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High-Capacity-Magazine Bans: Threatened shopkeepers used 30-round magazines to fire warning shots...
National Review Online ^ | December 19, 2012 | Clayton E. Cramer

Posted on 12/19/2012 11:23:58 AM PST by neverdem

Threatened shopkeepers used 30-round magazines to fire warning shots and avoid taking lives.

Bans on high-capacity magazines (variously defined as those holding more than ten, fifteen, or twenty rounds) seem to be part of just about every law to ban assault weapons. The rationale is to prevent the ability to engage in killing sprees like the one on Friday in Connecticut.

Would a ban on high-capacity magazines (and not just a ban on new manufacture, as the 1994 federal law provided) make any difference in these massacres of the unarmed? I am hard pressed to see how. Detachable-magazine pistols and rifles have been in common use in the United States for more than a century. To replace an empty magazine with a fully loaded one typically takes one to two seconds, even under stressful conditions.

In a gunfight, being able to reload with new magazines is a real advantage, and this is why police officers and licensed civilians regularly carry spare magazines for their pistols. The deputy sheriff who was my concealed-weapons instructor in California emphasized to our class the importance of always having at least four spare magazines on your belt in case you are attacked.

When magazine bans were first proposed, the theory was that they would make police officers safer when attacked by criminals. But even the Clinton administration’s 1999 study of the federal assault-weapons ban (which banned new manufacture of magazines over ten rounds) found no statistically significant differences in murder rates of police officers because of the new law. This justification for the ban on high-capacity magazines has not survived real-world experiment.

How much actual “advantage” does a high-capacity magazine give to a monster who is shooting unarmed people? Practically none. The victims have no idea whether he is about to change magazines and are therefore in no position to flee or engage in a barehand attack (even if one of them has the remarkable coolness of mind to try something that courageously foolhardy). For practical purposes, a mass murderer with ten-round magazines is about as deadly as one with 20-round magazines. I suppose if you were to impose a really low limit, such as two or three rounds, you would start to make a real difference in these horrors, but that brings us to the other side of the equation.

A recurring question that I hear from gun-control advocates is, Why does anyone need high-capacity magazines? The implication is that they have no legitimate function. If they don’t, they should be prohibited to police officers, who carry handguns for self-defense; their job is not to shoot people in summary execution. A police officer’s use of a handgun is not so terribly different from that of a civilian with a gun in his home or, if licensed, on his person. While it is rare for either a police officer or a civilian to need 15 or 20 rounds in a gunfight, it is not unknown, and in some cases it is the difference between life and death for individuals engaged in self-defense. (When I lived in the Los Angeles area, I knew two different couples who experienced multiple invasions of their homes by intruders, with horrendous results. Yes, this has made me a little sensitive to the problem.)

There is one other situation where a high-capacity magazine serves a necessary, even praiseworthy function. During the riots following the Rodney King trial, many shopkeepers in the Korean section of Los Angeles confronted mobs threatening to loot and burn the stores. Some of the shopkeepers used high-capacity magazines in rifles to avoid taking lives. Yes, you read that right. By firing two or three shots over the heads of the rioters, the shopkeepers were able to impress on these criminals that they should keep their distance or risk death. Because they had 30-round magazines in their rifles, they could afford to fire two or three warning shots. Had they been limited to three or five rounds per magazine, they likely would have had the choice of abandoning their stores or making every bullet deadly.

On a shooting range, it’s really quite easy to keep every shot on the paper. Things are a bit different in a high-stress, poorly illuminated gunfight inside your home, where it is possible that for every three or four shots you fire, only one delivers an incapacitating blow to an attacker. Yes, you can change magazines rapidly with a modern pistol or rifle, but it is better not to have that distraction in the middle of a gunfight.

It is true that where I live now, I don’t worry about intruders or even burglary. I also haven’t had a flat tire in more than 100,000 miles, but I still keep a spare in the trunk: The cost of doing so is low, and the consequences of not being ready for that rare situation are too high. A high-capacity magazine is like that spare tire.

Clayton E. Cramer teaches history at the College of Western Idaho. His most recent book is My Brother Ron: A Personal and Social History of the Deinstitutionalization of the Mentally Ill.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: awbnuttery; banglist; capacity; hicap; magazines

1 posted on 12/19/2012 11:24:04 AM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem
I need high cap mags because I miss a lot.
2 posted on 12/19/2012 11:29:49 AM PST by grobdriver
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To: grobdriver

I don’t have any high cap mags. They were all lost in that boating accident I had last summer.


3 posted on 12/19/2012 11:33:57 AM PST by EQAndyBuzz (You can't bring something to its knees that refuses to stand on its own)
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To: neverdem

I can see the sign now!

DUE TO ECONOMIC CONDITIONS AND MAGAZINE BANS

HO WARNING SHOTS WILL BE FIRED!


