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The Sandy Hook Murders: What To Do?
PowerLine ^ | 15 December 2012 | John Hinderaker

Posted on 12/16/2012 1:17:28 AM PST by zeestephen

If we are going to take mass shootings as an occasion to infringe constitutional rights, the most effective place to start would be the FIRST Amendment [Freedom of the Press].

(Excerpt) Read more at powerlineblog.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: guncontrol; guns; sandyhook; sandyhookgundefense; sandyhookgungraphic; sandyhookisrael; sandyhookshooting; secondamendment
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John Hinderaker:

"Within the realm of constitutional options, the most practical remedy I can think of would be to require that a certain number of teachers or administrators in each school be trained in the use of firearms and armed at all times."

1 posted on 12/16/2012 1:17:36 AM PST by zeestephen
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To: zeestephen
An elementary school in Israel.
2 posted on 12/16/2012 1:20:04 AM PST by zeestephen
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To: zeestephen

While I agree that the news coverage of these horrors doesn’t really help to prevent other twisted people from being inspired to copycat...
It’s still a reactive fix.
I want a more proactive fix:

Arm more good guys.


3 posted on 12/16/2012 1:50:52 AM PST by RandallFlagg ("Liberalism is about as progressive as CANCER" -Alfonzo Rachel)
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To: zeestephen
Why are so many Israeli women hotter than Bessemer furnace?
4 posted on 12/16/2012 1:53:17 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: zeestephen

I think what the liberals overlook is *why* people want to own guns and *why* so many are ardent supporters of the 2nd amendment.

They don’t trust government. Maybe that’s a start. Why don’t people trust government.


5 posted on 12/16/2012 2:02:41 AM PST by Usagi_yo
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Why are so many Israeli women hotter than Bessemer furnace?

Man! Yer not kidding!
I'm hypothesizing that carrying all that firepower keeps their bodies in trim shape.
Modified aerobics.
Think, "ARMEDrobics."
6 posted on 12/16/2012 2:10:41 AM PST by RandallFlagg ("Liberalism is about as progressive as CANCER" -Alfonzo Rachel)
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To: zeestephen

My first instinct is to intitiate the most thorough investigation of psychotropic drugs in history. The suicide rates in the military and every one of these insane shootings have these drugs in some way connected to them.
They suppress the brain’s natural inhibitions, shut off the conscience, and allow those taking them to act out their anger without any feeling of guilt or remorse. They depress normal emotions and magnify anger with no protection as a buffer to stop them from letting their rage explode into absolute madness. They treat normal emotions as abnormal, medicate them, and never ever get to the reasons for those feelings. Rather they suppress them and treat the symptoms instead of the problems which only causes worse problems.
There are intermediate bouts of rage and finally an overload.
Psychiatry and psychology are guilty of malfeasance and should never be in charge of deciding what constitutes ‘mental illness’.


7 posted on 12/16/2012 2:24:03 AM PST by MestaMachine (It's the !!!!TREASON!!!!, stupid!)
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To: zeestephen
I've read headlines describing the shooter as a goth, mentally disturbed, autistic, violent loner who posted threats on-line. This sounds similar to the description of the pink haired Batman movie shooter. I suggest instead of banning firearms we focus on banning goth, mentally disturbed, autistic, violent loner types who post on-line rants about killing people.
8 posted on 12/16/2012 2:25:06 AM PST by Casie (Chuck Norris 2016)
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To: MestaMachine
The suicide rates in the military

The rates in the military are lower than comparable general populations. If you wanted to be precise about it, you could refer to the rise in military suicide rates, but you would have to adjust for other factors besides the psychotropic drug factor.

9 posted on 12/16/2012 2:31:19 AM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: Usagi_yo

I think another FReeper posted a few weeks ago, “I don’t trust a Government that doesn’t trust me”.

I think that says it all and it may end up being a Bumper Sticker on my car in the near future.


10 posted on 12/16/2012 2:33:50 AM PST by Kickass Conservative (They Live, and we're the only ones wearing the Sunglasses...)
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To: Casie
banning goth, mentally disturbed, autistic, violent loner types

We should hold their enablers responsible. The mother in this case even though she is dead. In Aurora it was the college professor shrink whose role was quickly hushed up after she ignored the written and verbal threats. At VA Tech it was the parents who shipped their kid to college instead of treatment.

11 posted on 12/16/2012 2:36:32 AM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: RandallFlagg

Maybe it’s because Israel is really not wealthy on anything but brain power, and its citizens do not live for stuffing their faces.


