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Nancy Lanza feared son, Adam, was ‘getting worse’; ‘he was burning himself with a lighter’
NY Daily News ^ | 12/16/12 | MATTHEW LYSIAK AND STEPHEN REX BROWN

Posted on 12/16/2012 12:53:37 PM PST by jimbo123

Less than a week before her son would launch his horrifying attack on Sandy Hook Elementary School, gun-loving mom Nancy Lanza knew "she was losing him" and that "he was getting worse."

-snip-

Adam, who the coroner's office said Sunday shot Nancy Lanza, 54, several times in the head before unleashing a nightmarish attack that killed 20 schoolchildren and six others Friday, was prone to hurting himself, the drinking buddy said.

"Nancy told me he was burning himself with a lighter. In the ankles or arms or something," he recalled of a conversation they had about a year ago. "It was like he was trying to feel something."

(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: adamlanza; adamlanzabio; nancylanza; sandyhook; sandyhookmother; sandyhookshooting
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To: livius

http://www.mindlink.org/rights.html ~ handbook written about CT rules regarding rights of the mentally ill. This is what she was up against. BTW, your point about his mother being the first one he killed is probably under investigation as we write each other. Bet he’s scragged some others!


51 posted on 12/16/2012 1:49:47 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: RitaOK

“THAT story out of China must enrage the American Left & and their msm arm of the Marxist Party.”

Are any public figures talking about? A school is a soft target -a gun isn’t necessary to do harm, but it sure might stop it.


52 posted on 12/16/2012 1:50:52 PM PST by greatvikingone
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To: jimbo123

“gun-loving mom” , “blast them from the sky”.

A little bit of an agenda here?


53 posted on 12/16/2012 1:52:11 PM PST by Chickensoup (Leftist Totalitarian Fascism coming to a country like yours.)
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To: smoothsailing
"gun-loving mom" "drinking buddy" "bar pal"

What kind of BS journalism is that?

New York Daily News, what a crap rag.

Sort of yes and sort of no. The New York Daily News isn't much of a newspaper, though my impression is it's a slightly less flagrantly propaganda-driven operation than the Times of that same city.

Interviews with the killer's mother's drinking friends aren't likely to produce the definitive answers most of us want, but they're better than nothing, and may well lead to worthier sources.

In purely journalistic terms, this is a huge story, and there's an enormous demand for facts right this minute. Standard journalistic practice has always been to send out as many reporters as can be rousted out of low budget bars, and order them to dig fast and dig deep and bring back everything they can get their hands on. Editors, in the ensuing few days, used to toss the accumulated facts and impressions and reminescences and guesses and more facts and hunches on the table, sort through them, and make the best possible sense of the story as a whole.

There are a couple problems with that method:

1.) News consumers are in a red hot television-paced hurry these days. This is understandable, though it doesn't encourage intelligent, comprehensive, realistic journalism. The need for speed has trumped accuracy.

2.) This story has had a prodigiously large political cast from the moment the killer pulled the first trigger the first time, and "that changes everything," to coin a phrase. If it need be said, the failed main stream "news" media had their so-called "minds" made up from the outset this would be their golden opportunity to help President You Didn't Build That and the Democratic [sic] party give those knuckle-dragging Neanderthal NRA goons a hard slap across the face and agitate for more so-called "gun control." Whatever advances the "progressive" so-called "narrative" is all to the good; whatever stands in its way either isn't reported at all, or deliberately covered up with leftist extremist lies. Those have been the methods all along with the Fast & Furious fiasco: first don't report it, then try to hide it. If you expect the worst of socialists, you'll rarely be disappointed.

Very little time to gather facts plus "progressive" hatred of ordinary Americans and American civil rights adds up to a journalistic disaster. It's by no means the first such disaster, to be sure, though I have no doubt historians will point out in due time this was one of the larger and more egregious.

Fortunately for real Americans, there isn't a shortage of genuine, old-fashioned journalists who are ready, willing, and able to do everything newspaper reporters used to do. Most genuine journalists' stories show up on the internet these days rather than paper. They're gathering facts this very minute. They're looking over the material that's showing up in newspaper and television accounts, much of it blatantly hate-driven, of course. They're working on drawing the connections and sussing their way through the "narratives" the dinosaur "news" media saturate with totalitarian bias. Authentic journalists with old-fashioned integrity are on the job. We'll presently see a much more comprehensive, truthful, and intelligent story.

