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Neighbor says Lanza was on meds, links between SSRIs and violence
Digital Journal ^ | Dec 19, 2012 | Ralph Lopez

Posted on 12/19/2012 7:42:27 PM PST by neverdem

As the world continues to search for answers to the senseless violence and police say they are leaving no stone unturned, reports surface on the links between certain psychiatric medications and homicidal violence.

The Washington Post has reported that a neighbor of Adam Lanza, the suspected shooter in the Sandy Hook Elementary School killings, said that Lanza was on some form of medication. Police have issued search warrants to determine if Lanza was being treated with any drugs prescribed for mental illness.

Police have said that so far a search of the Lanza home has turned up no such medications. The shootings take place as warnings grow louder within the medical profession of dangerous and possibly violent side effects of a class of psychiatric drugs known as SSRIs, "selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors." One study from the Institute for Safe Medication Practices has identified 31 drugs that are disproportionately linked with violent behavior.

Lanza is reported to have been diagnosed with Aspergers, a form of autism. One of the drugs prescribed for autism is Prozac. Time Magazine reported in January of 2011 in an article entitled "Top Ten Legal Drugs Linked to Violence":

Prozac is 10.9 times more likely to be linked with violence in comparison with other medications.

Citing the Physicians Desk Reference, Dr. Gary G. Kohls, MD, wrote recently in Evergreene Digest, in an article entitled "Batman Shooter and His Psyche Drugs":

The Physicians' Desk Reference lists the following common adverse reactions (side effects) to SSRI antidepressants (among a host of other physical and neuropsychiatric effects). None of these adverse reactions is listed as Rare: Manic Reaction (Mania, e.g., Kleptomania, Pyromania, Dipsomania, Nymphomania,) Hypomania (e.g., poor judgment, over spending, impulsivity, etc.,) Abnormal Thinking, Personality Disorder, Hallucinations...

Other "adverse reactions" to SSRIs listed by Dr. Kohls are Agitation, Amnesia, and Psychosis.

Dr. Kohls is referring in the title of the article to James Holmes, the "Batman Shooter" of the infamous day of July 20, 2012 in Aurora, Colorado. Dr. Kohls points the reader to the website ssristories.com, where he says readers will:

...find a collection of 4,800+ damning, mostly criminal news stories about the behavioral and psychic toxicity of antidepressants. These are documented examples of psychotropic drug-induced violence that have made it into the media...or were part of (only three!) FDA hearings (1991, 2004 or 2006) where public testimony about the lethality of FDA-approved psych drugs was allowed (and essentially ignored by the FDA panel). The thousands of examples reported on that website represent just the tip of what surely is an enormous iceberg, since even the FDA estimates that as many as 99% of adverse events from any given drug is never reported to that agency.

Dr. Kohls is the author of an April 2012 article "Many Psychoactive Drugs are Strongly Associated with Violence (including aggression, suicidal violence and homicidal violence.)" In the article he summarizes the findings of the study by the Institute for Safe Medication Practices, co-authored by Harvard psychiatrist Joseph Glenmullen, MD, author of the seminal “Prozac Backlash and The Antidepressant Solution.”

Dr. Kohls goes on to give a list of 40 cases of violent crimes or suicides committed by mostly young people whose psychiatric history revealed the presence of psychiatric drugs. The list which Dr. Kohls presents includes:

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Jarred Viktor, age 15, stabbed his grandmother 61 times after 5 days on Paxil.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) - school shooting in El Cajon, California

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School - then he committed suicide.

Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.

Dr. Kohls writes in "Batman Shooter and His Psyche Drugs":

It needs to be emphasized that most of the developed world’s drug regulatory agencies, including the FDA, have not tested psychotropic drugs for safety or efficacy on human brains under the age of 18 (either short term or long term), and therefore those agencies have not approved their use for that group (with rare exceptions). It also needs to be mentioned that no combination of two or more drugs of any class (again with rare exceptions) have even been tested for safety of efficacy in the rat labs. Therefore, we physicians, if we prescribe these untested drugs, (especially in combination with other drugs) to that underage group (that is at a stage of immature brain development) we are doing so “off label”, thus exposing ourselves to medico-legal risks.

Harvard psychiatrist Joseph Glenmullen, MD, writes in “Prozac Backlash” and The Antidepressant Solution":

Doctors and scientists are just beginning to understand the connections between the serotonin and dopamine systems in the brain that are thought to be responsible for the drugs' severe effects. But with earlier classes of drugs, the brain damage that can result is slowly progressive and often silent, and only manifests itself once it is severe.