12 posted on 12/16/2012 2:42:42 AM PST by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Vendetta))
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To: zeestephen

My prayer is that some school administrators and school parents have seen the threat and taken the actions which will protect the students not based on what has already taken place but actions which were put in place many years ago with armed, numerous armed, teachers and parents or grandparent going in and out on a rotating basis, all under the radar. If not, and the trend of attacking schools continues, there is no chance without having armed people in place to give the innocent a chance. A prayer common sense measures are in place in a whole host of local and there are those at the ready if the necessity should arise.


13 posted on 12/16/2012 2:45:24 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: palmer

40 years ago, many of these mass murderers would have been routinely institutionalized BEFORE they became a threat.


14 posted on 12/16/2012 2:54:29 AM PST by zeestephen
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To: zeestephen

Yes, there is ample evidence that the families are afraid of these children. They would like someone else to take over, but there are no more institutions to do so. So the kids fail to find a job, sit around and obsess, and practice shooting, and the parents go along with it.


15 posted on 12/16/2012 2:59:52 AM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: no-to-illegals

I hope we address the mental health angle as well as guns. And we should loudly turn the argument back on Hollywood and the video makers for the violence in films and games. Please don’t let the libs control the discussion and make it ONLY be about guns.


16 posted on 12/16/2012 3:02:26 AM PST by IM2MAD (IM2MAD=Individual Motivated 2 Make A Difference)
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To: palmer

I did not realize there were complete and total failures to intercept the violence in several of these cases. It just makes it even more insulting when liberals blame gun ownership while there are actual culpable individuals involved right in front of their faces. What an infuriating time we live in!


17 posted on 12/16/2012 3:05:27 AM PST by Casie (Chuck Norris 2016)
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To: zeestephen

Is that some kind of old .30 carbine?


18 posted on 12/16/2012 3:08:21 AM PST by MachIV
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

rifles are sexy?


19 posted on 12/16/2012 3:10:28 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Casie

There are no easy answers, but the breakdown of civil society has resulted in people shirking their responsibilities in all sorts of ways. Another is people’s failure to live up to second amendment responsibilities. I have failed too but have started to fix that.


20 posted on 12/16/2012 3:12:28 AM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: Hardraade

Ah, you should ask our sister Eleutheria about that. She got donated a lush banquet a few weeks ago. I’m Christian, but I have to give modern Judaism kudos for its cooking.


21 posted on 12/16/2012 3:13:11 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: RandallFlagg

At least arm the principal. There should be stun guns available too. Actually maybe all schools should have one or two paid armed guards. If that shooter was breaking into the school, the armed guards would have shot him before he hurt anyone else.
As I retired teacher, I think a stun gun locked in a file cabinet might have kept the shooter away from my students. Gun control only disarms the law abiding people. How about banning violent video games. Children imitate what they see.
The more criminals who are immediately killed the less copy cats will arise. All the publicity is just priming the next crazy killer for his day of fame. I blame the news media for this too.


22 posted on 12/16/2012 3:14:58 AM PST by upstatenyrepublican
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

You got a crush on teacher, you got a crush on teacher....


23 posted on 12/16/2012 3:14:58 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: IM2MAD
I understand your point but every-time one of these types of mass murder takes place the liberals and the lame-stream drive bys put gun owners on defense. Each of us knows the liberals and drive bys have no interest in having an actual discussion, therefore (imho) this matter must be handled at the local levels, and pushed past the liberals and drive bys at the local levels. A national debate is useless. Liberals and the drive bys will continue with their lies and box up anyone with the truth of what is necessary to give the innocent a fighting chance. The debate has to be at the local level and actions taken must be actions at the local level. Bulldoze over the liberals at the local level. The map from the past election says the local level is overwhelmingly filled with red or common sense. If the blue areas of the map from the past election do not want to protect their children, it will be their decision. Work from the local level to obtain the protection (imho).
24 posted on 12/16/2012 3:17:11 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: MachIV

Looks like it. I’ve never seen that sort of split stock, though.

The wood cover over the barrel at the front of the receiver looks like military issue. I have a WWII Saginaw that looks almost identical.


25 posted on 12/16/2012 3:20:39 AM PST by djf (Conservative values help the poor. Liberal values help them STAY poor!!!)
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To: upstatenyrepublican
Actually maybe all schools should have one or two paid armed guards.

