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‘Citizen Drone Warfare’: Hobbyist explores a frightening scenario
The Washington Times ^ | December 17, 2012 | Patrick Hruby

Posted on 12/19/2012 7:03:56 PM PST by Seizethecarp

Less than a month ago, rumors that celebrity news and gossip website TMZ was interested in obtaining a paparazzi drone prompted privacy concerns and public debate about the appropriate personal and commercial uses of unmanned aerial vehicles.

Now, a new online video poses a more troubling question: What if civilian drones are equipped to shoot more than just pictures?

Titled “Citizen Drone Warfare” and posted to YouTube last week by an anonymous man calling himself “Milo Danger,” the video shows a hobbyist drone equipped with a custom-mounted paintball pistol flying over a grassy field and peppering human-shaped shooting-range targets with pellets.

Following an attack pass by the drone, one of the targets sports three large red blotches on its head and neck area.

“I wanted to show an inevitability of what I think will happen with these drones,” said “Milo,” who lives on the West Coast and spoke to The Washington Times on condition of anonymity. “I’m not advocating bad activities. But I wanted to raise some of the ethical issues we need to think about with this new technology.

Though Federal Aviation Administration regulations do not explicitly mention the use of firearms on drones, they do prohibit any type of recreational flying or dropping objects from aircraft that endanger life or property.

DIYDrones.com, a drone hobbyist website and online community that counts defense and aerospace engineers among its 32,000 members and averages more than 1.5 million page views a month, discourages using or modifying drones for any uses that are “potentially illegal or intended to do harm.”

“We’ve banned the weaponized use of drones,” said Chris Anderson, the site’s founder. “So in our community, the reaction to this video is dismay.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: drone; terrorist; uav
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1 posted on 12/19/2012 7:04:04 PM PST by Seizethecarp
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To: Seizethecarp

I just posted on FR the other day my concern that the first US citizen casualty on US soil from a drone attack would not be from law enforcement but from terrorists, criminals, or jealous lovers!


2 posted on 12/19/2012 7:05:57 PM PST by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from "runway kill zone" mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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To: Seizethecarp

Hobbyist drones vs. jackboot drones!


3 posted on 12/19/2012 7:06:10 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Seizethecarp

Don’t worry about your fellow citizens, worry about your government.


4 posted on 12/19/2012 7:08:32 PM PST by DManA ( l)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Wonder which geeks build the jackboot drones? And which build the hobbyist drones? Surely it couldn't be the same geeks....

/johnny

5 posted on 12/19/2012 7:10:54 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Seizethecarp

As a major league tinkerer, part of me says, ‘cool idea’. Then another side of me says, ‘very cool idea’.


6 posted on 12/19/2012 7:11:58 PM PST by bramps (Sarah Palin got more votes in 2008 than Mitt Romney got in 2012)
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To: DManA

I worry about both.


7 posted on 12/19/2012 7:12:45 PM PST by floralamiss ("For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.")
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To: HiTech RedNeck

The people who are flying these don’t seek air clearance before doing so (and I’ve even heard this complaint lodged against law enforcement officers who want to use them to monitor traffic and neighborhoods).


8 posted on 12/19/2012 7:13:41 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: JRandomFreeper
Wonder which geeks build the jackboot drones? And which build the hobbyist drones? Surely it couldn't be the same geeks....

Pro'lly China. I saw them for sale at an electronics store as a Christmas gift idea.

9 posted on 12/19/2012 7:15:26 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Travis McGee; ATLDiver; Joe Brower

Ping. You guys need to see this.

Nothing unexpected. Just more obvious every day where things are headed.


10 posted on 12/19/2012 7:17:24 PM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Seizethecarp

Pull!


11 posted on 12/19/2012 7:17:56 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Seizethecarp

Is a hobbyist drone just a radio-controlled airplane? Like an AR-15 is now a combat weapon?


