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WE KNOW HOW TO STOP SCHOOL SHOOTINGS (ANN COULTER)
Ann Coulter Website ^ | December 19, 2012 | Ann Coulter

Posted on 12/19/2012 4:41:19 PM PST by fkabuckeyesrule

In the wake of a monstrous crime like a madman's mass murder of defenseless women and children at the Newtown, Conn., elementary school, the nation's attention is riveted on what could have been done to prevent such a massacre.

Luckily, some years ago, two famed economists, William Landes at the University of Chicago and John Lott at Yale, conducted a massive study of multiple victim public shootings in the United States between 1977 and 1995 to see how various legal changes affected their frequency and death toll.

Landes and Lott examined many of the very policies being proposed right now in response to the Connecticut massacre: waiting periods and background checks for guns, the death penalty and increased penalties for committing a crime with a gun.

None of these policies had any effect on the frequency of, or carnage from, multiple-victim shootings. (I note that they did not look at reforming our lax mental health laws, presumably because the ACLU is working to keep dangerous nuts on the street in all 50 states.)

Only one public policy has ever been shown to reduce the death rate from such crimes: concealed-carry laws.

Their study controlled for age, sex, race, unemployment, retirement, poverty rates, state population, murder arrest rates, violent crime rates, and on and on.

The effect of concealed-carry laws in deterring mass public shootings was even greater than the impact of such laws on the murder rate generally.

Someone planning to commit a single murder in a concealed-carry state only has to weigh the odds of one person being armed. But a criminal planning to commit murder in a public place has to worry that anyone in the entire area might have a gun.

You will notice that most multiple-victim shootings occur in "gun-free zones" -- even within states that have concealed-carry laws: public schools, churches, Sikh temples, post offices, the movie theater where James Holmes committed mass murder, and the Portland, Ore., mall where a nut starting gunning down shoppers a few weeks ago.

Guns were banned in all these places. Mass killers may be crazy, but they're not stupid.

If the deterrent effect of concealed-carry laws seems surprising to you, that's because the media hide stories of armed citizens stopping mass shooters. At the Portland shooting, for example, no explanation was given for the amazing fact that the assailant managed to kill only two people in the mall during the busy Christmas season.

It turns out, concealed-carry-holder Nick Meli hadn't noticed that the mall was a gun-free zone. He pointed his (otherwise legal) gun at the shooter as he paused to reload, and the next shot was the attempted mass murderer killing himself. (Meli aimed, but didn't shoot, because there were bystanders behind the shooter.)

In a nonsense "study" going around the Internet right now, Mother Jones magazine claims to have produced its own study of all public shootings in the last 30 years and concludes: "In not a single case was the killing stopped by a civilian using a gun."

This will come as a shock to people who know something about the subject.

The magazine reaches its conclusion by simply excluding all cases where an armed civilian stopped the shooter: They looked only at public shootings where four or more people were killed, i.e., the ones where the shooter wasn't stopped.

If we care about reducing the number of people killed in mass shootings, shouldn't we pay particular attention to the cases where the aspiring mass murderer was prevented from getting off more than a couple rounds?

It would be like testing the effectiveness of weed killers, but refusing to consider any cases where the weeds died.

In addition to the Portland mall case, here are a few more examples excluded by the Mother Jones' methodology:

-- Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero.

-- Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two. (I'm excluding the shooters' deaths in these examples.)

-- Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.

-- Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates -- as well as the "trained campus supervisor"; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

-- Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman's head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

-- Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One.

By contrast, the shootings in gun-free zones invariably result in far higher casualty figures -- Sikh temple, Oak Creek, Wis. (six dead); Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Va. (32 dead); Columbine High School, Columbine, Colo. (12 dead); Amish school, Lancaster County, Pa. (five little girls killed); public school, Craighead County, Ark. (five killed, including four little girls).

All these took place in gun-free zones, resulting in lots of people getting killed -- and thereby warranting inclusion in the Mother Jones study.

If what we care about is saving the lives of innocent human beings by reducing the number of mass public shootings and the deaths they cause, only one policy has ever been shown to work: concealed-carry laws. On the other hand, if what we care about is self-indulgent grandstanding, and to hell with dozens of innocent children being murdered in cold blood, try the other policies.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; guns; newtown
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I know alot of folks here are down on Annie and I understand that. This is an excellent column where she points out the truth of the left's and Mother Jones in particular agruements claiming that conceal carry laws would not matter.
1 posted on 12/19/2012 4:41:23 PM PST by fkabuckeyesrule
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

Bumping a good article.


