Mike Benner

Posted on 12/15/2012 12:30:31 PM PST by marktwain

PORTLAND, Ore ... Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.

"I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?'"

The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.

"He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."

The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.

"As I was going down to pull I saw someone in the back of the charlotte move and I knew if I fired and missed I could hit them."

Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

(Excerpt) Read more at nwcn.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: armedcitizen; banglist; ccw; clackamas; guncontrol; or; oregon; secondamendment
So, a confrontation with a CCW holder may well have stopped the Clackamas mall shooter short.
1 posted on 12/15/2012 12:30:43 PM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain
Guns save more lives than they take.

I think that is what the Culture of Death finds most appalling.

2 posted on 12/15/2012 12:35:58 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Republicans have made themselves useless, toothless, and clueless.)
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To: marktwain

This is the first report of a concealed weapon carrier confronting this mall shooter. I’m betting there will be more. Spent pistol casings were found at the mall and the shooter didn’t have a pistol. Was the shooter wounded by pistol fire before he took his own life?


3 posted on 12/15/2012 12:36:35 PM PST by trailboss800
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To: marktwain

First I’ve heard of this. So is the mall a gun free zone or not? If it is, maybe he should have kept quiet about it.


4 posted on 12/15/2012 12:36:53 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: marktwain

“I know after he saw me I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself.”

Now if we could only convince the crazies and criminals to make that one the first shot...


5 posted on 12/15/2012 12:41:00 PM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: smokingfrog

He should not have kept quiet about it. Other people saw him and then we would suffer for the next 10 years people posting conspiracy theories about the “second Clackamas shooter.”

They won’t charge him - it’s up to the property owner because they set the policy and it’s private property.


6 posted on 12/15/2012 12:44:24 PM PST by volunbeer (We must embrace austerity or austerity will embrace us)
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To: trailboss800

Gun jam could be as a result of the weapon being struck by a round. In addition, the death may also be as a result of someone taking the guy out.

What bothers me about this, is that there seems to be a mindset by law enforcement that nobody else is qualified to use lethal force but them.

Did someone witness him shoot himself, or is that just the operational explanation at this point?

This may be common knowledge, and so I may be off base.


7 posted on 12/15/2012 12:47:38 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Hurricane Sandy..., a week later and over 60 million Americans still didn't have power.)
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To: marktwain

I’m willing to bet that the last shot he fired WAS the one he used on himself. Any takers?


8 posted on 12/15/2012 12:58:00 PM PST by Cincinnatus
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To: Cincinnatus

LOL, it would be the last.


9 posted on 12/15/2012 1:04:34 PM PST by boomop1 (term limits will only save this country.)
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To: All

I thought malls were gun-free zones,,,


10 posted on 12/15/2012 1:14:56 PM PST by CharlotteVRWC
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To: marktwain

*


11 posted on 12/15/2012 1:16:18 PM PST by PMAS (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing)
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To: Cincinnatus

Ask Vince Foster.


12 posted on 12/15/2012 1:18:05 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: volunbeer

The police radio chatter that night included references to a CCL and may have mentioned this guy’s name and even spelled out his surname for the command post. I heard it through a scanner app on my phone.


13 posted on 12/15/2012 1:24:07 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: JimRed
“I know after he saw me I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself.”

What that says is that just the thought of armed resistance can stop some of these raging loons. Also kudos to this 22 yr old for having the discipline and presence of mind to not shoot because he couldn't be certain of the backstop.

14 posted on 12/15/2012 1:41:42 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Charles Martel

A scanner app !!

Tell me more please.


15 posted on 12/15/2012 1:51:11 PM PST by onona (Former Plattsburgh AFB Survivor)
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To: Cincinnatus
I’m willing to bet that the last shot he fired WAS the one he used on himself

I had a friend who committed suicide. He shot himself in the head twice with a .22 rifle. Ate the gun. First shot didn't finish him. He pulled the trigger a second time.

If I ever again have to defend myself, I won't count on a single head shot doing the job.

16 posted on 12/15/2012 1:53:32 PM PST by JoeFromSidney ( New book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: marktwain

There were pistol shell casings and the shooter had a rifle? Makes me wonder how many other suicide/killers have a little help making that decision.


17 posted on 12/15/2012 1:57:21 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: onona

I had one on my android phone. I would assume there is an iphone app as well.


18 posted on 12/15/2012 2:04:30 PM PST by visualops (artlife.us)
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To: DoughtyOne

What bothers me about this, is that there seems to be a mindset by law enforcement that nobody else is qualified to use lethal force but them.


I don’t believe this is true based on my experiences in law enforcement and I was one of the firearms instructors that set up the active shooter training for a 300+ officer department.

I think the major concern for law enforcement is having non-uniformed folks - either CCW civilians or detectives/off-duty LEO’s on scene with firearms drawn. I always worried I would shoot the wrong person (like the federal agent killed by the retired cop in NY wrestling with a robber) or get shot by another officer or armed civilian when I responded.