Dr. Kohls condemns the financial incentives and structure of the "Big Pharma" industry, which pays doctors what some refer to as "kickbacks" for prescribing their drugs, criticized as a clear conflict of interest. Additionally Dr. Allen Frances, professor emeritus and former chairman of the department of psychiatry at Duke University, has criticized the psychiatric profession for recklessly expanding the number and scope of psychiatric diagnoses to the point where the "net was cast too wide and captured many "patients" who might have been far better off never entering the mental health system."

In a 2010 Los Angeles Times opinion piece "It's not too late to save 'normal': Psychiatry's latest DSM goes too far in creating new mental disorders," Dr. Frances says:

As chairman of the task force that created the current Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV), which came out in 1994, I learned from painful experience how small changes in the definition of mental disorders can create huge, unintended consequences.

Our panel tried hard to be conservative and careful but inadvertently contributed to three false "epidemics" -- attention deficit disorder, autism and childhood bipolar disorder.

The op-ed by the chairman of the DSM task force was followed by a study by Medco's Neuroscience Therapeutic Resource Center which found a general increase in the use of psychiatric medications among children and adults and in the U.S. since 2000. As reported by Shirley Wang of the Wall Street Journal:

The medicating of Americans for mental illnesses continued to grow over the past decade, with one in five adults now taking at least one psychiatric drug such as antidepressants, antipsychotics and anti-anxiety medications...

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders is considered the "Bible" of mental illnesses, used by the profession as a the central reference for the diagnosis, treatment, and prescription.

-----

Related:
"Psychiatry goes insane: Every human emotion now classified as a mental disorder in new psychiatric manual DSM-5," by Mike Adams, Editor, NaturalNews.com


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: lanza
I can't wait for the toxicology report.
1 posted on 12/19/2012 7:42:36 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

“i can’t wait for the toxicology report.”

You will never see it, he was a good boy just turning his life around/S


2 posted on 12/19/2012 7:48:13 PM PST by 9422WMR (Life is not fair, just deal with it)
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To: neverdem

These meds are given to people with mental disorders who are ALREADY suicidal/homocidal in many instances.. Maybe they don’t work that well in everyone, the symptoms continue and violence results.

It’s like saying because a large percentage of people who have heart attacks were also taking blood pressure medicines, the blood pressure medicines caused the heart attack.


3 posted on 12/19/2012 7:50:34 PM PST by Jake8898
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To: neverdem

As meticulous as Lanza was about destroying as much of his past as possible it is possible he got rid of all proof of drugs in the house, destroyed his computer, then went on his killing spree.


4 posted on 12/19/2012 7:50:45 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (REOPEN THE CLOSED MENTAL INSTITUTIONS! Damn the ACLU!)
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To: neverdem

The mainstream news media has so badly jumped the shark recently (e.g. Fast and Furious, Benghazi, wildly varying “facts” on the Sandy Hook murders) that anything it says at this point simply has no credibility. If they say it, it may be true, but it has just as much likelihood of being false.


5 posted on 12/19/2012 7:53:05 PM PST by Avid Coug
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To: neverdem

More gossip. Where is a doctor’s report who prescribed the meds?


6 posted on 12/19/2012 7:54:58 PM PST by Truth2012
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To: neverdem

I’ve always wondered which came first, the crazy that caused the drugs to be prescribed, or the crazy after they were prescribed?


7 posted on 12/19/2012 7:57:06 PM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: Jake8898
These meds are given to people with mental disorders who are ALREADY suicidal/homocidal in many instances..

These meds are handed out at the drop of a hat to many people who aren't suicidal or homicidal.

8 posted on 12/19/2012 7:57:09 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: Truth2012

More gossip. Where is a doctor’s report who prescribed the meds?

Gotta keep all that hush hush to keep up the gun control momentum.


9 posted on 12/19/2012 7:59:36 PM PST by BobinIL
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To: neverdem
links between SSRIs and violence

Lanza far beyond violent. He was a premeditated mass killer.

10 posted on 12/19/2012 8:03:40 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (Carry a Gun, It's a Lighter Burden Than Regret)
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To: Jake8898

“It’s like saying because a large percentage of people who have heart attacks were also taking blood pressure medicines, the blood pressure medicines caused the heart attack.”

One difference...people were dying due too high blood pressure long before there were meds. People were NOT shooting into crowds, in near the present frequency, prior to us thinking that we could treat them, rather than simply locking them up.