I predict some of what the Daily News has generated will show up in authentic news stories in another few days.

54 posted on 12/16/2012 1:52:47 PM PST by Standing Wolf
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To: smoothsailing
What kind of BS journalism is that?

Also, they went from the bar conversation being a year ago to a week ago. So, when was it that he was burning himself to feel something? A long time ago which may or may not have ended or was this a recent thing which can be another piece of the puzzle?

55 posted on 12/16/2012 1:54:27 PM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: Red_Devil 232

Sounds like that was the drinking buddy’s assessment of why Adam would burn himself. But if it is like the probably of ‘cutting’, it would more likely have been done as a diversion from greater mental anguish.


56 posted on 12/16/2012 1:55:11 PM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: aft_lizard

Not in Connecticut anyways. In many states you can probate them into the custody of a mhc facility for treatment if you can prove that he is a danger to himself or others.
___________________

And the family had to hire the attorney to prosecute the case, and immediate danger is the operative word.


57 posted on 12/16/2012 1:55:11 PM PST by Chickensoup (Leftist Totalitarian Fascism coming to a country like yours.)
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To: txnativegop; hinckley buzzard

I’m not willing to allow someone to decide who is a danger prior to them committing an offense. That allows for someone like the pResident who now is leaning towards labeling conservatives terrorists. Commitment on someone’s word is dangerous and shouldn’t be allowed. Focusing on that as the cause for this tragedy is like what the libs are doing looking at everything but the society they have built by their liberal ideologies.


58 posted on 12/16/2012 1:57:20 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Parmy

I’m still wondering why they never institutionalized Jerry...


59 posted on 12/16/2012 1:57:43 PM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: jimbo123
Certainly, lets see how far down we can drag the mother:

A drinking buddy of Lanza

the bar pal, who did not wish to be named

... the drinking buddy said.

the conversation last week over craft beers

The anonymous pal remembered ...She "was a country girl" who loved to hunt with a falcon that would scare game she'd blast out of the sky.

Sorry but after the last comment of this apparent drunk who wishes to remain anonymous, I'm not buying any of this report..........

I've looked into falconry and the sport is the most highly regulated endeavor in the United States. You just don't go out and buy a falcon or other raptor to house as a pet or hunting companion........

60 posted on 12/16/2012 1:57:48 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: Parmy

Loonie bins are expensive as hell. We’d have to take on another $ trillion per year of debt to try to control all these animals.


61 posted on 12/16/2012 1:58:17 PM PST by Monty22002
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To: CynicalBear

“I’m not willing to allow someone to decide who is a danger prior to them committing an offense.”

There are some conditions that are well enough understood that with a diagnosis and family description of behavior should be sufficient for commitment.


62 posted on 12/16/2012 2:02:07 PM PST by greatvikingone
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To: beethovenfan
Knowing her son was mentally ill, why would she have taught him to shoot, and why were the guns accessible to him?

Why would you accept the word of a barfly named "Anonymous"?

Mr. "Anonymous" is likely the most quoted individual in this entire world............

63 posted on 12/16/2012 2:02:21 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: RitaOK
THAT story out of China must enrage the American Left & and their msm arm of the Marxist Party.

Not really. It's been used to remind us that nobody died in the Chinese knife attack, unlike CT.

64 posted on 12/16/2012 2:03:04 PM PST by Drew68
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To: Monty22002

The money isn’t available—it is needed to build the jails for holding all those opposed to Obama’s agenda (as Harry Belafonte said the other day).


65 posted on 12/16/2012 2:05:09 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: rdl6989
It was over 35 years ago that the courts made it impossible to involuntarily admit a person over 18 to a psychiatric hospital, unless they had actually done somthing potentially fatal to themselves or others. You really are supposed to wait until they hurt somebody.

I was a volunteer at a soup kitchen that had all kinds of borderline people. Oh, the stories I could tell. But you couldn't have them committed. The police would pick up women who were raving bonkers, and bring them over to the overnight shelter run by the (very courageous) Catholic nuns.