4 posted on 12/19/2012 11:41:58 AM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: mountainlion

What’s a “HO” warning shot ?


5 posted on 12/19/2012 11:45:20 AM PST by PMAS (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing)
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To: PMAS
What’s a “HO” warning shot ?

An advance notice that a hooker is approaching? ;)

6 posted on 12/19/2012 11:53:55 AM PST by ZirconEncrustedTweezers (Some cultures are destined to remain stupid and we need to quit trying to uplift them.)
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To: PMAS

Warning shots fired at hos, of course.


7 posted on 12/19/2012 11:54:07 AM PST by grobdriver
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To: grobdriver

Hi Cap Mags are fun. I can make heap big noise.


8 posted on 12/19/2012 11:54:31 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: neverdem

Yeah, ban high capacity magazines. That will solve the problem and prevent all deaths in a gun free zone. /sarc


9 posted on 12/19/2012 11:58:11 AM PST by matt04
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To: neverdem
THE ABSOLUTE FINAL WORD ON THE POST SANDY HOOK GUN GRABBIN ATTEMPT AND THE 2ND AMENDMENT IN GENERAL! ....IT'S BROUGHT TO YOU BY ANN COULTER ON HOWIE CARR'S RADIO SHOW. LISTEN TO OUR FASCINATING BRAINY BEAUTY ANNIE COULTER AS SHE TAKES THE SUBJECT APART DEFTLY DROWNING LEFY, LOONEY GUN GRABBERS IN A NICE HOT FIERY BATH OF ACID LOGIC.............DON'T MISS THIS ONE IT'S.... GREAT!

http://audio.wrko.com/a/68393142/ann-coulter-on-the-shooting-spree-and-reaction.htm


10 posted on 12/19/2012 12:01:54 PM PST by jimsin
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To: neverdem

they can not get around the taking without compensation clause of the constitution.

if they ban all they have to BUY ALL AT MARKET PRICE!


11 posted on 12/19/2012 12:05:10 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: neverdem

I remember in Vietnam getting a 30 round magazine for my M16. The first time I ever used it, it jammed. The gunny was right, high capacity magazines are crap.


12 posted on 12/19/2012 12:09:33 PM PST by BuffaloJack (Children, pets, and slaves get taken care of. Free Men take care of themselves.)
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To: neverdem

The standard capacity magazine seems to be 15 to 17 rounds these days, at least for 9mm. Thirteen rounds has been the standard capacity for the 9mm Browning Hi-Power since 1935.

So what is a high-capacity-magazine? Who gets to define it? We let the other side define things too often.


13 posted on 12/19/2012 12:18:36 PM PST by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: matt04

14 posted on 12/19/2012 12:26:47 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: BuffaloJack

That was then, this is now:
Try MagPul mags, they have anti-tilt followers.
Never a problem on feed.


15 posted on 12/19/2012 12:27:15 PM PST by TaMoDee ( Lassez les bons temps rouler dans les 2012! Allez Pack!)
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To: neverdem

I don’t expect a fire but I still have afire extinguisher for an emergence]y.


16 posted on 12/19/2012 12:29:05 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Why is the government more concerned about protecting a microbe on Mars than an unborn baby here?)
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To: BuffaloJack
I remember in Vietnam getting a 30 round magazine for my M16. The first time I ever used it, it jammed. The gunny was right, high capacity magazines are crap.

High capacity magazine failure to feed correctly has been noted in some of these tragedies, but the M16's action was prone to jam if not kept scrupulously clean.

IIRC, they initially also used the gunpowder originally intended for the 7.62 mm NATO round instead of the originally recommended gunpowder for the 5.56 mm ammo. They had different burning rates. The gunpowder for the NATO round took the heat initially for a design that's prone to getting dirty. My M16 extractor retaining pin broke on me over 40 years ago at just the wrong time.

17 posted on 12/19/2012 12:46:35 PM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem

It seems to me that a magazines is basically a metal box with a spring at the bottom.

Maybe I’m wrong but wouldn’t it be pretty easy for someone with even minimal metal working skills to make one to hold an arbitrary number of cartriges?


18 posted on 12/19/2012 1:26:06 PM PST by DManA
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To: DManA

or even produce them en mase with no way to know when they were made.


19 posted on 12/19/2012 1:30:34 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: grobdriver; neverdem

The Dems have yet to figure out that there is a positive correlation between instituting bans on high-round magazines and buying MORE GUNS.


20 posted on 12/19/2012 1:31:31 PM PST by 4Liberty (Some on our "Roads & Bridges" head to the beach. Others head to their offices, farms, libraries....)
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To: BuffaloJack; neverdem

I preferred 20-round magazines for fire-and-maneuver exercises in scarce, low cover situations in the field. Only training experience, but never got zapped in 7 years while playing with our fancy (expensive) laser tag gear (avoiding public use of service acronyms here). Well, 6 years (REMF heavy unit misnamed “combat” for the last year of 7).