11 posted on 12/19/2012 8:06:25 PM PST by BobL (Agenda 21...Agenda 21...Agenda 21...Agenda 21...Agenda 21... (whatever the hell that is))
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To: Jake8898
These meds are given to people with mental disorders who are ALREADY suicidal/homocidal in many instances.. Maybe they don’t work that well in everyone, the symptoms continue and violence results.

What do you think, that I'm some gullible fool? I'm a family practice doc with an interest in adverse drug reactions. Asperger's patients are not at increased risk for violence. Any patient taking these selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, SSRI, meds are. If you read the list of murders and suicides, one guy complained of insomnia. The idiot doc made a presumptive diagnosis of depression, even though SSRIs can cause insomnia.

Ritalin is methylphenidate. It works like amphetamine.

12 posted on 12/19/2012 8:23:37 PM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem

“Institute for Safe Medication Practices”
Sounds like one of the following groups behind this:
1.Church of Scientology
2.Trial Lawyers
or
3. Holistic Medicine Manufacturer or Sales


13 posted on 12/19/2012 8:23:50 PM PST by willk
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To: BobL

Actually, shootings are on the decline.


14 posted on 12/19/2012 8:31:13 PM PST by Jake8898
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To: neverdem

My guess is that he was on antidepressants, and quit taking them. Being a good satanist, he was probably self medicating with other goodies.


15 posted on 12/19/2012 8:34:08 PM PST by pallis
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To: Jake8898

If they “don’t work that well in everyone,” then they shouldn’t be prescribed without supervision by the pshrink of the results.

Too many of these prescriptions are handed out like tic-tacs.


16 posted on 12/19/2012 8:35:29 PM PST by NVDave
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To: neverdem

And combat vets are given these meds...and veteran and military suicides are a huge issue. Husband was wounded, brain injury, and he swears these meds made him think things that he wouldn’t have normally. He won’t take them at all now. VA docs push them heavily to him though.


17 posted on 12/19/2012 8:42:41 PM PST by rangerwife
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To: neverdem

First off, Ritalin is not an antidepressant.

Secondly, it’s no surprise that people who are prescribed antidepressants kill themselves and at times others.

As a Family doc, what question do you ask of every patient that has a complaint of depression? It should be, “are you having thoughts of harming yourself or others?” WHY? Because people with depression often have suicidal/homocidal ideations. Right?

So, you prescribe the meds and roughly 3 things can happen. One, they take it and get better. Two, they take it and it’s not effective and you try another med. Or, three, and most likely, they take it for a short time and for various reasons become noncompliant with it followed by a return of the suicidal/homocidal ideations.

Both the Left who want to ban guns and the Right who want to blame meds are both wrong. Knee jerk reactions are dangerous secondary to their unintended consequences.

There are 330 MILLION people in this country. 330 MILLION! How often does this happen? Despite how God awful it is, it’s a low frequency event that will induce a great deal of ineffective action by the government, but to little avail because it’s relatively rare. There have been 61 mass shootings in the US since 1982. How many hundreds of millions of people have lived in this country over that period of time?


18 posted on 12/19/2012 8:47:30 PM PST by Jake8898
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To: neverdem
Asperger's patients are not at increased risk for violence. Any patient taking these selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, SSRI, meds are.

I've found the ramp-up period with SSRIs to be problematic myself (not to mention my family). The mood changes themselves can be "violent". In fact, any titration causes problems. I would not dream of stopping one abruptly. Bad enough when tapering off over a ridiculously long period of time. Have even had visual disturbances. Now on SAM-e, which has so far not caused any problems during start, stop or dosage change, and has worked with equivalent effectiveness. I recommend it highly although not all patients may respond (as with any drug).

19 posted on 12/19/2012 8:52:53 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: Jake8898

“....Maybe they don’t work that well in everyone....”

As one who has worked with severely emotionally disturbed
(SED) boys (8-18 yrs old) in a residential Tx facility
for fifteen years I would say that you are spot on. Most
of the kids do quite well when they are taking their
meds, others can make you wonder just how out bad things
might be if their meds were discontinued. And, sometimes
there doesn’t seem to be much difference in their out-
ward behavior once meds have bee discontinued or changed.

Very good perception on your part.


20 posted on 12/19/2012 8:54:30 PM PST by Sivad (Nor Cal Red Turf)
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To: Jake8898

“....Maybe they don’t work that well in everyone....”