66 posted on 12/16/2012 2:07:55 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Let us commend ourselves, and one another, and our whole life, unto Christ Our God.)
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To: beethovenfan
Knowing her son was mentally ill, why would she have taught him to shoot,

The instruction began at an early age, likely long before any evidence of mental illness set in........

But who knows what the real facts are if you're reading MSM reports..........

67 posted on 12/16/2012 2:12:05 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: greatvikingone
>> There are some conditions that are well enough understood that with a diagnosis and family description of behavior should be sufficient for commitment.<<

Not good enough. Allows for too much manipulation. Freedom to freely carry concealed will drastically reduce incidences like this as it has in multiple communities like Kennesaw, Ga and others. Those who still are stupid enough to try something simply get eliminated by those protecting themselves and those around them.

68 posted on 12/16/2012 2:13:38 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: greatvikingone
It is the wrong approach.

It sure is.

69 posted on 12/16/2012 2:13:58 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: jimbo123
I read somewhere today that Adam Lanza had a disorder known as congenital analgesia, or insensitivity to pain. I either saw a television show or read something this year where an individual had this but I can't recall any more about it. I guess Adam Lanza was burning himself in order to see if he could feel the pain.

Here's a link to a recent story in The New York Times about a 13-year-old girl with the same problem. It must be awful for everyone, really. Ashlyn Blocker, the Girl Who Feels No Pain

70 posted on 12/16/2012 2:14:36 PM PST by arasina (Communism is EVIL. So there.)
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To: jimbo123

A lot of single moms surrender to their boys and just hope for the best. They are the ones who get mad when some homeowner kills them during a break-in instead of trying to wound them.

I guarantee he threatened her more than once and she wouldn’t kick him out. She watched him turn into a mass killer and did nothing to stop it.

Virginia Tech did the same thing to Cho. They ignored all the signs. The only person who did anything was Nikki Giovanni and they ignored her.


71 posted on 12/16/2012 2:18:12 PM PST by AppyPappy (You never see a masscre at a gun show.)
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To: buwaya
"Back in the day, and in many other countries today, that behavior would have gotten him sent to the loony bin."

You had better be careful over what you wish for. There is a money incentive by those who would financially benefit from the increased institutionalization of mentally impaired human beings. People will be picked up at the drop of a hat. Parents would lose their kids because some nitwit determines they do not like the way the kid talks. Or, how they look. Suppose you saw this man in the check-out stand. Would you put a call in to 911?

Or this girl?

Twelve-year-old Brianna Moore, who was expelled from school for her pinkish hair.

If you did, hold on to your house and bank account. If the school district did, the sky is the limit.

The lawyers are rubbing their hands together at the prospect of this cash cow.

72 posted on 12/16/2012 2:21:01 PM PST by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: Standing Wolf
I repeat, the New York Daily News, what a crap rag.

BTW, I enjoyed reading your cogent missive.

73 posted on 12/16/2012 2:25:01 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: AppyPappy

I guarantee he threatened her more than once and she wouldn’t kick him out. She watched him turn into a mass killer and did nothing to stop it.

Virginia Tech did the same thing to Cho. They ignored all the signs. The only person who did anything was Nikki Giovanni and they ignored her.
___________________________

I respect you immensely but frankly, there is nothing that she could have done. Nothing. The way the laws stand in this country, there is nothing that can be done unless danger is immenent. Nothing.

Whether she was happily married, whether she had all the monies and legal advice in the world, when an psychiatric patient doesnt want treatment, and there is no immenent danger, there is nothing that can be done.

This is not a gun issue,it is not a parenting issues, it is fully an mental health system issue. The lawsuits agains the people who implement such draconian measures to prevent early intervention and custodial care of dangerous people should begin. People with poor judgement who are abusing themselves.