12 posted on 12/19/2012 7:22:00 PM PST by gotribe
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To: FreedomPoster

A mini-drone helicopter or fixed wing can also kill with kinetic force alone...if targeted at the right place. No onboard projectile or bomb needed! (see my tag line)


13 posted on 12/19/2012 7:22:43 PM PST by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from "runway kill zone" mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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To: a fool in paradise
I've been flying RC aircraft for years, and use my federal ham radio license so I don't have to fight for the public frequencies.

Drones are a whole different critter.

Some stuff overlaps.

Either way, I just dug out a box of 12 ga. #8 shot to have handy. You never can tell when you might want it. ;)

/johnny

14 posted on 12/19/2012 7:23:07 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Seizethecarp
There's only ONE answer - outlaw ALL hobbies...

A psychopath with a heavy stamp collectors book can kill... So can the gardener with his rake and hoe... We need to get serious about all of this - citizens should be confined to their rooms until Mommy - oops - I mean the State - tells them it's safe to sit in the living room...

15 posted on 12/19/2012 7:23:37 PM PST by GOPJ (Detroit should be renamed 'Michael Mooresville'...)
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To: Seizethecarp

Just another scare of the week to send the weak minded over the edge. How long have we had large scale remote control aircraft available to hobbyists? What about this is beyond the average engineering student or experienced hobbyist? Why not run a story about someone placing a good sized bomb in a RC plane for a poor mans cruise missile? Woulda, coulda, shoulda! Don’t we have enough real threats to worry about without this nonsense?


16 posted on 12/19/2012 7:24:02 PM PST by Mastador1
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To: Windflier
 
 
Pull!
 
 
 
The 2nd Amendment - it's not just for "sporting purposes"!
 

17 posted on 12/19/2012 7:26:23 PM PST by lapsus calami (What's that stink? Code Pink ! ! And their buddy Murtha, too!)
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To: Seizethecarp

Where is the video”


18 posted on 12/19/2012 7:30:18 PM PST by Godebert (No Person Except a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!)
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To: Seizethecarp

I was just discussing with someone you can now buy RC drones off the shelf that look like dragonfly’s.


19 posted on 12/19/2012 7:30:37 PM PST by Eye of Unk (A Civil Cold War in America is here, its already been declared.)
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To: Mastador1

Back in the 1980’s the Greaseman on Wash DC’s FM 101.1 had a very funny bit about putting a .22 on a RC plane he painted black and used it to shoot down RC hobbyist’s planes that were keeping him up when he was trying to sleep during his work at a station where he worked nights.


20 posted on 12/19/2012 7:30:45 PM PST by Alas Babylon!
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To: Seizethecarp
A mini-drone helicopter or fixed wing can also kill with kinetic force alone...if targeted at the right place.

Horse droppings.

I've had a rather large RC helicopter crap itself to death at high RPM and launch a blade at me that hit me in the triangle. The repairs cost about $240 but the blade that hit me didn't even snag a thread on my field jacket. That's an 18" wooden blade at max speed. I was very close when that happened.

/johnny

21 posted on 12/19/2012 7:31:27 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: lapsus calami
Perzactly.

/johnny

22 posted on 12/19/2012 7:32:50 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Mastador1
"Don’t we have enough real threats to worry about without this nonsense?"

Yes, I'll name the top three.

1. Government

2. Government

3. Government

23 posted on 12/19/2012 7:33:15 PM PST by precisionshootist
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To: Seizethecarp

Dream on...


24 posted on 12/19/2012 7:39:41 PM PST by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: Seizethecarp

You can buy a fully functional drone w camera (routed to your smart phone) at any Verizon store.


25 posted on 12/19/2012 7:39:51 PM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: Seizethecarp

26 posted on 12/19/2012 7:40:14 PM PST by Theoria (Romney is a Pyrrhic victory.)
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To: Alas Babylon!

There was a great episode of “Magnum P.I.” that opened and closed with the same problem. John Hillerman’s character was waking up Magnum while trying to reenact famous Battle of Britain dogfights with a couple of R/C planes.

