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A Mother, a Gun Enthusiast and the First Victim
NY Times ^ | Dec 15 | MATT FLEGENHEIMER and RAVI SOMAIYA

Posted on 12/15/2012 7:20:48 PM PST by WilliamIII

Nancy Lanza loved guns, and often took her sons to one of the shooting ranges here in the suburbs of northeast of New York City, where there is an active community of gun enthusiasts, her friends said. At a local bar, she spoke at times about her gun collection.

It was one of those guns that was apparently used to take her life on Friday. Her killer was one of her sons, Adam Lanza, 20, who then drove to Sandy Hook Elementary School, where he killed 26 more people, 20 of them small children, the authorities said. He then shot himself.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; US: Connecticut
KEYWORDS: nancylanza; sandyhook; sandyhookmother; sandyhookweapons

1 posted on 12/15/2012 7:20:52 PM PST by WilliamIII
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To: WilliamIII

Of course the NYT would never place the blame where it belongs. On a society which has expelled fathers from the families and men from the schools.


2 posted on 12/15/2012 7:25:04 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: BenLurkin

Don’t forget the expulsion of God from schools and public life.


3 posted on 12/15/2012 7:27:35 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Why is the government more concerned about protecting a microbe on Mars than an unborn baby here?)
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To: WilliamIII

They got rid of God
They got rid of fathers
They got rid of mental hospitals
They got rid of reverence for Life
They got rid of personal responsibility

They’re working on the guns


4 posted on 12/15/2012 7:29:34 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Republicans have made themselves useless, toothless, and clueless.)
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To: WilliamIII

CONCLUSION: Don’t have children; they might kill you with your own guns.


5 posted on 12/15/2012 7:31:39 PM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

I got the vague, nagging impression that sneaking, subliminal, tacit blame was being cleverly laid upon her and her being ‘really, really into guns’ with the obligatory peppering of ‘really nice lady’ punctuated suspiciously by ‘really high strung’.

Far too many loaded/trigger phrases thrown about for my liking.

[sorry...bad puns not intended]


6 posted on 12/15/2012 7:33:30 PM PST by Salamander (If animals could speak, mankind would weep.)
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To: Slings and Arrows

Alternate conclusion:

Don’t be a ‘gun nut’ or your children might kill other children with YOUR guns.

That’s the deftly unspoken but subliminal point that was being screamed to me.


7 posted on 12/15/2012 7:35:59 PM PST by Salamander (If animals could speak, mankind would weep.)
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To: WilliamIII

Ok, no guns. Does this mean Adam Lanza wouldn’t have rage? So what does he do, he loads his car with explosives and drives it into the school building, or playground.


8 posted on 12/15/2012 7:40:36 PM PST by Toespi
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To: Salamander

Yeah, I know. I was just trying to point out how silly and manipulative the thing was.


9 posted on 12/15/2012 7:41:24 PM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: WilliamIII

I don’t have cable, so didn’t see any tv coverage of the CT massacre until today while waiting at a Jiffy Lube lounge. They had a tv set at CNN. Amazing. The woman behind the CNN studio mic kept saying (in essence) “there is such a disconnect here, they say she’s nice, a member of the close-knit community, etc., but she had all these guns” ... as if the two were mutually exclusive.


10 posted on 12/15/2012 7:43:12 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: WilliamIII

People who really really really love guns also really really really love gun safes to keep them in, away from people who shouldn’t have them, especially psychotic children.

If there’s a lesson here, it’s the get-serious-about-a-gun-safe lesson for all time.


11 posted on 12/15/2012 7:44:13 PM PST by Migraine (Diversity is great; until it happens to YOU.)
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To: Toespi

He would have done something. Last week a nutcase with a long arrest record pushed a man under a subway train in New York; the week before, a psychotic young man killed his mother and then his father with a crossbow - his father was a college professor teaching a class, and the killer had brought more arrows and knives, intending to kill the students - but his father fought back, with an arrow sticking out of his head, and gave the students enough time to escape before he died.

Psychotic is psychotic, and if they don’t kill one way, they’ll kill another. Hospitalize them permanently. It’s better for us - and even better for them.


12 posted on 12/15/2012 7:54:18 PM PST by livius
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To: WilliamIII

I was reading an interview with one of Adam Lanza’s high school advisors, and he said the thought was that Lanza may have suffered from Asperger’s..Wonder if he was ever diagnosed as such?

I love guns, but sure wouldln’t be giving firearms training to my child if he suffered from asperger’s or autism.


13 posted on 12/15/2012 7:57:14 PM PST by sockmonkey (Of Course I didn't read the article. After all, this is FreeRepublic..)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I think they want to Clowen-Piven us to disaster. Then we’ll come out with guns blazing. Then they will get rid of the guns.


14 posted on 12/15/2012 7:57:29 PM PST by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: Migraine; All

“People who really really really love guns also really really really love gun safes to keep them in, away from people who shouldn’t have them, especially psychotic children....If there’s a lesson here, it’s the get-serious-about-a-gun-safe lesson for all time.”