2 posted on 12/19/2012 4:49:22 PM PST by Inyo-Mono (My greatest fear is that when I'm gone my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

She forgot the church in, I think, Colorado.


3 posted on 12/19/2012 4:51:10 PM PST by Timmy
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

The problem with this article and others like it is that those on the pro-firearms side are already well aware of the flawed logic and failed statistics behind liberal gun legislation, and those on the other side don’t care about minor trivialities like facts.


4 posted on 12/19/2012 4:51:42 PM PST by SpaceBar
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

Thank you for posting this.


5 posted on 12/19/2012 4:51:42 PM PST by MeganC (Our forefathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

Lott / Landes Study PDF

“Multiple Victim Public Shootings”

http://www.thevrwc.org/JohnLott.pdf


6 posted on 12/19/2012 4:53:15 PM PST by DoughtyOne (How about a waiting period for putting crazys out on the streets, say NEVER!)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

bttt


7 posted on 12/19/2012 4:53:42 PM PST by A Cyrenian (Timothy Geithner - proving TurboTax is not idiot proof.)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

Bookmark


8 posted on 12/19/2012 4:54:21 PM PST by DocRock (All they that TAKE the sword shall perish with the sword. Matthew 26:52 Gun grabbers beware.)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

I, on the other hand, do not care to see anything written or said by her anymore — especially on FR. She’s a false prophet.


9 posted on 12/19/2012 4:54:48 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: SpaceBar

There’s another problem...

If someone has a firm belief, I don’t care what evidence you present, they’ll simply dismiss it and go on believing what they please.

We do it some too, but the Left swims in this logic.


10 posted on 12/19/2012 4:54:48 PM PST by DoughtyOne (How about a waiting period for putting crazys out on the streets, say NEVER!)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule
Its funny to watch the hysterical reaction of the anti-gun folks to the common sense fact that relaxed conceal carry laws prevent mass shootings. They really are clueless.
11 posted on 12/19/2012 4:59:08 PM PST by skeeter
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To: Resettozero

That’s right! She supported Mitt Romney! Wharrgarbl!


12 posted on 12/19/2012 4:59:32 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: fkabuckeyesrule
Guns were banned in all these places. Mass killers may be crazy, but they're not stupid...I wonder how many of those outraged at the idea of having fire-power and trained shooters available in schools because some innocent child or staff member might be accidentally hurt in a close-quarter incident would like to see sky-marshals withdrawn from our airplanes.......
13 posted on 12/19/2012 4:59:38 PM PST by Intolerant in NJ
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

One MAJOR component to stopping kids (boys especially) from becoming demonic, lawless, fearless animals IS FOR MEN OR FATHER FIGURES TO GIVE THEM DISCIPLINE STARTING AT AN EARLY AGE. 100% FEMALE OVERSIGHT OF BOYS AT HOME, IN THE SCHOOLS AND IN DAYCARE ISN’T CUTTING IT.


14 posted on 12/19/2012 5:01:28 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

15 posted on 12/19/2012 5:02:42 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Pennies and Nickels will NO LONGER be Minted as of 1/1/13 - Tim Geithner, US Treasury Sect)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

Evan Sayet lays it quite well in his pamplet... about liberals and their strange decisions.. laws.. political dysfunction..

The KinderGarden of Eden; How the Modern Liberal thinks..
Permanent infantile logic.. he is spot on and over the target..
Liberals heads will explode after reading it.

http://evansayet.com/blog/


16 posted on 12/19/2012 5:06:59 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: Timmy
She forgot the church in, I think, Colorado.

The church shooter in Colorado was stopped by a security person in the congregation that was an ex cop. She walked toward the shooter emptying her gun. She missed a few times but stopped him.

17 posted on 12/19/2012 5:07:48 PM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

bkmk


18 posted on 12/19/2012 5:09:36 PM PST by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule
The only way to protect a group from a killer is training for such an event.

Outlawing the possible tool to be used by the killer is not a precaution.

Principals and Assistant Principals and teachers must be trained to respond.