As one who has worked with severely emotionally disturbed
(SED) boys (8-18 yrs old) in a residential Tx facility
for fifteen years I would say that you are spot on. Most
of the kids do quite well when they are taking their
meds, others can make you wonder just how out bad things
might be if their meds were discontinued. And, sometimes
there doesn’t seem to be much difference in their out-
ward behavior once meds have bee discontinued or changed.

Very astute perception on your part.


21 posted on 12/19/2012 8:56:29 PM PST by Sivad (Nor Cal Red Turf)
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To: Jake8898; Sivad
First off, Ritalin is not an antidepressant.

It's a psychoactive stimulant that has paradoxical effects in "hyperactive" kids. There was at least one example of someone getting it and a SSRI, if not more.

Secondly, it’s no surprise that people who are prescribed antidepressants kill themselves and at times others.

Are you a shrink, or are you just playing one? People with major depressive disorder might think of suicide, but they often barely do anything, they can become that lethargic. People with bipolar disorder often commit violence to others and themselves when they become manic. These SSRIs are often given out like candy by primary care docs who are oblivious about their adverse effects. Some people should never be given SSRIs. They start having serotonin syndrome within days after first getting one of these SSRIs. Other get serotonin syndrome shortly after an increase in the dose of the SSRI. This isn't just bizarre ideation. There are physical signs and symptoms. To top it off there's serotonin withdrawal syndrome that's about as bad.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

As a Family doc, what question do you ask of every patient that has a complaint of depression? It should be, “are you having thoughts of harming yourself or others?” WHY? Because people with depression often have suicidal/homocidal ideations. Right?

Wrong. First they don't come in complaining of being depressed unless that diagnosis was already made. If it wasn't made already they have other complaints, e.g. insomnia, loss of appetite, etc. If I suspected major depression, I'd question him about suicidal ideation. Why are they thinking about violence to others unless they have a motive, i.e. revenge. Those really depressed don't have the energy. I'd be worried about violence to others in schizophrenics who have become psychotic or bipolars who have become manic.

Both the Left who want to ban guns and the Right who want to blame meds are both wrong. Knee jerk reactions are dangerous secondary to their unintended consequences.

There are 330 MILLION people in this country. 330 MILLION! How often does this happen?

Go to the link for SSRI Stories in the original article. It has 4800+ stories that made the news. The FDA has an adverse drug reactions reporting system. Their tallies don't reflect under reporting especially when it could reflect malpractice. If you want to ignore the adverse effects of these drugs, I can't make you become aware.

22 posted on 12/19/2012 11:16:27 PM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: Jake8898

The blood pressure medicines are supposed to REDUCE THE RISK OF HEART ATTACK — not make you think you’re now normal and will never have one...


23 posted on 12/20/2012 12:28:41 AM PST by GVnana
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To: Jake8898
I'm sorry but you're forgetting something.

Anti-depressants are not merely given to someone to because of "thoughts of suicide." They are given to people to make them feel and appear more "normal" -- to "fit in."

The rest of us live with homicidal maniacs whose intentions are masked.

24 posted on 12/20/2012 12:33:49 AM PST by GVnana
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To: neverdem

One item that I’d like to see is whether a particular med is appropriately prescribed for the condition, and whether the lowest effective dose is being prescribed.

I see that Luvox is listed on the Ten Worst list, but I have to say that when it’s prescribed as above, it’s a Godsend. It’s the only med approved for children with moderate to severe OCD and for that, with the right kid in the right amount, it works. The reason SSRIs are so effective with OCD is that the serotonin in people affected by OCD recycles in the brain cells, creating the repetitive thoughts and doubts that lead to the OCD behaviors. The SSRI frees up the serotonin that is supposed to flow between brain cells and restores the balance. So, unless Dylan Klebold had OCD, it probably made things worse for him, or at least didn’t improve whatever he had.

OTOH, antidepressants in young people like Zoloft and Prozac scare the living stuffing out of me.


25 posted on 12/20/2012 12:54:45 AM PST by bootless ("If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth."~RWR)
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To: steve86

I’m a big fan of Sam-e. I just take it to mitigate daily stress and overwork... been taking it for about six years.