I am all for CCW and I have never had any misconceptions about my ability to protect everyone. I believe everyone has a God-given right to protect themselves.

However, I get tired of people blindly spouting off that one person with a CCW could stop anything without collateral damage. Critical incidents involving firearms are a tricky business for both law enforcement and military and making a 50ft shot with a handgun in a crowded mall is not as easy as the arm-chair Rambo’s claim.

If you think I am full of crap just ask Ayoob or one of the senior trainers at the Gunsite Academy. They will say the same thing.

If the story is true about the guy at the Clackamas mall shooting who did not take the shot I give him kudos. It is possible he influenced or impacted the thinking of the shooter by simply assuming a good tactical position while recognizing his own limitations. Had the shooter continued this gentleman gave himself a tactical edge (and a stable platform) from which to engage and that demonstrates an excellent mental foundation for concealed carry.

I teach my civilian classes and LEO’s that pulling the firearm out is the easy part.... putting rounds on target with adrenaline pumping through your mind and body is the hard part. The difficulty is multiplied in a crowd with panicked people. I know guys who were expert shots on the range that could not shoot for crap when it counted. I saw officers that were not all that great on the range that were cold as ice and did not miss when it counted. You never know.... it’s tricky business and I agree with the best trainers out there - mental conditioning is the most important thing.

The video of Columbine showed how chaotic the situation can be and you would have needed to be very close to the shooters to engage because there were students running all over the place. Most of their shots were at close range against targets that froze or tried to hide in plain view. You would have needed to advance on the shooters and likely draw their attention - you would worry about shooting a kid trying to run away in your field of fire - they did not give a damn. They had the advantage.

Just food for thought. Active shooting against an armed opponent requires many working parts under extreme duress. It is easy for someone to write one sentence differing with what I just wrote, but I bet they have either not experienced it or given it half the thought they should.

I would urge anyone to be prepared to protect themselves, but never think simply having a firearm or access to a firearm will do the trick. Conditioning and practicing is just as important as carrying.


19 posted on 12/15/2012 2:04:40 PM PST by volunbeer (We must embrace austerity or austerity will embrace us)
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To: volunbeer

Great, informative and interesting post. Thank you.


20 posted on 12/15/2012 2:18:27 PM PST by manic4organic (It was nice knowing you, America.)
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To: marktwain

I knew several LEO (sherrif deputy at jail) - told me
even before the SHTF were carrying their guns off duty when
leaving house

Places mentioned Malls, Movie theatres.......


21 posted on 12/15/2012 2:23:44 PM PST by njslim (St)
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To: volunbeer

You seem to be more thoughtful about this and also have more experience than a lot of people around here. What do you think are some possible solutions to reduce the likelihood of these mass shootings, especially at schools?


22 posted on 12/15/2012 2:25:37 PM PST by wideminded
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To: wideminded

Bring God back into the public arena. You don’t have to be a Christian or even be saved to understand how beneficial it is to believe that there is something bigger than you in this universe. Acts like these are a result of supreme selfishness and narcissism - a concept that most with mental illness still understand.

We need a revival of the traditional family in our country although it’s unlikely to happen. I had Aunt’s who were mentally ill that were cared for and loved by my family growing up. There was no need for a hospital or government agencies.... they took care of their own and never complained. Our best friends have a highly autistic son and they love him, care for him, and never complain. He has made tremendous progress and I respect them deeply for it. They put his needs above their own. His mother sacrificed her career for him. I would do the same for my children.

We need to stop thinking that a pill cures all. It’s just like welfare - giving money without structure does more harm than good. We often medicate people like this because we are lazy instead of doing the right thing.

There are many things that can mitigate acts of evil like this, but we will never completely erase them. Humans are very fragile and in many ways our advanced society is far more harsh today than it was before we had so much. It has always happened, but I think it will become more common given our current moral decay and selfishness.

We have a flawed concept of treating mental illness. We have replaced our moral responsibilities to care for our own with government programs and pills. We have a society where some mothers/fathers believe their career is more important than their child who has problems. Our solutions will never replace the love and care of a family that nurtures a child with special needs to maximize their potential and not harm others.


23 posted on 12/15/2012 2:43:40 PM PST by volunbeer (We must embrace austerity or austerity will embrace us)
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To: volunbeer

I have law enforcement experience, and consider myself to be a pretty cool and calm guy. I recently when throught he FBI Citizens Academy. In the “shoot/don’t shoot” excersize I was the team leader. My thoughts were, “there’s nothing to this”. When the bad guy came around the corner with his orange gun I did shoot, and I did hit him, but much to my surprise I think adrenaline actually shot out of my ears. I can only imagine what it would be like in real life. There is no greater rush than knowing you have about a tenth of a second to decide whether to shoot or not. And people will be second guessing your decision from the comfort of their offices for years to come.