While I recommend gun safes to protect firearms from theft and to protect your underage children from access. I would NEVER require them. It is just BS to bring about gun control by a backdoor methodology. Next comes “inspections” of your home to be sure the firearms are “secured.”

No...what you are preaching is left wing dogma hidden by what sounds like good intent...but leads to more government intrusion into private ownership. It is NOT a conservative position.

It is WAY TOO early to be discussing ANYTHING remotely about restrictions or controls on firearms. The focus needs to be solely on the loss of life....the mechanism of the loss is actually irrelevant at this point.


15 posted on 12/15/2012 8:08:06 PM PST by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: Toespi

I have heard of dousings with kerosene. For instance take the wedding party in Puerto Rico where, 14 people sat down for an early New Year’s dinner. Suddenly, Justino Sanchez Diaz, 45, came into the room with a 20-pound container of propane gas and doused them with kerosene. Five people died from their burns and others suffered major burns.

Question: Are they going to take kerosene away from us to protect society from possible arsonist killers?


16 posted on 12/15/2012 8:13:40 PM PST by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: Salamander

All you have to do to know that it is a hit piece is to look at the source, the NY Slimes.


17 posted on 12/15/2012 8:14:13 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Why is the government more concerned about protecting a microbe on Mars than an unborn baby here?)
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To: jonrick46

The same day, some wacko in China went into a school and stabbed 22 kids. Is China talking about banning knives? I doubt it.


18 posted on 12/15/2012 8:23:56 PM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: WilliamIII

Too bad she didn’t use her guns to protect herself from her son.


19 posted on 12/15/2012 8:26:50 PM PST by funfan
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To: jonrick46

Don’t forget the Happy Land nightclub fire. Killed 87 with 1 gallon of gasoline.


20 posted on 12/15/2012 8:30:24 PM PST by wrench
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To: WilliamIII

CBS said earlier that she had the guns because she feared she needed protection from the coming economic collapse. IOW, she’s a prepper so that gives them all the more reason to spin this.


21 posted on 12/15/2012 8:31:56 PM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: wrench

God,I had forgotten about that fire.

Awful!

.


22 posted on 12/15/2012 8:33:20 PM PST by Mears
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To: wrench

These are all good examples. bump.


23 posted on 12/15/2012 8:36:40 PM PST by CommieCutter
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To: ClearCase_guy

Ping, Ping, Ping.


24 posted on 12/15/2012 8:38:23 PM PST by Doc91678 (Doc91678)
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To: WilliamIII

The article mentions the bar, her friends at the bar, her conversations at the bar, her love of craft beer, presumably at the bar and at home....could be this woman had a DRINKING PROBLEM. Alcoholics can be very cruel to their children. This really needs to be investigated.


25 posted on 12/15/2012 8:55:21 PM PST by Veto! (Opinions freely dispensed as advice)
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To: WilliamIII

Mailonline says she was a ‘doomsday hoarder’ and that her house was a fortress filled with food, supplies and guns.


26 posted on 12/15/2012 8:57:16 PM PST by patriot08 (NATIVE TEXAN (girl type))
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To: patriot08
48 Hours tonight interviewed the sister in law, who said Nancy "feared what would happen when the economy collapses" and that she was preparing for that. Breathless interviewer said, "So you mean she was a survivalist, like a prepper?" "Yes, she was a prepper."

So there you have it. They will get this done if it's the last thing they do. Nancy may as well have gone and shot the children herself.

BTW, they also mentioned that she was shot in the face while she was asleep.

ANd they cannot find a connecction between the mother and the school (apparently the earlier reports were wrong). Now they are saying the shooter had attended the school as a child. So my next question is... did something happen to him at that school?

27 posted on 12/15/2012 9:11:25 PM PST by ponygirl (Be Breitbart.)
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To: Veto!
Why should we “presume” her love for craft beer makes her an alcoholic?

Why should we “presume” anything about her “being in bars a lot”?

All summer long I’m in bars a nearly unbearable amount of time yet I don’t drink.

Bikers like to talk to each other and if we congregate in sizable numbers at the local McDonalds, people get really nervous, ergo, we gravitate to bars.

Should we “presume” she was a raging drunken gun nut prepper who abused her son?

[did I miss any liberal talking points?]

28 posted on 12/15/2012 9:11:52 PM PST by Salamander (If animals could speak, mankind would weep.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Yeah.

And an especially insidious one, at that.


29 posted on 12/15/2012 9:13:28 PM PST by Salamander (If animals could speak, mankind would weep.)
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To: Slings and Arrows

I know.

I’m just sick of ‘gun nuts’ being the sin-bearers of the world.


30 posted on 12/15/2012 9:15:00 PM PST by Salamander (If animals could speak, mankind would weep.)
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To: Salamander

You and me both.

The statists control the terms of the debate. That has to change.


31 posted on 12/15/2012 10:11:00 PM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: Slings and Arrows

It’s already being implied his mom was a ‘right winger’.

If it comes out he was a flaming, crazy liberal, will all of this suddenly become a non-issue?


32 posted on 12/15/2012 10:20:09 PM PST by Salamander (If animals could speak, mankind would weep.)
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To: Salamander
If it comes out he was a flaming, crazy liberal, will all of this suddenly become a non-issue?