26 posted on 12/20/2012 1:00:29 AM PST by bootless ("If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth."~RWR)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
As meticulous as Lanza was about destroying as much of his past as possible it is possible he got rid of all proof of drugs in the house, destroyed his computer, then went on his killing spree.
  1. the toxicology report will show what psych-meds were in his bloodstream
  2. it is easy to query the local pharmacies and find out what he was swallowing....
  3. and what shrinks prescribed them and how much
  4. ---
  5. this is all assuming some lib prosecutors and Gov't review panels (like the stooges 0 just appointed) don't purposely screw it up or get bribed by drug companies to keep their names out of it
  6. ---
  7. He was an idiot. I'll bet that hard drive(s) can be, will be somewhat recovered all depends on spending the money

27 posted on 12/20/2012 1:14:29 AM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything)
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To: neverdem

Bm


28 posted on 12/20/2012 1:22:05 AM PST by JZoback
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To: Jake8898
These meds are given to people with mental disorders who are ALREADY suicidal/homocidal in many instances.. Maybe they don’t work that well in everyone, the symptoms continue and violence results.

All of them?

What about the 'welfare disability' group--the ones who are "sad all the time" so they get medicated, the Social Serpents get more "caseload", the baby momma gets a bigger check. I am aware of some of this, and the kids are a mess--and likely a write-off, unlikely to ever recover from the chemical changes made to their systems. (For instance, if you've been on Ritalin, the USMC wasn't interested in you, and that was a ticket out of the projects if you'd managed to keep your nose clean.)

Go to the SSRI stories link in the article, there are more instances of this sort of thing.

29 posted on 12/20/2012 1:51:00 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: rangerwife

>> He won’t take them at all now.

Have things improved?


30 posted on 12/20/2012 2:05:44 AM PST by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: Jake8898
These meds are given to people with mental disorders who are ALREADY suicidal/homocidal in many instances.. Maybe they don’t work that well in everyone, the symptoms continue and violence results.

That much is true.

It’s like saying because a large percentage of people who have heart attacks were also taking blood pressure medicines, the blood pressure medicines caused the heart attack.

There is also validity in the medications themselves triggering aggressive and hallucinogenic behavior. Would you believe a Freeper who has seen it happen before? I have seen it happen.

I've give you the Clinical name. It's called Serotonin Syndrome or migration. SSRI's even under best of conditions can trigger a migration of the chemical Serotonin straight to the brain from places like the stomach.

The danger? The persons hallucinations are their reality. More danger? Many doctors never heard of it including ones prescribing the medication. There does seem to be a link between it and persons who suffer neurological damage or neurological disorders as being more prone to this. Or a patient taking lets say Zoloft gets a cold and takes an OTC cough Syrup. That is all it takes. That seems to be the most common trigger to it but the SSRI or antidepressant alone can also cause it.

For the vast majority the meds do fine. But there are notiable exceptions where it goes very badly wrong very fast.

31 posted on 12/20/2012 2:22:46 AM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: FreeReign
These meds are handed out at the drop of a hat to many people who aren't suicidal or homicidal.

All too often doctors especially Shrinks do not dig into a patients medical history deep enough to find hidden physical ailments of which antidepressants will bring on an adverse reaction. Both myself and my wife have on our medical records "No Antidepressants".

My wife took Zoloft and Trazodone for mdepression and PTSD and after a few months suddenly thought she was Tess on Touched by an Angel. She also beat herself black and blue while thrashing non stop for several days. BTW she's a quadriplegic {was such before that}. Her CT Scan showed recent bleeder in the brain from the episode. Doctors were clueless. Some discussions on FR a few years earlier had me to start looking at her antidepressants on a web search. When I showed the doctor a highly credible report on Serotonin Syndrome he said that is pure Rubbish. I said is this not your universities Pharmacology School Professors report? It was at a university hospital. He ordered a CT Scan after I showed him that.

32 posted on 12/20/2012 2:39:59 AM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Jake8898; neverdem
Jake let me give you another example of it. About 18 years ago I developed what mental health calls General Anxiety Disorder. It was compounded by PTSD. I had some major big time bad stuff hit me in a few years time including the death of my first wife..

First attack I was on the interstate. I had no idea where I was, how I got there, how long, where I was going, etc. I had no meds in my bloodstream. In about 25 minutes time I wa somewhat OK. By the next day I was weak and noises were making me spasm in my upper torso like someone hit with a bucket of ice or cattle prod. No doctor had an answer. I was placed on Xanax 2 mg twice daily. For about two six hour periods a day I was functional. I know why it was because the Xanax last 6-8 hours.

They did MRI, CT Scans, EEG, you name it. Nothing showed up. In a months time the spasms {seizures I would later learn} nearly stopped. I returned to work. I went on a service call in the nursing home I worked in as a maintenance mechanic. I got to the residents apartment in thretirement center and an elderly woman was in the hall crying. I asked what's wrong. She said Oh the noise please make it stop. I said take me to the noise. It was her AC unit running normally. I turned it off and she was fine. I told the nurse and she said yea she just got out of the hospital today.