Outlawing weapons is like outlawing venomous snakes. Once they have done their job, they care nothing about the legal ramifications.

To protect children, one must define the danger and develop and implement a trained (practiced and effective) defense.

The law is not a preemptive defense in the case of suicide by cop (or just suicide). The law is only applicable after a crime has been committed.

The only defense before such a crime is protective force (deadly force).

This will not fall pleasant on liberal ears...but it is the truth.

Gun control doesn't work because the criminals don't abide by the law.

Only law abiding citizens abide by the law...and they are the victims...not the perps.

19 posted on 12/19/2012 5:11:00 PM PST by RoosterRedux (He will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats)
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To: Resettozero
She’s a false prophet.

And just what are your credentials to assess that?

20 posted on 12/19/2012 5:13:24 PM PST by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: 1rudeboy
That’s right! She supported Mitt Romney!

Not what I meant. I should have said something like "She no longer speaks as a conservative for conservatives in America, if she ever truly did."

No longer am I amused by the posting of supposedly cute, patriotic, and sexy pictures of her on FR as I was some years ago. I don't want to see her aiming the rifle on the porch steps. No longer do I seek or want her advice on any subject and will not be purchasing or reading any books or articles she may wish to sell.

The Romney thing, true, brought quite a few failures to light regarding her previous reputation as an uber-conservative spokesperson. I no longer believe she is very sincere about conservatism. And even if she is, I don't care to listen to her.
21 posted on 12/19/2012 5:15:11 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: DoughtyOne
If someone has a firm belief, I don’t care what evidence you present, they’ll simply dismiss it and go on believing what they please.

Yes myself and a friend (who gave me the article) presented Arron Zellman's Interview from 1995-ish time frame in a Gun Magazine to Liberal friends, mine was a co-worker, his, his girlfriend. My co-worker turned white as a ghost when presented the evidence and mumbled away, ya but I don't care I still want the ban, his girlfriend was pissed and sort of had an answer similar to my friend..

You see you challenge their epistemology and it is to scary, that you are challenging how they know what they know. It makes all the liberal lies of what they know fall like a house of cards, and it is too painful, because you are going to their core.

They can't have it, they'd rather go on believing in the tooth fairy...

22 posted on 12/19/2012 5:17:26 PM PST by taildragger (( Tighten the 5 point harness and brace for Impact Freepers, ya know it's coming..... ))
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To: elkfersupper
And just what are your credentials to assess that?

The same as yours or any poster giving their opinion on FR. Is it really necessary to add "in my opinion" to everything posted here?
23 posted on 12/19/2012 5:18:52 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: hosepipe

He has a good talk at the Heritage Foundation.


24 posted on 12/19/2012 5:20:32 PM PST by EEGator
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To: fkabuckeyesrule
On the other hand, if what we care about is self-indulgent grandstanding, and to hell with dozens of innocent children being murdered in cold blood, try the other policies.

That's exactly the plan.

Many wise men and women pointed out that the dictator cannot thrive in a free society. He only can rise in a society where enough people beg him to come, rule over them and repair all the ills of the world.

The US society, even at this point, is perfectly capable of stopping the problem of armed madmen, and the article explains exactly how. However the people in power are not interested in that. They want to use the crisis to further their agenda of total dependency upon the government.

Disarming the population acts on several fronts. First, it monopolizes violence in the hands of the government. Second, it makes citizens into defenseless cowards who must beg the government whenever something untoward happens. But the government will not be quick with help (when does it ever happen?) This creates the atmosphere of terror within the society, when people know that they are vulnerable and helpless. In such an atmosphere a dictator can have a free reign, with full approval of the populace, just with a few show trials and a few flashy new measures that will have no effect (at best.)

25 posted on 12/19/2012 5:21:30 PM PST by Greysard
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To: Resettozero

Yet you’re posting on this thread.


26 posted on 12/19/2012 5:23:18 PM PST by EEGator
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To: elkfersupper

Sorry elkfersupper, Ann HAS shamelessly supported too many RINO’s in her arguments. Political solutions involving “kicking the can down the road” RINO’s will solve very little in what needs to be done. Only a fool goes back to a dry well. She now rates as casual reading, if that.