At the end, Magnum reenacted some ack-ack with a side-by-side 12 gauge.

Priceless.


27 posted on 12/19/2012 7:46:45 PM PST by M1903A1 ("We shed all that is good and virtuous for that which is shoddy and sleazy... and call it progress")
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To: Seizethecarp

I have the right to fly a drone. I have the right to bear arms. What’s the problem?

Just like with guns, I’d rather that citizens be allowed to have any armed drones that the government can possess, than ban them. I trust my neighbors more than I trust the government, even if I can’t trust either 100%.


28 posted on 12/19/2012 7:48:41 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Seizethecarp

I predict that there will be a video or two in the next few months from a do-it-yourself drone that flies out over area 51, avoids detection, and catches a glimpse of a flying saucer in a hangar with an alien being beside it. It will be a fake; disinformation generated by the military.


29 posted on 12/19/2012 7:51:12 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: GOPJ

I always suspected that philatelists are ticking time bombs.


30 posted on 12/19/2012 7:55:25 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Theoria

The look on the deer’s face is priceless! :-)


31 posted on 12/19/2012 7:55:51 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Kevmo

Would be easy to build an Rc blimp with electric motors, nearly silent, fit it with nightvision cameras especially a bombsight and make some DIY smart bombs, themselves basically inverted fired model rockets.


32 posted on 12/19/2012 7:57:57 PM PST by Eye of Unk (A Civil Cold War in America is here, its already been declared.)
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To: Eye of Unk

The Gov’t is already behind the scenes gonna crack down on the hobby and such. Last year or this year they captured a ‘terrorist’ who was gonna use some movie plot attack with RC planes and such.


33 posted on 12/19/2012 8:00:43 PM PST by Theoria (Romney is a Pyrrhic victory.)
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To: Seizethecarp

Add a pound of plastique and there’s your guided missile on the cheap.

Time to pick up a goose gun and move out to the boondocks...


34 posted on 12/19/2012 8:08:03 PM PST by fattigermaster
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To: Seizethecarp

Where do people think the military get’s their ideas from? Pull it out of their asses? Ban one type of weapon, and ingenuity will quickly fill the vacuum.


35 posted on 12/19/2012 8:12:20 PM PST by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it.)
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To: Theoria

If they try to crack down the same will happen when they try to restrict gun ownership, more will buy, and it is far easier to make your own drone, you can fly one with your phone.

You can create a flying aircraft carrier like the dirigibles of the past that launched biplanes, instead you can launch smaller drones.

In the war of tech it can only be won through sheer numbers. They can have bigger badder drones but can you kill a swarm of hornets with bullets?

Its all about fear and intimidation, we are fearless and we spit into the wind, call us crazy stupid and rednecks. But we are as many as the grasses upon the plains.


36 posted on 12/19/2012 8:19:03 PM PST by Eye of Unk (A Civil Cold War in America is here, its already been declared.)
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To: GOPJ
There's only ONE answer - outlaw ALL hobbies... A psychopath with a heavy stamp collectors book can kill... So can the gardener with his rake and hoe..

A real gardener would never bring a rake

to a pick axe fight.


37 posted on 12/19/2012 8:22:15 PM PST by Pilsner
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To: Seizethecarp
FPS Russia has already done it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU

38 posted on 12/19/2012 8:26:22 PM PST by fso301
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To: Mastador1

RC is line of sight control. Drones have autonomous GPS-guided navigation that can be programed for the drone to move to a series of “way points” that can be set for any point in three dimensions (above ground, of course!)

Several years back a hobbyist flew his “toy” drone airplane on GPS autopilot from Ireland to the US. The Islamist at the link below pulled the kit together to attack the Capitol and Pentagon!