24 posted on 12/15/2012 2:58:55 PM PST by suthener
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To: suthener

Okay, when=went, he=the.


25 posted on 12/15/2012 3:01:09 PM PST by suthener
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To: marktwain; abcraghead; aimhigh; Archie Bunker on steroids; bicycle thug; blackie; coffeebreak; ...
If you aren't on this ping list and are interested
in articles about Oregon, please FReepmail me.

26 posted on 12/15/2012 3:30:05 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: marktwain
According to DOJ crime statistics, guns are used 2.5-million times per year to prevent violent crimes like rape, robbery, carjackings and home-invasions, 99% of the time without a shot being fired.

GUNFACTS DOT INFO

27 posted on 12/15/2012 4:14:37 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state." - Cornelius Tacitus, Roman Senator)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Thank you much for the link to that excellent reference. Even if the ignorant don’t know they’re ignorant, and can’t be bothered by facts, I will certainly get lots of use from it in the future.


28 posted on 12/15/2012 5:27:43 PM PST by publius911 (Look for the Union Label -- then buy something else)
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To: njslim

I was at church this evening for a Christmas play that my girls were in. A few of us were helping to take down the set after the play. One of the guys approached me and appeared a little ill at ease. Being a small-town cop, I’m pretty used to this stuff in a social setting. He excused himself for asking, but finally got to, “Um, are you armed right now?” I assured him that I was and prepared for a gun control rant. Instead, he said, “Good. I’m glad.” I was pleasantly surprised.


29 posted on 12/15/2012 5:31:59 PM PST by islander-11 (Save Nantucket - Vote Republican!!!)
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To: CharlotteVRWC

In Texas, some are, some aren’t. I never visit the one that is gun free!


30 posted on 12/15/2012 5:58:41 PM PST by TexasRedeye
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To: trailboss800
This is the first report of a concealed weapon carrier confronting this mall shooter. I’m betting there will be more.

I was wondering, but now this clinches the theory advanced by Davi Barker and posted by marktwain, as applied to Newtown, CT versus Clackamas, OR:

Auditing Shooting Rampage Statistics (Private Citizen vs Police Saves)
dailyanarchist.com ^ | 31 July, 2012 | Davi Barker
Posted on Sun Dec 09 2012 13:45:34 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time) by marktwain

The average number of people killed in mass shootings when stopped by police is 14.3
The average number of people killed in a mass shooting when stopped by a civilian is 2.3.

31 posted on 12/15/2012 6:37:37 PM PST by imardmd1
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To: marktwain

Not buying.I’m a fervent 2nd amendment person, but it sounds like BS. I was just about to take him out when ...


32 posted on 12/15/2012 6:40:43 PM PST by Figment
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To: volunbeer

“They won’t charge him”

Charge him for what? He probably wasn’t even there. He pulled no pistol, fired no shot, stopped no one from dying. My hero. Coulda, shoulda, woulda... didn’t. Give him a medal of freedom


33 posted on 12/15/2012 6:46:04 PM PST by Figment
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To: njslim

I knew several LEO (sherrif deputy at jail)

Yeah those jail security guards are real savvy about crime


34 posted on 12/15/2012 6:57:50 PM PST by Figment
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To: Figment
Not buying.I’m a fervent 2nd amendment person, but it sounds like BS. I was just about to take him out when ...

Obviously, you didn't watch the video of the interview.

35 posted on 12/16/2012 2:21:35 AM PST by meadsjn
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To: onona

The iPhone app was a free one called something like “5-0 Scanner”, but did an update and the name changed to “PoliceScanner+”. I’m not sure if it’s still a free app.


36 posted on 12/16/2012 4:09:47 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: marktwain

Why are we just finding out about this NOW?


37 posted on 12/16/2012 6:09:42 PM PST by _Jim (Conspiracy theories are the favored tools of the weak-minded.)
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To: marktwain

To the NAYSAYERS on this ‘new’ finding - interview with Nick Meli at this link:

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html


38 posted on 12/16/2012 6:14:32 PM PST by _Jim (Conspiracy theories are the favored tools of the weak-minded.)
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To: _Jim; All

“Why are we just finding out about this NOW?”

Because the MSM does not think it is important, or worse, it runs against the “story” that they are trying to portray, that guns are bad, and no one can be trusted with them, except of course, the government.

You might find these cases interesting. They were reported very little as well:

Mass Killings Stopped by Armed Citizens

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12/mass-killings-stopped-by-armed-citizens.html


39 posted on 12/16/2012 6:20:21 PM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Another link that references this unsung hero:

http://easybakegunclub.com/news/1943/Clackamas-Mall-Shooter-Was-Confonted-By-Concealed-.html


40 posted on 12/16/2012 7:15:49 PM PST by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
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To: marktwain

Thanks for the blog link; interesting compilation.


41 posted on 12/16/2012 7:31:21 PM PST by _Jim (Conspiracy theories are the favored tools of the weak-minded.)
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