I went back to my shop and sat down. Someone behind the door yelled down the hall and I about went through the ceiling. Then it hit again. Where am I, what am I doing etc. Only this time I was not recovering. I called my wife and she could tell I was in bad shape. She called my dad to come and pick me up and I called in a relief maintenance man. That was my last day I could work again. I retired that night age 37.

I went to my doctor next day. I was sent to a Shrink. The Shrink then says I want to put you on an antidepressant. Being a trusting person figuring doctor know best I tried it. It was Paxil. Within about two weeks I was in the ER having a catheter put in because my bladder blocked. What did it Paxil. That causes a very serious and potentially condition called Dysreflexia usually only seen in spinal cord patients. Your body goes into shock then if not stopped Death.

After a week the catheter was taken out. Guess what the doctor wanted to do next? Different antidepressant. This went on for over a year. The Xanax worked but only half the time and when I took an antidepressant I became sick at my stomach and agiated. It made my condition worse. Any noises and quite a few visual stimulation's put me in seizure.

One day I did find a book. It was called Phobia Free by Harold Levinson. It was as if a huge puzzle was suddenly being pieced together. He was addressing Anxiety Disorders and it's links to Vestibular Damage & Cerebellar related issues. In short the portion of the brain involving sensory processing. I was born one eye functional. I always had poor coordination and was thought to have ADD ADHD as a kid. I was born in 1957 BTW.

I took that info to the Shrink. Shrink says no that can't do that you need more antidepressants. Finally I had taken all I was going too. I fired the shrink. This was about the fourth one. I found another Shrink and talked to him. He said I've seen it before and antidepressants can't treat it. He took my two twice a day doses of 2mg of Xanax and said he was cutting it too .5mg or half a MG four times a day. BINGO by golly RELIEF at last.

What I have has no name because I likely have several coexisting disorders. My sensory processing system is shot. No cure known. My seizures are Sensory Induced Myoclonic Seizures which Xanax helps to control. I have had as many as a dozen in a minutes time. No doctor told me this I researched it myself like I did the sensory processing disorders using my life long medical history. As a toddler and young kid I had inappropriate responses to sound and sight. IOW wrong response. If I saw a snake I stopped up my ears. Seventh & Eighth grade was spent in a Special ED school for physical and learning disabilities where they worked on my coordination. Up till about age 10 loud noises like fireworks or thunder put me in hysteria.

I know now because of my wifes experiences I was very close to having Serotonin Syndrome. I post about this usually to help others who have this and doctors can't give them answers. I know of about a dozen persons who have have it most were Freepers.

That is why I say again doctors need to look harder for root causes. Vestibular Disorders meaning Inner Ear related the secondary symptoms are ANXIETY. Thanks to Levinsons book I found needed answers. Mental Health experts for years dismissed his research. Vestibular researchers have proving many of his findings in the 1970's to be right.

Many disorders including the so called ADD ADHD epidemic are all too often other causes such as sensory processing disorders and Ritalin makes matter worse. The last thing needed is more sensory impulses. My case is an extreme of that spectrum. I am a 18 year user of Xanax. Many doctors especially mental health doc say you can't do that it won't work. Yes it does. The Shrink retired a decade ago or more. My Internal medicine Doctor writes the script and he understands my condition after I explained it too him . Today I am over 50% deaf and walk with a cane for fall prevention. Neverdem is making some valid points. Take it from this Freeper who used to flame those warning about antidepressants.

The events where I go into the where am I what am I doing stae I've learned over time to head it off either by playing my six string or if I'm out popping a Xanax under my tounge and letting it disolve. Stuff works fast that way LOL.

33 posted on 12/20/2012 3:38:43 AM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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BTW the 2 mg doses of Xanax I was taking with the antidepressants was all that likely kept me from having full blown Serotonin Syndrome. God only knows what could have happened. Benzo’s are the protocol drug to stop it. Oddly enough my wife also was taking Xanax with her antidepressants and it likely saved her very life.


34 posted on 12/20/2012 3:45:49 AM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Truth2012

imagine that- an entire article peppered with cites based on a neighbor’s gossip

the cops have had a week to search the house to find drugs and found none

initial tox reports indicate the shooter wasnt on meds

now, did they test his system for twinkies? I hear they can cause murder


35 posted on 12/20/2012 4:08:18 AM PST by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: Jake8898

“These meds are given to people with mental disorders who are ALREADY suicidal/homocidal in many instances.”