27 posted on 12/19/2012 5:24:59 PM PST by seraphim (Going Galt is the only way now.)
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To: EEGator

Yes, just consider it’s my vote as a FReeper. And yes, you are correct; I posted on this thread several times.


28 posted on 12/19/2012 5:26:03 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero
I, on the other hand, do not care to see anything written or said by her anymore — especially on FR. She’s a false prophet.

I think you're going to be disappointed. She's a person with an opinion, I doubt she's aiming for the prophet label.

29 posted on 12/19/2012 5:27:40 PM PST by glorgau
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To: fkabuckeyesrule
Just like any other terrorist, these killers attack what they consider to be soft targets where there will be little or no resistance. If they don't take a large number of innocent victims with them, they would not get the media attention and create the fear, chaos, and notoriety they desire.

Gun control won't help. It didn't help stop the massacre in Oslo, Norway or the Beslan school attack in Russia. It also didn't stop the 911 terrorist armed with just box cutters from killing almost 3,000 people in NY, DC, and PA.

Increasing the odds of quickly stopping those determined to kill innocent people is the only way to minimize the damage of the next attack. If the next lunatic cannot get a hold of a gun, then a bomb, a machete, a car, or a baseball bat can be used to kill defenseless, unarmed innocents.

30 posted on 12/19/2012 5:30:56 PM PST by eggman (End the Obama occupation of the White House!)
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To: glorgau
I think you're going to be disappointed.

Your prophecy has already come true. I was disappointed in her before tonight.
31 posted on 12/19/2012 5:31:27 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

I never lost my love for Ann (I STILL WANT TO BEAR YOUR CHILDREN ANN!) even though she supported Romney when I didnt

(ITS OK HONEY YOU DONT HAVE TO AGREE WITH ME 100%)


32 posted on 12/19/2012 5:43:20 PM PST by Mr. K (Sign: "Gun Free Zone- Criminals: This Means You!" <-- democrap thinking)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

I never lost my love for Ann (I STILL WANT TO BEAR YOUR CHILDREN ANN!) even though she supported Romney when I didnt

(ITS OK HONEY YOU DONT HAVE TO AGREE WITH ME 100%)


33 posted on 12/19/2012 5:43:37 PM PST by Mr. K (Sign: "Gun Free Zone- Criminals: This Means You!" <-- democrap thinking)
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To: SpaceBar

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

there are conservatives, like a friend I have,who do not understand about guns, but when I point out articles like this, they stop, think and reconsider their position.


34 posted on 12/19/2012 5:47:04 PM PST by Recovering Ex-hippie (Go Galt!)
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To: mountainlion
Good memory.

I watched her interview. One seriously tough lady. Coiled like a spring, cool as ice.

35 posted on 12/19/2012 5:54:13 PM PST by Regulator
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To: RoosterRedux

The problem with the suggestion that principals and teachers start carrying in school is that teachers are a largely a bunch of nutso lefties who hate guns and wouldn’t pull the trigger if their own life depended on it.

Great idea, but I’m skeptical it would ever be implemented.


36 posted on 12/19/2012 5:58:54 PM PST by Cuttnhorse
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*


37 posted on 12/19/2012 6:09:55 PM PST by PMAS (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule
It turns out, concealed-carry-holder Nick Meli hadn't noticed that the mall was a gun-free zone. He pointed his (otherwise legal) gun at the shooter as he paused to reload, and the next shot was the attempted mass murderer killing himself. (Meli aimed, but didn't shoot, because there were bystanders behind the shooter.)

Has this been verified?
I read the original article about the CCW holder, but have any witnesses come out yet?
38 posted on 12/19/2012 6:11:11 PM PST by RandallFlagg ("Liberalism is about as progressive as CANCER" -Alfonzo Rachel)
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To: Cuttnhorse
The problem with the suggestion that principals and teachers start carrying in school is that teachers are a largely a bunch of nutso lefties who hate guns and wouldn’t pull the trigger if their own life depended on it.

Depends largely on the school.

It would be pointless to authorize principals and teachers in urban schools. There's a high risk that the guns wend up in the wrong hands (the students').

Similarly, suburban schools -- which are largely populated by the sort you describe.

Rural schools? No problem. The administration, teachers and students all know what guns are for...and how to use them.