74 posted on 12/16/2012 2:25:20 PM PST by Chickensoup (Leftist Totalitarian Fascism coming to a country like yours.)
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To: arasina

I have Aspergers(very mild) and I have a high threshold of pain. I’ve never taken anything stronger than an Advil. I don’t resist burning myself with a lighter because it hurts, I don’t burn myself with a lighter because I know it is bad for me. I also have no natural sense of empathy or sympathy. I could watch people die all day and it wouldn’t affect me(which came in handy when I worked in EMS in high school).
I’ve been around people like me and it scares me.

My guess is that the Aspergers was combined with paranoid schizophrenia/bipolar and drug use.


75 posted on 12/16/2012 2:30:09 PM PST by AppyPappy (You never see a masscre at a gun show.)
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To: Chickensoup

She could have kicked him out of the house when he threatened her.


76 posted on 12/16/2012 2:32:32 PM PST by AppyPappy (You never see a masscre at a gun show.)
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To: Chode

If someone is willing to kill you, how do you stop them from getting your guns? He could have use an oxyacetylene torch to cut open a safe after he killed her. OTOH, if she left them lying around, then I can see how that would be a problem.


77 posted on 12/16/2012 2:33:15 PM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
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To: Monty22002

Loonie bins are expensive as hell. We’d have to take on another $ trillion per year of debt to try to control all these animals.
_______________________

Long term locked psychiatric facilities are much less expensive than what we do now which is to set them up in some sort of alone or congregant housing which they trash, send people to make sure they take their meds, which patients figure out quickly that they dont, have them in and out of ERs up to 10 times a week, have them half starve in the streets and need medical care, have them the biggest part of any police job, have them with provider teams of up to 10 people with in home supports, have them continue emotionally tortured.


78 posted on 12/16/2012 2:38:33 PM PST by Chickensoup (Leftist Totalitarian Fascism coming to a country like yours.)
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To: jimbo123
"Mom apparently spent a lot of time drinking at a bar."

We will see how much alcohol played into this tragedy--for the shooter, Adam Lanza.

79 posted on 12/16/2012 2:39:04 PM PST by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: AppyPappy

She could have kicked him out of the house when he threatened her.

____________________

My experience is that these parents are frightened. I would guess he may be Aspi and antisocial. Dangerous combo. No lock too strong.


80 posted on 12/16/2012 2:46:45 PM PST by Chickensoup (Leftist Totalitarian Fascism coming to a country like yours.)
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To: Chickensoup

Ignoring it didn’t seem to work too well.


81 posted on 12/16/2012 2:49:20 PM PST by AppyPappy (You never see a masscre at a gun show.)
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To: arasina

I’ve been acquainted in the past with a young teen who hurt himself intentionally. Said it was the only time he felt alive. Only time he really felt anything. He was the nephew of a former girlfriend. She took him in occasionally, since his home life was not very good with her sister. He’d been medicated with Ritalin from an early age. Not aware of anything else, but I wouldn’t be surprised. He was a decent enough kid, very bright, very serious, very quiet, slightly strange but not alarmingly so. Small for his age, verging upon emaciated. I was under the impression that the medication had done it.


82 posted on 12/16/2012 2:51:32 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: Sacajaweau

Some people suffering from depression do self-harm like that. They feel so numb and detached that they cut or burn themselves just to prove that they can still feel *something*, even if it’s pain. They can physically feel pain, there’s nothing wrong with their nerves, it’s their mental state.

}:-)4


83 posted on 12/16/2012 3:21:29 PM PST by Moose4 (...and walk away.)
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To: Red_Devil 232

“I hear a report this morning on FNC that claimed he could not feel pain. It is possible I am wrong but I don’t think so.”

I read something similar today. A kid that played baseball with Adam when they were younger said that they always had to watch out for him, because if he fell and hurt himself, he would feel it or be aware of it.


84 posted on 12/16/2012 3:30:38 PM PST by RedWhiteBlue (Mama tried)
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To: Red_Devil 232

“I hear a report this morning on FNC that claimed he could not feel pain. It is possible I am wrong but I don’t think so.”

I read something similar today. A kid that played baseball with Adam when they were younger said that they always had to watch out for him, because if he fell and hurt himself, he wouldn’t feel it or be aware of it.


85 posted on 12/16/2012 3:30:53 PM PST by RedWhiteBlue (Mama tried)
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To: Chode
if she'd lived, she'd of been sued into oblivion

She will still be sued, dead or alive.