The author did an excellent job sourcing his presumption with an extensive list of medicated youth violence. Can you provide counter-evidence? Please post a list of recent school shooters who were not on psych medicines.

Lanza’s uncle and neighbor both claim the boy was on psych drugs. That’s not something people randomly accuse a family member or neighbor of. I’ll take their word over the MSM’s anytime.


36 posted on 12/20/2012 4:33:26 AM PST by Justa
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To: neverdem

I couldn’t believe that the article stated “Adam Lanza, the suspected shooter in the Sandy Hook Elementary School killings...”

What the hell? Suspected shooter????????????

Can anyone explain such a stupid statement? Political Correctness has completely erased common sense in journalism.


37 posted on 12/20/2012 4:41:09 AM PST by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: neverdem

“Any patient taking these selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, SSRI, meds are.”

If indeed you are a practicing physician, then I have to question your professional competence in making such blanket statement.

Are these drugs overprescribed? Yes, most certainly. However, to state that SSRIs make some (implied all) homocidal is borderline malpractice. You are as bad as those physicians that overprescribe.

A great many persons have been helped by the SSRIs. However, like ALL drugs, there will be adverse effects. Prudence is always called for in their use - all medications.


38 posted on 12/20/2012 4:47:18 AM PST by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: neverdem

Of course this might turn out to be a chicken or the egg kind of argument———are dangerous people made more dangerous by use of drugs, or do these drugs inhibit possible violence by already dangerous individuals? My own personal experience with someone with mental problems who was taking drugs was that she became more violent the more drugs she took. Maybe she would have gone bonkers anyway, at any rate, the more prescribed psychiatric drugs she took, the worse she got. And I had to break up the relationship before I woke up one morning with a knife stuck in my chest.


39 posted on 12/20/2012 4:52:42 AM PST by driftless2
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To: BobL
"difference"

A very cogent point. I cannot remember these many mass shootings, or hardly any, when growing up in the fifties and sixties before the introduction of ritalin and other psychotropic drugs that are commonly prescribed today.

40 posted on 12/20/2012 4:56:07 AM PST by driftless2
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To: silverleaf
the cops have had a week to search the house to find drugs and found none

The cops have had a week to get access to the the kids medical records and release any information they find.

Yet all we get is information about a house search.

What are they hiding?

41 posted on 12/20/2012 6:35:50 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign

“What are they hiding?”

The truth.

Holder made a call......

We don’t actually know anything, including which guns were registered to the mother, whether there was a gun safe, trigger locks, etc. We don’t know jack.


42 posted on 12/20/2012 6:45:05 AM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: bootless; neverdem

Glad it works for you also. It is still hard to find many SAM-e comments on forums. Since Nature Made and others obviously sell a lot of it, I’m wondering if customers find it so trouble-free and effective that they find no reason to go on the Internet and complain about it (unlike SSRI users and their endless blogs). Maybe there are more European-language comments about SAM-e out there, but I have never taken the time to locate them.

Have you looked into any of the improved folate derivatives such as MTHF/Quatrefolic (these play into the methylation cycle as does SAM-e). There is the prescription drug Deplin and very close OTC forms like Quatrefolic. I am just starting a modest dose along with SAM-e to see how it goes. There is evidence that many people are deficient in the metabolic ability to convert regular folate into the form that will cross the blood-brain barrier; the products mentioned above are in that form already.

None of these (including SAM-e) are cheap or generally covered by insurance. Tough to afford for people who can’t work because of their afflictions but that’s just how it is. I’ve quit SAM-e probably three or four times because of costs but never experienced a discontinuation syndrome in the slightest. Still only take 400 mg where 800 to 1600 would probably be better (but even 400 works).

Back to the original thread theme, I doubt if we will ever hear about a mass murder where SAM-e is suspected of playing a role.


43 posted on 12/20/2012 8:31:05 AM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: Justa

excellent sourcing, eh?
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/man-identifying-himself-as-jonathan-lanza-uncle-of-adam-news-photo/158439067

even DU figured out that Lanza’s “uncle” likely was/is a publicity troll who inserts himself into high profile cases by pretending to be a family member

http://www.infowars.com/fanapt-hoax-hides-real-connection-between-shooters-and-ssri-drugs/

the “news” report that cited the ‘uncle’s” claim has disappeared

But you just keep on taking “their” word any day, since it matches what you already believe


44 posted on 12/20/2012 9:06:06 AM PST by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: Sola Veritas
"Asperger's patients are not at increased risk for violence. Any patient taking these selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, SSRI, meds are."