21 posted on 12/19/2012 1:33:04 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: neverdem

Have we yet been told which firearms the Newtown shooter used, and the firing mode he employed? Did he have an automatic weapon, one that would keep on firing rounds as long as its trigger was suppressed and ammo was being supplied? I believe the answers are (1) No, and (2) we do not know.


22 posted on 12/19/2012 1:51:50 PM PST by Elsiejay
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To: Elsiejay

The Assault Media:

blah blah blah new laws blah blah blah new laws blah blah blah ban blah blah blah ban blah blah blah for the children blah blah blah...

reload, repeat


23 posted on 12/19/2012 2:03:07 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: neverdem
Excellent article, thanks for posting.

We need more people like Cramer speaking up on Mass Media -- which is why he won't get invited to engage Reverend Al on PMSNBC.

24 posted on 12/19/2012 2:27:23 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Elsiejay
Have we yet been told which firearms the Newtown shooter used .....

He had two good-quality autopistols he stole from his murdered mother. He also had the Bushmaster AR.

We got second-storied on what weapon(s) he used in the attack. Friday, media told us he used the pistols, and the Bushmaster was left in his car, and he committed suicide with one of the pistols. On Sunday they were saying he used the Bushmaster for all the killings and for shooting his way in. Every other word was "Bushmaster" -- so much so that I suspect the story's been "edited" by political people.

Eventually we'll get it all straight, but Obama is trying to get his laws in just a few weeks, even before his Inaugural.

25 posted on 12/19/2012 2:32:21 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: jimsin

Thank you for the link. It was a 1/2 hour well spent.


26 posted on 12/19/2012 2:36:45 PM PST by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: BuffaloJack
I remember in Vietnam getting a 30 round magazine for my M16. The first time I ever used it, it jammed. The gunny was right, high capacity magazines are crap.

You and your Gunny need to try again ... 30rd magazines are NOT crap in AD2012.

27 posted on 12/19/2012 2:52:13 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: lentulusgracchus; Elsiejay
We got second-storied on what weapon(s) he used in the attack. Friday, media told us he used the pistols, and the Bushmaster was left in his car, and he committed suicide with one of the pistols. On Sunday they were saying he used the Bushmaster for all the killings and for shooting his way in. Every other word was "Bushmaster" -- so much so that I suspect the story's been "edited" by political people.

That's what I remember. The initial reports were so much nonsense.

28 posted on 12/19/2012 2:56:21 PM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: BuffaloJack
Since the design of the rifle caused hot gases from the barrel to get into the bolt area of the gun, Stoner specificed the ammo to use new cleaner burning powders to minimize fouling of the weapon. Colt bought the rights to make the AR15 rifle from Armalite corporation.

The AR15/M16 was introduced during the Vietnam War with a total lack of serious evaluation and testing. Although Stoner specified what kind of powder to use in the ammunition, the army instead purchased ammo using older "ball" powders causing serious reliability issues resulting in the deaths of American boys in combat when their weapons failed.

29 posted on 12/19/2012 3:34:38 PM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: UCANSEE2

Thank you for the link. It was a 1/2 hour well spent.

YOU’RE WELCOME..and you can SAY THAT AGAIN....what a pleasure to listen to 2 intelligent people who back up their arguements with facts....and do so in such witty manner.....what a pair those 2 are....national treasures....to say the least....


30 posted on 12/19/2012 4:57:08 PM PST by jimsin
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To: longtermmemmory
if they ban all they have to BUY ALL AT MARKET PRICE!

You do relize that "we" are the "they" that will end up paying?

31 posted on 12/26/2012 3:45:07 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: neverdem

And when banning 30 round magazines doesn't make a difference (and it won't) they will ban 20 round magazines....

And when banning 20 round magazines doesn't make a difference (and it won't) they will ban 10 round magazines....

And when banning 10 round magazines doesn't work (and it won't) they will ban all guns!

This is only the first step of tyranny!


32 posted on 12/26/2012 3:55:06 AM PST by airborne (MY HEROES DON'T WEAR CAPES. MY HEROES WEAR DOG TAGS ! ! !)
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To: neverdem
From a government which wants to legalize 40 million illegals because they'd be too much trouble to round up, we get people who think they are going to maybe get some 300,000,000 firearms and God-only-knows how many tin and composite boxes designed to feed them.

Ri-ight.

33 posted on 12/26/2012 4:06:36 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: neverdem
My Brother Ron: A Personal and Social History of the Deinstitutionalization of the Mentally Ill

This book or one like it is what I am talking about. Urban Democrats used these funds on their friends, families and other "more pressing" projects instead of caring for the most severely mentally ill people. At the heart of nearly every social disaster is some government program that has failed.

Pin this on the Democrats and the "assault weapon/gun control" meme dies.

34 posted on 12/27/2012 3:53:06 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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