86 posted on 12/16/2012 3:32:08 PM PST by frithguild (You can call me Snippy the Anti-Freeper)
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To: Aria

It’s difficult because children at that age are simply changing physically so fast that even medications can’t keep up with them.

Puberty is a big challenge, because usually it is a few years after that when adolescents have their first big crisis (age 16 or so).

But it seems that the parents you know are plugged into help and maybe things will go well for them. Prayers for this family.


87 posted on 12/16/2012 3:38:50 PM PST by livius
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To: muawiyah

Very interesting. Thank you!


88 posted on 12/16/2012 3:39:41 PM PST by livius
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To: RedWhiteBlue

That is exactly what I heard!


89 posted on 12/16/2012 3:41:15 PM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: gov_bean_ counter

Exactly. It’s happening to one of my family members as I type this. Her parents have NO recourse whatsoever unless their daughter (adult) commits HERSELF. Which will never happen.


90 posted on 12/16/2012 3:43:08 PM PST by bonfire
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To: jimbo123
Nancy Lanza knew "she was losing him" and that "he was getting worse."...decompensating paranoid schizophrenic.....
91 posted on 12/16/2012 3:44:19 PM PST by Intolerant in NJ
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To: jimbo123

That’s the impression the MSM would like to give. I guess she deserved to die. It’s the parents’ fault. The son was just an instrument. What crap.


92 posted on 12/16/2012 3:44:37 PM PST by kabar
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To: jimbo123

There was a feminist putsch against keeping patients in mental hospitals long ago, and it was accompanied by movies showing women trapped in mental institutions at the whims of evil male administrators. As for much of the current consequences being seen, maybe our national whorehouse needs to be cleaned up (moral bankruptcy). Both the mother and son should have been properly evaluated with the whole battery of tests.


93 posted on 12/16/2012 3:46:41 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: jimbo123
Childhood abuse and neglect can result in a cold blooded murderous rage.

The following video documentary is of an adopted girl who had been abused by her birth parents at a very young age... an age at which many might believe she should retain no memory of the abuse. The video is chilling and not safe for work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2-Re_Fl_L4

94 posted on 12/16/2012 3:50:06 PM PST by fso301
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To: greatvikingone
Things could be nipped in the bud while a troubled child is young if there were not so much emphasis on making the mentally ill the “same” as a normal child.

I sort of get what you are trying to say here, but understand this is a very slippery slope. There is a very real danger of branding and profiling for “pre-crimes” anyone who doesn’t quite conform to the social norm or especially those who don’t conform to the prevailing PC culture as being mentally ill or “troubled”.

I recall the case of a kid not long ago of a kid, kindergarten or first grade, who drew a crayon picture of someone with a gun. IIRC his dad was serving in the military and it was supposed to be a picture of his dad of whom he was very proud. This kid had been a good student, had never had been in any trouble before, never exhibited violent tendencies toward anyone. But when the teacher saw it, she freaked out. The police were called, the child taken away in handcuffs and indefinitely suspended, the school system told the mother her son needed psychiatric counseling and couldn’t return to school until he did - all because the kid drew a picture of a gun.

If parents could afford to have their mentally ill children cared for at mental institutions where there was structure, protection, and no pressure for being different, we might have different outcomes from all of these massacres.

What you describe simply does not exist. There are some good private and very expensive psychiatric hospitals, even some dealing with adolescences, but no long term care facilities where such a child would or could be kept indefinitely, such hospitals as you describe only deal with the short term problems and once the patient is stabilized - no longer an immediate threat to themselves or others they are returned to their families.

Most other psychiatric hospitals are not somewhere where you’d want to send a loved one – there is little structure or protection from abuse from fellow patients or even staff. Sadly unless in a very specialized day treatment or part time residential facility dealing with a specific problem like autism or retardation, in a psychiatric hospital, even among many private ones, more often than not those who are difficult to handle and profoundly retarded and those with Autism or non-violent people with borderline personality disorders who are not a danger to others or even some cases those with drug or alcohol problems are housed and placed and kept together with people who are truly psychotic and schizophrenic and truly dangerous.