If indeed you are a practicing physician, then I have to question your professional competence in making such blanket statement.

Are these drugs overprescribed? Yes, most certainly. However, to state that SSRIs make some (implied all) homocidal is borderline malpractice. You are as bad as those physicians that overprescribe.

A great many persons have been helped by the SSRIs. However, like ALL drugs, there will be adverse effects. Prudence is always called for in their use - all medications.

You omitted the immediately preceding sentence about Asperger patients which I bolded. Why? Then you almost accuse me of malpractice because of people helped by SSRIs. Buy a clue. Comment# 22 has a link to serotonin syndrome. Most docs don't know what it is. Fewer still know about serotonin withdrawal syndrome, aka serotonin discontinuation syndrome. Both are associated with bizarre ideation including suicide and homicide, but they also have physical signs and symptoms. Your typical suicidal or homicidal patient has a normal physical examination. A doc can't make the diagnosis if the doc doesn't know it exists. Go to the link for SSRI Stories in the original article when you have the time. It has 4800+ stories that made the news.

45 posted on 12/20/2012 9:27:11 AM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: silverleaf

Whoa, there. A bit of J’accuse?

-You say Lanza’s uncle is “likely” a publicity troll yet do not refute his identity.

-You mention that MSM references to his comment have “disappeared” and you interpret this as disproving his claim?

-You do not refute the neighbor’s comment that he was on medication.

-You refer to DU comments as a credible source of opinion.

Finally, you accuse me of “keep on taking “their” word any day since it matches what you already believe”. So whose word am I taking? You’re citing DU and the MSM both of which keep changing their stories to remain focused on attacking Second Amendment liberties.

Do you not realize that the MSM receives substantial funding from pharmaceutical companies? That’s called a “motive to deceive”.

I’ll say to you, the MSM and DU it’s absurd and offensive to deflect this tradgedy to confiscating liberties and forcing conformity to Liberal ideology -including, as of today, raising taxes! This seems to be what YOU believe and there’s a name for it. It’s called demagoguery.

If there’s a troll in here it ain’t the uncle.


46 posted on 12/20/2012 10:50:43 AM PST by Justa
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To: Justa

Pal, just check out the news photo of Lanza’s so-called “Uncle Jonathan” who claimed the kid was on drugs

then go to DU and read about the Jonathan troll for yourself
There are more pictures and articles about “Jonathan’s” publicity stunts regarding the Jared Loughner and Aurora theater shooters

and this - and an unnmaed “neighbor”, are your sources for a complete “drugs make crazy people crazy” rant?

Yeah, it’s DU that dug this up but even a stopped clock is right twice a day


47 posted on 12/20/2012 1:45:50 PM PST by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: silverleaf

I think the problem will be that he wasn’t on drugs.


48 posted on 12/20/2012 1:47:50 PM PST by AppyPappy (You never see a masscre at a gun show.)
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To: neverdem

“Fewer still know about serotonin withdrawal syndrome, aka serotonin discontinuation syndrome.”

I am fully aware of it, and still say you are an extremist and I question your medical competence. However, I am NOT a physician. So, my opinion means little.

I do know that were you to be in practice in my area...I would blow the whistle on you to the other Docs and the public. Most physicians that I know would consider you an embarassment.


49 posted on 12/20/2012 5:31:49 PM PST by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: Sola Veritas
I am fully aware of it, and still say you are an extremist and I question your medical competence. However, I am NOT a physician. So, my opinion means little.

You must be special.

The serotonin syndrome From the top of P. 313:

The incidence of serotonin syndrome is not known. It is often not properly recognised because doctors are not familiar with it.

A Mix of Medicines That Can Be Lethal

In March 2005, two such specialists, Dr. Edward W. Boyer of the University of Massachusetts Medical School and Dr. Michael Shannon of Children’s Hospital Boston, noted that more than 85 percent of doctors were “unaware of the serotonin syndrome as a clinical diagnosis.”

I do know that were you to be in practice in my area...I would blow the whistle on you to the other Docs and the public. Most physicians that I know would consider you an embarassment.

If that's the price of making physicians aware of making the diagnosis, that's OK with me. Doctors are supposed to be teachers.

50 posted on 12/20/2012 6:53:54 PM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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