Down the memory hole.

33 posted on 12/15/2012 11:10:11 PM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: Veto!
Alcoholics can be very cruel to their children. This really needs to be investigated.

I don't know if this woman had a drinking problem, but I am positive she had issues that were skillfully kept hidden. She knew how to put up a good front, but she wasn't normal.

As the daughter of someone with borderline personality disorder, I remember all too well my mother's sudden rages and vicious remarks. She would lose herself and even get violent. Yet she always put on a kind and cheerful face to the world. No one could believe otherwise -- except my father's friends, many of whom were doctors and therapists. They suspected something was wrong. Unfortunately it wasn't till after her death that the truth about her was acknowledged.

Most likely this woman dominated her son, used him as pal and confidante, or pushed him too hard. He had finally reached his breaking point.

People complain about absent fathers, but that's only one half of the equation. What about neurotic mothers?

34 posted on 12/15/2012 11:10:30 PM PST by MoochPooch (I'm a compassionate cynic.)
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To: Veto!

Are you serious? Give any consideration to the apparently absent father?


35 posted on 12/15/2012 11:21:58 PM PST by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: Slings and Arrows

Probably ought to start the countdown to the vanishing, then.

[or the cover up hitting high gear]


36 posted on 12/15/2012 11:36:24 PM PST by Salamander (If animals could speak, mankind would weep.)
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To: MoochPooch

So, we were separated at birth? Because you’ve described my mother to a T. I always said it was like living with a violent drunk - except age didn’t drink. The rages came out of nowhere.


37 posted on 12/15/2012 11:41:45 PM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Sola Veritas
No...what you are preaching is left wing dogma hidden by what sounds like good intent...but leads to more government intrusion into private ownership. It is NOT a conservative position.

I noticed you jumped at the chance to presume that I was an advocate of requiring people to have a gun safe, and to accuse me of preaching leftwing dogma. I said nothing about requiring anything. I spoke up about making an assessment of your own household with respect to your guns and who might conceivably get possession of them.

It's the same with dangerous medications or dangerous dogs. If you have them, make sure they're secure from every imaginable contingency.

I think your ministry of correction must be in overdrive today. You don't know me; yet you took it upon yourself to burn a bridge between us. You at least ought to have been able to ascertain that I've been on this forum since it came into existence. Leftwing dogma? Good grief. Give your ministry of correction and strident orthodoxy a rest.

38 posted on 12/16/2012 3:28:57 AM PST by Migraine (Diversity is great; until it happens to YOU.)
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To: MoochPooch

I would suspect that this mother was simply overprotective and unrealistic. She took him out of school because she didn’t like what the school suggested for him (obviously, they thought he had problems and needed treatment) and “home-schooled” him, which essentially means protected him and enabled him to morph into something even worse without any possibility of outside intervention.

One article mentioned that he hadn’t seen his father or older brother since 2010, although she apparently stayed in touch with them. And her friends knew that she had a child with “problems,” but apparently most of them had never met him or seen him either. So I’d say that her problem was probably that she was way too accomodating and protective and refused to admit the reality of his condition, something that is not uncommon with mothers of the mentally ill.

I’d bet you’d find that’s what led to her divorce too.

I have known two women like this, both very nice people, but with mentally ill sons whom they protected and the reality of whose illnesses they refused to admit. One of the sons, a manic-depressive, finally did kill himself, and I don’t know what happened to the other because I lost track of the family. Both of the sons were alienated from their fathers and in one case the mother was considering divorce (until her son killed himself). And incidentally, in both cases, the disturbed sons hated their mothers for all their efforts, so it’s not surprising that he shot his mother first. Mothers like that get drawn into the sickness and essentially become co-dependent in it and, as a result, are actually hated by the children they think they are protecting.


39 posted on 12/16/2012 6:44:40 AM PST by livius
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To: jonrick46

So we screw their plans by not coming out with guns blazing, but rather with low-intensity insurgency tactics.

Majority of libs live in cities and cities have weaknesses.


40 posted on 12/16/2012 7:43:11 AM PST by txnativegop (Fed up with zealots)
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To: Migraine

“Leftwing dogma? Good grief. Give your ministry of correction and strident orthodoxy a rest.”

It is “leftwing” dogma whether you are wise enough to realize it or not. I have seen this before. Also, it DOES NOT MATTER that you said nothing about “requiring them.” Some fool will jump on what you wrote and extrapolate it to a “requirement” because of it being “prudent.”

Look...I am not in disagreement with you on being careful to take safety precautions. It is just part of being a responsible citizen. However, it just is not the right time to mention it because it is seen as a window of opportunity by gun grabbers.


41 posted on 12/16/2012 8:37:59 AM PST by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: MoochPooch

Yes, clearly a troubled mother-son relationship. I think shooting her in the face until she was unrecognizable speaks very loudly to that.
And who knows what else drove this young man over the brink of total lunacy. Medications?


42 posted on 12/16/2012 2:46:28 PM PST by Veto! (Opinions freely dispensed as advice)
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