I’ve seen this first hand with a family member who was diagnosed as being bi-polar who sometimes became manic but never violent and with a good friend who had a drinking problem.

After the breakup of her marriage, my friend relapsed and drank heavily and became very depressed one night and took a bunch of pills in a half hearted effort to commit suicide and dialed 9-11 and as a result was involuntarily committed for 4 days.

She was placed in the very same psychiatric ward along with schizophrenics and psychotics, men and women together in the same unit. One gal became so violent one night that she had to be forcibly placed in a straight jacket and put in “the rubber room” while my friend watched in horror and wondering why she was there with crazy people. Another patient saw and talked to people who were not there and was given to outbursts of anger if others including my friend didn’t see them too. And another patient, a male was constantly trying to masturbate in front of the female patients when the staff weren’t looking. My friend was given thorzine to keep her “calm” just like all the other patients even though she didn’t display any violent tendencies and didn’t want to take it and was in fact terrified that something might happen to her while she was drugged up and not able to defend herself. She got no counseling or referrals for her drinking problem while she was there, all they wanted to know was if she was going to try and kill herself again and was simply released at the end of her 4 days after some doctor determined she wouldn’t. Fortunately after she got out after the mandatory 4 day hold it was a real wakeup call for her and she went back to AA and has stayed clean and sober ever since. But she told me it was the most frightening 4 days of her life, she still has occasional nightmares about it – she knew she wasn’t “crazy” but said if she had spent much more time in that place, she probably would become crazy.

Add to that that there is great society pressure on parents not to institutionalize their children, even if they could or even should. What do you imagine most people would say to the parents of a young child who chose to permanently send their child away to an institution? Sadly quite a few would say “You sent your child away to an institution because you just didn’t want to be bothered; you were too uncaring, too selfish to care for them”.

Again, I’m very concerned with how we deal with the seriously mentally ill – we don’t deal well with them; we used to warehouse them in snake pits, hell holes and now we instead put them out on the streets to fend for themselves which is often just as worse.

And we don’t do a good job of protecting the larger society from those that are seriously disturbed and dangerous. But we also don’t deal well with their families; we don’t give them the ability to commit when it is warranted and good places where their loved ones can be sent and compassionately cared for, a place for them to commit their sick family members to if needs be. And we don’t’ judge these families well when they try to do the right thing and on the other hand we blame them when they try and fail because the system doesn’t give them many options.

And again we also need to be very careful in how and what we determine to be “normal”. The kid who is shy and socially awkward, nerdy, the kid who would rather read a book or work on math problems or play video games in their spare time than go to the school dance or football game or parties or participate in PC activies or might disagree with a teacher, or the kid who enjoys hunting and fishing and wilderness camping and going to the gun range with his or her dad who might also be a Tea Party member, may one day not be considered “normal” and even potentially dangerous if the greater society, and most especially the government decides they are.

95 posted on 12/16/2012 3:55:30 PM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: txnativegop

What happened to the story the were saying Friday that the father was found dead in an apartment in New Jersey and the girlfriend was missing?


96 posted on 12/16/2012 3:56:31 PM PST by dandiegirl
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To: Parmy

Was there an event that set this kid off, or was this the result of his isolated lifestyle where the voices told him to kill?

It is hard to imagine him waking up and deciding that this was the day to kill his mother and others.


97 posted on 12/16/2012 4:00:06 PM PST by Delta Dawn (The whole truth.)
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To: Parmy

“In the old days, like 40 or 50 years ago, before Jerry Rivera, people like this would have been institutionalized before they could hurt others.”

I wonder if Whoraldo has connected those dots? I guess not: he’s too self-absorbed. Love to remind him, though.

(Good catch/connection.)


98 posted on 12/16/2012 4:04:32 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Mr Rogers
for all i know he tortured her to get into her gun safe, but short of that, she was playing with fire when she knew how whacked out he was to keep more than one gun in the house, to be used against him if need be...
99 posted on 12/16/2012 4:05:46 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: frithguild
DOH!!! yeah, i forgot... they will come after her estate

prolly try and drag her husband into it too

100 posted on 12/16/2012 4:08:29 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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