39 posted on 12/19/2012 6:11:31 PM PST by okie01
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

Mother Jones purposely left out the statistics that show THE OPPOSITE of the exact point they were trying to make

When you leave out the low body count killings, you eliminate most of the cases where ANOTHER GUN SAVED LIVES!

There are lies, dammed lies, statistics, and democrap talking points.


40 posted on 12/19/2012 6:16:05 PM PST by Mr. K (There are lies, dammed lies, statistics, and democrap talking points.)
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To: Cuttnhorse

I’d suggest placing retired cops and military men in the schools with AR-15’s or something similar. Pay them a small stipend.


41 posted on 12/19/2012 6:38:09 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Cigarettes are like squirrels: Perfectly harmless until you put one in your mouth and set it on fire)
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To: Resettozero
I, on the other hand, do not care to see anything written or said by her anymore — especially on FR. She’s a false prophet.

Thanks for dropping in to make that announcement.

42 posted on 12/19/2012 6:43:13 PM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

Apparently, AC has kept her sanity about guns. This is a good article.


43 posted on 12/19/2012 7:02:23 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Resettozero

Well, if liberals have the inability to separate the message from the person, why not freepers like you?

Until conservatives start looking at politics in a tactical manner, we’ll have more 2012’s. Enjoy the next four years!


44 posted on 12/19/2012 7:13:33 PM PST by Loud Mime (Conservatives refused to unite; now we pay the price!)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

What happened to that deliciously delightful Ann Coulter posting rule?


45 posted on 12/19/2012 7:42:52 PM PST by lightman (If the Patriarchate of the East held a state like the Vatican I would apply for political asylum.)
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To: Resettozero
No longer am I amused by the posting of supposedly cute, patriotic, and sexy pictures of her on FR as I was some years ago. I don't want to see her aiming the rifle on the porch steps. No longer do I seek or want her advice on any subject and will not be purchasing or reading any books or articles she may wish to sell.

Then why did you click on this thread and waste your time and others' by posting on it -- more than once?

46 posted on 12/19/2012 8:10:32 PM PST by Albion Wilde (The only way to stop a man with a gun is with a gun. --Daniel Greenfield)
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To: Resettozero

“I, on the other hand, do not care to see anything written or said by her anymore — especially on FR. “

-

I’m confused. If you feel that way why on earth did you click onto this thread? Her name is in the header for Pete’s sake.

.


47 posted on 12/19/2012 8:17:30 PM PST by Mears
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To: RoosterRedux

“To protect children, one must define the danger and develop and implement a trained (practiced and effective) defense.”

Protecting children at school should be the easy part. Give them the same protection our lawmakers have, armed guards at their workplace/school.Children are at risk coming and going from school also. Do away with school buses(a major attack waiting to happen) Protecting our children is a major problem as they are prime targets. A ban on black guns won’t do a damned thing to prevent another attack on our children


48 posted on 12/19/2012 9:15:40 PM PST by Figment
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To: fkabuckeyesrule
[Coulter article] The magazine reaches its conclusion by simply excluding all cases where an armed civilian stopped the shooter: They looked only at public shootings where four or more people were killed, i.e., the ones where the shooter wasn't stopped.

This makes their proposition a tautology -- an offense against logic and on-the-square debate.

Also known as sharping or pencil-whipping the other guy.

Basically, it's dishonest, and that's all we need to know. But we knew that as soon as Ann told us a liberal had said it with a straight face.

49 posted on 12/19/2012 11:29:33 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Mr. Silverback
....military men in the schools with AR-15’s or something similar ....

Nah. Shotguns. Avoid overpenetration, accidentally killing Mrs. McGillicuddy in her clapboard house 1-3/4's miles away.

Something like that happened in the 1992 L.A. riots. The Korean shopkeepers cranking rounds at the rioting black mob nailed a Hispana coming home from the grocery on foot. She was something near two miles from the riot zone [TIME reported] when she stopped a big-bore pistol bullet with her forehead. She dropped dead on the spot.

Then there was the Philadelphia woman who had a late-night visitor in the form of a .223-cal. round come through her apartment wall just above her head, from a LE/SWAT/SpecOps live-fire exercise in a vacant high-rise a mile or so away. A round got away and came to see her. Interrupted her bedtime reading.

50 posted on 12/19/2012 11:42:16 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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