They wouldn't have to pay me to do it. I'm going to go ask to volunteer on my days off at the elementary school down the street Monday morning.
They'll likely say, "No," but I'm still going to offer.
26 posted on 12/16/2012 3:21:12 AM PST by RandallFlagg ("Liberalism is about as progressive as CANCER" -Alfonzo Rachel)
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To: MachIV

Looks like an ag3 or one of the Israeli equivalents.


27 posted on 12/16/2012 3:22:24 AM PST by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Vendetta))
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To: Kickass Conservative

Or, I won’t trust a politician with my vote if he doesn’t trust me with my gun!


28 posted on 12/16/2012 3:24:12 AM PST by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: MestaMachine

Yes, psychotropic drugs and their side effects are a huge problem. But also, we should in no way give access to guns to the autistic, mentally challenged, or felons. In addition, you ever committ a crime with a gun - you’re toast. Put away for a minimum of at least 25 years with no parole.


29 posted on 12/16/2012 3:26:51 AM PST by ransacked
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To: upstatenyrepublican

The journalists know their 24/7 coverage will fuel the next shooting which is why they do it. Like I sai the other day, they had no problem ignoring Benghazi when it suited them.


30 posted on 12/16/2012 3:28:04 AM PST by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: MachIV

Yep. M! carbine.


31 posted on 12/16/2012 3:28:21 AM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: ransacked

Watch what you ask for, as so many “crimes with guns” are paper offenses, not actions by which anybody had been threatened with harm let alone harmed.


32 posted on 12/16/2012 3:31:19 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: MachIV

Looks like it.


33 posted on 12/16/2012 3:31:53 AM PST by MrNeutron1962
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To: wtc911

One of my favorite rifles.

They’re just fun, y’know!

Used to be alot cheaper to shoot, though.


34 posted on 12/16/2012 3:32:37 AM PST by djf (Conservative values help the poor. Liberal values help them STAY poor!!!)
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To: zeestephen

Actually what we need is immediate and drastic... politician control. Thorough background checks, a five day waiting period before they can spout off their stupid mouths, and a three comment magazine limit.


35 posted on 12/16/2012 3:32:52 AM PST by SpaceBar
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To: djf

Agree — a classic. I see one or two every so often out at the range....just looks like fun. They used to advertise them in the back of American Rifleman for some absurdly low number (1960s). My mom wouldn’t let me get one.


36 posted on 12/16/2012 3:38:42 AM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: upstatenyrepublican
As I retired teacher, I think a stun gun locked in a file cabinet might have kept the shooter away from my students.

While your idea is sound, the gun should be kept on-body. How long does it take to find the key and get to the file cabinet? What if the shooter is between you and the file cabinet? On-body carry, done correctly (namely, a retention strap-I think that's what it's called-I don't use one) would be the way to go.

Also, a stun gun requires a closer proximity than a pistol. Thinking from the bad guy's head "Oh, stun gun. First target chosen" as opposed to "holy crap, Batman, that teacher's got a gun!"

37 posted on 12/16/2012 3:42:44 AM PST by blu
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To: wtc911
Images of American Rifleman ads from 1965.

chttp://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=98981

Unbelievable prices - through the mail - no background check.

38 posted on 12/16/2012 3:46:37 AM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: wtc911

One of my .22’s has J. C. Penney stamped into the barrel, from back when you could walk into the store and buy one...

Think that Marlin went for about $29.99 at the time.


39 posted on 12/16/2012 3:54:01 AM PST by djf (Conservative values help the poor. Liberal values help them STAY poor!!!)
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To: ransacked
But also, we should in no way give access to guns to the autistic, mentally challenged, or felons.

Access wasn't given, it was taken over his mom's dead body. Maybe she said that once too often...

Regardless, one cannot rely on being able to keep arms out of the hands of the criminally bent nor the insane. Only an active defense will stop this sort of attack (or the shooter runs out of ammo/targets). If the defense succeeds in ramping up the probability that the attack will be completely unsuccessful, these people will find another way and place to express their problems.

40 posted on 12/16/2012 4:13:08 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: MachIV

yes it is a 30 carbine.


41 posted on 12/16/2012 4:26:45 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: zeestephen

In Israel, the parents must volunteer every so often and takes turns guarding their child’s school - armed with UZI’s and do perimeter patrols so the free loving Palestinians don’t commit acts of terror on what otherwise would be a “soft” target.

I think we have enough former-retired military personnel - retired police officers - and other “qualified” parents in each school district that can cover this.

You have a concealed carry permit - legally own your handgun - get some police firearms training from one of the local LE instructors for liability - and post them in the school. The only purpose of these people: Stop an Active Shooter.

May never happen in your school - but once it is hardened by experieced personnel - they will go somewhere else.