“The jihadist drummer: Muslim musician held over plot to attack Pentagon with remote-controlled toy plane packed with explosives”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2043017/FBI-foils-Rezwan-Ferdauss-plot-attack-Pentagon-toy-plane-packed-explosives.html#ixzz2FYwHtYsP


39 posted on 12/19/2012 8:28:47 PM PST by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from "runway kill zone" mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Did you go to the link at my tag line? The head of Air Force research sent me a thank you note back in 2006 when I brought this attack vector to his attention. Just sayin’.

That was after I first went to the Secret Service and they put me in a holding cell before turning me loose with the suggestion that I “get my meds checked.” Funny how often I hear that! That was when I decided the Air Force would be more receptive to my concerns.


40 posted on 12/19/2012 8:35:57 PM PST by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from "runway kill zone" mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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To: Seizethecarp
That was after I first went to the Secret Service and they put me in a holding cell before turning me loose with the suggestion that I “get my meds checked.”

So, did you?

/johnny

41 posted on 12/19/2012 8:40:29 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: piytar

But will it have GPS autonomous navigation capable of taking it to any specific latitude, longitude and altitude within its capabilities that you command...capable of receiving updated destinations of the fly? These are called waypoints and can be hundreds or even thousands of miles away, depending on the drone specs.

For examples see:

http://diydrones.com/

http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/ardupilot-mega-home-page

http://code.google.com/p/arducopter/wiki/ArduCopter


42 posted on 12/19/2012 8:44:09 PM PST by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from "runway kill zone" mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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To: Seizethecarp

Years ago I had a plan to put one of those BB guns that dumps a hole can of BBs on a remote control plane...never wasted the money.


43 posted on 12/19/2012 8:47:55 PM PST by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Ask yourself whether an airport runway could be “mined” by a swarm of GPS controlled mini-helicopters capable of placing themselves in the known runway path of a turbofan mounted on a known airplane-type where the distance and elevation from the runway of each turbofan on the airplane type is known as it comes down the runway. Remember that the GPS coordinates of all airport runway centerlines can be easily obtained from GoogleEarth.

No onboard explosives or weapons would be needed on the mini-helicopters. The mere kinetic impact of mini-helicopter and turbofan would cause turbofan disintegration.


44 posted on 12/19/2012 9:07:34 PM PST by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from "runway kill zone" mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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To: a fool in paradise

You don’t need air clearance if you stay below 400 ft and below.


45 posted on 12/19/2012 9:20:42 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Seizethecarp
The mere kinetic impact of mini-helicopter and turbofan would cause turbofan disintegration.

I lucked out and got to be present at a couple of chicken cannon tests. One on a fighter canopy. One into a jet engine running at 100%.

That equipment is made to withstand 500MPH bird strikes.

I don't know where you are getting your information, but GPS isn't inch accurate, and there are cheaper, much cheaper ways of achieving your stated objective.

Even cooks know that.

/johnny

46 posted on 12/19/2012 9:20:54 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
You don’t need air clearance if you stay below 400 ft and below.

Depends of where you are. It's considered polite around here not to bust 100 ft AGL without warning. But I'm pretty close to a threshold.

/johnny

47 posted on 12/19/2012 9:23:04 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Seizethecarp

There’s a guy who had flown his RC glider to 498mph clocked with a radar gun. Might have hit 550mph when it wasn’t being clocked. I certainly wouldn’t want to be hit with that!

Video at link of glider doing 468mph.


48 posted on 12/19/2012 9:32:38 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Seizethecarp

So. . .someone adds a camera and gets a high vantage point. on the top of a hill, or on the roof of a skyscraper.

Heck, this sounds like something an assassin might use. . . zap someone in their office, from blocks away. . . .


49 posted on 12/19/2012 9:33:40 PM PST by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: JRandomFreeper
One into a jet engine running at 100%. That equipment is made to withstand 500MPH bird strikes.

Tell that to the passengers of US Airways Flight 1549.

Think you just overplayed your hand.

50 posted on 12/19/2012 9:38:12 PM PST by PAR35
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