2nd Requirement: (and most of you won’t like this) Police Departments are going to have to profile and come up with a list of wacko’s that may pose a threat - basic human intelligence requirement - may not ID the actual threat - but the list may serve as a early warning indicator.

Just saying from an experience Anti-Terrorism Officer with 4 tours in Iraq and qualified MP Captain - who also served with Blackwater and still in the Intelligence community fighting global terrorists...


42 posted on 12/16/2012 4:29:43 AM PST by BCW (http://babylonscovertwar.com/index.html)
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To: zeestephen

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2969231/posts


43 posted on 12/16/2012 4:41:03 AM PST by expat1000
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To: MestaMachine
My first instinct is to intitiate the most thorough investigation of psychotropic drugs in history. The suicide rates in the military and every one of these insane shootings have these drugs in some way connected to them.
They suppress the brain’s natural inhibitions, shut off the conscience, and allow those taking them to act out their anger without any feeling of guilt or remorse. They depress normal emotions and magnify anger with no protection as a buffer to stop them from letting their rage explode into absolute madness. They treat normal emotions as abnormal, medicate them, and never ever get to the reasons for those feelings. Rather they suppress them and treat the symptoms instead of the problems which only causes worse problems.
There are intermediate bouts of rage and finally an overload.
Psychiatry and psychology are guilty of malfeasance and should never be in charge of deciding what constitutes ‘mental illness’.

I agree 100% with what you said, plus this:

SSRI type drugs make people highly susceptible to hypnotic suggestion.

Drug them up; wind them up with suggestive counseling; aim them at soft targets; turn them loose with one trigger word, or sound, or image.

44 posted on 12/16/2012 4:42:00 AM PST by meadsjn
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To: zeestephen

Are there any good links about the 60’s effort to remove these institutions?


45 posted on 12/16/2012 4:53:46 AM PST by CommieCutter
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To: Casie

The adopted son of a local lawyer was allowed by his mother to keep knives and chainsaws in his room. He was 17. Because of his violent and anti-socia behavior he was being visited regularly in the home by a social worker. I’m not going to describe the tragedy that ensued but - he also was goth. He’s now serving life in prison but since he was a minor and the supremes just spoke on that, I expect he’ll get out soon.


46 posted on 12/16/2012 5:06:19 AM PST by Mercat (Adventures make you late for dinner. Bilbo Baggins)
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To: zeestephen
Keeping the names & details of mass shootings out of the media MIGHT(?) discourage some shooters, but would serve terrorists & criminals well.

Recall that some people regard the shooter Nidal Hasan as insane rather than a terrorist. I don't doubt Hasan is insane, as you have to be mentally disturbed to be a muslim; but, that does not refute his terrorist activities & sympathies.

Such a restriction on the media would require they evaluate every murder to determine if it might be the acts of a criminal, a terrorist, or an insane person. The media is not qualified to make such a determination. Their job, as poorly as they do it now, would be immeasurably harder & prone to frequent error.

Fleeing shooters would benefit from not having their picture immediately on the news, aiding their getaway.

Would the survivors, family, & others involved be silenced? Not likely or enforceable. The Net would reveal all the info the media is prohibited from reporting before restrictive authorities could react.

This idea is as unworkable as it is unconstitutional. And what parent would choose to remain ignorant when such an atrocity has occurred nearby?

Arm the school staff and/or provide armed, capable security guards. This is the only way lives may be saved.

47 posted on 12/16/2012 5:16:41 AM PST by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: MestaMachine

Psychiatry and psychology are guilty of malfeasance and should never be in charge of deciding what constitutes ‘mental illness’.

It’s too easy find “experts” in these inexact sciences. Most are just glorified amateurs who’d have no qualms in scrutinizing the wrong people out of the need to err on the side of caution.


48 posted on 12/16/2012 5:18:41 AM PST by equaviator (There's nothing like the universe to bring you down to earth.)
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To: upstatenyrepublican
"As I retired teacher, I think a stun gun locked in a file cabinet might have kept the shooter away from my students. "

From what I can tell, pepper spray is completely legal in Connecticut. No match for a handgun, but better than lying down and waiting to be shot.

I'm wondering what the homicide total for liberal cities like Detroit, Chicago and Philadelphia was for this weekend. I doubt we'll hear, because it's not news, it's just a typical weekend.

49 posted on 12/16/2012 5:24:23 AM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Is it the .30 that catches your eye, the pair of 36s, or all three?


50 posted on 12/16/2012 5:27:12 AM PST by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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